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arfs - 7/19/2003 5:07:23 AM   
ProfLooney



Posts: 2413
Joined: 1/18/2002
From: Moline, IL, USA
Status: offline 		Dont get me wrong mrjones I am not saying an arf trainer etc is bad its whats the next step jumping to some bigger arf or taking the time as you say you want to do and build one from a kit. its the idiots that jump from an arf trainer to an arf giant or someother plane they arent ready for yet that concerns me. I think arfs have a place and thats as park fliers and trainers but when these companies that have crappy arfs already shove out giants for the people that want to jump in over their headds it makes it bad for the hobby itself. Most Professional pilots of aircraft have to go through some maintenance training before they fly so they can keep their aircraft safe if something happens thus i feel the same here. people need to understand how the plane is built rather than just buy some big thing and not know enough to be able to inspect it ocasionally for potential problems. You stick to how you are wanting to do it and you will do fine. I am glad to see you are interested in other aspects of the hobby besides arfing.

Joe

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Great War R/C
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       Post #: 76

Why do a lot of Rc fliers have hostility towards ARF's - 7/19/2003 5:27:24 AM   
Tall Paul



Posts: 4692
Joined: 6/23/2002
From: Palmdale, CA, USA
Status: offline 		An amazing number (probably over 75%) of the international class competitors in say, "Tournament of Champions"... Fly ARFs!
Go beat up on them.

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       Post #: 77

arfs - 7/19/2003 5:39:36 AM   
ProfLooney



Posts: 2413
Joined: 1/18/2002
From: Moline, IL, USA
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by Tall Paul
An amazing number (probably over 75%) of the international class competitors in say, "Tournament of Champions"... Fly ARFs!
Go beat up on them. [/QUOTE]

And how many of them have never built a plane or only had half a seasons worth of flying? I am not talking abt people like that that are experienced if you closely read moy posts you would see that.

Joe

_____________________________

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Http://www.proflooney.net

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       Post #: 78

Why do a lot of Rc fliers have hostility towards ARF's - 7/19/2003 5:39:40 AM   
mrjones30



Posts: 157
Joined: 6/28/2003
From: Bronx, NY, USA
Status: offline 		You are right Proflooney:

Don't get me wrong the temptation is there for a bigger plane after that trainer because you want an honest answer?

After you fly the trainer for a little while you get bored with it I mean the plane is slow you can do a few stunts but thats about it and especially that crappy 4 channel radio that comes with a RTF which my mentor told me it won't last because the better planes you need a six channel. Once you master the plane, (And I will master it fully) I will go on to a lower wing plane and I'm going to start off with my mentor training me just like the trainer. My goal is to master them until I am good enough to go turbines and I don't see that happening anytime soon maybe in another five years. I will take my time, learn slowly and the rewards will pay off in the long run....

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       Post #: 79

Why do a lot of Rc fliers have hostility towards ARF's - 7/19/2003 5:52:11 AM   
mrjones30



Posts: 157
Joined: 6/28/2003
From: Bronx, NY, USA
Status: offline 		It's especially disheartning when you are flying that slow trainer and people are flying around you in 3D planes and Turbines it discourages you sometimes. I will stick to my game plan and I will be flying 3D planes and Turbines in no time.

I brought a Futuba 8UAP radio, (8 channel) I want it to last so I can use different planes on it has anybody had bad experiences with it? Any input would be appreciated.

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       Post #: 80

Why do a lot of Rc fliers have hostility towards ARF's - 7/19/2003 6:22:57 AM   
Buz^


 

Posts: 491
Joined: 2/27/2002
From: vancouver , WA, USA
Status: offline 		GORDON, What do you think would have happened when building your first kit, if you had RCU and the Internet to draw information off of. It's not the same world we lived in when we were young, I'm 49, and although your story is a good one, to compare then to now just isn't relevant. I am a builder, and think a fairly good one but am indifferent on the subject of ARF's. I have read threads where there were complaint's about the quality of the building process with some ARF's. High stress area's not properly glued or reinforced resulting in a crash and loss of the plane. I feel bad for them and would only suggest that next time, they have an experienced pilot/builder preflight their next plane Not mock them for their choice in airplanes.

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       Post #: 81

Why do a lot of Rc fliers have hostility towards ARF's - 7/19/2003 6:50:32 AM   
ajcoholic



Posts: 4044
Joined: 6/22/2002
From: Kirkland Lake, ON, CANADA
Status: offline 		I will say it again like I have said before...

I have been building planes for 25 of my 32 years on this earth. I have built many kits, done much plans-built scratch building and have quite a few of my own design scratch built planes too. I have bought RTF planes from friends and have also bought 5 ARF's in the past 2 years with good results.

I will continue to build from plans, kits, design my own and buy ARF's too. I think they are all serving a purpose for me (enjoyment of building in one sense, ease of getting a plane airborn in another) and I cannot see why someone would find a negative on either side.

As for the safety aspect, todays arfs, the ones I have bought, seen fly and flew myself, are very well built in my opinion and so many thousands are flying perfectly fine, without mods. If some clown is going to buy an arf way above his skill level, it is no different than buying a used airplane OR building a hot rod warbird as a trainer and smashing it on the first flight into the pitts... it has happened back in the 50's when RC was in its infancy, and will continue to happen..

We can all get along guys, we really can!

Andrew Coholic


_____________________________

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Engine reviewer for FLY RC Magazine - andrewc@flyrc.com

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       Post #: 82

Why do a lot of Rc fliers have hostility towards ARF's - 7/19/2003 8:52:00 AM   
david a



Posts: 328
Joined: 11/19/2002
From: montgomery, alabama
Status: offline 		If I want to build a couple of ARF's or three, now brother that's my headache don't you worry 'bout me;
just mind your own business, mind your own business;
cause if you mind your own business then you sure won't be minding mine.

(in reply to richb1492)
       Post #: 83

Why do a lot of Rc fliers have hostility towards ARF's - 7/19/2003 9:03:55 AM   
glowplug



Posts: 1862
Joined: 2/2/2002
From: Weirton, WV, USA
Status: offline 		ajcoholic, excellent point that ProfLooney (very fitting name btw) obviously can't see.........he doesn't see that his problem isn't ARF's, it's guys advancing to challenging airplanes too quickly......hey Looney....when you saw this kid crash his giant scale birds one after another, did anybody offer to help him??? Why did you let him crash multiple planes?? Maybe you wanted to see him crash?
Looney you talk out of both sides of your mouth.....you say that ARF guys don't know the difference between a spar and a wing saddle and shouldn't be assembling ARFs......but yet, it's OK for a newbie that doesn't know the difference between a wing saddle and a spar to build a plane from a kit........yes...THAT'S very reassuring!!
It's true....many ARF's need to be modified......BUT.....probably 98% of ARF trainers out there will fly just fine for training purposes straight out of the box with no mods......and just like building from a kit, you start to learn little tricks to make your ARFs better and stronger as you advance.

(in reply to richb1492)
       Post #: 84

My Lt-40 - 7/19/2003 10:51:47 AM   
richb1492



Posts: 198
Joined: 3/30/2002
From: Beaumont, TX, USA
Status: offline 		I started with an ARF It was the LT-40 and Yes it Needed Mods and The guys at the field showed and helped me to do it..
A ARF is a great way for a new guy to learn on and as ya learn more about flying you can make mods. It seems like our hobby is in Flux in that a lot of new people will be flying arfs.
It seems to me if there are more ARF's out there somebody mist be buying them. If there was no market for them there would not be more of them made day by day.

(in reply to richb1492)
       Post #: 85

. - 7/19/2003 5:41:43 PM   
tinman



Posts: 1175
Joined: 1/23/2002
From: columbia, TN, USA
Status: offline 		lots of opinions here for sure.....mine is that an arf is a very good way for a new flier to learn how to fly and assemble a plane. after he flies it a while he will have to start doing repairs like learning how to cover, fixing broken balsa etc. when he does this he gets to see how planes are built and can progress from there. if a guy comes into this hobby knowing nothing about planes, does anyone really think he is completely comfortable stick building and then flying a plane? who says this first stick built would be safer? ya can't say that.....arfs are here to stay and allow lots of GOOD people to enjoy our HOBBY and contribute to our fields, ama and events. any1 wanna go flyin?

(in reply to richb1492)
       Post #: 86

Why do a lot of Rc fliers have hostility towards ARF's - 7/19/2003 8:24:22 PM   
mrjones30



Posts: 157
Joined: 6/28/2003
From: Bronx, NY, USA
Status: offline 		I can't agree more:

I don't know how to build a plane but I am not going to start out building one. I will probably fly an ARF first and then build one after because I was convinced on this site that there's a personal satisfaction in building your plane before flying it. I like to build things but I have never built a plane before so I can expect to need help along the way. I'm going to try it just to see what happens...

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       Post #: 87

Arf's can help our hobby grow - 7/20/2003 8:00:12 AM   
richb1492



Posts: 198
Joined: 3/30/2002
From: Beaumont, TX, USA
Status: offline 		Arf's by being easy too get into the air might go a long way toward getting new flyer's into the air. Lots of people i think just doint have the building skills too start out scratch building a plane. But they can do enough to build an ARF or even do mods on an ARF.
Also if arfs bring new people into the hobby that can be a huge plus. A local club here has all most stopped because the member are well up in age.

(in reply to richb1492)
       Post #: 88

Why do a lot of Rc fliers have hostility towards ARF's - 7/20/2003 8:52:09 AM   
Borzak



Posts: 360
Joined: 6/19/2003
From: LA,TX,MS,AL
Status: offline 		Things ARE changing I know that. I first got into R/C in my teens about 20 years ago. Back then the phrase ARF mentioned at a field got lots of nasty looks. No one recommended a begineer get an ARF. 20 years ago ARF's were for people to have a "potential crasher/junker" type airplane.

When you asked an instructor they told you to build a kadet/eagle or something like that. All the magazines had reviews of actual kits back then as well.

Well when I decided to get back into R/C planes about 2 months ago I was SHOCKED when I went out to the field and found that probably 80% or more that day were flying ARF's and the instructors never even mentioned building your own plane - they had a standard list of ARF's that they had experience with for trainers like the avistar (very popular at my field), kadets and the tower hobbies trainer. No trainer even mentioned building a plane till I brought it up and it was quickly dismissed.

Things have changed and will continue to change.

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       Post #: 89

Why do a lot of Rc fliers have hostility towards ARF's - 7/20/2003 9:16:58 AM   
TallDude.


 

Posts: 97
Joined: 3/30/2002
From: Sterling, VA, USA
Status: offline 		The build quality of ARFs 20 years ago was usually nowhere near as good as most ARFs are today, in my opinion


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       Post #: 90

Why do a lot of Rc fliers have hostility towards ARF's - 7/20/2003 9:27:42 AM   
mrjones30



Posts: 157
Joined: 6/28/2003
From: Bronx, NY, USA
Status: offline 		Like I mentioned before I think that the hobby wants to get in a wider rage of hobbists which you cannot blame them because the only way a hobby stays strong is if new members come in, (Like myself) the hobby will continue to grow, companies make money and develop new products, other companies come into the Hobby and compete and then we will see some real