Why do a lot of Rc fliers have hostility towards ARF's

Why do a lot of Rc fliers have hostility towards ARF's
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Why do a lot of Rc fliers have hostility towards ARF's - 7/21/2003 11:46:23 PM

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I think we are zeroing in on one only part of the "mass produced" industry. After all aren't ARF's really a mass produced item, just like cars, household appliances, electronic equipment, and aren't items in those categories being recalled all the time for improper design, construction or other safety defects. With the large number of units being produced some shoddy glue joints are bound to occur.
Overall I believe the quality of ARF's being produced today are by large a great improvement from previous years.
As I stated previously I like to build but I fly ARF's also and I believe most of ARF's are better built then a lot of first time kits I've seen come to field.
P.S. I had a rudder fall off once when I didn't glue the hinges right and it was a kit.

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Why do a lot of Rc fliers have hostility towards ARF's - 7/21/2003 11:58:48 PM

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I too have seen posts about the upper wing mount on the GP Pitts and it appears to be design or manufacturing flaw. It's a shame that this problem made it's way into production. Hopefully since it is known problem newer batches will correct it. But for this one problem there are hundreds of other ARFs that have none.

But I think the main point of this thread is experience. No matter if it's a kit or ARF a veteran modeler will have greater success building or assembling an airworthy plane. Most kits are built by the experienced and hence less failures. Most newbies (I hate that term) buy ARFs. If all ARFs disappeared and the newbie was then forced to build a kit we would then see more kit failures. In the end the experienced builder usually knows what to look for on an AFR to verify construction quality and they know the proper techniques to build a quality kit.

< Message edited by rcflier_gi -- Jul 21 2003 7:20PM >

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Why do a lot of Rc fliers have hostility towards ARF's - 7/22/2003 2:47:06 AM

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"But I think the main point of this thread is experience. No matter if it's a kit or ARF a veteran modeler will have greater success building or assembling an airworthy plane. Most kits are built by the experienced and hence less failures."

I agree with rcflier totally. I'm a newbie, (I also dislike that term) and I don't have any experience building planes as of yet. Once I get a few months under my belt I will start building my own planes now when I do that I can't say that it's going to come out perfect because it might not. So I'm going to say in my opinion that my chances are BETTER as a newbie to fly an ARF/RTF plane which is a better chance that the plane will be safe compared to a Kit which has a greater chance of error....

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Why do a lot of Rc fliers have hostility towards ARF's - 7/22/2003 4:02:37 AM

Tmoth4

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Whether It's an ARF, kit, or scratchbuilt, they all need to be checked over carefully the first few flights and before each flying session to see if anything is working loose or cracking. Vibration levels and flight loads are higher on big gassers.

Jim

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Why do a lot of Rc fliers have hostility towards ARF's - 7/23/2003 11:54:06 PM

Miloh

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Ok I know I will get slammed for this but I must say it, I've been out of the hobby for years and got back in a short while ago.
I had no intentions of getting back in but I was in the LHS and got to looking at the planes hanging in the RC room, Thought about all the flying I used to do and how much fun it was and I would like to do it again but NAH.... to much trouble.... Kit, glue, covering, irons, heat gun, building table, room to build, time to build. So I left. thinking about it later I got on the net and got to looking around....ARFs were everywhere Hummm.... This would solve a lot of my apprehension and I could fly this weekend. So in I went and got me an ARF!! a Used ARF at that. I now have two ARF's flying and a KIT on the building board.
This is also in my opinion why we have a lot of new people getting to the hobby that would not otherwise do it.
ARF's are not the problem with stupidity, people are, and I don't see anyone ruining the hobby as someone stated before.
The hobby is not being ruined but expanded and this is good for all. If you see a "newbie" Offer help don't stomp on them. If they still don't obey the rules then don't let them fly!!!!!!!
Now the part that I will get slammed for. In my opinion and my opinion only some of the problem you builders have with ARF'S as I see it is people don't admire your building as much as you do and don't run up and praise your skills. Don't remember witch post it was but somewhere in all this dribble something said made me see it this way. To argue over opinion is pointless, And in all the deliberation I still have seen on factual evidence that either side is using anything other than opinion.

In My Humble Opinion.
Miloh.

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I think its change that scares some.. - 7/24/2003 1:22:58 AM

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I think the ARF issuer is really about change in the hobby. Arf's are just a part of the changes the hobby is making. I agree that some Arfs need mods too fly well but the other at the club can tell the person in the right way too make things better. Help given in the right way will usually be accepted.

My 1st L-40 arf had too be fixed by my instructor. the push rods were binding.. A common issuer with some of them
Lets not fear change

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Why do a lot of Rc fliers have hostility towards ARF's - 7/24/2003 5:58:02 AM

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Think SIG has a cross eyed Chinaman installing the push rod housings, helped assemble 3 now & 3 out of the 6 housings we had to cut & use steel push rods . No call for that! MAX H.

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Why do a lot of Rc fliers have hostility towards ARF's - 7/24/2003 6:01:44 PM

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Eric, you forgot to mention the thread I started.

[URL=http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/tm.asp?m=244406]http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/tm.asp?m=244406[/URL]

Blackiee

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Why do a lot of Rc fliers have hostility towards ARF's - 7/24/2003 6:10:39 PM

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I'm the proud owner of 4 arf's... a Cap 232, Extra 300xs, Whiplash, and a GSP Staudacher.. and Love them all.. (except for my cap's snapping).... The only thing I have against them is that they all look the same.. same color schemes get boring.. I can go to an airshow and see 3 or 4 other Matt Chapman cap's, 2 or more Sig Extra 300's, etc... Not that original.. but I do like the ease of building one... I'm saving my kits to build over the winter, and Arf's during the summer. That's my plan anyway

(got some neat kits to build.. can't wait!!! Geebee R2 from Adrian Page, vintage Craft Air Scout 15, vintage Dynaflite Bushwacker, Goldberg Ultimate, and finally a DF Bob Parkinson Avro Arrow)

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Why do a lot of Rc fliers have hostility towards ARF's - 7/24/2003 7:07:47 PM

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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Blackie
Eric, you forgot to mention the thread I started.

[/QUOTE]

Let's not resurrect that monster!!!

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Why do a lot of Rc fliers have hostility towards ARF's - 7/24/2003 7:26:21 PM

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I don't fly with other people very much, the nearest field is too far to go. I don't see very many ARFs, or scratch builts, or kits for that matter.

I started my R/C journey with a Kyosho ARF electric plane (14 years ago), it was heavy, of poor quality and barely flew; I hated it. I liked building then, but didn't want to rebuild to learn to fly. I bought a goldberg electra and built it. I taught myself to fly with it. I'm teaching the neighbor boy to fly with an ARF trainer.
(it's ok, but a hard landing tore out the lite-ply firewall :-(. I replaced it with aircraft ply as it should have been)

I love the feeling of accomplishment I get when I finish a scratch built or kit, and fail to understand how anyone can take pride in something they merely purchased. I know that'll anger some.
It's that way everywhere, if you buy a '67 Camaro that's been parked in a pasture for 10 years and rebuild it yourself, the pain you feel when you smash your car into a tree can't compare to someone who has merely bought the car already refurbed. The check you get from you insurance agent will be like a slap in the face when compared to the time you spent on it.
However, if you're not a sticks and dust guy, you probably don't take much pride in your plane anyway (no slam intended, just trying to say that if you didn't build it, how could you say to yourself "Man, that wing fillet sure came out smooth, you can't even tell where it blends to the fuse"

. Maybe you place your value on your flying ability? There's no sin in that.
I fly SPADs also. Who could be proud of those ugly-as-sin things anyway? When I bounce it off the ground and dog-ear a corner of the 'wing', I don't shed a tear!

To cut it short, there are builders and there are flyers. Some builders don't fly, some fliers don't build. Some of us do both.
I have a right to be proud of my airframe, but I'll fly with you and your ARF. I might tease you about the way it looks like others, but all in the hope that you'll make your own.......

Joe Myers

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Why do a lot of Rc fliers have hostility towards ARF's - 7/24/2003 7:48:44 PM

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[QUOTE]Originally posted by joetsunami
I love the feeling of accomplishment I get when I finish a scratch built or kit, and fail to understand how anyone can take pride in something they merely purchased. [/QUOTE]

Maybe they take pride in the way they fly the aircraft, rather than in the aircraft itself, or the car they brought it to the field in, or ...

Maybe the people who design their own aircraft fail to see how anyone can take pride in something they merely assembled from a kit that someone else designed and manufactured...

Maybe the people who taught themselves to fly fail to see how anyone can take pride in learning by a method in which they only do what they are told to do by an instructor, rather than discovering and overcoming each obstacle on their own...

We aren't all clones, so we don't all get our enjoyment from the same aspect of the hobby. That's what makes it so interesting IMO.

Gordon

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Why do a lot of Rc fliers have hostility towards ARF's - 7/24/2003 8:20:31 PM

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Geez oh pete!
I thought I wrote a real moderate post. I guess that just goes to show that this is a real sensitive issue for some.
Maybe they take pride in the way they fly the aircraft, rather than in the aircraft itself, or the car they brought it to the field in, or ...
-----Uh, I said that!
Maybe the people who design their own aircraft fail to see how anyone can take pride in something they merely assembled from a kit that someone else designed and manufactured...
-----I bet they do! I'm not upset at them if they think that though.
Maybe the people who taught themselves to fly fail to see how anyone can take pride in learning by a method in which they only do what they are told to do by an instructor, rather than discovering and overcoming each obstacle on their own...
----Only if they're foolish!

Joe Myers

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Why do a lot of Rc fliers have hostility towards ARF's - 7/24/2003 8:39:14 PM

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I think a lot of you guys fail to see that a lot of people take pride in the fact they assembled their ARF and it came out looking cherry. You scoff but for some that is a big accomplishment, one in which they take great pride in. ARF's do take time and work to finish, some moreso than others.

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Why do a lot of Rc fliers have hostility towards ARF's - 7/24/2003 8:49:51 PM

Miloh

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Hay Joe.... Sounds like a song title LOL

I have seen those guys trying to teach themselves how to fly...... I don't understand the mentality's of it. And the danger, and the cost??? Oh well.
I also don't understand the screaming and hollering on this subject. Everyone has the right to opinion and the right to state it, but damit man the intolerance of each others opinions and desires makes us sound like elephants and donkeys.
This sport, hobby, is growing now as fast as I can remember due to the advent of ARF's and the INTERNET and we as experienced flyer's and builders should be ashamed of all the in fighting that we show the new people.
I personally want people to see this as good thing not a place to get slammed cause of differences in opinion.

Geewizz, This hobby is so much fun no matter how it is done, we should encourage interested people to try it not scare them away.

Once again IMHO.
Miloh.

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Why do a lot of Rc fliers have hostility towards ARF's - 7/24/2003 8:58:06 PM