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RE: *** Ultra Sport Brotherhood *** - 8/26/2012 1:05 AM   
rglgatortail


 

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Status: offline 		Thanks Thom I appreciate your info. Yeah go back to the last post I made and look for the last number issued and put the next number in your signature and I will then update the list and dont forget to message me that you got that number so I dont miss it like I have done before.

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Robert L. AMA #595312 ____ Club Saito #724
Ultra Sport Brotherhood #79

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RE: *** Ultra Sport Brotherhood *** - 8/26/2012 1:11 AM   
KaP2011


 

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RE: *** Ultra Sport Brotherhood *** - 8/26/2012 2:48 AM   
thom25


 

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Status: offline 		Robert,
Thanks I am in.
Ultra Sport Brotherhood #138

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RE: *** Ultra Sport Brotherhood *** - 8/26/2012 4:19 AM   
rglgatortail


 

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RE: *** Ultra Sport Brotherhood *** - 9/20/2012 2:52 AM   
Yak13


 

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Status: offline 		I think I can be a member now. I got a US40 in a trade. Liked is so much I got an old US1000.
The 40 has an OS 40 w pipe & retracts. It is zooming at almost 100mph!
The 1000 I fitted with a Magnum 180 four stroke. Still needs some tuning as it flies much slower than the little 40.

COUNT ME IN

Ed 

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RE: *** Ultra Sport Brotherhood *** - 9/20/2012 4:48 PM   
jrf


 

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Status: offline 		Yak13:

Be aware that large airplanes appear to be flying slower than they actually are. With a clean airplane like the US1000, your airspeed in level flight will be just a couple of mph faster than static rpm times prop pitch. (Divided by 1000) So if your 180 will turn a 10 pitch prop at 9000 rpm on the ground, your US1000 will be doing a bit over 90 in the air.

But speed is not everything. The higher pitch prop you use, the longer your takeoff runs will be and the weaker your vertical pull. I have found that a top speed of 75 - 80 mph is a compromise that gives you good speed and still allows BIG loops and high stall turns.

Jim

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RE: *** Ultra Sport Brotherhood *** - 9/20/2012 6:05 PM   
Zor



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quote:

ORIGINAL: jrf

Yak13:

Be aware that large airplanes appear to be flying slower than they actually are. With a clean airplane like the US1000, your airspeed in level flight will be just a couple of mph faster than static rpm times prop pitch. (Divided by 1000) So if your 180 will turn a 10 pitch prop at 9000 rpm on the ground, your US1000 will be doing a bit over 90 in the air.

But speed is not everything. The higher pitch prop you use, the longer your takeoff runs will be and the weaker your vertical pull. I have found that a top speed of 75 - 80 mph is a compromise that gives you good speed and still allows BIG loops and high stall turns.

Jim


Hi Jim,

Let me see what I can reason out of your statement.
Let us assume that "doing a bit over 90 in the air" is 92 mph.

Let us convert 92 mph to inches _ _ _ we have 92 x 5280 (feet per mile) x 12 (inches per foot) = 5,829,120  inches per hour.

That means 5,829,120 dvide by 60 minutes in an hour gives us 97,152 inches per minute.

At 9,000 rpm each rpm would correspond to a forward movement of 10.79 inches.

The way I see that is the propeller is pulling the model at 92 mph with a negative angle of attack of the prop blades.

Now I can believe in miracles    or I do not know simple maths. 

Zor


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RE: *** Ultra Sport Brotherhood *** - 9/20/2012 6:46 PM   
jrf


 

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Status: offline 		Zor:

I am neither a scientist nor a mathematician, but I can assure you that "rule of thumb" is very close to reality. The answers it provides match several published nemonics and have been verified by myself and others many times by radar gun.

Perhaps the math is not as simple as you assume. You might want to consider the fact that the prop will unload in the air.

Jim

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RE: *** Ultra Sport Brotherhood *** - 9/20/2012 8:05 PM   
landeck


 

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Status: offline 		Zor, remember that the prop unwinds in the air, i.e. RPM increases. The increase in RPM can be anywhere from 500 to 1,500 or more RPM. The resulting RPM will be more than what a straight pitch/RPM needed for 92 MPH because of inefficiencies in the prop.

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RE: *** Ultra Sport Brotherhood *** - 9/20/2012 8:41 PM   
Zor



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quote:

ORIGINAL: jrf

Zor:

I am neither a scientist nor a mathematician, but I can assure you that "rule of thumb" is very close to reality. The answers it provides match several published nemonics and have been verified by myself and others many times by radar gun.

Perhaps the math is not as simple as you assume. You might want to consider the fact that the prop will unload in the air.

Jim


Hi Jim,

Yes I know that a prop unloads in the air but I do not know by how many rpm and even that will vary with the speed.

You no doubt noticed I used 92 because you had written "a couple of mph faster". 

I made the calculations just for the fun of figuring things out   .

Props diameters and pitch are selected to load the engine to its constant rated horsepower and result in its best (highest) thrust to torque ratio. That determines the angle of attack for a fixed pitch prop.

In different words _ _ _ With a specific engine capable of delivering a maximum constant horsepower installed on a specific airplane the resulting cruising speed should result with an angle of attack of the prop blades that has the best thrust and a minimum torque requirement.

It is sometime referred to as the prop having best efficiency.

I am just trying to explain my understanding.

I can see things better in my mind than I can convert it into written text.

Zor


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RE: *** Ultra Sport Brotherhood *** - 9/20/2012 8:53 PM   
Zor



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quote:

ORIGINAL: landeck

Zor, remember that the prop unwinds in the air, i.e. RPM increases. The increase in RPM can be anywhere from 500 to 1,500 or more RPM. The resulting RPM will be more than what a straight pitch/RPM needed for 92 MPH because of inefficiencies in the prop.


Yes landeck,

It would be interesting to have some postings from fellows with telemetry and an rpm feedback.

Zor




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RE: *** Ultra Sport Brotherhood *** - 9/20/2012 9:05 PM   
landeck


 

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Status: offline 		Zor, I agree.

Bruce

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RE: *** Ultra Sport Brotherhood *** - 9/23/2012 10:02 AM   
Gordie M


 

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From: Wellington, NEW ZEALAND
Status: offline 		Hey Guys,

Back into the brotherhood with my new US60  / OS75AX all finished as per pics below. Sorry about the photo quality, I just used my phone camera

Cheers

Gordie


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RE: *** Ultra Sport Brotherhood *** - 9/23/2012 11:12 AM   
box car



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From: China, MI, USA
Status: offline 		Very nice, thats a real good looking plane, good job.


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RE: *** Ultra Sport Brotherhood *** - 9/23/2012 1:40 PM   
landeck


 

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Status: offline 		Very good looking plane. What prop are you using with the OS 75 AX?

Bruce

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RE: *** Ultra Sport Brotherhood *** - 9/23/2012 5:16 PM   
KaP2011


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Gordie M

Hey Guys,

Back into the brotherhood with my new US60  / OS75AX all finished as per pics below. Sorry about the photo quality, I just used my phone camera

Cheers

Gordie



What is your AUW and how does it fly with the .75? It looks really good.

Mine is very near completion but I keep setting it aside because I can't decide on an engine. This week I'm leaning toward a Saito 1.00. I have went from an OS .75AX to an OS .95AX to an OS FS95 to a Super Tigre G90. I just can't decide. I want to have very good verticle. I would like to have a 1 to 1 power ratio, or maybe a little more. I traded the Super Tigre off so it's out of the picture. I already have the Saito 1.00, but I'm going to buy a new engine before the end of Sept. (even if I don't need it) so I have to decide soon.

What are the suggestions from the gallery?




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RE: *** Ultra Sport Brotherhood *** - 9/23/2012 5:56 PM   
Twin_Flyer



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Status: offline 		looks amazing Gordie!

I think Im pretty good with monocoat, but always have a problem comming up with a scheme.

Yours is amazing!

Bill S.

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RE: *** Ultra Sport Brotherhood *** - 9/23/2012 8:27 PM   
hrrcflyer


 

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ORIGINAL: Twin_Flyer

looks amazing Gordie!

Bill S.


Hello Gordie,

I have to agree with Twin Flier. That is one of the best looking Ultrasport's I've seen........

David

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RE: *** Ultra Sport Brotherhood *** - 9/23/2012 8:59 PM   
VCScott



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Status: offline 		Nice!!!


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RE: *** Ultra Sport Brotherhood *** - 9/24/2012 1:59 AM   
thom25


 

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Status: offline 		Hi KaP2011 ,
I have an US60.(See post #1819 and 1822) I am running an OS .75AX with an APC 14X8 prop, Omega 15%. Lots of speed and vertical. Try it you will like it.
Thom

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RE: *** Ultra Sport Brotherhood *** - 9/24/2012 10:36 AM   
Gordie M


 

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From: Wellington, NEW ZEALAND
Status: offline 		Thanks for the nice comments guys!

AUW is around 8lbs. Based on my previous US with same engine I anticipated nose heavy, so moved the servos back a bit during the build, bought a macs muffler and planned a wood prop. Wouldn't you know it, tail heavy in that configuration!!! So back to stock muffler and APC prop - it balanced perfectly. I know I could strip 5ozs out by moving the battery forward and going back to macs + wood prop. It's also over-servoed with high torque digi's at 2.2oz each, so there is 2+ozs weight saving there if you use more appropreiate sized servos.

Mods are fully sheeted wings + twin aileron servos mounted under hatches in each wing.

Prop: 13x6 or 13x7. I tried the 14 inch props on the previous US / 75AX. Personally I think thats too much prop for the 75AX and causes a vibration in the mid range.. The US is not overly fast in level flight with a 13x6 but the thick wing doesn't help straight line speed anyway. Vertical is out of sight up on the other hand....

Covering is Ultracote: Orange (its a bit see-thru) + Pearl White (really hard to use - almost as bad as Silver) + Carbon fibre black + Silver and Pearl Blue stripes.

Will take some more pics using a good camera the carbon fibre black looks really cool close up

Cheers,

Gordie

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RE: *** Ultra Sport Brotherhood *** - 9/24/2012 10:48 AM   
KaP2011


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Gordie M

Thanks for the nice comments guys!

AUW is around 8lbs. Based on my previous US with same engine I anticipated nose heavy, so moved the servos back a bit during the build, bought a macs muffler and planned a wood prop. Wouldn't you know it, tail heavy in that configuration!!! So back to stock muffler and APC prop - it balanced perfectly. I know I could strip 5ozs out by moving the battery forward and going back to macs + wood prop. It's also over-servoed with high torque digi's at 2.2oz each, so there is 2+ozs weight saving there if you use more appropreiate sized servos.

Mods are fully sheeted wings + twin aileron servos mounted under hatches in each wing.

Prop: 13x6 or 13x7. I tried the 14 inch props on the previous US / 75AX. Personally I think thats too much prop for the 75AX and causes a vibration in the mid range.. The US is not overly fast in level flight with a 13x6 but the thick wing doesn't help straight line speed anyway. Vertical is out of sight up on the other hand....

Covering is Ultracote: Orange (its a bit see-thru) + Pearl White (really hard to use - almost as bad as Silver) + Carbon fibre black + Silver and Pearl Blue stripes.

Will take some more pics using a good camera the carbon fibre black looks really cool close up

Cheers,

Gordie


Thanks for the info Gordie. I expect mine will come in close to that weight as well as I've done all the Minnflyer mods. plus adding eflite retracts. I've got an Extra 300 that weights 7.5# with a Tower .75 on it and I'm not too impressed with the Tower engine just yet. I believe it is just getting to the fully broken in stage so it may get better.

If anyone could educate me on how to figure the power to weight ratio I would be greatfull.


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RE: *** Ultra Sport Brotherhood *** - 9/24/2012 2:09 PM   
Zor



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ORIGINAL: KaP2011
>
>
>
>
If anyone could educate me on how to figure the power to weight ratio I would be greatfull.


Divide the weight into the power.

Examples _ _ _

Power 1 HP
Weight 1 lb
Ratio is 1 HP per lb.

Power 3 HP
Weight 8 lbs
Ratio 3 divide by 8 is 0.375 which is 3/8 of a horse power per pound of weight.

Zor


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RE: *** Ultra Sport Brotherhood *** - 9/24/2012 4:03 PM   
KaP2011


 

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Status: offline 		Thanks for that answer Zor.

I understand the answer so I must not understand the question. What hp range do I need to be in to get a 1 to 1 thrust to weight ratio? I realize the prop will have a great deal to do with the ratio but I'm not sure how to get to the answer I'm looking for. I am only high school educated and that was 35 years ago. I'm not sure we went over that in class, if we did I must have been asleep that day.
I know that if I took an engine and rigged it up on a test stand with a scale and got a result of 8lb of thrust, I would have a 1 to 1 thrust to weight ratio on an 8lb airplane. I'm just not sure how to do the math to come to the answer.


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RE: *** Ultra Sport Brotherhood *** - 9/24/2012 5:09 PM   
Zor



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quote:

ORIGINAL: KaP2011

Thanks for that answer Zor.

I understand the answer so I must not understand the question. What hp range do I need to be in to get a 1 to 1 thrust to weight ratio? I realize the prop will have a great deal to do with the ratio but I'm not sure how to get to the answer I'm looking for. I am only high school educated and that was 35 years ago. I'm not sure we went over that in class, if we did I must have been asleep that day.
I know that if I took an engine and rigged it up on a test stand with a scale and got a result of 8lb of thrust, I would have a 1 to 1 thrust to weight ratio on an 8lb airplane. I'm just not sure how to do the math to come to the answer.


KaP2011,

I do not know how much I can help you with your inquisition.

I understand that you would wish to calculate the horse power needed to produce a specific thrust from the engine-prop combination.

As you indicated the no-math method is to make a static test with a good scale rigged up to measure the thrust. I think that most fliers just go by the general reported usage of others.

To try to figure this by mathematics is not simple nor easy.
Horse power is the ability to do work.
One horse power can lift 550 lbs a distance of one foot in one second.

Some of the difficulties to use calculations for us modelers are _ _ _ 
1- We do not know precisely and sometime not at all what is the horse power rating of an engine.
2- The engine is turning a propeller to convert the HP into thrust.
3- The thrust will depend on the propeller size (diameter), on the prop pitch (which varies along the radius of the blades), on the prop airfoil (which can also vary along the blades).
4- We do not have manufacurers figures telling us the statcic thrust of their prop versus rpm; we have to do our own tests as mentioned above.
5- We do not know any specific prop efficiency.

It all seem to boil down to using a recommended engine range (size) for a model and play around with different props.

I think the best you can do is browse around until you develop a feeling for types of models, their weight, the engine installed, the prop used and is it a 3D capable model and to what extend it is (how much thrust it has versus weight).

Watch for other postings coming up by ohers. You may get this general infomation of model, weight, engine and prop and vertical flight performance.

Good luck,

Zor


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