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Kit cutters choice? - 4/6/2002 4:30:28 AM   
Nikita


 

Posts: 68
Joined: 1/22/2002
From: Cambridge, MA, USA
Status: offline 		I am going to build a Mig-3 from Roamin Research plans. PrecisionCutKits will cut one for $375 and it would take them 3 months. All-American Kit Cutters would do it for $300 and in two weeks. Is there any reason I shouldn't buy from All-American? Is the low price and quick turn-around a consequence of low quality (and low demand), or are they just more efficient?
Please advise me on this issue.
Thanks. Nikita.
       Post #: 1

kits - 4/6/2002 2:33:44 PM   
ProfLooney



Posts: 2413
Joined: 1/18/2002
From: Moline, IL, USA
Status: offline 		Nikita are you getting a short kit or full kit? My friend Jesse at lazerworks cuts short kits and turn around on something like that would prob be 2 wks and cost 1/2 the price. He cut my B-25 kit (118" ws Ziroli) for 125 and did a good job. I do the vectorizing for him to get it ready for the Laser as I have access to the large scanner to have the plans scanned. The company I use charges 15$ a sheet to scan the plans then burns them on CD so when you have to have them scanned to digital format theres that cost but then you get the plans back on cd also which is a good investment as you will always have them then you print out a set when you goto build and not have to worry about ruining them.

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Kit cutters choice? - 4/6/2002 8:47:40 PM   
STUKA BARRY


 

Posts: 567
Joined: 12/31/2001
From: Summerfield, NC, USA
Status: offline 		HEY NIKITA, IF YOU ALREADY HAVE THE PLANS, CUT THEM YOURSELF.WHY PAY SOMEONE $300.00 WHEN YOU CAN DO IT. YOU WILL HAVE MORE PRIDE WHEN YOUR MIG3 LEAVES THE GROUND KNOWING YOU SCRATCHED EVERYTHING. IF SOMETHINGS NOT RIGHT, YOU CAN ONLY BLAME YOURSELF. CUTTING OUT BULKHEADS IS NOT DIFFICULT AT ALL. GIVE IT A TRY AND PUT THAT $300.00 TOWARDS THE G-62 ENGINE.JUST A THOUGHT.

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Kit cutters choice? - 4/7/2002 5:16:55 AM   
Nikita


 

Posts: 68
Joined: 1/22/2002
From: Cambridge, MA, USA
Status: offline 		What's a short vs long kit? I just have a set of plans, it's the 101" wingspan airplane. Looking to build it.
I thought about making a copy of the plans, but I don't know who would scan sheets that big. It's like 8x3ft.

Stuka, I thought about cutting the kit myself, but I think it's not worth my time and effort. And I won't save $300, since the wood also costs something. I'd like to save my time I would spend on 10 trips to a hobby store and countless hours cutting it. I'd rather be flying than messing around with plywood.

So, anybody can tell me about their experiences with All-American?
Nikita.

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       Post #: 4

kits - 4/7/2002 5:26:55 AM   
ProfLooney



Posts: 2413
Joined: 1/18/2002
From: Moline, IL, USA
Status: offline 		A short kit is all the parts you would have to cut out yourself. A long kit is a short kit PLUS all the other wood you need to build the kit ie stringers spars sheeting etc. I have found that it is a lot better and cheaper for me to go with the short kit so I can then choose my own wood for the rest. I have gotten kits from american kit cutters and precision but have had a lot of wood like for the sheeting that had been bowed or too light or too heavy on some wood so to me it is easier for me to buy my own extra wood and hand pick it myself. Also if you dont have 500 bucks or so for the kit all at once you can get the short kit and buy your extra wood a little at a time or if like me from building so many planes for others have a stash of different wood already that can be used.

as far as scanning I have a digital printing company do mine. Find an architectural drafting company and ask them. most companies have their own equipment and might be talked into scanning for you if they have a scanner or an architectural supply company which usually has scanning and printing services for architects or if you cant find one in your area you can send them to me and i can have it done for you. The company I use charges $15 a sheet so multiply that by the number of sheets and thats what it will cost as they have taxes etc all figured into their price.

Joe
[email]jahuntley@mchsi.com[/email]

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Kit cutters choice? - 4/7/2002 5:51:19 AM   
STUKA BARRY


 

Posts: 567
Joined: 12/31/2001
From: Summerfield, NC, USA
Status: offline 		I CAN APPRECIATE THE VALUE OF YOUR TIME. CUTTING OUT PARTS IS VERY TIME CONSUMING. MANY TRIPS TO THE HOBBY SHOP IS A PAIN, ALTHOUGH I DO LIKE THE BULL SESSIONS AND SEEING WHATS NEW. AS FAR AS SHORT AND LONG KITS GOES, SHORT KITS ARE JUST BULKHEADS AND WING RIBS. NO STRINGERS OR ANY SHEETING. YOUR BASIC FRAME UP. LONG KITS COST MORE BECAUSE EVERYTHING IS THERE. ONCE YOU HAVE A FEW SCRATCHES UNDER YOUR BELT, YOU WILL WANT TO GO TO THE HOBBY SHOP AND START HAND PICKING YOUR OWN WOOD. AT THAT TIME YOU WILL UNDERSTAND MORE OF WHAT I'M DESCRIBING. AS FAR AS THE KIT CUTTERS GO, I HAVE KNOW PREFERENCE. DOUG AND LARRY BOTH WILL TREAT YOU FAIR. THEY BOTH PRODUCE A FINE PRODUCT. AS FAR AS A MAJOR PRICE DIFFERENCE, I HAVE NO IDEA WHY. YOU WILL HAVE TO ASK THEM. THE MG3 IS A FINE CHOICE. NOT MANY AROUND THE WARBIRD RALLIES, BUT THE ONES I HAVE SEEN SEEM TO FLY VERY WELL AND HANDLE THE WIND, WHICH IS A PLUS.

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Difference - 4/7/2002 5:56:28 AM   
ProfLooney



Posts: 2413
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From: Moline, IL, USA
Status: offline 		I think the difference in time between the two is because of having to scan the plans , vecotorize them for the lasers then adjust all the notch sizes etc as the plans are always off on notch sizes etc because of paper expansion and shrinkage. All this takes time. For me when I vectorized my B-25 it took me about a week working on it off and on.

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Kit cutters choice? - 4/7/2002 6:08:22 AM   
STUKA BARRY


 

Posts: 567
Joined: 12/31/2001
From: Summerfield, NC, USA
Status: offline 		I DONT KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT COMPUTERS, BUT I KNOW YOU CAN TAKE THE PLANS TO ANY KINKO'S AND HAVE THEM COPIED FOR LITTLE MONEY AND THEY COME OUT PERFECT. KINKO'S IS OPEN 24HRS. I LIKE GOING THERE LATE. NOT MUCH GOING ON AND THE ATTENDANTS LIKE THE WORK. SOMETIMES THEY GIVE ME A BRAKE SEEIN THAT THE PLACE IS EMPTY. FOOD FOR THOUGHT.

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Kinkos - 4/7/2002 6:16:14 AM   
ProfLooney



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From: Moline, IL, USA
Status: offline 		Yes I used to have mine copied at kinkos but now just have my plans scanned so I can save them on a little cd instead of trying to find room for a lot of tubes. Also over time the paper will expand and contract with changes in climate they are in, by having them scanned to cd then having the parts vectorized from those plans when I get my kit cut and my parts in I run down to kinkos and have the plans printed out this way everything matches perfectly because the plans have not had time to shrink or grow. Call me a perfectionist but this way everything will be exactly the same. as your plans resize themselves you also have a chance that angles centerlines etc will be off alignment a little. Each person has their own preferences this is just one that works for me and also gives me plans on cd i can swap with others for other plans of planes i may want to build.

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Kit cutters choice? - 4/7/2002 7:45:59 AM   
STUKA BARRY


 

Posts: 567
Joined: 12/31/2001
From: Summerfield, NC, USA
Status: offline 		THAT SOUNDS GREAT TO ME. I'M NOT SURE ON EVERYTHING YOU SAID, BUT I GUESS ANYTHING ON A CD WILL LAST. I DONT KNOW COMPUTERS. ONE REASON FOR WEBTV.

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cd - 4/7/2002 7:50:36 AM   
ProfLooney



Posts: 2413
Joined: 1/18/2002
From: Moline, IL, USA
Status: offline 		The nice thing Stuka is you do not have to have a computer to have the plans on cd as kinkos or any similar place can print off the cd for you. to give you an example say you buy a set of plans like Zirolis Stearman for 48 bucks. you make a copy to build from and put your others away. you have a waterpipe break in the house and it gets your originals wet. you then have to take and buy another set if you want to build another one. with a cd if it gets wet you just dry it off and instead of paying 48 bucks for a new set of plans you goto kinkos and spend 15 to 20 bucks to get a set of plans printed out. money saving device.

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Kit cutters choice? - 4/7/2002 7:53:10 AM   
STUKA BARRY


 

Posts: 567
Joined: 12/31/2001
From: Summerfield, NC, USA
Status: offline 		COOL!!!

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Kit cutters choice? - 4/7/2002 7:25:58 PM   
CoosBayLumber


 

Posts: 3047
Joined: 1/20/2002
From: San Bernardino Calif
Status: offline 		Mr. Looney:

When going this route, ought to inform everyone on "plan stretch" and how this affects fit of slots.


Wm.

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       Post #: 13

coos - 4/7/2002 9:42:06 PM   
ProfLooney



Posts: 2413
Joined: 1/18/2002
From: Moline, IL, USA
Status: offline 		thought I did but by saving to cd wont get plan streatch cause plans wont stretch on the cd. also if using a kit cutter should be less problems because of no plan streatch. that is if i got what you were getting at.

Joe

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Mr. Looney - 4/7/2002 10:20:51 PM   
CoosBayLumber


 

Posts: 3047
Joined: 1/20/2002
From: San Bernardino Calif
Status: offline 		Oh, what was mentioned.....

The stretch factor is done before the file is written to a disk. On large format scanning, there is a stretch factor present in the direction that the page is run through the rolls. The stretch factor is not present on "flatbed" scanners. The firms around here have three different brands of scanners/printers. The OCE' seems to be the least problemmatic. It has an anti-stretch software factor in it. The Xerox style that is used by our Kinkos does not.


The stretch factor in feeding a 36 inch wide sheet through is about 1/8" per foot on Xerox. On the OCE' the software cuts this back to near zero. Thus if you have a 1/4 inch slot for a spar on a rib shown, if inserted into a Xerox machine one direction it becomes taller, the other it becomes wider. It must be some combination if the rib is shown diagonally. Much of this has to do with diameter of the rolls, direction which the image faces when inserted, and I don't know what else. You should be able to estimate the factor by measuring the distance on a marked line.


Is always dangerous assuming that scanned images are correct. You may be one of the cautious ones, and check things first, as once bitten you always remember. Has been a lot of nasty things mentioned about kit cutting firms past year in forums. The machine is stupid, and only runs from coordinate to coordinate. Much of the poor fit should have been taken care of by the CAD file operator. A friend showed me his rubber powered new laser cut kit, and the parts did not match the plans by a 1/16th here and there. All ribs were too short to match the chord. There are laser cut parts, and laser cut parts that fit.



Wm.

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gotcha - 4/7/2002 10:34:48 PM   
ProfLooney



Posts: 2413
Joined: 1/18/2002
From: Moline, IL, USA
Status: offline 		well after my plans are scanned I pull them into corel to trace all the parts for my friends laser. Now I know what you are talking abt fits because I have had the same problems thats why I do it myself now. One thing some people do that I have seen is to trace the part all the way around thus you are hoping all notches etc are drawn at the proper size. What I do to make sure every notch is correct it to use the shape tool and create say for ex a 1/4" x 1/4" square box. I then use that as a template and slide it into position then trace around it thus being sure My notches will be corrrect. I dont know what this company uses for a scanner but the boxes I make are pretty darn close to what is drawn. Now on the other end of it I got a set of plans for a Cloud Dancer which was scanned RCM plans and the notches are not even close to correct and do look like they have been streatched. But I never knew until now about scanners stretching drawings thanks for the info I think I will be sure to continue using this company as I have not had any problems yet.

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