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RE: HK Small Bolt Hydro same as HOTR - 5/13/2011 3:30 PM   
sundogz



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From: Harriet, AR, USA
Status: offline 		Rake, on channel 1 (steering) of mine the D/R is 100, the Exp is 0, and the End Point left is 75% and right is 100%. The end points differ when I get them to throw equally and not bind. They could throw further, but there's no point as the rudder is angled enough to turn the boat quickly.

Now listen to this. I wouldn't believe it, but I've been over everything several times. I had waterproofed all (11) of my Rx's with clear spray 'Liquid Electrical Tape', and installed 6 of them in boats. One turned out bad - wouldn't respond. So this morning in response to your post, I went to install of of the 4 remaining Rx's in the Bolt - and none of them work! Even one that had worked before I waterproofed it! Went back and checked the other 6 boats and all is well. These 4 don't do any different in those boats either.

Because the one had worked before I waterproofed it causes me to think I damaged them by spraying them. The weirdest thing is I randomly picked 6 that worked (1 not) without realising the other 4 wouldn't. Guess I'm living right. I should have checked them all before tampering with them so I could be more sure about this, but didn't. So now all I can do is order some more. And I'll be sure to check them before waterproofing them. I'm going to take one apart and scrape around a little, but this liquid electrcal tape is not supposed to conduct electricity. I dunno, but will let you know if I discover anything. Crap.

Edit: The Receivers are on backorder. Double crap.

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RE: HK Small Bolt Hydro same as HOTR - 5/13/2011 3:48 PM   
Rake


 

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Status: offline 		sdz - thats weird.

One thing I will say is that they can be a little sensitive.
I was messing with mine today and rebinding them to each of my Tx's in turn. On one occasion the newer one would not light up so I cleaned the pins with a nail file and then it worked ok.

Try re binding but make sure to try with and without the servo connected and make sure to turn the Tx off and on again before trying it.

I use this -

1) Connect motor, esc and servo to Rx
2) Insert bind lead
3) Connect lip and see flashing LED
4) press bind THEN power on the Tx

Led should stop blinking when bound

5) disconnect Lipo
7) power down Tx
8) remove bind plug
9) power up Tx
10) connect lipo - LED on Rx solid Red.

I used servisol plastic seal 60 - protective insulator. No problems as such.

I'm still quite confused about my issues I must say.
I suppose it must be the rudder / rod binding but i am still sceptical.

The servo used in the crash was digital and I've been told that if a digi cannot track to position it can overload the whole system
but this also happened with an analogue in the previous crash.

Can not having my endpoints set up correctly really have been the cause of my issues ?

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RE: HK Small Bolt Hydro same as HOTR - 5/13/2011 4:36 PM   
sundogz



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Status: offline 		Whew! Rake, you were right. I was not turning off the Tx each time, and evidentally that is imperative. All is well - they all check out fine now - even the one I thought was faulty. So I take back everything bad I said about them and many thanks for your help.

When I saw the Rx's were on backorder at HK, I hovered until the price went to $5.66 and went ahead and ordered ten more and paid for them. Now when I went to cancel the order (which they suggest you do by phone) I see a notice that phone help will be unavailable due to the volume of orders they have received. Figures. I can tell this is going to be one of those days when I shouldn't try to 'fix' anything.

I agree with Nick, for you to get a few of those cheapo HK brand micro servos and give them a try. They almost give them away at 2 bucks, and while I haven't tried the micro, I have 2 regular sized and one mini and they work great.

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RE: HK Small Bolt Hydro same as HOTR - 5/13/2011 4:41 PM   
Rake


 

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Status: offline 		Hi SDZ - Glad to be of help for a change !

Cancel by raising a service request - worked for me on the ESC.

I'll try the cheapo servo's but just dont want another crash !

Oh - dont forget the failsafe

I just waterproofed with silicine again - nothing is going to get by filling the entire Rx board and casing with that stuff.

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RE: HK Small Bolt Hydro same as HOTR - 5/13/2011 4:56 PM   
sundogz



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Status: offline 		I'm just thinking if you're going to be burning up servos, it might as well be cheap ones!

Left a service request, we'll see how that works out. Thx

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RE: HK Small Bolt Hydro same as HOTR - 5/15/2011 1:12 AM   
Basstronics


 

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Status: offline 		Ok Im lost. How are you guys destroying servo's?

I bent my rod so I can get maximum throw from the servo. At one point the rod will hit the rubber boots diameter causing it to stop.

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RE: HK Small Bolt Hydro same as HOTR - 5/15/2011 9:37 AM   
Rake


 

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Status: offline 		Bass let me explain. My last run resulted in a death blow and I thought it was due to the Rx as the bolt did not respond to shutting the throttle and just kept going full speed into a wall. Just before it did this the steering also jammed right and took a few seconds to correct. I had tested the rudder operation before and there as no bind. It does hit the boot but doesn't stick.

Once home I connected the servo and esc to the Rx and found that the servo was heating up to burning point and also the caps on the esc were too. In addition to this the Rx signal led was flickering erratically and then dies and there was no response to the tx.

If I connect another servo all is well.

This made me think that the servo failed causing the Rx to lose signal and hence the crash. This servo was a savox digital .

The question is what made the servo fail ? The savox rep said it was not having my endpoints adjusted causing a bind.

Is it a co incidence that I now have 3 blown servo.

< Message edited by Rake -- 5/15/2011 10:14 AM >

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RE: HK Small Bolt Hydro same as HOTR - 5/15/2011 8:21 PM   
Rake


 

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Status: offline 		Digital servo and bec article

Deep but very interesting.

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RE: HK Small Bolt Hydro same as HOTR - 5/16/2011 12:44 AM   
Basstronics


 

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Status: offline 		Interesting...

That explains why my bolt "ran away" towards the end of my run. Switching to an external BEC before next run.

Glad I had a spare now...

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RE: HK Small Bolt Hydro same as HOTR - 5/16/2011 9:37 AM   
Rake


 

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Status: offline 		So you had a simillar issue Bass ?

You use analogue servo's though, the Traxxas 2065 is not digital.
Never the less a simillar run away event happened when I was using them too.

Hope it didn't result in a crash like mine mate.

When you say spare, do you mean spare external battery pack ?
This may well be the way forward but I'm concerned about weight water and where to put the thing.

I think I might take a wander over to the ESC/Servo section and see if I can find an expert.

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RE: HK Small Bolt Hydro same as HOTR - 5/16/2011 11:05 AM   
Basstronics


 

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Status: offline 		There was two times I left off the throttle and it kept going full speed ahead for 2-3 seconds.

I would have to check what servo I have for sure. To early 6am...

I have an extra BEC in my goodies. Im going to just add to all my boats. Not taking a chance like that for $5 or so.

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RE: HK Small Bolt Hydro same as HOTR - 5/16/2011 2:03 PM   
sundogz



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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rake

When you say spare, do you mean spare external battery pack ?
This may well be the way forward but I'm concerned about weight water and where to put the thing.

I think I might take a wander over to the ESC/Servo section and see if I can find an expert.

Not a battery pack, but a little thing called a bec (battery elimination circuit). Here's a cheap one from HK. You wire it to your batteries any way that's convenient, and it provides regulated power for your radio and servos. Be sure to disconnect the red wire to your esc. I usually bend the tiny tab that holds the prong in the plug and slide it out. Then cover it with heat shrink tubing. That way it's still available for use later on.

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RE: HK Small Bolt Hydro same as HOTR - 5/16/2011 2:06 PM   
Rake


 

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Status: offline 		I wish we could monitor this.

theory at the moment is that we appear to be overloading our ESC BEC
The navy 45 BEC is only 2Amp.

Quite easy to overload with a digi servo that cant hit full throw ?

sdz - do you use these alot ? on your bolt at all ?

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RE: HK Small Bolt Hydro same as HOTR - 5/16/2011 2:53 PM   
sundogz



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Status: offline 		Do you mean - do I use bec's a lot? I do use them at times when the internal bec is acting up, or it is overwhelmed. I have one in a large jet drive boat with a 180A esc - so it could focus more on speed control (had blown caps). Of course I'd rather not have to - just more stuff to deal with. But you'll either need to use one or go with that Turnigy I recommended. I never thought to look at the specs of the Etti 45A to see what it could handle. But it sure sounds like you're zeroing in on the cause of those problems. I'll say it again - I believe the Turnigy is a better (in many ways) speed control that the etti unit. But if you like fooling with things, then the etti has been paid for. I predict you will eventually try the Turnigy - when you tire of the costs involved (and grief)! Your next order should probably include one - for insurance. Maybe you'll never use it. It's like that car part you buy because something is acting up. So you put it on the dash or glovebox until you can install it. But the car starts running good again, and months pass and you finally return the part and get a refund. You know what happens next. The following DAY the original part fails and the car quits somewhere far from home. Ha! Murphy's Law.

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RE: HK Small Bolt Hydro same as HOTR - 5/16/2011 3:05 PM   
Rake


 

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Status: offline 		Cheers sdz.

The only reason I backed out was that it was on backorder. The other thing is that its not waterproof. That can be ammended.

The ETTI is truely waterproof and to me and my sinking boats is a help.

Now I've just been on the phone with astec and he has imparted some of his knowledge very kindly.

Digital servo's draw shed loads of current when the endpoints have not been adjusted and they cant track to position. This leads to burnt FETs in the servo and loss of signal to the Rx = crash.

For this reson I am going back to analogue, and I will also adjust my endpoints for them too.

Doing it in this way I wont need a UBEC especially on 2S.

Now for the reason behind loss of control on my previous analogue - 2.4ghz and water.

In certain wave configurations from the water the signal can be lost leading to a crash if the failsafe has not been activated like with mine.

It would be interesting to know if Bass had his set ?

Another thing about 2.4 is water spray blocking the signal.

I am not sure how AFHDS on the flysky copes with this but in the world of spektrum its a dual antenna Rx which I dont beleive we can get on the flysky units.

So I'll enable my failsafes and take to the water again once the build is complete and I have my ESC back.

Anyway - lets see how it goes with failsafe activated !

One thing you were right about sdz - I did need that extra epoxy and glass !
I may well get that turnigy esc when they have em back in stock.

Regards.

R.

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RE: HK Small Bolt Hydro same as HOTR - 5/16/2011 3:57 PM   
sundogz



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Status: offline 		I took your advise and set the failsafe on all my boats. Was easy - just use the poker and hold the button down until it blinks. Now, here is something I'll bet you haven't thought of, and may have led to the runaway boat. You need to set the trim for the throttle channel (2). If when you touch the throttle, given a little movement the motor responds, you need to adjust it. The factory setting was too short (sensitive) for most of my boats, and I have gone to a setting of F10 to F20 now. Meaning you have to move the trigger a few mm's before throttle will kick in. On a couple, I had to squeeze and release a couple times to get it to stop! But setting it this way, it comes to a sure stop when the throttle is released. You might ought to check that out.

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RE: HK Small Bolt Hydro same as HOTR - 5/16/2011 4:11 PM   
Rake


 

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Status: offline 		sdz - gotcha more or less but can you ellaborate ,

Do you mean to set the throttle trim to F10 / 20 ? mine is at F30.

At F30 the ESC wont respond to it so I take it back to 0, programme and then go back to F30.

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RE: HK Small Bolt Hydro same as HOTR - 5/16/2011 4:18 PM   
sundogz



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Status: offline 		At the factory setting (N00) my throttle was too sensitive and some wouldn't stop. I had to go to F10 to F20 to give the trigger some movement before the motor would kick in. F30 sounds like overkill, but if that is what you needed to give it some 'play' so be it. I didn't know if you had set your trottle trim yet.

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RE: HK Small Bolt Hydro same as HOTR - 5/16/2011 4:20 PM   
Rake


 

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Status: offline 		Ahh ok I'm with you now.

Maybe I misunderstood the trim operation and still am - if I trim F10 / 20 / 30 - does that reduce or increase throttle ?

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RE: HK Small Bolt Hydro same as HOTR - 5/16/2011 4:29 PM   
sundogz



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Status: offline 		No, it adjusts the amount of travel the trigger moves before the motor responds is all. If set too low, it may not stop when you release the throttle. It is the 'end points' setting that adjusts the high and low speeds.

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RE: HK Small Bolt Hydro same as HOTR - 5/16/2011 4:32 PM   
Rake


 

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Status: offline 		OK understood, what do you have your Ch2 E.Points set to just out of interest ?

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RE: HK Small Bolt Hydro same as HOTR - 5/16/2011 4:51 PM   
sundogz



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Status: offline 		I've left them at 100% until I can run them to see if there's a conflict.

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RE: HK Small Bolt Hydro same as HOTR - 5/16/2011 10:19 PM   
Rake


 

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Status: offline 		Gents - some interesting info is emerging regarding runaways.

Runaway Boats

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RE: HK Small Bolt Hydro same as HOTR - 5/17/2011 3:33 AM   
sundogz



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Status: offline 		Well I guess the next move is to install an analog servo, and set the failsafe. And if something doesn't act right, install a bec to see if it is low voltage causing things to freak out. Does that sound right to you?

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RE: HK Small Bolt Hydro same as HOTR - 5/17/2011 7:57 AM   
Rake


 

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Status: offline 		Sounds spot on sdz. In addition to setting the throw on the servo of course

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