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RE: HK Small Bolt Hydro same as HOTR - 9/28/2012 11:19 PM   
Rake


 

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From: Liverpool, UNITED KINGDOM
Status: offline 		I'm beginning to think the old 2600 might have to make a come back if what landor is saying is true.

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RE: HK Small Bolt Hydro same as HOTR - 9/29/2012 4:40 AM   
carakter


 

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From: Quezon City, PHILIPPINES
Status: offline 		In my brief experience with boat motor swaps, all the 2 pole motors I used have gone up in smoke.
Which is Why I now look for 4 pole inrunners. Outrunners have more poles (more torque!), but cooling is an issue.


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RE: HK Small Bolt Hydro same as HOTR - 9/29/2012 8:45 AM   
Landor



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Some testing today...

Leopard 2445 3400kv
x432
Turnigy Marine 60A
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__7360__Turnigy_Marine_60A_Brushless_Boat_ESC.html
 

Turnigy nano-tech 2200mah 2S 35~70C Lipo Pack
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=11943
Top speed: 46 km/h
Motor temp: running cool
 

Turnigy nano-tech 2250mah 3S 65~130C Lipo Pack
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=19123
Top speed: 40 km/h one peak and second best 34 km/h
Motor temp: warm-hot


Turnigy nano-tech 1300mAh 4S 45~90C Lipo Pack
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=18208
Top speed: 44 km/h
Motor temp: warm-hot

...so instead of complaining about lack of motor torque the batteries may have difficulties to deliver enough juice. Only the 2s battery was running well. With other batteries there was instant lipo cutoff. With the 4s battery this is understandable. But on paper the 3s battery should deliver plenty of power - in practise not. Or is it anyway a motor torque issue?
 



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RE: HK Small Bolt Hydro same as HOTR - 9/29/2012 2:11 PM   
Landor



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New test with two of these in series...

Turnigy nano-tech 2200mah 2S 35~70C Lipo Pack
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=11943
Voltage: 4s2p
Top speed: 71 km/h
Motor temp: cool (but only 60 s runtime)

This time there was not any sign of lipocutoff. I did two max. speed passes. Both enend to flips, so the 71 km/h speed is most likely not the best from this setup. The servo broke after the second pass. One plastic gear broke. At least the second pass ended when nose rised nicely upwards.The weather was not optimal, a bit too rough. I am not really familar how much you can change the behavior with strut adjustment.

Other thing I changed since the earlier post was that I did some propeller sharpening and polishing. There was not any clear problem with it earlier I just did it when doing the same for few other propellers. Im not sure if this can explain why the 3s 2,2 Ah 65C battery didn't work last time. Unfortunatelly I didn't have a chance to test it now.



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RE: HK Small Bolt Hydro same as HOTR - 9/29/2012 4:59 PM   
Landor



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...and story continues...

Two of these...
Turnigy nano-tech 2200mah 2S 35~70C Lipo Pack
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=11943
Voltage: 4s2p
Top speed: 72 km/h just before flipping
Motor temp: hot (3,5 min run time)

The max. pass was the only full throtle try. That ended to flip. The setup difference this time was that I turned the propeller lower than last time. Didn't see much change. The wearher was now better than last time. At least the torque twist seems to try to flip the boat clockwise around. This effect started to be strong already in speeds a bit less than 60 km/h.


I tested also the battery
Turnigy nano-tech 2250mah 3S 65~130C Lipo Pack
again. But lipo cut off hit durng first speed pass.

I tested also one
Turnigy 2200mAh 3S 20C Lipo Pack
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idproduct=8932
but cutoff was instant destiny.

The 4s seems to be too much for this system. The 2s seems to be nice steady setup. The 3s would have more fun factor and would be interesting to test. I just don't seem to have proper battery. I just ordered one of these to be tested:
Gens Ace 2200mAh 11.1V 55C
http://www.gensace.com/Gens-ace-2200mAh-111V-55C-3S1P-Lipo-Battery-Pack

I was thinking also this as alternative
Turnigy nano-tech A-SPEC 2200mah 3S 65~130C Lipo Pack
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=25427
but decided to test the Gens ace.



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RE: HK Small Bolt Hydro same as HOTR - 9/29/2012 7:49 PM   
Rake


 

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Status: offline 		Brilliant testing landor thank you for sharing.
I will try 2s 30mm prop next week. The problem for me is boat recovery !

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RE: HK Small Bolt Hydro same as HOTR - 10/1/2012 6:01 PM   
carakter


 

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From: Quezon City, PHILIPPINES
Status: offline 		70kmh is probably way too much speed for the Bolt. This is pushing the envelope and clearly beyond the capability of the small hull.
Yes Lander, thank you for the extensive and thorough tests you performed. I learned a lot from you today!
By the way, what props are you using? 


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RE: HK Small Bolt Hydro same as HOTR - 10/1/2012 7:48 PM   
Landor



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From: Vantaa, FINLAND
Status: offline 		The propeller was always the same: metal x432. Most likely a octura copy. It says TFI 432 in it.

I sharpened and polished the propeller after the first set. This didn't change anything, my 3s battery still activated the cutoff.

The calculator
http://www.radiocontrolinfo.com/RCcalculator/BoatCalculator.php
Estimates 63,3 km/h with 3s. I really hope I can test this with the new battery.
- is the max speed too much
- does it generate too much heat


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RE: HK Small Bolt Hydro same as HOTR - 10/2/2012 3:21 AM   
carakter


 

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From: Quezon City, PHILIPPINES
Status: offline 		If you setup right then heat won't be an issue. I really don't know how much speed the hull can reliably handle as I have not
 done much in terms of testing. You on the other is the one more qualified to answer that.
How does the hull behave at those speeds? If you can do full pass runs back to back then that's a good indicator. 
I am sure the water conditions play a good role in achieving those high speed runs. 
I am just thankful that you are recording everything in your trial runs. 
By the way, the strut height dictates how much ride height the hull is on or off the water. Move in 1mm increments and mark your reference stock point so you don't end up guessing how much you've adjusted. Keep that shaft well greased and more success in your tests!


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RE: HK Small Bolt Hydro same as HOTR - 10/2/2012 5:17 PM   
Landor



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From: Vantaa, FINLAND
Status: offline 		I received the battery today...
Gens Ace 2200mAh 11.1V 55C
Local store had them in stock...
http://www.eurorc.com/product/1361/gens-ace-2200mah-111v-55c-3s1p-lipo-battery-pack

... and yes ...that battery worked. There was not any cutoffs. Top speed was 67 km/h (41 mph), second best 64 km/h.  At the end of 5,5 min run the speeds were 56 km/h, 56 km/h and 52 km/h just before battery was empty.

I opened the hatch and measured 42 °C from battery and 37 °C from motor.
- with water temperature about 10 °C

So this config feels very good...
- Leopard 2445 3400kv
- x432
- Turnigy Marine 60A
- Gens Ace 2200mAh 11.1V 55C

Edit:  Image
I placed the battery to left side as much as possible to fight against torque twist.
The "G.730 VENTUS GPS-logger" next to battery.


Edit 2: Trying to add video



HD link here

2 min 40 s more from same run
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g74dtrZagGk&hd=1
in this video part the top speed was 64 km/h, this happens at 20 s and at 54 s. For example in more visual pass at 1 min 3 sec the recorded speed is only 52 km/h.



< Message edited by Landor -- 10/2/2012 9:58 PM >

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RE: HK Small Bolt Hydro same as HOTR - 10/3/2012 4:40 AM   
carakter


 

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From: Quezon City, PHILIPPINES
Status: offline 		Nice pond you have there! You should consider trying other props, even 3 blades.
Smaller diameter props are beneficial to higher kv motors.


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RE: HK Small Bolt Hydro same as HOTR - 10/6/2012 4:37 PM   
Landor



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I tested this 33/3 propeller with 3s
P1.4*D33/3 Propeller
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__13395__P1_4_D33_3_Propeller_PK2_Warrior_Sea_Rider.html
The weather was not optimal. The propeller also broke. Perhaps too much power.

I tested 4s with this 27 mm propeller...
Prop Nylon 1.4 X 27
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__12695__Prop_Nylon_1_4_X_27.html
The boat didn't get speed at all without throwing it to water. This made the boat very uncomfortable to run.



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RE: HK Small Bolt Hydro same as HOTR - 10/6/2012 7:01 PM   
carakter


 

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Status: offline 		I wouldn't trust the plastic props from HK, stick with the Octura's.

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RE: HK Small Bolt Hydro same as HOTR - 10/11/2012 12:47 AM   
Basstronics


 

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Status: offline 		Try an X632?

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RE: HK Small Bolt Hydro same as HOTR - 4/16/2013 3:31 PM   
carakter


 

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Hi guys! Any of you still tinkering with your Bolts? After a loooong while, I got to run the Bolt at a new pond near me last Sunday.
I  tried the EKOS 3 blade plastic prop. Good takeoff but no top end.
Good for goofing around. Too bad my run was cut short when the servo unglued itself.  And I had 3 packs charged!

 Well, now that I'm into running the Bolt again, might as well SBP my X432 and give that a spin. By the way, any of you tried tinkering with the prop ride height (strut adjustment)? Will try lowering the prop next run.



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RE: HK Small Bolt Hydro same as HOTR - 4/16/2013 8:54 PM   
Mikeup


 

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Status: offline 		My ? is this! How much chop can the Bolt take? I figure it is a calm water boat, but i can be wrong, thanks!

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RE: HK Small Bolt Hydro same as HOTR - 4/16/2013 9:40 PM   
sundogz



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Status: offline 		No, you weren't wrong. It can handle ripples, but not swells. Anything taller than the boat (which isn't very tall) puts a damper on things.

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RE: HK Small Bolt Hydro same as HOTR - 4/16/2013 9:45 PM   
Rake


 

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Status: offline 		Still here but not run it for ages !

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RE: HK Small Bolt Hydro same as HOTR - 4/16/2013 10:17 PM   
sundogz



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Status: offline 		Well howdy do, neighbor! Good to see you're still out and about. I am rightly impressed that you still have your Bolt. Timeless fun, I suppose. Well, mostly fun with a little bother thrown in to keep it interesting!

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RE: HK Small Bolt Hydro same as HOTR - 4/16/2013 10:51 PM   
nickster46


 

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From: Amsterdam, NETHERLANDS
Status: offline 		Still here as well guys! But my bolt is still sitting in it's box.
Need to buy myself some new lipo charger and I guess a couple of lipos as well...


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RE: HK Small Bolt Hydro same as HOTR - 4/16/2013 11:01 PM   
Rake


 

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Status: offline 		Thanks sundogz, glad to hear or rad you too friend.
Still got 3 hulls but little time between day job, business venture, kids, wife etc etc.
Will no doubt find some time to sink my bolt as spectacularly as ever soon enough though !

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RE: HK Small Bolt Hydro same as HOTR - 4/17/2013 3:33 AM   
sundogz



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Status: offline 		And Nickster too! How about that. Well, old habits are hard to quit, aren't they? Good to hear you're both alive and hopefully well. Yep, you'd better get those lipos and that charger, methinks.

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RE: HK Small Bolt Hydro same as HOTR - 4/17/2013 2:54 PM   
carakter


 

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Status: offline 		Anybody know of  a cheap 4-pole replacement motor?

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RE: HK Small Bolt Hydro same as HOTR - 4/17/2013 6:07 PM   
Yura


 

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Status: offline 		Hello guys!
I also run my Bolt last year.
Now it is spring in Russia, soon it will be possible to run again.
Last year I also bought second Bolt to play with somebody else, but still have not tried.
For the second I bought new ESC from HK. It is HK 30A simple waterproof ESC, but with reverse (!)
Want to try reversing, because it is needed sometimes.

A lot of other R/C take the time.
I had at least 2 planes, 2 quadcopters, want to try FPV and also bought R/C car. Can't imagine free time to run boats also


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RE: HK Small Bolt Hydro same as HOTR - 4/17/2013 7:57 PM   
Landor



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From: Vantaa, FINLAND
Status: offline 		Yes, lakes are still frozen also here in Finland. But this should change in a few weeks, actually there is already some open areas.

Thanks to opening this thread again... I also activated and ordered one Octura X632/3 alu cnc 1/8 dog drive propeller. 


quote:

ORIGINAL: carakter

Anybody know of  a cheap 4-pole replacement motor?


Well, I checked only what Leopard has to offer. One option could be LEOPARD 2845 KV2960 .  And a cooling jacket for it LB28WCJ. Those key words should work in ebay. 



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