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RE: New Skymaster F16 1/8 in noob hands! - 9/20/2010 1:47 PM   
Rush!


 

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Status: online 		These pics were taken just yesterday...  my Skymaster kit next to my friends Jet legend kit.  The Skymaster kit is a little larger in the wing area, intake and is a bit longer but it is also quite heavier than the JL kit.  The skymaster kit major difference is actually the composite skin.  its more robust/thicker and stiffer than the JL kit....  but it is heavier which has associated penalties... 



I was able to complete NG tracking test, range test w/o turbine operating, range test with turbine operating,  full power turbine run up observing temps and fuel consumption.... 

The range checks were really good. 60+ paces and flight log recordeded only 1 frame loss during the whole range test with the Turbine at full power and the tx at 12 o-clock from the planes nose where the tx signal is supposedly weakest....  I gotta say i am really happy with the DSMJ performance. 

The only problem i had was the uneven drawdown of fuel from the conformal tanks.  It may still be a vent issue so i think i will increase my vent fitting to one with a 3mm opening.  I also need to look at some ECU parameters as power seems to be developing to slowly so that may be a fuel restriction problem whcih occurred after i had installed some fuel line clips.   I'll do that all next week hopefully. 

hopefully i get to sort out these small problems quikcly and can maiden her soon.... 


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RE: New Skymaster F16 1/8 in noob hands! - 9/20/2010 3:22 PM   
RAPPTOR


 

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Status: offline 		hi.what fuel pump did you get with your kingtech?? looks different than mine.. thanks

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RE: New Skymaster F16 1/8 in noob hands! - 9/20/2010 5:24 PM   
Guillermo Ibanez



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Status: offline 		Hey Rush, congratulations,

When is your maiden? 


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RE: New Skymaster F16 1/8 in noob hands! - 9/20/2010 6:12 PM   
Rush!


 

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Status: online 		@ Rapptor - its the stock fuel pump that came from kingtech.  not really sure what brand it is....

@ Guillo - Thanks.  Really appreciate your help with my questions during the build....  I am still not happy with the turbine lag and power which i think is a fuel flow/line problem and i think i may have to rework the fuel pump position closer to the turbine itself as well as reroute/shorten the fuel lines between the pump and the turbine itself.  I will rework the fuel pump installation this week i guess.... 

maybe October? 

How is you F16 coming along? were you able to install the LE servos?  How did you do it and what servos did you use?


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RE: New Skymaster F16 1/8 in noob hands! - 9/20/2010 6:21 PM   
Guillermo Ibanez



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Status: offline 		Hope October come soon

I am working on my new set of wings.

Not ready yet.  Maybe for October 

I am planning to install Futaba 3050 digital servos (2 for each LE flap)



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RE: New Skymaster F16 1/8 in noob hands! - 9/20/2010 6:22 PM   
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Status: offline 		Rush, 18# dry seems correct. You know you really don't need all that heat shield on the tail.....unless you are trying to protect from a pipe failure.

Do yourself a favor, place a layer of carbon cloth or heavy fiberglass on the inlet just underneath the nose gear area. The nose gear mounts are made of a "soft" type of hardwood and break easily, which can cause damage to the inlet. As you can see.......the inlet cannot be replaced so you want to protect it as best as possible.

You may also want to add a thin metal plate around the turbine exhaust to protect the retracts and retracts line from exposure to hot gasses.

Godd luck!

David

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RE: New Skymaster F16 1/8 in noob hands! - 9/20/2010 6:37 PM   
Rush!


 

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Status: online 		Hi  David... 

Thanks.  Would you have pictures of how the CF/FG cloth was layered at the inlet?  I agree with you that protecting it from damage would be a great idea.  Would 1.5mm CF plate on the Nose gear mounts work to strengthen?   I used the same CF plate to shim the turbine mounts and have extra material. 

I have put a ceramic heat shield above and below the turbine exhaust.  Its not visible in the picture but i hope that it suffices.  has there been a case where the retract lines failed due to the high temperatures near the exhaust?  i was unable to shielld portions of the pneumatic line with the insulation.... 


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RE: New Skymaster F16 1/8 in noob hands! - 9/20/2010 6:46 PM   
Rush!


 

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Status: online 		Guillo hehe  October may come very soon i think   A lot of people want to see it fly and its getting quite intimidating

The plan is to maiden my kit as well as the JL kit together but the JL kit is at least 2 weeks away from completion plus ground tests.  

Most of my ground testing is complete and aside from the fuel power and plumbing issue, i just need to connect a GYA351 gyro for the ailerons and a spartan quark for the rudder and then i am good to go.  I have set SM recommended throws and expos for all control surface...  So i will have 3 gyros (nose gear, Rudder and ailerons)

I am a convert to gyro flying ever since i put my them on my Extra 330 so they will definitely go on the 16. 

How much flap travel did you use and did you program in any elevator correction?  Currently my TO flaps is 10mm with landing flaps at 20mm...  Would these be ok? 

I am still trying to figure out if i can program my 11x to have tailerons on TO/Landing and then normal Elevator/rudder for cruise and aerobatic flights....  


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RE: New Skymaster F16 1/8 in noob hands! - 9/20/2010 7:10 PM   
FalconWings



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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rush!

Hi  David... 

Thanks.  Would you have pictures of how the CF/FG cloth was layered at the inlet?  I agree with you that protecting it from damage would be a great idea.  Would 1.5mm CF plate on the Nose gear mounts work to strengthen?   I used the same CF plate to shim the turbine mounts and have extra material. 

I have put a ceramic heat shield above and below the turbine exhaust.  Its not visible in the picture but i hope that it suffices.  has there been a case where the retract lines failed due to the high temperatures near the exhaust?  i was unable to shielld portions of the pneumatic line with the insulation.... 



I don't have pics sorry, since I donated my F-16 to Science (to a local High School).

The 1.5mm plate should help a lot, but still add f/g or carbon to the inlet just in case.

My Tamjets F-16 had the same main retracts setup with the airlines right below the exhaust, and yes they melted all the time. I added the metal plate.......problem solved!

Again, the exhaust area really doesn't get that hot unless you have a tailpipe failure. Do try to keep the servo leads from touching the pipe. I tape them to the fuselage sides using aluminum tape all throughtout the length of the leads.

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RE: New Skymaster F16 1/8 in noob hands! - 9/20/2010 7:50 PM   
Guillermo Ibanez



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Status: offline 		I use 20° of flaps but I think that 15° is a better set up.   


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RE: New Skymaster F16 1/8 in noob hands! - 9/21/2010 4:14 AM   
Rush!


 

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Status: online 		Thanks guys...  appreciate the help! 


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RE: New Skymaster F16 1/8 in noob hands! - 9/21/2010 4:53 AM   
Rush!


 

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Status: online 		David,

Thanks.   Yup...  My servo line run along the fuselage sides and are held in place with servo line clips.  As added security, i taped them in place with ceramic blanket that had double adhesive tape on one side. 

I'm going to rework the fuel pump/fuel line arrangement and put it into the engine bay.  I'll post the pictures of the new layout.... 

Regards! 

Rob






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RE: New Skymaster F16 1/8 in noob hands! - 9/21/2010 5:25 AM   
hyperdyne


 

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Status: offline 		I had a similar issue with the retract lines. I ended up wrapping them in aluminum tape and putting heat shield all over that area. The thin plate is a good idea, I will add it when I take the turbine out again.

I also wrapped the servo lines in aluminum tape going back.

Are you guys putting heat shield on the top of the fuse above the pipe? That area seems to get very hot, and I am not sure if it is from my turbine sputtering causing heat flashes in that area. Normally I wouldnt expect that to get very hot.



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RE: New Skymaster F16 1/8 in noob hands! - 9/21/2010 5:33 AM   
Rush!


 

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Status: online 		Yup.  heat shielded all the wires that run into the hot section.... 

I also have ceramic blanket above and below the part where the exhaust of the tubrine meets the bellmouth of the pipe.  i need to add more to protect the retract air line, a portion of which isnt fully shielded yet. 

I'm not really sure how i could install the thin plate...  its a heavy enough plane as it is right now... 

quote:

ORIGINAL: hyperdyne

I had a similar issue with the retract lines. I ended up wrapping them in aluminum tape and putting heat shield all over that area. The thin plate is a good idea, I will add it when I take the turbine out again.

I also wrapped the servo lines in aluminum tape going back.

Are you guys putting heat shield on the top of the fuse above the pipe? That area seems to get very hot, and I am not sure if it is from my turbine sputtering causing heat flashes in that area. Normally I wouldnt expect that to get very hot.





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RE: New Skymaster F16 1/8 in noob hands! - 9/21/2010 5:46 AM   
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Status: offline 		Here's some ideas for the equipment setup:

BTW, my mistake, on the SM F-16 you are better off with a piece of aluminum plate above the exhaust/bellmouth. The retract lines were far enough that did not get damaged. For some reason I thought I installed it on the bottom, but that was just on the Cermark and Tamjets. You can see the plate on the first picture.



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RE: New Skymaster F16 1/8 in noob hands! - 9/21/2010 6:23 AM   
Guillermo Ibanez



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This is my set up
 
The mai gear retract lines are fixed to the fuse bottom using air line clips.  

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RE: New Skymaster F16 1/8 in noob hands! - 9/21/2010 6:38 AM   
hyperdyne


 

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Status: offline 		Thanks, that gives me some ideas. BTW falconwings, how does the SM 16 fly on the rabbit? I have a falcon in mine right now but it is giving me trouble. I was thinking of putting my rabbit in it and ditching the falcon.



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RE: New Skymaster F16 1/8 in noob hands! - 9/21/2010 6:44 AM   
joeflyer



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quote:

Are you guys putting heat shield on the top of the fuse above the pipe? That area seems to get very hot, and I am not sure if it is from my turbine sputtering causing heat flashes in that area. Normally I wouldnt expect that to get very hot.


Heat rises! I have a ceramic blanket covering the sides and top of the fuse from the engine tailcone to about 1/2 the length of the pipe. The rest of the rear fuse is coated with BVM Heatshield. Most importantly the ceramic blanket is covered with aluminum tape. Most of the heat the fuse is exposed to is radiant heat and the aluminum does more good than the blanket or Heatshield coating. Also make sure that your elevator servos are shielded.

The hottest section is between the rear of the engine and the bellmouth so also add aluminum tape to that area of the half by-pass that fits under the engine (to protect the retracts and airlines). I also installed an aluminum heat shield above the tailcone/bellmouth area, like Falcon Wings.

Joe

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RE: New Skymaster F16 1/8 in noob hands! - 9/21/2010 6:46 AM   
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Status: offline 		It flew it really well. As you can see from my setup, I kept it very light and simple so I could get the best performance out of the relatively small Rabbit.
Go for the Rabbit! I also have a P-80SE on my Bandit and I love it, but for this ariframe the Rabbit is "the" one.

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RE: New Skymaster F16 1/8 in noob hands! - 10/6/2012 4:59 PM   
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Status: offline 		Rob,

I see you have the same sequencer I am trying to set up.

Please tell me your settings? I am trying to set up mode 3, but the front door fires out of sequence:

I am trying to set up mode 3. I have the main gear doors plugged into
D2 and the front door plugged into D1.

When I click the radio switch for gear down this is what happens:

1) Main gear doors open. (Correct)
2) Gear Down (Correct)
3) Main Gear doors close (Correct)
4) Front door opens <- This is taking place at the wrong time. I can not get the times set for this to happen at any other time.

When I click the radio switch for gear up this is what happens:

1) Front door closes <- This is taking place at the wrong time. I can not get the times set for this to happen at any other time.
2) Main gear doors open. (Correct)
3) Gear up (Correct)
4) Main Gear doors close (Correct)

Thanks Scott

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RE: New Skymaster F16 1/8 in noob hands! - 10/7/2012 2:53 PM   
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Status: online 		Scott,

I think you're using the wrong mode.  I believe i use M1, doors open, gear up, doors close /  doors open, gear down, doors stay open.  

I think M3 is for two sets of doors per oleo which i use in my rafale/t45 setup....  M3 requires an additional servo/valve

Check the programming on the manual...  the manual is available on Dreamworksrc i think... 

Regards


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RE: New Skymaster F16 1/8 in noob hands! - 10/8/2012 10:03 PM   
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Status: offline 		Hi

After having built and flown several F16 1/8, I have reached a conclusion:

NEVER use a turbine int the tail, even if it is a P60, Rabbit or whatever. Even with correct CG, the weight distribution will not be correct, i.e., it will not be centered near the CG. This will affect the inercia momentum in the plane axis and make it tricky with elevator control.

Some may disagree, but it is quite different to have 2Kg in the CG, or have 1Kg in the rear of the plane and another Kg in the nose. The CG will be in the same place but inercia momentum will be quite different.

Best regards

Nuno

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RE: New Skymaster F16 1/8 in noob hands! - 10/8/2012 10:48 PM   
FalconWings



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quote:

ORIGINAL: jetnuno

Hi

After having built and flown several F16 1/8, I have reached a conclusion:

NEVER use a turbine int the tail, even if it is a P60, Rabbit or whatever. Even with correct CG, the weight distribution will not be correct, i.e., it will not be centered near the CG. This will affect the inercia momentum in the plane axis and make it tricky with elevator control.

Some may disagree, but it is quite different to have 2Kg in the CG, or have 1Kg in the rear of the plane and another Kg in the nose. The CG will be in the same place but inercia momentum will be quite different.

Best regards

Nuno


I agree to that. I mounted my Rabbit in the tail and stopped after adding 1.25 lbs of dead weight in the nose.
As with any other airplane, the lighter the better. Put that CG right, and you will have the best sport plane ever. Looks good, nice speed, turns and burns, then lands like a baby.

I will ALWAYS have an F16.

David



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RE: New Skymaster F16 1/8 in noob hands! - 10/9/2012 3:19 AM   
causeitflies



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quote:

ORIGINAL: jetnuno

Hi

After having built and flown several F16 1/8, I have reached a conclusion:

NEVER use a turbine int the tail, even if it is a P60, Rabbit or whatever. Even with correct CG, the weight distribution will not be correct, i.e., it will not be centered near the CG. This will affect the inercia momentum in the plane axis and make it tricky with elevator control.

Some may disagree, but it is quite different to have 2Kg in the CG, or have 1Kg in the rear of the plane and another Kg in the nose. The CG will be in the same place but inercia momentum will be quite different.

Best regards

Nuno

nuno,
I think you've been reading my mind.
I started flying my F-16 with a P-60 in the tail with big heavy batteries in the nose. I then went to the Wren SS in the tail with bigger batteries in the nose. I flew it this way for about three years. In the air I never had a problem and it flew beautifully although it was heavier than it needed to be. I flew it hard.

Landing was a different story. The landings could make me look like the best pilot in the world one flight and the worst the next flight LOL. Although most of my landings were greasers, that occasional bad landing took it's toll on the landing gear formers.

Now this and the last season the F-16 has been on the shelf because I put the SS in another plane. I was thinking of putting a 100 in it but have since decided to put the SS back in after I send it in for a checkup (49.5 hrs. on the Wren). Only this time it will be with a Wren pipe and lighter batteries. I was thinking the exact same thing about the inertia with all the weight at the extreme ends of the air frame. Plus the fuse was getting stress cracks in the center, lacking the support of the engine in that area. Did I mention that I flew it hard?

So next season I should have a different flying bird with most of the mass near the CG and weighing less overall. It will be fun to compare the flight characteristics of the two layouts.

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RE: New Skymaster F16 1/8 in noob hands! - 11/25/2012 9:49 PM   
steveline9



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Status: offline 		Hi guys, I've just bought the ARFPlus version and have been told by skymaster that the p80 is perfect for this model despite the instructions saying for up to 17lb thrust!!! What do you think??? Thrust/weight??? Also there are no brass sleeves and no spacers which fit over the elevator rods as they come through the inside of the fuselage. Are the spacers stanard pieces in the kit?
Also the bolt which should go through the nose cone to retain it is about 5mm short of even coming through!!! Has anyone else had this issue?

Cheers guys
Steve

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