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RE: NEW DLE 20cc Gasser! (Data & Links 1st Post) - 12/22/2011 7:04 AM   
kiwibob72


 

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Status: offline 		All this kerfuffle over to use or not use ethanol or not has me wondering, is it hard to get normal old school non ethanol gas in other 1st world locations in the world? (bio-gas other than diesel isn't a big things here, well at least it's not advertised freely) - purely just curious, not taking a dig or anything.

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RE: NEW DLE 20cc Gasser! (Data & Links 1st Post) - 12/22/2011 1:48 PM   
SkidMan


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: kiwibob72

All this kerfuffle over to use or not use ethanol or not has me wondering, is it hard to get normal old school non ethanol gas in other 1st world locations in the world? (bio-gas other than diesel isn't a big things here, well at least it's not advertised freely) - purely just curious, not taking a dig or anything.


I don't believe that anyone is suggesting that you need, or even want, to avoid 10% ethanol gasoline for the sake of the engine.

(Off-topic - Ethanol fuel results in a significant decrease in mileage - > the percentage of ethanol???. Once you factor in the mileage reduction 10% ethanol, let alone E85, is pretty much "filler" rather than fuel - especially once the energy expended in producing the ethanol is factored in. Ethanol fuels have been a real boon to the farming states but based on my own experience it doesn't cut down on fossil fuels nearly as much as they would have you think.)

In the "states" it is difficult to find gasoline that is not at least 10% ethanol at normal gas stations. In Florida, and I assume most states, it is easily available at marinas and many racing and high performance shops carry it for off-road use (it is not taxed to support highway construction and maintenance).

What's the story on ethanol in New Zealand?



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RE: NEW DLE 20cc Gasser! (Data & Links 1st Post) - 12/22/2011 1:50 PM   
acdii


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: kiwibob72

All this kerfuffle over to use or not use ethanol or not has me wondering, is it hard to get normal old school non ethanol gas in other 1st world locations in the world? (bio-gas other than diesel isn't a big things here, well at least it's not advertised freely) - purely just curious, not taking a dig or anything.


All the stations here in Illinois are 10% blended.  The gov here has forced it upon us so they can give the subsidies to the farmers and makers of ethanol, otherwise it wouldn't pay to make it, aside from that I really see no reason it should even be in the gas.  E85 is a complete waste, lower fuel efficiency, and cost just about as much as gas. Winter driving in the cold regions on E85 is terrible, it takes longer to start, and warm up the engine, creating even lower FE.  I had a car that was"flex fuel", and tried it for a while, never going to do that again.  Whats funny though, the Thortons stations around here have all installed new E85 and E30 pumps, but I have yet see anyone use them, in fact the E30 tanks aren't even filled. 
 
OTOH bio-diesel, that is something I am all for, since it can be created from just about anything that has oil in it, from Algae to soybeans, and diesels can run on 100% bio-diesel. My Kubota tractor runs on used vegetable oil and waste motor oil, and very little dino, just enough to thin the mix. Its been running on that for 3 years now without any problems. 
 
These little engines will run fine on 10% blend though, only precaution to take is drain the tank and carb when done flying for the season. It lessens the risk of the parts from getting damaged from the ethanol.  Even if all the parts are 100% compatible, why take the chance. 


BTW not a rant or political talk, just stating the facts. 


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RE: NEW DLE 20cc Gasser! (Data & Links 1st Post) - 12/22/2011 2:35 PM   
SpinnerRow



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ORIGINAL: acdii

E85 is a complete waste, lower fuel efficiency, and cost just about as much as gas.


Hold on a second! I race cars occasionally and have had a few high performance cars in my day. E85 is a great fuel for a performance car as the octane rating is over 100 (depending on the additives). A turbo or supercharged car loves this stuff as the alcohol cools the intake charge considerably and you can run more time advance and thus make more power. Sometimes a LOT more power. A Lamborghini Gallardo with a twin turbo setup can make 1000hp on gas but can make 1500hp on E85.

So, don't hate on the corn mash!

This post had nothing to do with R/C or the DLE 20 did it?

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RE: NEW DLE 20cc Gasser! (Data & Links 1st Post) - 12/22/2011 2:51 PM   
microdon2


 

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Status: offline 		No, but it was good reading, none the less!

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RE: NEW DLE 20cc Gasser! (Data & Links 1st Post) - 12/22/2011 3:21 PM   
SkidMan


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SpinnerRow
...
A Lamborghini Gallardo with a twin turbo setup can make 1000hp on gas but can make 1500hp on E85.


Got any data on that? The math totally doesn't work on that.



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RE: NEW DLE 20cc Gasser! (Data & Links 1st Post) - 12/22/2011 4:15 PM   
RC MANIAC119


 

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Status: offline 		Wait a minute.........So your saying that the federal government forced us to use E 85, subsidized the farmers, and made sure that this stuff is in the ground at every gas Station.....because of all the Lamborghini Gallardos, with a twin turbo setup that we drive here in the U.S.?

Sounds kinda fishy to me...........

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RE: NEW DLE 20cc Gasser! (Data & Links 1st Post) - 12/22/2011 4:39 PM   
SpinnerRow



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quote:

ORIGINAL: SkidMan
Got any data on that? The math totally doesn't work on that.


No, sorry, I make this stuff up as I go along...

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RE: NEW DLE 20cc Gasser! (Data & Links 1st Post) - 12/22/2011 4:52 PM   
microdon2


 

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RE: NEW DLE 20cc Gasser! (Data & Links 1st Post) - 12/22/2011 5:04 PM   
SpinnerRow



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ORIGINAL: microdon2

You mean you're winging it?

Hangin' on the prop....

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RE: NEW DLE 20cc Gasser! (Data & Links 1st Post) - 12/22/2011 6:37 PM   
kiwibob72


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SpinnerRow


quote:

ORIGINAL: SkidMan
Got any data on that? The math totally doesn't work on that.


No, sorry, I make this stuff up as I go along...



Looking at the link, I love how you guys over there can just go in and order that level of mind-numbing stupidity off the shelf ..... almost makes me thing of emigrating! (we have performance shops and aftermarket nut jobs for sure, but I don't think we are at the "wheel in your lambo and get bolt on 1500hp" stage)

PS - to answer SpinnerRow's previous question, no, this post has nothing what so ever to do with RC and or DLE20's .....

Now, better start saving for that lambo and flights/shipping I think .....

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RE: NEW DLE 20cc Gasser! (Data & Links 1st Post) - 12/22/2011 10:11 PM   
SpinnerRow



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quote:

ORIGINAL: kiwibob72

Looking at the link, I love how you guys over there can just go in and order that level of mind-numbing stupidity off the shelf ..... almost makes me thing of emigrating! (we have performance shops and aftermarket nut jobs for sure, but I don't think we are at the ''wheel in your lambo and get bolt on 1500hp'' stage)


I would be that mind numbingly stupid if I had the money! Riding in one of those is almost as cool as the realization that your wanker is used for something other than peeing!



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RE: NEW DLE 20cc Gasser! (Data & Links 1st Post) - 12/22/2011 11:57 PM   
acdii


 

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Status: offline 		OK these last posts have been the best laugh I have had all week!

And no they had nothing whatsoever to do with the DLE20. 

We now return you to your regularly schedule forum discussion on the DLE20


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RE: NEW DLE 20cc Gasser! (Data & Links 1st Post) - 12/23/2011 4:20 AM   
raubold


 

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Status: offline 		maybe we get back to the topic, but lambo 1500 hp ????????? 15 years ago when i ran Top Alcohol i had 1800 horses on Keith Black 548 cid Hemi stage 3 with newberry combination supercharged on straight Alcohol with 30 lbs of bosst ?? must be miniature Horses in the Lambo since Italians are short folks too i guess.
DLE 20, dont worry about Ethanol in the gasoline mix it fly it, works just fine, no matter what pump you used.
my 2 cents here

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RE: NEW DLE 20cc Gasser! (Data & Links 1st Post) - 12/23/2011 5:55 AM   
tmaucher


 

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Status: offline 		The problem with the ethanol is it eats the silicone gaskets it the carb and the motor. It will make a walbro carb diaphram hard over time. Run all fuel out after you fly and there wont be any problems.

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RE: NEW DLE 20cc Gasser! (Data & Links 1st Post) - 12/23/2011 8:39 AM   
Jonde


 

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Status: offline 		Tmaucher is right about ethanol in gasoline.  Ethanol causes delamination of rubber, plastics, synthetic hoses, etc.  It is also a strong solvent and as it breaks down varous organic materials they go in to solution.  Some of these dissolved materials tend to settle out and form various gummy materials.  So, in any fuel tank, engine system like in a DLE 20cc engine in a model plane, fuel containing ethanol will attack the rubber, plastic and synthetic components over time.  Because ethanol is very hygroscopic, (holds water), it is also thought to form  acetic acid as a reaction product, which causes metal corrosion.   I worked on these problems, as a chemist, when they first went to an E85 type fuel in a big way in Brazil and experienced huge problems.

Despite my comments, I would not worry too much about our 10-15% ethanol containing gas.  I would recommend that you inspect your carburetor rubber/synthetic components and hoses closely at least once a year.  

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RE: NEW DLE 20cc Gasser! (Data & Links 1st Post) - 12/23/2011 1:49 PM   
FlatSpin


 

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Status: offline 		I had the very same questions about blended gasoline in my DLE 20 when I got into the world of gas engines this year. In case you want to try "clean gas", here is a link to search your state. In Colorado, there are only a few stations that still sell it at a regular gas station.

http://pure-gas.org/

I've been flying my DLE 20 on straight gas for about 8 months and have not has any issues with it. Great little engine.

Dave

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RE: NEW DLE 20cc Gasser! (Data & Links 1st Post) - 12/23/2011 2:00 PM   
acdii


 

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Status: offline 		oh just light a match, the ethanol will burn right off.  

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RE: NEW DLE 20cc Gasser! (Data & Links 1st Post) - 12/23/2011 3:06 PM   
w8ye



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quote:

ORIGINAL: acdii

oh just light a match, the ethanol will burn right off.  


AND SO WILL EVERYTHING ELSE



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RE: NEW DLE 20cc Gasser! (Data & Links 1st Post) - 12/23/2011 4:16 PM   
acdii


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: w8ye


quote:

ORIGINAL: acdii

oh just light a match, the ethanol will burn right off.  


AND SO WILL EVERYTHING ELSE





Well, no one said it was perfect! 



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RE: NEW DLE 20cc Gasser! (Data & Links 1st Post) - 12/23/2011 4:27 PM   
microdon2


 

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Status: offline 		A slightly related question - I've had plenty of crashes with my Nitro planes, and a few with my gassers. But I've never had a fire break out, even when the tank has been puntured. I'm guessing that's cause there were no real sparks nearby to ingnite the fumes (since the engine was stalled by then). Or could it be that Nitro is not as flammable as gas fumes? I've seen some nice crash-fires on Youtube, but those always involve jets, which, I guess, crash with much more force \ explosive power. Any thoughts? (btw - not that I'm LOOKING for fires, either. I'm past that stage...)

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RE: NEW DLE 20cc Gasser! (Data & Links 1st Post) - 12/23/2011 4:39 PM   
w8ye



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Status: offline 		Methanol does not have the same flammability as gasoline


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RE: NEW DLE 20cc Gasser! (Data & Links 1st Post) - 12/23/2011 5:34 PM   
captinjohn


 

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Status: offline 		Try this...pour a small amount of glow fuel on cement or hard packed dirt. Then with a long stick with a burning match...ignite the Glow fuel. It should ignite soft...compared too gas.  Be carefull, where and how you do this.   In bright daylite...acohol is hard to see burning!        Capt,n

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RE: NEW DLE 20cc Gasser! (Data & Links 1st Post) - 12/23/2011 6:00 PM   
acdii


 

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Status: offline 		Jet go boom because the engine is spitting fire out the back end, unlike a gas/glow engine that goes boom internally. Open Flame, Gas Fumes, BOOM!

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RE: NEW DLE 20cc Gasser! (Data & Links 1st Post) - 12/23/2011 9:07 PM   
Jonde


 

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Thanks for the great link to "clean gas" stations.  There are a few listed that are not too far from me.  Given a choice, I will use regular gas without any methonal added in my DLE 20cc.   

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