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RE: NEW DLE 20cc Gasser! (Data & Links 1st Post) - 11/25/2012 8:55 PM   
nomadmariner


 

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RE: NEW DLE 20cc Gasser! (Data & Links 1st Post) - 11/25/2012 8:56 PM   
microdon2


 

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RE: NEW DLE 20cc Gasser! (Data & Links 1st Post) - 11/26/2012 9:37 PM   
wesjon


 

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Status: offline 		 Hey guys, here's one for you. My engine has 1 gallon of fuel through it and I am battling to get it running properly. I have noticed that the low speed needle has a very noticeable bend in it! Is this normal and could it be this causing my reliable idle issues?

thanks
Wes


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RE: NEW DLE 20cc Gasser! (Data & Links 1st Post) - 11/26/2012 10:31 PM   
Ernie Misner



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Status: offline 		Pull that needle out and if it is definitely bent replace it ASAP. Yes, sure could be causing your UN reliable idle issues, even sucking air at the needle 0-ring.

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RE: NEW DLE 20cc Gasser! (Data & Links 1st Post) - 11/27/2012 4:31 AM   
saintcreed


 

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Status: offline 		Well guys I finally got another plane to put my DLE 20 after dumb thumbing the last Extra 260 into the ground . While setting it up and we all know about how the #4 ignition won't let it go right back to our idle rpm's for a few seconds - right. I've tried the richer lower needle as others have suggested, but not to much avail so....Tried something and it seems to be working at least on the ground and for about 12 practice landings tonight . What I've done after reading in one of the post and remembering exactly what he was talking about. I had experienced the same problem with my racing sleds (snowmobiles)...that by bumping the throttle after letting off would take the engine back to low idle immediately..with that in mind I set up on my Futaba 9c to do the same only with a switch rather than the throttle stick, which worked now and then for me at least..I used the trainer switch to be exact, with it being spring loaded, if one looses their train of thought for a split secong, just by letting go of the switch everything goes back to normal..I went in and to the engine idle window activated it, set the percentage at 10(which was just right for my engine set-up, yours might be more or less of that percetrage rate. Set it to be off when Switch F is in it's normal position, would be activated when holding the switch forward. ...by doing this bumping the switch forward for about the count of ONE moves the trottle servo more to the low or closed position causing the engine to decelerate more, by restricting the gas/air flow..seems to be working so far and I just recieved my new ignition today to replace the #4..might not need it now..will keep everone posted...If anyone here tries this let be know your results if you would please..

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RE: NEW DLE 20cc Gasser! (Data & Links 1st Post) - 11/27/2012 6:22 AM   
wesjon


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Ernie Misner

Pull that needle out and if it is definitely bent replace it ASAP. Yes, sure could be causing your UN reliable idle issues, even sucking air at the needle 0-ring.
.  

Thanks Ernie, also for spotting my typo!! Damn predictive text! Will pull the needle and upload a photo for you guys to see.

Cheers



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RE: NEW DLE 20cc Gasser! (Data & Links 1st Post) - 11/27/2012 2:31 PM   
ahicks


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: saintcreed

Well guys I finally got another plane to put my DLE 20 after dumb thumbing the last Extra 260 into the ground . While setting it up and we all know about how the #4 ignition won't let it go right back to our idle rpm's for a few seconds - right. I've tried the richer lower needle as others have suggested, but not to much avail so....Tried something and it seems to be working at least on the ground and for about 12 practice landings tonight . What I've done after reading in one of the post and remembering exactly what he was talking about. I had experienced the same problem with my racing sleds (snowmobiles)...that by bumping the throttle after letting off would take the engine back to low idle immediately..with that in mind I set up on my Futaba 9c to do the same only with a switch rather than the throttle stick, which worked now and then for me at least..I used the trainer switch to be exact, with it being spring loaded, if one looses their train of thought for a split secong, just by letting go of the switch everything goes back to normal..I went in and to the engine idle window activated it, set the percentage at 10(which was just right for my engine set-up, yours might be more or less of that percetrage rate. Set it to be off when Switch F is in it's normal position, would be activated when holding the switch forward. ...by doing this bumping the switch forward for about the count of ONE moves the trottle servo more to the low or closed position causing the engine to decelerate more, by restricting the gas/air flow..seems to be working so far and I just recieved my new ignition today to replace the #4..might not need it now..will keep everone posted...If anyone here tries this let be know your results if you would please..


Excellent reminder that the idle speed that you're trying to come down to often has as much to do with this problem as the mixture does. If the idle's set too high, you're going to get hung up trying to come down through that timing "step" that's somewhere around 2200 rpm. no matter the mixture! Your new ignition won't have that problem, but you can still get into the "idle hang" issue if too lean. Any of them will do that - as proven by your sled engine! You need to have your idle set for 1800 or so with the engine/carb hot! Easiest/most reliably set right after landing. -Al

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RE: NEW DLE 20cc Gasser! (Data & Links 1st Post) - 11/27/2012 4:59 PM   
sparky4lawndart



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Status: offline 		Gents... I'm a return noob to RC Warbirds and a first time gasser...

I have a DLE 20 in a BH FW190a and love it. starts easy... idles great... plenty of speed for low passes... sound awesome!

My problem (that even the engine guys are scratching their heads on) is after 8 or 9 minutes of half to 3/4 throttle flying the engine bogs down and cuts. Now I love deadstick practice as much as the next guy but I'd love to land one of these days with the engine running.

I don't think it's a mixture issue... idles great.. transitions to WOT easily... I've never touched any of the screws by the way. but after ahwile in the air you can hear the engine bog down dramatically and then cut after 5 or 6 seconds... no throttle response really.

one of the guys thought it was a fuel tank clunk issue... after taking apart the fuel cell (again) it was fine... someone offered it was a pressure issue but the bleed line is clear...

I think its a heat issue... but don't know how to fix it... there are no extra holes in the cowl except for the one for the exhaust pipe. Someone in the BH FW190a thread said that the builtin vents in the fuse would be enough... (1/2 inch wide and 2 1/2 tall on both sides of the fuse)

should i cut holes in the bottom back of the cowl near the fuse? someone mentioned blocking some of the front cowl (seems counter intuitive)...

as always, i appreciate any info you've got! thanks

BTW.. the melted spinner is the result of the professional assistance from the flightline... he was convinced he could simulate airflow with his starter

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RE: NEW DLE 20cc Gasser! (Data & Links 1st Post) - 11/27/2012 5:05 PM   
Ernie Misner



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Status: offline 		Pull the plug and inspect it immediately after one of those dead sticks. If it is whiteish instead of brown then you're on the right track of overheating for some reason. Any cowling would be suspect. Good news is that if that is the case someone can offer a fix for that.

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RE: NEW DLE 20cc Gasser! (Data & Links 1st Post) - 11/27/2012 5:19 PM  1 votes
ahicks


 

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Status: offline 		Pull and fly without the cowl? That should give you a clue regarding engine temp issues?

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RE: NEW DLE 20cc Gasser! (Data & Links 1st Post) - 11/27/2012 7:31 PM   
raptureboy


 

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Status: offline 		Your clearly overheating, been there done that and I can see from your pics that you have no baffling directing air to your head. see this site for excellent info on baffling  
http://www.prme.nl/forum/viewforum.php?f=18 Pe really knows his stuff and once you get the proper setup your problem should be solved. Take the cowl off and run it to see how it goes, and you will need to adjust the needles some after a while, you will be surprised how little you turn the needle to change from a lean run to cool run. Good luck and keep us posted on what happens.


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RE: NEW DLE 20cc Gasser! (Data & Links 1st Post) - 11/27/2012 8:28 PM   
Ernie Misner



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Status: offline 		Hopefully you haven't seized it up or scored the cylinder yet if you've been running good oil. It might be a candidate for a new ring though when you get it sorted out. Does the compression still feel good?

< Message edited by Ernie Misner -- 11/27/2012 10:25 PM >

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RE: NEW DLE 20cc Gasser! (Data & Links 1st Post) - 11/27/2012 10:19 PM   
Lifer


 

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Status: online 		I believe a lot would be improved if you blocked off all the openings in the front of the cowl except for the area directly in front of the cylinder. Additional openings on the bottom of the cowl would be the traditional next step.

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RE: NEW DLE 20cc Gasser! (Data & Links 1st Post) - 11/27/2012 10:36 PM   
shane55


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: sparky4lawndart
should i cut holes in the bottom back of the cowl near the fuse? someone mentioned blocking some of the front cowl (seems counter intuitive)... 


Baffling seems counter intuitive but it works because by blocking Airflow passing through sections of the cowl that are not in front of the Cylinder Head and Exhaust, The Air has to travel quicker through the open areas and You get better cooling.The Exit area for the Airflow should be sufficiently large also.


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RE: NEW DLE 20cc Gasser! (Data & Links 1st Post) - 11/28/2012 2:08 AM   
sparky4lawndart



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Status: offline 		I'm going to try the baffling (blocking off the cowl except a few spots in front of the cylinder head... I hope the 2.5 X 0.5 inch slots in the fuse on both sides of the cowl will be sufficient for letting the hot air out? Might have to buy a pyrometer this week (any reason to go to harbor freight is a good reason).

Flying without the cowl? didn't think of that... that's weird... seems logical but I'm gonna try the baffling first...

also.. the DLE has been swinging a 16X8 zoar... any thoughts on an APC 15.5X12 4blade... It was on sale and bought it... others have mentioned it in the thread but no real pro's and con's

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RE: NEW DLE 20cc Gasser! (Data & Links 1st Post) - 11/28/2012 2:16 AM   
rcguy59



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Status: offline 		Due to the air expanding as it absorbs heat from the engine, the cooling-air exit hole(s) must be larger than the inlet(s). 2-3x the area is usually recommended.


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RE: NEW DLE 20cc Gasser! (Data & Links 1st Post) - 11/28/2012 4:11 AM   
sparky4lawndart



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Status: offline 		here's the baffling i did... simple balsa sheet cut into pieces, painted black, glued in... I'll dress it up later...

I've also cut up the spinner and put the 4 blade prop on there.

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RE: NEW DLE 20cc Gasser! (Data & Links 1st Post) - 11/28/2012 5:08 AM   
w1nd6urfa



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Status: offline 		4-blade on a FW-190?

Apart from scale issues it will load up an already stressed engine. Stick to the 2-blade until you get the cooling issues sorted and once smooth and reliable get a nice 3-blade prop and paint it black.

Nice plane!

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RE: NEW DLE 20cc Gasser! (Data & Links 1st Post) - 11/28/2012 3:02 PM   
raptureboy


 

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Status: offline 		Your baffling looks good and I'm sure it will help. You can go even further by adding some pieces to create a more direct flow onto the head. Those spokes in the cowl look like they lend themselves to that really well. I agree on the 4 blade prop; too much load on the engine, I have found the 17x6 zoar is the sweet spot on this engine for good tourqe and rpm as was tested back in the begining of this thread. Taking the cowl off is just a way to test if your overheating. Real airplanes use all kinds of baffling to direct cooling air over the engine and it's not always true that you need to have a great big exit hole to solve the issue, it's more important to get air moving directly over the head and then right out the exit area. You can have a large exit area and still overheat because there is turbulence around the exit area that prevents the hot air from being drawn out. This can be solved by creating a small air dam in front of the exit area.


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RE: NEW DLE 20cc Gasser! (Data & Links 1st Post) - 11/29/2012 3:49 AM   
Leroy Gardner


 

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Status: offline 		I'm putting a DLE 20 in a bashed Tiger 60, also raising the engine 1" but ground clearance is the issue. Question, what is shortest prop at what pitch would be a good choice, I have a 14 x 10 and I have'nt bought the gear ( tail dragger ) yet, main gear that is as I need to know the height with 2 & 1/2" wheels. Thanks

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RE: NEW DLE 20cc Gasser! (Data & Links 1st Post) - 11/29/2012 3:54 AM   
w8ye



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RE: NEW DLE 20cc Gasser! (Data & Links 1st Post) - 11/29/2012 4:46 AM   
Ernie Misner



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Status: offline 		One person used main gear from a large UCanDo I think, nothing fancy just large size aluminum gear. With something like that and really big wheels I don't think you'd have to change the engine mount location. For example I put a Saito 125 on a 60 size Ultra Stick. Just by going to 3 1/2 or 4 inch lightweight foam Dave Brown wheels I was able to run a 16" prop easily on that big Saito. I am not happy with small high pitch props usually; they don't fit my flying style, but maybe yours? but I hate the way they don't want to slow down for landings either.

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RE: NEW DLE 20cc Gasser! (Data & Links 1st Post) - 11/29/2012 12:45 PM  1 votes
ahicks


 

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Status: offline 		I think I would go with a 3 blade prop? That's an easy way to gain ground clearance. I know a few guys are running them successfully, but not size/pitch.

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RE: NEW DLE 20cc Gasser! (Data & Links 1st Post) - 11/29/2012 12:58 PM   
RiverLarry


 

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RE: NEW DLE 20cc Gasser! (Data & Links 1st Post) - 11/29/2012 6:35 PM   
Lifer


 

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Status: online 		A DLE 20 will turn the MA 16x8x3 and the 15x7x3 quite well. Not the most efficient props, but they will do the job.

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