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RE: NEW DLE 20cc Gasser! (Data & Links 1st Post) - 10/31/2011 8:01 PM   
SpinnerRow



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ORIGINAL: a1pcfixer
Hopefully you'll find a better combo of prop, lube mix ratio, flying style, so that your next one lasts longer.

Flying style won't change (WOT or Bust!) so I need to change something else.

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RE: NEW DLE 20cc Gasser! (Data & Links 1st Post) - 10/31/2011 8:04 PM   
SpinnerRow



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RE: NEW DLE 20cc Gasser! (Data & Links 1st Post) - 10/31/2011 8:08 PM   
Joespeeder


 

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Status: offline 		Hey RBean,

MAS Prop emailed me a follow up today on our inquiry to the 16x8x3 redesign question.

Here is the email copy and pasted to this post.


"Joe,

Ok, it sounds to me like the 16x8 3-blade with the "4020T" is a prior production model, and the 41 versus 40 refers to diameter in centimeters. We felt for safety sake the high torque gas engines needed a beefed up transition area. We have to balance safety and performance, as you can understand. That said, the 16x8 3-blade generally does well with the DLE20. An alternative is a 16x10.

Another change with the new 16x8x3 was strictly for pitch measurement. Because of our design, the back of the prop blade doesn't sit flat a prop gauge and people thought we were underpitched because of is. We had a slight re-design so that the pitch could be accurately read.

I hope this gives you the info you need. "


I thanked Teresa for her followup and insight. However, your test results suggest a definite change in the way the 16x8x3 performs on the DLE-20.

I think I still have an older MAS 16x8x3. I will have to dig it out and protect it till needed.

A few options in the 16 inch 3 blade variety can be found here.

http://www.valleyviewrc.com/estore/xoar-three-blade-propeller-16x8.html

http://www.v-eastonline.com/categories/Graupner-Prop-Shop/Super-Nylon-three-blade-props/

http://magnumrc.com/3-blade-wwii-warbird-propeller-16x8-p-245.html

http://www.menz-prop.de/english.htm

Joe




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RE: NEW DLE 20cc Gasser! (Data & Links 1st Post) - 10/31/2011 8:56 PM   
microdon2


 

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Status: offline 		SpinnerRow - do you really run WOT? I rarely do - usually run about 2/3, then might go WOT for a speed pass, but then back off. Which is another reason I was surprised mine broke, like yours did. Maybe I was running too lean, or maybe this is just a defective part, and you and I were some of the unlucky ones. Either way, TH replaced the engine and I haven't had that problem again.

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RE: NEW DLE 20cc Gasser! (Data & Links 1st Post) - 10/31/2011 9:17 PM   
SpinnerRow



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quote:

ORIGINAL: microdon2

SpinnerRow - do you really run WOT? I rarely do - usually run about 2/3, then might go WOT for a speed pass, but then back off. Which is another reason I was surprised mine broke, like yours did. Maybe I was running too lean, or maybe this is just a defective part, and you and I were some of the unlucky ones. Either way, TH replaced the engine and I haven't had that problem again.

It's a P-51 - I run WOT and might drop it "some" to land.

I also have a DLE 20 in a GP PT-17 with a Vess 17x6. It putts around on way less than half throttle for 20 minutes. An occasional WOT on an upline to do a roll, split S or hammerhead. I'm too afraid the plane would come apart on a WOT flat and level run.


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RE: NEW DLE 20cc Gasser! (Data & Links 1st Post) - 11/1/2011 12:40 AM   
RBean


 

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Thanks for forwarding the e-mail re M/A prop. Does not really answer my concerns. Next good weather I'll put the new 16-8-3 in a DLE 20 which is broken in and see what the result is in the air. I'll report here. All the other props you listed are good but expensive compaired to Master Airscrew.

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RE: NEW DLE 20cc Gasser! (Data & Links 1st Post) - 11/6/2011 12:04 PM   
gazzazh



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Status: offline 		Hi All,

I am having a lot of issues with my 30cc dle engine and EMI...
I am using an AR7000 RX and Dx7 .. I am getting major interference.. my servos are moving on their own..
how many ferret rings do i need.. or what should i look for to get this problem solved.

Cheers and thanks a million

Happy Landings..

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RE: NEW DLE 20cc Gasser! (Data & Links 1st Post) - 11/6/2011 3:22 PM   
karolh


 

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Status: offline 		If you are running the engine with the stock spark plug replace it with an NGK CM-6 plug, as the stock plugs are known to sometimes give interference and or running problems. Also ensure that the spark plug cap is pushed all the way down on the plug and over the hex section. HTH.

Karol

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RE: NEW DLE 20cc Gasser! (Data & Links 1st Post) - 11/6/2011 3:38 PM   
gazzazh



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Status: offline 		Thanks.. will change plug, and will also wrap ignition in tin foil, shiny side facing in as well as place some ferret rings.. will keep u updated ,,cheers


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RE: NEW DLE 20cc Gasser! (Data & Links 1st Post) - 11/6/2011 3:54 PM   
karolh


 

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Status: offline 		Try my suggestions first before using the foil or f/rings.

Karol

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RE: NEW DLE 20cc Gasser! (Data & Links 1st Post) - 11/6/2011 4:30 PM   
TimBle


 

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I tried a APC 168 on my DLE20 in the Spot On today.
WINNER  excellent vertical performance for pattern

Much better than the Xoar 16x8.
Still waiting for some VEss17x6 props to arrive.
I may try the APC 17x6 in the mean time.



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RE: NEW DLE 20cc Gasser! (Data & Links 1st Post) - 11/6/2011 7:41 PM   
gazzazh



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Status: offline 		OK.. Thanks will do and will keep u updated . cheers


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RE: NEW DLE 20cc Gasser! (Data & Links 1st Post) - 11/6/2011 10:09 PM   
FOOPED


 

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Status: offline 		Gazzagzh, Process of elemination. First chcnge the plug and make sure the plug cap is on all the way . It has to cover the plug hex. Next thing if not already checked is your battery switches. plug bat stright into receiver and also ignition moduel. Next step if you still have problem is start unpluging servoes one at a time. Be sure your battieres are good befour you start and your receiver is a good one. I am assuming you are using spectrum 2.4 system.

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RE: NEW DLE 20cc Gasser! (Data & Links 1st Post) - 11/6/2011 10:11 PM   
a1pcfixer



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quote:

ORIGINAL: TimBle

I tried a APC 168 on my DLE20 in the Spot On today.
WINNER  excellent vertical performance for pattern

Much better than the Xoar 16x8.
Still waiting for some VEss17x6 props to arrive.
I may try the APC 17x6 in the mean time.




Are we back on subject (DLE20) again?

Look at the post #1 and in the [Prop Data] area.

During the first few months this DLE20 was out, many of us found the Vess 17 x 6 (Sport) to be the best overall for performance,
with the Xoar 17 x 6 almost as good. Both do a great job of putting this DLE20 into it's torque curve, withOUT going into
the dangerous high rpm's.

Other props show higher rpm's, but the thrust is down a wee bit.

I tried a Vess 18 x 6 and spool-up seemed a wee bit slower than the 17 x 6's.

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RE: NEW DLE 20cc Gasser! (Data & Links 1st Post) - 11/7/2011 2:16 AM   
microdon2


 

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Status: offline 		apc1fixer - Can we delineate prop performance with flying style in mind? In other words, if someone's looking for 3D or vertical I imagine a larger prop with less pitch. For performance \ speed, smaller diameter and higher pitch, right? Just wondering when you say a Vess 17x6 is best for overall performance, are you thinking more 3D \ vertical?

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RE: NEW DLE 20cc Gasser! (Data & Links 1st Post) - 11/7/2011 3:00 AM   
a1pcfixer



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Status: offline 		Somewhat, yes. But this mighty little gasser's torque curve seem to peak around abouts 8600rpm, give or take a few.
As such, pulling power/thrust is best up to about that point, after which it's wasting energy spinning useless rpm's.

If ya want/need rpm's, drop down to a 16 x8, or a 15 x 10 3-blade.
But bear in mind what Jody's noted in that it'll unload about 800-1200 rpm in flight,
so keep your static thrust rpm's down, and don't blow it up.

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RE: NEW DLE 20cc Gasser! (Data & Links 1st Post) - 11/7/2011 3:02 AM   
captinjohn


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SpinnerRow


quote:

ORIGINAL: microdon2

Spinner - Same thing happened to me last summer. No idea why. I believe it's happened to others on this thread (or somewhere I read it). But did your crankcase break, too? Looks that way. That didn't happen in my case. The good news is you're covered under warranty for 2 years.

The bearing cage rolls smoothly on the pin with the rod on it. Not sure what happened. It spins about 8700-8800 RPM on the ground with the 15x10 prop I run on it. I bought it from Tower, so I'll have to wait to see what they say.

My guess is the crank pin is not made with high quality metal found in for example...a Echo chainsaw.   Not  very many crank pins break in most engines.

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RE: NEW DLE 20cc Gasser! (Data & Links 1st Post) - 11/7/2011 3:19 AM   
a1pcfixer



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My guess is the crank pin is not made with high quality metal found in for example...a Echo chainsaw.   Not  very many crank pins break in most engines.


More likely 1018 or 1117 (low carbon steel) with a quickie case hardening on the bearing surface.
Now add in a lack of adequete lube, high rpm's generating excessive heat in that rotational mass (crank pin area),
and you get a roller cage bearing that toasts that heat treated pin changing it's hardness.

At some point a few of those little pin say I'm outta here!

Design flaw.....I doubt it.
Application misuse....more likely.

And remember, lawn care items such as you mentioned have a proper designed cooling setup that our uses lack.

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RE: NEW DLE 20cc Gasser! (Data & Links 1st Post) - 11/7/2011 6:35 AM   
TimBle


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: a1pcfixer


quote:

ORIGINAL: TimBle

I tried a APC 168 on my DLE20 in the Spot On today.
WINNER  excellent vertical performance for pattern

Much better than the Xoar 16x8.
Still waiting for some VEss17x6 props to arrive.
I may try the APC 17x6 in the mean time.




Are we back on subject (DLE20) again?

Look at the post #1 and in the [Prop Data] area.

During the first few months this DLE20 was out, many of us found the Vess 17 x 6 (Sport) to be the best overall for performance,
with the Xoar 17 x 6 almost as good. Both do a great job of putting this DLE20 into it's torque curve, withOUT going into
the dangerous high rpm's.

Other props show higher rpm's, but the thrust is down a wee bit.

I tried a Vess 18 x 6 and spool-up seemed a wee bit slower than the 17 x 6's.



Post #1 is a great resource for a starting point wrt finding an ideal prop ON A PLANE. There ais frontal area and weight considerations as well as application.
Thus far tried the
XOAR/JXF 16x8, 16x10, 17x6, 17x8,
APC 16X7 and 16x8

of the lot the APC 16x8 flies the Spot on best.

Results may vary from plane to plane and pilot to pilot wrt flight performance.

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RE: NEW DLE 20cc Gasser! (Data & Links 1st Post) - 11/7/2011 9:51 AM   
gazzazh



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ORIGINAL: FOOPED

Gazzagzh, Process of elemination. First chcnge the plug and make sure the plug cap is on all the way . It has to cover the plug hex. Next thing if not already checked is your battery switches. plug bat stright into receiver and also ignition moduel. Next step if you still have problem is start unpluging servoes one at a time. Be sure your battieres are good befour you start and your receiver is a good one. I am assuming you are using spectrum 2.4 system.



Thanks for all the info.. will work on it.. and will keep you posted.. Hopefully its just the plug.. i am keeping my fingers crossed...
Cheers


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RE: NEW DLE 20cc Gasser! (Data & Links 1st Post) - 11/7/2011 4:14 PM   
acdii


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SpinnerRow


quote:

ORIGINAL: microdon2

SpinnerRow - do you really run WOT? I rarely do - usually run about 2/3, then might go WOT for a speed pass, but then back off. Which is another reason I was surprised mine broke, like yours did. Maybe I was running too lean, or maybe this is just a defective part, and you and I were some of the unlucky ones. Either way, TH replaced the engine and I haven't had that problem again.

It's a P-51 - I run WOT and might drop it "some" to land.

I also have a DLE 20 in a GP PT-17 with a Vess 17x6. It putts around on way less than half throttle for 20 minutes. An occasional WOT on an upline to do a roll, split S or hammerhead. I'm too afraid the plane would come apart on a WOT flat and level run.



Is your P-51 about the same as a TF P-51 Gold Edition?  I am tring to determine if this will work for my plane.



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RE: NEW DLE 20cc Gasser! (Data & Links 1st Post) - 11/7/2011 4:34 PM   
SpinnerRow



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ORIGINAL: acdii
Is your P-51 about the same as a TF P-51 Gold Edition?  I am tring to determine if this will work for my plane.


The .60 size, yes.

Airborne Models - World Models Blue Nose P-51

Got a new motor on the front of it. Anyone know of a 15x10 besides the master air screw K-Series or the ACP that I'm currently running? I'd like to stick with a 15x10 but need something that will load it up a bit more than a Pattern APC 15x10. I might try an APC 14x12 but I'm not sure it would load it up any better than the 15x10

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RE: NEW DLE 20cc Gasser! (Data & Links 1st Post) - 11/7/2011 11:31 PM   
aa2dd


 

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My Big Stick 60 setup is:

servos in rear. 10 oz fuel tank on cg, ignition and ignition battery directly behind firewall. Installed a hatch cover behind firewall so i have access to ignition/battery. DL 20 ENGINE WITH SLIGHT RIGHT THRUST. and about 3 or so oz weight on tail. prop 16x8 presently, but prefer 17x6. tires are dave brown lites and diameter is 6"! they look neat and work better than neat! and keep prop out of the ground
Performance is awe inspiring! straight up, rolling, all the way, as far as you wnat to go. very stable and fun plane to play with. Installed triangle stock behind firewall for strength, and pinned firewall on both sides and bottom. Dont know how long it will hold together. has about two or three gallons so far, and still going ok. With this setup, you need to be a throttle hound! dont think you wnat to fly with the hammer down all the time!

have fun

Bruce
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RE: NEW DLE 20cc Gasser! (Data & Links 1st Post) - 11/8/2011 8:51 PM   
DaleD


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: aa2dd
My Big Stick 60 setup is:

servos in rear. 10 oz fuel tank on cg, ignition and ignition battery directly behind firewall. Installed a hatch cover behind firewall so i have access to ignition/battery. DL 20 ENGINE WITH SLIGHT RIGHT THRUST. and about 3 or so oz weight on tail. prop 16x8 presently, but prefer 17x6. tires are dave brown lites and diameter is 6"! they look neat and work better than neat! and keep prop out of the ground
Performance is awe inspiring! straight up, rolling, all the way, as far as you wnat to go. very stable and fun plane to play with. Installed triangle stock behind firewall for strength, and pinned firewall on both sides and bottom. Dont know how long it will hold together. has about two or three gallons so far, and still going ok. With this setup, you need to be a throttle hound! dont think you wnat to fly with the hammer down all the time!


Bruce, would love to see a few pictures of your stick.

Thanks

DaleD

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RE: NEW DLE 20cc Gasser! (Data & Links 1st Post) - 11/10/2011 8:02 PM   
jsallade


 

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Status: offline 		No a 14x12 will load it up less than a 15x10 within the same brand and line/series of props. To load it up more and go down to a 14 you need to find a 14x14... If they exsist, I've never seen one.

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