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RE: Seidel 7-70 radial: Help me decide! - 11/15/2012 3:59 PM   
abufletcher



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Status: offline 		Having the connections sticking UP out of the battery seems like it would make installation more difficult.

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RE: Seidel 7-70 radial: Help me decide! - 11/15/2012 4:06 PM   
rcten



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Status: online 		It could depending on your installation,but I don't for see this as an issue, the price is right and they fit the bill.

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RE: Seidel 7-70 radial: Help me decide! - 11/15/2012 4:41 PM   
abufletcher



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Status: offline 		It's certainly the right price! In fact, I just ordered one, and because I had the window open for a while I was actually given a $2 discount on the item! Total shipped to Japan was $24. Even if this might not be optimal for some eventual installation, it'll get me going now!

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RE: Seidel 7-70 radial: Help me decide! - 11/15/2012 4:49 PM   
RBACONS


 

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Status: offline 		The 1.2V single cell battery is an F-Cell. Only $16 for 7000 mah. A little heavy at 8 oz but they work well for the load put on them by 7 glow plugs.
http://store.batteriesamerica.com/search.aspx?find=f-cell

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RE: Seidel 7-70 radial: Help me decide! - 11/15/2012 4:57 PM   
abufletcher



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Status: offline 		The 1.2V batteries just don't cut it for 7 glow plugs. I've tried. I bought a couple 2V 5000mAh lead batteries some time ago and they were enough to get the engine running. But my clubmates and I tried several different 1.2V batteries with no luck.

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RE: Seidel 7-70 radial: Help me decide! - 11/15/2012 5:01 PM   
RBACONS


 

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Status: offline 		Abufletcher,

Not sure what the difference is but my buddy's 2 siedel's have been run that way for the past 15 years or so.

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RE: Seidel 7-70 radial: Help me decide! - 11/15/2012 5:05 PM   
abufletcher



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Status: offline 		It could be that the glow cables on the UMS/Seidel are not as efficient those your buddy is using. Maybe some of the power is getting lost along the way. But we tried ALL kinds of combinations and the engine was just dead as a doorknob. But as soon as I tried with the 2V batteries it started on the first flip.

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RE: Seidel 7-70 radial: Help me decide! - 11/16/2012 8:42 AM   
abufletcher



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Status: offline 		Question: The black ground wire that came with the UMS/Seidel, and which is grounded to the motor mount, actually has two wires. Why two wires when there's only a spot for one wire on the GLOW BALANCER? I've never heard of two ground wires before.

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RE: Seidel 7-70 radial: Help me decide! - 11/16/2012 1:54 PM   
abufletcher



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Status: offline 		Here's the whole kit 'n kaboodle for the on-board glow system...minus the 3.7V 5000mAh LIPO glow battery and the connection for the black ground wire. Quite a tangled mess at the moment. Yeah, I still don't get why the black has two wires, when you can only put one in the BALANCER.

The LED is a status light.

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RE: Seidel 7-70 radial: Help me decide! - 11/16/2012 2:49 PM   
rcten



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Status: online 		2 wires less resistances more current flow. You might consider removing the plug from the end of the black wires, twist the two ends together and solder them as one.

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RE: Seidel 7-70 radial: Help me decide! - 11/16/2012 3:14 PM   
abufletcher



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Status: offline 		OK. I guess it was working before with two wires. I twisted the wires together as you suggested and soldered into a connector for the GLOW BALANCER.

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RE: Seidel 7-70 radial: Help me decide! - 11/16/2012 3:26 PM   
rcten



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Status: online 		Now you got it, innovation the mother of all inventions!

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RE: Seidel 7-70 radial: Help me decide! - 11/16/2012 3:44 PM   
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Status: offline 		Don, one of my buds is now running his Horizon/Seidel/USM radial. A couple of things he told me last night. One, once the engine fires you dont need the glow any longer. It just keeps running and running. Two, his needle needed to be rather rich at high speed or else the engine wouldn't want to run. So he calls Horizon asking about it. The man he talked with said that there's a pressure tap on the collector ring for the fuel tank, use it. So he did. Once that was done he had to lean the engine. Now, leaned etc its perfect! Very fuel miserly. He's using a 24 oz tank and that's plenty.

One more thing, he had to use heavy duty loc-tite when installing the collector ring or the nuts would vibrate lose.



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RE: Seidel 7-70 radial: Help me decide! - 11/16/2012 3:57 PM   
abufletcher



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Status: offline 		Based on my limited experience running my UMS/Seidel (it's got about an hour of run time so far), this is what I've seen. First, even if the engine is running and even if it sounds good, the measured temp of the lower cylinders can be much lower, indicating that they aren't firing...or aren't firing efficiently. In fact, it's perfectly possible for these radials to run on 5-6 cylinders...but you're losing power.

With the battery connected I was able to get it to idle down to 900rpms!!! Without the battery is would easily idle at 1800. Top end about 5600. And, yeah, the fuel pressure has to be right. Good tip on the locktite for the ring collector. On the other hand, given how hard it is to install, it's certainly not going to be falling off easily!

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RE: Seidel 7-70 radial: Help me decide! - 11/18/2012 2:24 AM   
chasrb



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Status: offline 		looks like the microsens 7 . Same thing I have. I have a 3800 NIMH to fire it up, but it is not working well. Think I'll go back to NiCd of LiPo.

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RE: Seidel 7-70 radial: Help me decide! - 11/18/2012 4:02 AM   
abufletcher



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Status: offline 		Yes, it's the Microsens GLOW 7 LP together with the Microsens GLOW BALANCER. What's the problem you're having with the NiMH pack? I assume this is a 3.7V pack.

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RE: Seidel 7-70 radial: Help me decide! - 12/8/2012 8:45 AM   
abufletcher



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Status: offline 		My attempt to start my Seidel with the Microsens system installed was a complete and utter failure. An hour in the icy winds setting up, running through the Microsen "automatic programming mode" procedure, fueling and readying the engine, and lots of fruitless prop flipping produce not so much as hint of a sputter. In this respect, it was a complete (and freezing) failure.

On the plus side, I suppose I've gotten one more failure out of the way of some unspecified number of required failures before it roars to life on the first flick. And I guess I got to try the Microsen system out for the first time and the power seems to be flowing through it correctly. For example, the status light seemed to operate correctly. And during the setup, I could see the coil in the glow plug glowing. So power is reaching the plugs. And based on the status light, power appears to be on from the the idle to the half throttle position and off after that.

I'm wondering if once again the problem isn't with the fuel tank and/or fuel delivery. This is my Achille's heel with engine setup. But then the engine has started before with this same setup. All I can do is double check everything, think about what I saw today, and head back out into the freezing cold tomorrow.

< Message edited by abufletcher -- 12/8/2012 11:09 AM >

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RE: Seidel 7-70 radial: Help me decide! - 12/8/2012 10:54 AM   
RBACONS


 

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Status: offline 		Abufletcher,

One possible thing to look at is the diameter of the feed lines to the carb. My friend always ran a larger diameter brass tube and fuel line (one step up from standard) from the carb to the clunk in order to get sufficient fuel feed to keep the engine happy.

And the struggles your having with the Microsens is part of the reason he makes his own glow driver with just a servo in the loop. With the F-Cell, you know your getting sufficient amps to drive the 7 plugs and with just a servo in the loop to control juice to the plugs, there's no question as to whether the plugs are getting power and at the right time. May not be as efficient with the battery capacity as the Microsens but its simple, inexpensive, less to fail, and you know what the power circuit is doing at all times.

BobH is correct that you should generally only need to light the plugs for start up. On rare occasion you might drop a cylinder (which you can hear or sense the power loss) and need to re-activate the glow driver.



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RE: Seidel 7-70 radial: Help me decide! - 12/8/2012 11:48 AM   
abufletcher



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Status: offline 		It's so hard to know what's wrong when you can't isolate the elements. I'd like to be able to just connect a battery to the glow plugs and then try starting the engine. But that wasn't working before and I assumed it was because of insufficient glow power. So now I've got the stronger 3.7V battery...but that needs to be regulated through the glow system.

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RE: Seidel 7-70 radial: Help me decide! - 12/8/2012 12:11 PM   
abufletcher



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Status: offline 		Just found this little "gem" at the end of the German version of the Seidel manual...which is not contained in the English version that comes with the UMS Seidel:

ATTENTION:

"If the engine is fitted with a ring collector exhaust, it should ONLY be started with an electric starter.

Why?

If during hand starting, the engine floods and the unburnt fuel/air mixture collects in the ring, there is a danger that the motor might start and run backwards. The engine would then go directly to its highest RPM and can't be throttled back. This uncontrollable situation can lead to serious injuries."



My engine is fitted with a collector ring...and today I was hand-starting it. Of course, the engine can still be stopped by pinching the fuel tube.

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RE: Seidel 7-70 radial: Help me decide! - 12/8/2012 12:33 PM   
abufletcher



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Status: offline 		Here's what I do know:

1) The engine has started and run for extended periods numerous times in the past with this same fuel tank setup.

2) The engine would not start with any of the 1.5V batteries we tried.

3. Then engine did start with a 2V lead battery (connected with simple alligator clips).

4. During today's attempts there was "medium" glow while doing the adjustment process on the GLOW-LP7.

5. The Microsens status-light was quickly flashing red (as it should be) signalling that the unit was in start mode.

6. I did not see a green light flash at the beginning of the adjustment process as per the instructions...

7. ...but the rest of the procedure seem to go as described in the instructions.



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RE: Seidel 7-70 radial: Help me decide! - 12/8/2012 4:31 PM   
TFF


 

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Status: offline 		More of a keep fingers away announcement. Also advancing the throttle will kill the engine if backwards. It cant stay self sustained long because the cam timing is not opening and closing in the correct order. Really cold and glow fuel can be a problem. I always use a starter when it is cold. Use to use lighter fluid down the carb when it was really cold and finger starting; a good starter stopped that. Also when you stored the engine was the fuel left in the carb. The needle/ spraybar can be gummed up .

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RE: Seidel 7-70 radial: Help me decide! - 12/9/2012 3:16 AM   
abufletcher



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Status: offline 		TFF, thanks for the further suggestions. I tried again today, amid light snow-flurries, again with no success. I checked to see that one of the glow plugs was lighting when the Microsens system was in Start Mode (quickly flashing red light) and it was, albeit a bit weaker than usual. I may need to redo the Automatic Programming (with the jumper) again. As for electric starting, my 12V battery had run down a bit and didn't provide enough umph on the starter. I tried priming the carb with a bit of fuel (as recommended in the manual) and everything seemed suitably "wet" (but not flooded).

Maybe it was just too frickin' cold.

How would I check the spray bar? And if it is "gummed up" what should I do about that?

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RE: Seidel 7-70 radial: Help me decide! - 12/9/2012 6:39 AM   
TFF


 

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Status: offline 		Taking out the needle valve and squirting something like denatured alcohol, auto carb cleaner, or maybe glow fuel; something to de solve the old fuel. What kind of volt regulator are you using? It might be controlling the volts fine but it might not be letting the amps through. I would get your starter up to speed until you get to know the engine better.

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RE: Seidel 7-70 radial: Help me decide! - 12/9/2012 12:42 PM   
Pull Up Now!



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Status: offline 		Time for basics. Use fuel line you can see thru. Disconnect the fuel line and lift it up in the air to get all fuel back into the tank. Reconnect it to the inlet barb. Then open the throttle with glo power off, place your finger over the venturi. Turn the prop by hand and see if you draw fuel out of the tank, into the line, and all the way up to the carb. If you don't, slowly back out the needle valve screw until you just start drawing fuel into the carb. Another trick, if you're using an electric starter, is to crank it while briefly placing a finger over the exhaust ring outlet.

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