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RE: Seidel 7-70 radial: Help me decide! - 12/18/2012 8:58 PM   
Mein Duff



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Status: offline 		Guys... I have somehow managed to slightly strip a thread or two on a glo plug insert to the head of my Seidel 7 Cyl. ( this is the original German Seidel) .

Does anybody know the best way to fix this? or anybody I can send the head to for repair?.. I'm not even sure what the thread count and depth ..
is on glo plugs and I certainly don't want to make matters worse by monkeying around with it....


any suggestions?


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RE: Seidel 7-70 radial: Help me decide! - 12/18/2012 9:54 PM   
BobH


 

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Status: offline 		If I were you I'd contact Horizon Hobby. Since they are the importer of the similar engines. They should be able to help you.

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RE: Seidel 7-70 radial: Help me decide! - 12/18/2012 9:54 PM   
rcten



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Status: offline 		The standard glow plug thread is 1/4x32, you might try a thread tap to clean up the thread if it isn't to bad, if not then a heli coil may have to be inserted. This will have to be done by someone with machinist ability. Clarence Lee dose this type of repair.

Hope this helps.
RCTen

< Message edited by rcten -- 12/19/2012 12:11 AM >

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RE: Seidel 7-70 radial: Help me decide! - 12/18/2012 11:43 PM   
Pull Up Now!



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Status: offline 		You can get the 1/4-32 tap at some hobby shops. I have two of them. Before I bought the taps, I used to just use a dremel tool with one of those ultra-thin abrasive cutoff wheels and cut 4 slots right across the threads of a glow plug. You're creating a makeshift tap, basically.

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RE: Seidel 7-70 radial: Help me decide! - 12/18/2012 11:55 PM   
Mein Duff



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Status: offline 		Thanks Guys... I found the 14 / 32 thread cutter at Horizon Hobby... . I imagine I will have to remove the head and start from the inside out.

This would make sure I'm going straight in to begin with and avoid any debris from falling into the cylinder head.
If I were to try it with the head still on I may get it straight but don't want to chance it.

Thanks for all your advise and tips gents, very helpful indeed.

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RE: Seidel 7-70 radial: Help me decide! - 12/19/2012 2:38 AM   
abufletcher



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ORIGINAL: Mein Duff
Thanks Guys... I found the 14 / 32 thread cutter at Horizon Hobby... . I imagine I will have to remove the head and start from the inside out.


That sounds like a nightmare to me. Removing one of the heads would, I assume, also mean removing one of the pistons...and the connecting rods...and on and on. I imagine little parts laying all over the workbench...most likely never again to find their way back into my engine.

If you're only talking about the first couple of threads, I think I'd just try cleaning up those threads with the tap using gentle quarter turns. It may be that only a very small section of the thread is damaged and with minimal use of the tap you can clear those damaged areas. Go in a quarter turn, then back out, then back in, then back out.

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RE: Seidel 7-70 radial: Help me decide! - 12/19/2012 3:36 AM   
Spuetz



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Status: offline 		 Actually it is no problem at all. You don't have to remove pistons or other parts. Just take the cylinder off. It'll expose the piston. Then, when you put it back on you'll have to squeeze the piston rings together. That can be a bit tricky, but manageable. The one thing one needs to know is tha the piston rings are very hard. so they break like glass. not a problem when you squeeze them together, but should you try and take them off they will most probably break. I've just replaced the piston rings on my st 770 since I was replacing the bolts that hold the cylinder to the crank case. Thought I might as well take the cylinder off and check for corrosion. Turns out the inside of this old st 770 is clean as can be. While I had it off I replaced the rings... 
Cheers Martin

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RE: Seidel 7-70 radial: Help me decide! - 12/19/2012 12:31 PM   
Pull Up Now!



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Status: offline 		I've done this without removing the cylinder at all. Most of the aluminum chips will be captured by the flutes in the tap (use light oil to make it sticky). Do it with that cylinder at TDC, with both valves closed. Afger tapping, use WD-40, or any cleaner with one of those red thin spray tubes to flush out the cylinder thoroughly.

The main danger to this quicky method is the first few threads that are damaged can prevent the threads on the tap from getting in phase with the existing good threads deeper down in the hole. This can be made much riskier by a tap that lacks sufficient lead-in threads, like a bottoming tap. But, if your tap has a gradual taper at the tip, this job is quite doable. Don't use a tap handle because the extra weight will prevent the hand "feel" required to make sure the tap is lined up straight.

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RE: Seidel 7-70 radial: Help me decide! - 12/19/2012 3:51 PM   
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Status: offline 		Back in the say when i was an engine guru we used ring compressor when fitting pistons with rings into the cylinder. For a Piston of this size you can make one easily. Just fashion a metal strap that is roughly the same size as the piston. It will be about 3/4 of the entire diameter of the piston. Bend the ends of the strap outwards to fashon two small tabs that you can squeez.

The idea is to compress the rings via this tool. Then keep them compressed as you slip the cylinder over the rings. After that you're home free.

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RE: Seidel 7-70 radial: Help me decide! - 12/19/2012 4:08 PM   
abufletcher



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RE: Seidel 7-70 radial: Help me decide! - 12/19/2012 4:14 PM   
BobH


 

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Status: offline 		Some of the finished parts that will house my Seidel/USM Radial. I have yet to start it! lol

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RE: Seidel 7-70 radial: Help me decide! - 12/19/2012 4:24 PM   
abufletcher



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Status: offline 		Sweet! But if I were you, I'd start getting to know the engine on a test stand right away! It's not a "difficult" engine, but the start procedure DOES take some learning. It's still a long time off before I'll get my Seidel in the air. At this point, this is as far as I've gotten.

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< Message edited by abufletcher -- 12/20/2012 12:44 AM >

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RE: Seidel 7-70 radial: Help me decide! - 12/19/2012 5:29 PM   
invertmast


 

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Status: offline 		Bob got some tips on operating the seidel from me first hand when he saw mine on my FW190. No need to put the thing on a test stand to learn it. Its essentially just like any other motor, with the exception that it takes a few seconds for the engine to react to mixture adjustments.

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RE: Seidel 7-70 radial: Help me decide! - 12/19/2012 5:33 PM   
abufletcher



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Status: offline 		That hasn't been my experience. One the other hand, Bob's an Engine Guru and I'm just an English Teacher.

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RE: Seidel 7-70 radial: Help me decide! - 12/19/2012 5:47 PM   
BobH


 

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Status: offline 		Don yep I way ahead of you.. mostly.
Thomas is right. I watched him in action. He has his running perfect!! He's a Stud.. er Star!.. I can call him in case of emergiencies! LOL


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RE: Seidel 7-70 radial: Help me decide! - 12/19/2012 7:58 PM   
Pull Up Now!



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ORIGINAL: abufletcher

It is my sincere hope never to see the inside of an engine!

you just haven't nosed in a plane hard enough yet.

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RE: Seidel 7-70 radial: Help me decide! - 12/20/2012 12:06 AM   
abufletcher



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Thomas is right. I watched him in action. He has his running perfect!! He's a Stud.. er Star!.. I can call him in case of emergiencies! LOL


Just make sure you build a system for priming the engine into your model. Are you you going to use an onboard glow system?

< Message edited by abufletcher -- 12/20/2012 12:51 AM >

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RE: Seidel 7-70 radial: Help me decide! - 12/20/2012 12:18 AM   
Mein Duff



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Status: offline 		Abu, Your 1 1/2 strutter looks fine and solid so far...you've actually mad some good progress...don't know where you find the time for one beauty after the other.....

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RE: Seidel 7-70 radial: Help me decide! - 12/20/2012 12:51 AM   
abufletcher



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Status: offline 		BTW, for guys who flown the Seidel...or any other large radial engines...did you use any down-thrust or right-thrust? I've been planning to leave it as 0/0 (as per the original rotaries).

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RE: Seidel 7-70 radial: Help me decide! - 12/20/2012 12:56 AM   
abufletcher



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...with the exception that it takes a few seconds for the engine to react to mixture adjustments.


This is definitely true and as long as you're expecting it, isn't a problem. But yeah, it can be a little disconcerting to go to full-throttle and not have much happen for a couple of seconds. I also found that when I "chopped" the throttle from full to idle, it took more than a few seconds to settle into the actual low-end idle. It only took a second or two to drop to a "near idle" but it took a few more seconds before it settled down.

Also, I'd like to get an additional needle valve for my engine, since I'd prefer to solder on an extension and I don't want to mess with the one that came with the engine. Where can I order one?


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RE: Seidel 7-70 radial: Help me decide! - 12/20/2012 2:00 AM   
Teus



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ORIGINAL: abufletcher

Did you use any down-thrust or right-thrust? I've been planning to leave it as 0/0 (as per the original rotaries).



My friends Caudron G-3 that you saw at our Dawn Patrol photos fly with 0/0. Model flight straight with almost no trimming needed.


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RE: Seidel 7-70 radial: Help me decide! - 12/20/2012 3:11 AM   
abufletcher



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Status: offline 		Good to know, thanks!

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RE: Seidel 7-70 radial: Help me decide! - 12/20/2012 7:58 PM   
invertmast


 

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Status: offline 		0/0 on my models as well.

Not sure why you would need an additional needle valve, mine has a hole down the center for a rod (2/56 worked out well) and an Allen setscrew to hold in the rod. I just made an extension of the necessary length and installed it into the hole and tightened down the setscrew (with bule loctite). It hasnt ever come out.

Also, i suspect your low end mixture adjustment is a bit on the lean side. When i cut the throttle from full to idle on my seidel, the rpm reduction to idle is near instant. Matter of fact, i dont even think i have touched the low end adjustment from the factory setting.

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RE: Seidel 7-70 radial: Help me decide! - 12/20/2012 8:36 PM   
Mein Duff



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Some of the finished parts that will house my Seidel/USM Radial. I have yet to start it! lol



Bob. I am assuming your Fokker is 1/4 scale? looks nice.
There is some discussion as to whether the heavy weight of the 7 cyl Seidel (5.5 - 6 lbs ) up front isn't to much for 1/4 scale birds.
Whats your opinion?

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RE: Seidel 7-70 radial: Help me decide! - 12/20/2012 9:10 PM   
BobH


 

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Status: offline 		Good question about weight. Im not sure.. lol!! I did reinforce the structure some because of the weight. I know I wont need any nose weight.. so thats good huh? Might even need tail weight, shocking!

I could put my Laser 200 in the plane if I wanted. That's what my bud has in his.. Im sure the Seidel is way to much engine for this 1/4 DVI. My intention was to use the 24" prop at mid Rpms to get the sound and scale flight. If I can manage that then it should be fine

But the real answer wont come until I have it built and flying..

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