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RE: Seidel 7-70 radial: Help me decide! - 10/20/2010 8:30 PM   
abufletcher



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Status: offline 		I figure you don't just put a $1,000 engine in ONE model and leave it there. So I'm going to build it into a removable tray, which will be the first thing I build, and then make this tray dockable with several models. At least that's the theory. The two strongest candidates at the moment are a 1/4 scale Proctor EIII built from (just slightly) resized plans and/or a 1/4 scale Pup from enlarged DB plans. I'm leaning towards the Pup as a safer "platform" to test fly the engine. The EIII would be good but I fear not having any ailerons.

Short term, I'll build a test stand that will take the dockable tray.

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RE: Seidel 7-70 radial: Help me decide! - 10/20/2010 8:43 PM   
abufletcher



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Status: offline 		Bear in mind that this engine has FAR more power than needed for most 1/4 scale WWI models AND that it would probably fit in the majority of WWI round-cowls. As such it's not a matter of matching a specific engine to a specific model...as is the usual practice.

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RE: Seidel 7-70 radial: Help me decide! - 10/20/2010 11:17 PM   
BobH


 

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Status: online 		Don, I think in practice what you'll discover is the need to share an engine with more than one plane at the same time isn't practicle. What often happens is that after a few years of building a plane.. then we fly them for some time.. During that same time we often begin to build another plane. By the time that plane is finished we can just switch the engine over to it and give the older plane a rest.

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RE: Seidel 7-70 radial: Help me decide! - 10/20/2010 11:30 PM   
summerwind


 

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Status: offline 		sorta like wheels eh Bob?

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RE: Seidel 7-70 radial: Help me decide! - 10/21/2010 12:17 AM   
BobH


 

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Status: online 		Yep, Mike did you get my pm about the wheels?

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RE: Seidel 7-70 radial: Help me decide! - 10/21/2010 12:33 AM   
summerwind


 

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Status: offline 		No.
i got a couple PM from RC car guys though
sent them each one back and we all kinda laughed at how it happens.

for the USA job i ordered both the Williams and the Dubros.............i'll let the final looks make the decision

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RE: Seidel 7-70 radial: Help me decide! - 10/21/2010 3:31 AM   
abufletcher



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quote:

ORIGINAL: BobH
Don, I think in practice what you'll discover is the need to share an engine with more than one plane at the same time isn't practicle. What often happens is that after a few years of building a plane.. then we fly them for some time.. During that same time we often begin to build another plane. By the time that plane is finished we can just switch the engine over to it and give the older plane a rest.


I suspect you're right. But I'll go ahead with the tray approach anyway. Just seems like a good place to start. The Proctor EIII plans include the construction of a tray.


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RE: Seidel 7-70 radial: Help me decide! - 10/21/2010 3:35 AM   
geezeraviation


 

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Status: offline 		Make room on that tray for a Mc Daniels 7cyl glo driver, they're like American Express dont go fly without it.
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RE: Seidel 7-70 radial: Help me decide! - 10/21/2010 3:38 AM   
abufletcher



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Status: offline 		Is this what you mean?

http://sonictronics.com/xcart/home.php?cat=308

From what I've read, the Seidels run very well without on-board glow. But we'll see.

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RE: Seidel 7-70 radial: Help me decide! - 10/21/2010 4:17 AM   
geezeraviation


 

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Status: offline 		The bottom cyls on all radials tend to run rich and flood the plug, you can run it and see if you would fly without the protection afforded by glo power, not me. Mine's not a seidel or an OS or a Saito but everyone I know flying a radial has a system on board. Even the guys who dont build thier own airplanes. With the ammount of work you put into one of your scale models do you really want to risk engine out situations that could be prevented?
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RE: Seidel 7-70 radial: Help me decide! - 10/21/2010 4:21 AM   
Spuetz



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Status: offline 		Hello Abu,
yes, the Seidels do run well without a glow heater. However I always use one - for ease of start and peace of mind.
I took a look at the website of the Mc Daniels system - the link you provide. they say that it weighs almos half a pound! Is that a mistake?
I use microsens systems. They come from Austria. Very lightweight (one ounce) and very reliable. Take the GLOW 7LP. Then power it with a Lipo (3.7V, 6500 mA/h). Microsens offers them at a 1s/5p configuration. They are suprisingly light - 5.5 oz and give enough power. You'll need the weight in the tail anyhow no matter what WW1 airplane you choose. You can also put in their balancer. That's a device that gives more energy to the bottom plugs than to the top ones. (However I don't think that's neccesary.)

Here's their website: Microsens.
It is run by Peter Klementschitz. Very nice guy. Has helped me a lot. If you just order the glow heater he can probably put it into a normal envelope and this way you'll avoid taxes and so on...
Cheers,
Martin

PS: My Taylorcraft is still flying - giving me lots of joy. Thanks for the nylon bolts!

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RE: Seidel 7-70 radial: Help me decide! - 10/21/2010 5:49 AM   
abufletcher



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Status: offline 		Martin, thanks for that very valuable information! The Microsens system looks very good.

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RE: Seidel 7-70 radial: Help me decide! - 10/21/2010 5:56 AM   
abufletcher



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Status: offline 		BTW, eventually, I'd like to do a scratch-built 1/4 scale Sopwith Triplane from the Jim Kiger drawings and use the Seidel in that. But that would be years down the road. For now, I think I could get a Pup into the air the fastest.

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RE: Seidel 7-70 radial: Help me decide! - 10/21/2010 8:19 AM   
BobH


 

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Status: online 		An answer to my question to Seidel of India. I asked them if they intend to keep producing the engine even if Seidel Germany goes out of business. Here's the response:

"Greetings and thanks for your mail.

We are the manufacturer for various types of UMS - Seidel Radial engines, ST 7-70CC, ST 9-90CC, ST 7-250CC & ST 7-35CC.

So far, we have supplied more than 300 engines worldwide and will keep producing these engines from India."

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RE: Seidel 7-70 radial: Help me decide! - 10/21/2010 8:55 AM   
abufletcher



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Status: offline 		Good to hear that. Sounds like UMS really bought the manufacturing rights vs. Seidel's claim that they had simply moved their manufacturing facility to India. I imagine that Seidel continues to hold intellectual property right to the design and that UMS pays some sort of royalty.

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RE: Seidel 7-70 radial: Help me decide! - 10/21/2010 9:03 AM   
Mein Duff



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quote:

ORIGINAL: Spuetz
You'll need the weight in the tail anyhow no matter what WW1 airplane you choose.

Now thats a new one !?!??!

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RE: Seidel 7-70 radial: Help me decide! - 10/21/2010 9:13 AM   
abufletcher



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Status: offline 		Seidel 770 = 2.6kg.

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RE: Seidel 7-70 radial: Help me decide! - 10/21/2010 1:07 PM   
Spuetz



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Status: offline 		Hello Mein Duff,

is your experience different?

I had to place the two receiver batteries (1250 2S Lipos) and the Glow battery (6500 4P Lipo) behind the pilot's seat in my Nieuport!
Same with my Aero A 102.
But I like that. Yet another scale aspect. After all theses WW 1 airplanes all had such short noses because of the weight of the engines. Now with a Seidel, that's the same with your model. The engine is more than 25% of the take off weight!



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RE: Seidel 7-70 radial: Help me decide! - 10/21/2010 1:25 PM   
Spuetz



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Status: offline 		Hello Geezeraviaton,

you're mentioning what Peter Klementschitz of Microsens uses as an argument for the balancer. This balancer distributes more power the lower cylinders than to the upper ones.
However, I have flown Seidel engines for about seven years now. Never had an engine failure or lost a cylinder! I use the glow heater for starting the engine and on landing. Otherwise - during flight - I shut it down to save some battery. Not a problem yet! I find Seidel's to be very reliable. The only loss I have had with a sudden engine failure was due to a faulty tank system. No fuel, no power - I guess that's a truth to be held self-evident.

So while the theory of the flooded cylinders certainly makes sense, I have not witnessed any evidence of it yet. My arguments for a glow heater are these:

1. I don't like to have to attach cables for starting the engine
2. I need some weight in the tail anyhow. Let it be useful weight, not lead
3. RPM on idle much lower, below 1000 rpm! That's just for aestetics: After a flight, when you taxi back, let it run a little while on low, low, low rpm. Always draws a crowd!
4. and - yes - added safety!

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RE: Seidel 7-70 radial: Help me decide! - 10/21/2010 1:33 PM   
abufletcher



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Status: offline 		Sounds like all good reasons to me! And, yes, it'll be nice that "scale balance" will now be restored to our models.

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RE: Seidel 7-70 radial: Help me decide! - 10/21/2010 5:55 PM   
BobH


 

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Status: online 		"We are participating in the6th Annual International Hobby Expo between October 21 - 24, 2010 in Donald E. Stephens Convention Center · Rosemont · Illinois · USA - Booth No: 2620 - Hall: A"

A detail I left out. Seems as if those attending the chicago show can visit the booth and ask questions.

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RE: Seidel 7-70 radial: Help me decide! - 10/21/2010 6:57 PM   
abufletcher



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quote:

ORIGINAL: Spuetz
Otherwise - during flight - I shut it down to save some battery.


How do you shut it down?


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RE: Seidel 7-70 radial: Help me decide! - 10/21/2010 7:27 PM   
ARUP


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: summerwind

No.
i got a couple PM from RC car guys though
sent them each one back and we all kinda laughed at how it happens.

for the USA job i ordered both the Williams and the Dubros.............i'll let the final looks make the decision


Ever thought about building your own wheels? Different sized discs made of aircraft ply laminated together which will help with tyre retention- bigger discs outermost, brass bushing, styrene or paper cone to represent the spoke covers and tubing from auto supply with ends CA'd together (thread smaller tubing inside to help w glue joint).

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RE: Seidel 7-70 radial: Help me decide! - 10/21/2010 7:55 PM   
abufletcher



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ORIGINAL: ARUP
Ever thought about building your own wheels?


As a matter of fact...


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RE: Seidel 7-70 radial: Help me decide! - 10/21/2010 10:31 PM   
Spuetz



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Status: offline 		That's the cool thing about microsens' GLOW series. Put it on a separat channel, link it to the throttle channel via a mixer and program that mixer to be turned on and off with a switch.

GLOW works like this: You turn it on, then go full throttle. Now as you go back to idle, the red LED starts blinking. This indicates start power. After two minutes or if you advance the throttle - whichever occurs first - it goes to flight mode and the LED will be red solid. (Little less than half the current of start power) As you advance the throttle less and less power will be fed to the plugs. Passing half throttle towards full throttle the LED turns to green, indicating that no glow power is applied.

If you want to go back to start power at any given time, just quickly advance the throttle from idle to full and back to idle. Just sort of a flick forth and back and the GLOW is in start mode. This way you could restart a cold plug even in fllight...

If you switch the mixer off, no glow power is supplied at any throttle position.

I have a three way swicht on my transmitter: Down is Glow on, Middle is Glow off, Up is Engine shut down (throttle to full idle). Luckily the engine shut-down mode only works when the throttle stick is in full idle position. otherwise it would be dangerous to have those functions on the same switch...

So I start full down. Then, after take off I go to middle position. Upon landing back down. After reaching final parking position full up...




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