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RE: Warbird Race - Morgan Hill, CA - October 2nd - 9/29/2010 7:59 PM   
ChrisAttebery



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Status: offline 		Tommy, I'm glad that a couple of you will be making the trip down.


Anyone going to be out practicing on Friday? I'm going to come out around 2:00. I've got a couple more tweaks to make to my setup.



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RE: Warbird Race - Morgan Hill, CA - October 2nd - 9/29/2010 8:25 PM   
MONGO44


 

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Status: offline 		Chris,

Going to miss you guys this weekend.   I will be high on Morphine come Saturday..LOL

I talked to Richard V last night and he thinks he is going to make it since he missed the Sacramento Race.  He is going to drop the kids off at Great American and come play with everyone.   Should be a great race.  Lots of fast planes going to be there.  

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RE: Warbird Race - Morgan Hill, CA - October 2nd - 9/29/2010 10:27 PM   
ChrisAttebery



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Best of luck with your surgery. At least you'll get some "flying" in.

That'd be cool if Richard shows up. I'm sure he'll wax my tail though. I think I'm going to be an also ran this weekend. The 140 just isn't making the kind of power I'd hoped for. I'm going to try a couple more tweaks on Friday. Hopefully one of them will work.



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RE: Warbird Race - Morgan Hill, CA - October 2nd - 9/30/2010 12:51 AM   
ChrisAttebery



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Status: offline 		I just got a call from Richard. He is going to do some testing tomorrow and then make a decision on whether to come or not.

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RE: Warbird Race - Morgan Hill, CA - October 2nd - 9/30/2010 9:16 AM   
still4given



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Status: offline 		I was checking out your rules. What is the reason for the 4000 rpm idle rule. It's not like 4000 rpm is actually idling. Is this to keep out the Nelsons? I doubt any plane will land with the engine turning 4K.

Just wondering

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RE: Warbird Race - Morgan Hill, CA - October 2nd - 9/30/2010 10:11 AM   
Tommy_Gun



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Status: offline 		Why are you worried about the rules of another racing group?
The 4000 RPM rule can only be met by engines with throttles.
And it is a safety consideration.

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RE: Warbird Race - Morgan Hill, CA - October 2nd - 9/30/2010 11:35 AM   
still4given



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quote:

ORIGINAL: Tommy_Gun

Why are you worried about the rules of another racing group?
The 4000 RPM rule can only be met by engines with throttles.
And it is a safety consideration.


I am not worried, just curious. I read the rules because I plan to attend next season. Why do you care? Did you help write the rules?

With a 4000 RPM idle you still have to kill the engine to land and it's too fast to safely taxi so what does it accomplish?

Your answer would indicate that it is in place to restrict what type of engine someone can use. A 4000 RPM idle is anything but safe.

They have pretty restrictive rules for the other three classes. It just seemed if they have an unlimited class, it ought to be a little more open. It doesn't matter to me. If I come to race, I will make sure my equipment meets the requirements.

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RE: Warbird Race - Morgan Hill, CA - October 2nd - 9/30/2010 11:50 AM   
Todd Chandler


 

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Status: offline 		Call me crazy but..... One would be left to think the 4000 rule is a quick check for a carburetor (w/operable throttle).

Don't think it's the recommended landing rpms




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RE: Warbird Race - Morgan Hill, CA - October 2nd - 9/30/2010 12:35 PM   
still4given



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Why not just say that all engines must have a carburetor with an operable throttle? Why set the 4000 RPM limit when that is clearly not a safe speed for an idle?

It' no big deal. I was just wondering how they came up with that number. All of my racers actually idle low enough to taxi and land except for my Nelson powered cub. I wouldn't bring it with me since although it would be fun to see how it compares to a DF powered PM Strega, it would probably ruffle too many feathers.

Blessings, Terry

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RE: Warbird Race - Morgan Hill, CA - October 2nd - 9/30/2010 2:22 PM   
skymasterone


 

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Status: offline 		PM Strega's are not an acceptable scale outline at SAM Warbird Races unless modified.

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RE: Warbird Race - Morgan Hill, CA - October 2nd - 9/30/2010 3:16 PM   
still4given



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quote:

ORIGINAL: skymasterone

PM Strega's are not an acceptable scale outline at SAM Warbird Races unless modified.


I know, but this thread is about Morgan Hill and I believe they are welcome there.

Blessings, Terry

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RE: Warbird Race - Morgan Hill, CA - October 2nd - 9/30/2010 7:48 PM   
roy batty



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quote:

ORIGINAL: still4given

I was checking out your rules. What is the reason for the 4000 rpm idle rule. It's not like 4000 rpm is actually idling. Is this to keep out the Nelsons? I doubt any plane will land with the engine turning 4K.

Just wondering


Really?
Based upon this it looks as though you are worried about a particular engine manufacturer and type being eight balled.
As for landing at 4k RPM. It's a lot easier than trying to do so at full throttle on an engine without a carburetor.
Also, when things go terribly wrong, it's good to be able to throttle back to try and minimize the results.

P.S. Tommy, better keep an eye on that 190 or I'm gonna jump in it and do a Hoover maneuver.

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RE: Warbird Race - Morgan Hill, CA - October 2nd - 9/30/2010 8:25 PM   
MONGO44


 

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To answer most of the questions:

# 1, The rules for Morgan Hill 2011 are going to change slightly.  Any airplanes pretty much legal now will still be legal for 2011 under the new rules.   We are just trying to move our rules closer to the SAM rules without the use of timers.   The 120 Warbird and Unlimited Warbird will most likely combine since most are using the same planes for both classes anyways.  The new unlimtied class will have wing area to engine displacement similar to SAMS rules, but the 520 sqs and up will vary to make sure no aircraft currently flying are deleted. It will not make much of a differnece anyways.   We will be allowing aircraft as small as 400 sq's to compete.   Stay tuned.  Rules are almost done.  If you want a copy, send me your email address and I will get them to you once AMA has approved them.

#2 The 75 Warbird will remain as is

# 3 The 46 Warbird is in the works to allow possibly non Y.S  4-strokes, but this is still being debated.  

#4 We are contiplating adding a Stock Warbird class for stock 46 engines to replace our T-34 racing classes, but still allow the stock T-34s to race since there is so many of them around.  Still an open discussion.  


 Now....the 4000 engine rule.

This was implemented a handful of years ago because AMA SAID SO!!!!.   Bottom line is Safety in the eyes of the AMA.  It has a lot to do with our field layout, start up precedures and so on.  I think SAM rules have a idle rule as well.   WE have to submit our rules everytime something is changed because we do not have timing systems. 

As to the precedure, it is to only be measured at the time off.

In reality, AMA i personally think just didnt want full bore takeoffs with aircraft which could torque over and go into the pilots or spectators.  I have seen some planes even with throttle control get out of wack in the hands of some intermediate pilots with big motors.



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RE: Warbird Race - Morgan Hill, CA - October 2nd - 9/30/2010 9:31 PM   
delateurj


 

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Status: offline 		Hi,

The PM Strega is allowed even without modifications in the "California Sport Warbird" rules which is what we run at Morgan Hill (and some other venues like Madera).

SAMs requires modifications to bring the outline closer to scale is my understanding.

- Joe.



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RE: Warbird Race - Morgan Hill, CA - October 2nd - 10/1/2010 3:15 AM   
skymasterone


 

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Status: offline 		"Now....the 4000 engine rule.

This was implemented a handful of years ago because AMA SAID SO!!!!."

Same for SAM!

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RE: Warbird Race - Morgan Hill, CA - October 2nd - 10/1/2010 3:16 AM   
skymasterone


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: delateurj

Hi,

The PM Strega is allowed even without modifications in the ''California Sport Warbird'' rules which is what we run at Morgan Hill (and some other venues like Madera).

SAMs requires modifications to bring the outline closer to scale is my understanding.

- Joe.



CORRECT!

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RE: Warbird Race - Morgan Hill, CA - October 2nd - 10/1/2010 8:51 PM   
eddyc


 

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Status: offline 		Well, just as I finish loading my truck to come down to the Bay Area to race with you guys my boss calls and tells me I have a piddly little job to do tomorrow. Hey Marcelo, if you're reading this thanks anyway for the loaner motor. Have fun everyone and fly hard and safe! EC

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RE: Warbird Race - Morgan Hill, CA - October 2nd - 10/1/2010 10:23 PM   
ChrisAttebery



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Status: offline 		Eddy,

Sorry to hear that you have to work. There will be more races in your future.


Chris

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RE: Warbird Race - Morgan Hill, CA - October 2nd - 10/2/2010 6:56 AM   
ChrisAttebery



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Status: offline 		Well, I'm out. I went out today and got one semi-decent run and then the motor started acting up. After working on it 2-3 hours at the field I
brought it hoem and tore it down. I managed to burn a glow plug and the wire embeded itself into the exhaust valve seat. The valve wouldn't seal so I pulled it out. I tried to lap the valve but I don't have any compund and the auto parts store was out too. I'm pretty disappointed with all the work I have thrown into this motor with so little to show for it.

Oh well. I hope you all have a great time.


Chris

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RE: Warbird Race - Morgan Hill, CA - October 2nd - 10/2/2010 10:55 AM   
Tommy_Gun



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Status: offline 		Toothpaste!
Try lapping it with toothpaste.
Seriously.

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RE: Warbird Race - Morgan Hill, CA - October 2nd - 10/2/2010 4:54 PM   
eddyc


 

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RE: Warbird Race - Morgan Hill, CA - October 2nd - 10/3/2010 9:50 PM   
still4given



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quote:

ORIGINAL: skymasterone

''Now....the 4000 engine rule.

This was implemented a handful of years ago because AMA SAID SO!!!!.''

Same for SAM!


OK, I have looked into this because if it is AMA it affects our races too. I spoke with Mike Brown at length about this and he knows of no AMA requirement for a 4000 RPM idle. So if any of you know who with the AMA made this requirement, please let me know. I have absolutely no problem with an CD making requirements for his particular race. However, if it is an AMA requirement, it affects all of us.

Please let us know who required this and if it is the AMA rules somewhere, please state where to find it.

Thanks, Terry

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RE: Warbird Race - Morgan Hill, CA - October 2nd - 10/3/2010 10:53 PM   
PLANEBENDER



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Status: offline 		Just got backfrom morgan Hill, I had a great time and really enjoyed racing without having to coast at idle the full last lap to prevent a breakout. LOL A big thanks to the club as a whole and also special thanks to James P. Gale for all of his work!!! Sorry you dident get to race James.Missed Chris A. there. We only had 7 in Unlimited but the racing was certenly intence. Everyone jumped in and called for everyone. I plan to attend all of these races in 2011. I would also like to try racing in Victorville as well. I will take my trailer and haul up to 10 racers.

Whoops! Sorry to place a post here about Morgan Hill. But I really don't have any comments concerning the 4000rpm idle rule at SAMs

Planebender

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RE: Warbird Race - Morgan Hill, CA - October 2nd - 10/4/2010 5:02 AM   
skymasterone


 

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Status: offline 		I believe it's in the special waiver that SAM flys under. Check with AMA Competition or Rich Hanson-former VP Dist 10.

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RE: Warbird Race - Morgan Hill, CA - October 2nd - 10/4/2010 8:19 AM   
Mluvara



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Status: offline 		Thanks to all that came down to the SCCMAS for the race. Sorry I couldn't mix it up in unlimited. I had surgery on my leg the day before and only made it out for a couple hours in the afternoon to watch. Look forward to having everyone back in 2011. Hopefully all the race dates will work out between the groups so we can spread things out next year.

Michael Luvara
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