RE: Pica Duellist

RE: Pica Duellist
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RE: Pica Duellist - 9/26/2003 1:32:23 PM

MormonMike

Posts: 1109
Joined: 9/18/2002
From: millville, UT, USA
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Bill ! I can finally get back into this site. ELECTRIC DUELIST coming along nicely. Useing 45-3 Phasor brushless, with 24-28 3,000 mah Nimh. also chose to use NASA airscoops on front of duelly to push air over hot batteries plus same on top and bottom of nacelles to cool motor and speed control. Took out 12 inches of wing taper towards tip and went constant-chord. Flaps, rear-mounted servos with reciever mounted incenter bottom of fuselage four inches behind trailing edge. Still a ways off from completion and still dont have the capability of posting photos yet. Chuck is probably wondering whatever happened to the guy with the Islander done up in the Air Jamaica color scheme. Im still here. Hope this link holds and will stay in touch. By guys! MJS

(in reply to OldRookie)

Post #: 326

RE: Pica Duellist - 9/26/2003 6:41:58 PM

William Robison

Posts: 20269
Joined: 11/10/2002
From: Mary Esther, Florida, FL, USA
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MikeJSmith:

Welcome back. Good to hear the "Duelectrist" is still on course. Keep us posted.

Have you settled the "Screaming women?"

Greg:

With the rudder in a conventional position there is always some roll coupling when it is deflected. It has the effect of being a single aileron. When deflected it will push the tail to one side or the other, but since it's off center an amount of the force tends to roll the plane. By moving the aerodynamic center of the rudder lower, this can be decreased or eliminated. Look at the rudder on the CAP series planes. Narrow chord at the top, big and fat at the bottom.

By mixing aileron into the rudder the roll coupling can be cancelled, but any control deflection gives greater induced drag, so decreased roll coupling makes a more efficient airplane.

When flying straight and level a Vee tail is the most efficient since it has less "Wetted area" than a conventional empennage. But a normal vee tail also has the greatest roll coupling of any layout. Consider right ruder input - the left side raises and the right side lowers. While the difference gives a right rudder command, the sum gives a left roll command. And this is the wrong direction of roll for right rudder.

But there's a cure.

If we build our vee tail with anhedral, having the vee point down instead of up, it becomes a different world. Now our right rudder input has the left surface go down, and the right surface up. Now our induced roll is to the right along with our right rudder inout. Everything's rosy.

So why aren't planes built with inverted vee empennage? Consider the length of the tail wheel strut, or with trike gear how about bouncing the tail planes on the runway for take off and landing?

Actually, there has been one successful plane built with an inverted vee tail; the Predator UAV. The USAF must have drug several of theirs on the ground too, as the later versions of the Predator have gone back to a more conventional tail.

Just some thoughts to ponder.

Bill.

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(in reply to OldRookie)

Post #: 327

RE: Pica Duellist - 10/2/2003 11:52:37 PM

strnglvr

Posts: 106
Joined: 2/13/2002
From: harrison, MI, USA
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Well Hello All, Been fixing gear on my TF Corsair,fly two flights gear broke, fixed, two more gear broke, Fixed Again, if it breaks there again, I'll eat your Hat!........Anyway on to my duelist/whatever i'm making out of it, I did make another F2 former out of some 7 ply aircraft/ply and epoxied to F2, it is now at 0 incidence, also stab stadle is now been shaved to 0 incidence, all that is left is how i'm going to go about bringing the engines up to 0 degree's, won't be that bad, thinking about moving the tail servo's forward one bay and moving reciever and batteries to the front since there won't be a nose gear up there, anyway as soon as i get it all ironed out i'll start sheeting, as soon as get more progress worthy of pic's i'll shoot some,..............Paul

(in reply to ChuckAuger)

Post #: 328

RE: Pica Duellist - 12/13/2004 8:13:19 AM

William Robison

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Joined: 11/10/2002
From: Mary Esther, Florida, FL, USA
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Some people might consider this a flagrant bump of an old thread, I perfer to think of it as keeping history in the forefront of everyone's mind.

Haw.

Bill.

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Post #: 329

RE: Pica Duellist - 12/13/2004 9:53:23 PM

Gismo

Posts: 12
Joined: 10/2/2003
From: New Boston, NH, USA
Status: offline

I have a Duelist kit with plans but no instructions, I loaned them out and now they are gone. Can anyone help with a copy of the instructions.

(in reply to William Robison)

Post #: 330

RE: Pica Duellist - 12/13/2004 10:03:14 PM

William Robison

Posts: 20269
Joined: 11/10/2002
From: Mary Esther, Florida, FL, USA
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Gismo:

Send me your email address, I have it all scanned, I can send you copies.

There's another user who wanted them, apologies but I've lost his address. If he will send it again, please.

Bill.

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AMA 25139 - More than 40 years.

(in reply to Gismo)

Post #: 331

RE: Pica Duellist - 12/13/2004 11:19:54 PM

GSNut

Posts: 408
Joined: 3/22/2002
From: Thornton, CO,
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Gismo

I have a Duelist kit with plans but no instructions, I loaned them out and now they are gone. Can anyone help with a copy of the instructions.

Gismo...

I have one CD left that has all the instructions on it for the 240. And the addendum for the 260 plus formers, ribs and such...Plus some pictures of various 240s..

Will need your address to send em to ??

You can pm me here with it.

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(in reply to Gismo)

Post #: 332

RE: Pica Duellist - 12/15/2004 10:16:03 PM

GSNut

Posts: 408
Joined: 3/22/2002
From: Thornton, CO,
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Are there any Pro's or Con's on washout on the 260 Duellist..??
The only reference I can find is in Dave Platts Orginial Text on the 240. That only seems to knock the washout out of the picture for it. Would only degredate the inverted flight as far as I can see.

Am thinking about 1/4th in. if at all..???

After a bad start in which I found that my wing building board had developed a bad 1/4 in. sag in the center. Was very discomforting but easily corrected with a couple of hours work and a straight -edge.

BTW: Bill am very seriously considering doing the flapped version as you suggested.

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Post #: 333

RE: Pica Duellist - 12/16/2004 1:25:45 AM

William Robison

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From: Mary Esther, Florida, FL, USA
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Doug:

The washout is the only concession to upright over inverted flight. The washout of the 2/60 Mk II is retained, but if you wish the wing can be built flat. You will need to move the outer end of the jig stick toward the trailing edge about 1 1/2" to 2", measure the height of the rear ends of the ribs, set the jig stick to have the inboard and outboard TE of the ribs measure the same. That will give the zero washout if you want it. Eliminating the washout will make the stall a little nastier, if you find you wish you had built the washout in you can reflex the ailerons (if you use separate flaps) to get almost the same effect later. See third paragraph.

Cutting the flaps free from the ailerons, using one servo per surface, you can wire all the servos to a single channel and have them operate as though there weren't any separate flaps, later you can connect the inners to the flap channel, and if you have the right mix you will end up with both full span ailerons and separate flaps when you want them.

The airplane, in the smaller version, exhibits no need for flaps, but they do widen the operating envelope, lowering the stall speed, and giving the effect of washout.

Bill.

_____________________________

Real Airplanes have Two Engines
AMA 25139 - More than 40 years.

(in reply to GSNut)

Post #: 334

RE: Pica Duellist - 12/16/2004 1:52:48 AM

GSNut

Posts: 408
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From: Thornton, CO,
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Thanks Bill !

I framed the wings with the 5/16" jig strip in place but when I straightened out the 1/4" bow in each panel the whole wing has regressed to a perfectly straight flat wing with no washout.
As each panel is quite flexible yet I will fix the washout at 5/16 in. per panel in the final wing steps.

I will install the flaps initially as I already have a couple of birds with that feature and do enjoy the added benefits. Will be doing the initial control runs in the wings starting tomorrow.

Thanks Again!

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Post #: 335

RE: Pica Duellist - 12/16/2004 2:16:19 AM

William Robison

Posts: 20269
Joined: 11/10/2002
From: Mary Esther, Florida, FL, USA
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Doug:

Consider leaving the wing flat. You can rig the plane with the flaps 3-5 degrees down, this will give you (effectively) washout in the wing. And you can rig them to neutral for maximum aerobatics. Your call.

Bill.

< Message edited by William Robison -- 12/16/2004 2:17:52 AM >

_____________________________

Real Airplanes have Two Engines
AMA 25139 - More than 40 years.

(in reply to GSNut)

Post #: 336

RE: Pica Duellist - 12/16/2004 3:07:17 AM

GSNut

Posts: 408
Joined: 3/22/2002
From: Thornton, CO,
Status: offline

Lots of good ideas!

Thanks Bill

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(in reply to William Robison)

Post #: 337

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