Ernest..

Ernest..
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Ernest.. - 11/19/2002 7:37:23 AM

Posts: 5134
Joined: 12/5/2001
From: Pampa, TX, USA
Status: offline

Yes, I have inquired to a laser cutter about making a 85" Duellist. I thought the quote I got was very reasonable.

Here is the e-mail I got back from the fellow..Let me know if you decide to carry out this project, I bet it would be better if he could do 2 at once.
*****************************************

I offer large format scanning, plans scaling (up or down) overdrawing of
parts in AutoCad for laser cutting, Coreldraw, vinyl graphics and high
resolution decals. I am also preparing to provide cutting of foam wing
cores, and vacuformed parts, but all the eqpt has not yet arrived. If I can
assist, please fell free to email or call. To accurately quote a scan to
laser file project, I will need to review the plans, with a description of
the service(s) you desire. If you would like to send a copy of your plan, I
will quote it for you immediately. Most scan to laser file projects run from
$50 to $100, but all depends on amount of parts, and the complexity. The
actual laser cutting cost is about $30 to $45, wood included. Again, this
depends on size, large parts required more wood, and more cutting time.

Large format scanning is $1.00 per square foot, and I quote per project,
rather than on an hourly basis.

I have 17 years AutoCad experience as a mechanical designer, and 2 years in
the graphics, and aircraft design field. I have accomplished over 20
customer projects, of which only one, did not evolve. I also have 7 kits of
my own design, beginning to see the RC market.

Thanks for the inquiry, and if for any reason you are not pleased with the
quote, your plans will be returned, postage paid, or at the completion of
the project.

Glenn A. DelConte
792 Brandlwood Way
Lilburn, Georgia 30047
(770) 717-1694

**********************************************

_____________________________

Breaking the Speed of Sound, Straight Down!

(in reply to OldRookie)

Pica Duellist - 11/19/2002 8:45:01 AM

William Robison

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From: Mary Esther, Florida, FL, USA
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ehfleming:

Making a smaller version of a good flying airplane often results in a dog, thanks (mostly) to Mr. Reynolds and his number. Happily, the reverse is not true. Scaling up a super nice bird like the Duellist should result in a really great airplane. BUT. The trouble of making a plug just to pull one globberfast (fiberglass) fuselage is not my idea of fun - I'd use built-up construction, or a foam cut.

I have a Pica (pre-laser) Duellist, construction not started. Still haven't collected all the bits I want for it. I have ordered the Mk II plan, see if Ol' Dave has made any changes I want to incorporate. Main question I've still not made a firm decision on is the incidence and thrust angles, as well as wing tip wash out. I have scratch-built two twins, they are like night and day. In designing and building my number two twin, I set EVERYTHING to zero-zero and it pleases the H*** out of me. Did all the "Stability" angles in number one, it flies like a dog. When I say scratch, that's what I mean. Not someone else's plan, mine.

But on this thread I've heard that Platt's original design was also zero-zero, that's one of the things I want to check on the Mk II, if he has it also at 0-0 that's where my Duellist will be.

ChuckAuger, If I read that letter correctly it sounds like the cut wood kit will be a max of $145, if only one is purchased. Second and later will be a max of $45. If that is correct we can split the set-up charge among several of us, and have a unit price well below $100. Add the piddly stuff and still beat the poo out of Pica's price, and a larger plane too. Can't beat that with a stick.

If it works out sign me up for one or two sets. I'll have to finish the one I have, Joe Bridi is supposed to send me one of his remaining F7F kits, I'll have to do that one, and of course there's a J-3 to build, (doesn't everyone have a J-3 to build?) so it'll be a fair way back in line, but it sounds like a great place to put a pair of Technopower's little radials.

ehfleming, another word for you. EMS/Jomar has a nice gear sequencer, requires a separate door servo, either mechanically connected or operating a second air valve. Check them out at http://www.emsjomar.com Mark is one of the good guys.

Speaking of Dave Platt. Dave, if you're listening, tell us why Pica cut you out of designer credit in their Duellist kits. The World (or at least we on this thread) Wants to Know!

A round engined twin, there's no bigger win!

WLR

(in reply to OldRookie)

Duellist 2/60 - 11/19/2002 9:12:17 AM

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From: Fayetteville, GA, USA
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Chuck

This reads too good to be true. I can't beleive he can do this at that price. I estimated about $100 in wood(and some CF), alone. I thought the most time consuming tasks would be cutting out ribs and formers. If he could accurately cut those, that would save a lot of time for me. I plan to plank the fuse. Also, if he's that reasonable, I should plan airfoiled tail feathers. He lives about an hours drive from me. It would be good to sit down with him and talk through what ever mods are required before he sets up to cut. I'm getting way ahead of myself, here. There are a lot of details I need to work out before I get to these stages, the least of which includes thinking through the mods.

Thanks for this info. This is another step closer to me pulling off this project.

Ernest

(in reply to OldRookie)

Hey, that's good! - 11/19/2002 9:25:54 AM

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From: Pampa, TX, USA
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Hey Ernest..it would really be great if you could indeed take a set of plans to the guy. It should make it much easier for him to make an accurate quote. I suspect that the cost might be a tad higher (like we are noting..this price seems almost too good to be true!) as the Duellist has different ribs/formers, etc. for everything. But I did tell him what I was after in my original e-mail..an 85" Duellist.

I looked at my Pica plans..they are the older Duellist, no MK #, and they say designed by Dave Platt. They are not going to be useable for this project, however. I don't recall them having all the ribs/formers on the plans...you would almost need to have an older kit and copy the parts to make this version work. But I can attest to the excellent flying qualities of these plans. At least we know that at some point Pica had Dave Platt on their plans.

If nothing else we have found a small group of like-minded guys, it would be nice to have a little peer support on the project.

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Breaking the Speed of Sound, Straight Down!

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Pica Duellist - 11/19/2002 9:56:31 AM

Posts: 129
Joined: 1/28/2002
From: Fayetteville, GA, USA
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Chuck,

My plans are the newer MK2, drawn for fabricating all the pieces. They're suitable for the project. I agree, it would be good to sit down with this guy when we decide to do this. William, thanks for the EMS Jomar lead. I'll figure out something to get this Bobcat finished. I'm signing off for tonight. Later, I'll post a list of some of the mods I thought about.

(in reply to OldRookie)

Pica Duellist - 11/19/2002 11:36:09 AM

William Robison

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From: Mary Esther, Florida, FL, USA
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Chuck/Ernest:

Got my plans out. Listed as kit #RC-5, credits Morten Tanger as the designer, says plans by Jon Tanger. It would seem mine is between yours, Chuck, and the Mk II. This plan does not have the fuse former outlines, and has the rib shape only for #6. BUT, as I haven't started construction outlines could be pulled for all if desired. As I said earlier, I have also ordered the Mk II plan. Want anything out of mine, let me know.

Ernest, another thing EMS/Jomar has, that I have come to believe is a necessity, is their "Twin Engine Sync System." Takes ALL the pain out of it. Listed at $89.95, the gear and door sequencer is $44.95. You're welcome. WATS number is (800) 845-8978 - as I said, Mark is one of the good guys, so use his WATS number for orders only, get info on the net.

You're on the skids if you've no twin for the kids.

WLR

(in reply to OldRookie)

Pica Duellist - 11/19/2002 11:54:09 AM

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From: Berkeley, CA,
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Hi all,

Mine is also the Morten Tanger #RC-5 kit, with the 7 degrees down thrust at the firewall and the symetrical airfoil. Washout built into wing by using a strategically placed strip of balsa on the plans durring build-up.

It would be very interesting to see a side by side comparison of the various versions of the duellist: rigging angles, flight report etc.

-E

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Pica Duellist - 11/19/2002 6:11:01 PM

Edwin

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Joined: 2/8/2002
From: Leander, TX, USA
Status: online

I would be interested in an 85" Duellist also. Should work nicely with a couple of Saito .90's. I have been thinking about a larger version for a few weeks now, but was considering a 100" or so. 85" is actually more reasonable.
Edwin

(in reply to OldRookie)

platt duellist,chuckauger - 11/19/2002 9:38:50 PM

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From: allenstown, NH, USA
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hello chuckauger,
you have the older platt plans of the duellist,what to they show for wing & stab incidences as well as thrust lines on the engines.
maybe we can see where the design was changed.thanks in advance for your reply

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scalebldr - 11/19/2002 11:39:17 PM

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From: Pampa, TX, USA
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OK, I measured the angles..from the plans. Although the plane is assembled only feet from this computer, I'm hot going to block it up and measure it.LOL

The firewalls are -7deg to the bottom of the nacell...

The wing and stab are both +2 to the fuse crutch (which I assume..uh oh, there's that word :

) is the datum line.

But the nacelles apear to be -2 to the wing...so the firewall is still -7 to the datum line..make sense??

Or I guess you could say the datum line of the nacell is parallel to the datum line of the fuse..with the wing being +2 to both.

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Pica Duellist - 11/20/2002 12:04:41 AM

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From: Prior Lake, MN, USA
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Chuck,
Is there any right thrust in the firewalls?

Greg

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Nope.. - 11/20/2002 12:24:38 AM

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From: Pampa, TX, USA
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The right/left thrust angle is 0. About the only thing I see that is 0.

I think the long tail might have something to do with the engine out characteristics..I've seen where guys used out thrust, moved the nacelles, a little bit of everything but this one flies pretty well in the engine outs I've had (2). I've never lost one on take-off.

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Big Duelist - 11/20/2002 12:24:45 AM

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From: Hobart, IN, USA
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When you get a good solid price that he can make this kit for please email me. I would want to buy on

[email]Eagle_109@yahoo.com[/email]

Thanks
Troy

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Pica Duellist - 11/20/2002 1:42:24 AM

William Robison

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From: Mary Esther, Florida, FL, USA
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ChuckAuger,

Please Chuck, look again at the stab on your plan. The stab is indeed 2 degrees, but it is negative, not positive.

A single will only tingle, fly a twin, see what's in.

WLR

(in reply to OldRookie)

Nope, it's positive! - 11/20/2002 2:42:31 AM

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From: Pampa, TX, USA
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And I'm positive that it's positive..there is a building note right there on the plans that says, "Note Positive Incidence!" pointing to the stab. The LE of the stab is noticeably higher than the TE.

I think with 2 degrees positive on both wing and stab it gives the plane a nice nose down look in the air, warbird like..

But I'm quite positive about the positive stab.

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Pica Duellist - 11/20/2002 4:19:51 AM

William Robison

Posts: 20269
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From: Mary Esther, Florida, FL, USA
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Chuck, apologies and much self-abnegation. Looked at my plan again. There is an arrow pointing to the stab with the caption "2d positive incidence." So Sorry, Please excuse.

But with the wing and stab both at +2 de