Pica Duellist

Pica Duellist
View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as Guest

Users viewing this topic: none

Printable Version

All Forums >> RC Airplanes >> Twin & Multi Engine RC Aircraft >> Pica Duellist

Page: << < prev 2 3 [4] 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 next > >>

Login

Message

<< Older Topic Newer Topic >>

Pica Duellist - 11/26/2002 5:22:51 AM

William Robison

Posts: 20269
Joined: 11/10/2002
From: Mary Esther, Florida, FL, USA
Status: offline

Dave, one just for you:

Old age and treachery, forget it, I prefer lechery.

And a modification:

Some enjoy the infantry, grow up - try adultery.

A three engined biplane canard: phooey, that's way too hard.

(That one OK?)

Bill

(in reply to OldRookie)

Duellist framed up, for sale.. - 11/26/2002 6:05:03 AM

Posts: 5134
Joined: 12/5/2001
From: Pampa, TX, USA
Status: offline

Well, William..I found one of the Duellists that was framed up. Has Spring Air retracts installed...but too short. Said he wanted $100, but wouldn't ship..so I bought it.

Twins are in, my hangar has another 2 banger.

_____________________________

Breaking the Speed of Sound, Straight Down!

(in reply to OldRookie)

Pica Duellist - 11/26/2002 6:08:52 AM

Posts: 13511
Joined: 3/20/2002
From: San Bernardino County, CA, USA
Status: offline

Bill,....you're gettin' worse.....

_____________________________

An engineer says.... "That won''t work".
A mechanic says..."Oh yeah, watch this".
"Old Age, and Treachery will overcome youth and skill".
Revver Bro #4.

(in reply to OldRookie)

Pica Duellist - 11/26/2002 6:58:43 AM

William Robison

Posts: 20269
Joined: 11/10/2002
From: Mary Esther, Florida, FL, USA
Status: offline

David:
The quality of those things is indicated by the volume of the groans. Just like puns. Try this:

. A young maid named Anheuser,
. swore no man could surprise her.
_. Then a fellow named Colt,
_. gave her virtue a jolt.
. Now she's sadder Budweiser.

And did you notice that I have caused ChuckAuger to demonstrate insanity also? (My hangar has another 2 banger)

NO FAIR Charles!! I asked you to find that Duellist FOR ME!! Not for you to show how selfish you are and KEEP IT!

Truly, I'm glad you are happy with the deal.

And I'm jealous of your hangar/banger rhyming pair.

A final note: Just talked to John Marien at Northeast Aerodynamics - planning another twin, a high winged trainer. How about that?

Let's fill the sky with our Duellist fleet,
. and cover the ground to fifty feet!

Bill

(in reply to OldRookie)

Well.... - 11/26/2002 7:09:24 AM

Posts: 5134
Joined: 12/5/2001
From: Pampa, TX, USA
Status: offline

I ain't found the second one yet! LOL

This guy is a good buddy, but he ain't a spring chicken and wanted to sell it. Last time I asked he wanted $300. I told him I was asking for a guy in Florida..he flat said he wouldn't ship it. Then he told me what he would sell it to me for and I had a memory loss...couldn't remember any eastern states at all.

Now...decisions. I have a NIB pair of OS 46VF's, but that's what I have on the current one. I also have a NIB pair of ST X45 RE Blueheads. And headers.. The X40 was a pretty hot engine..I've never run a .45. Nostalgia would play a part..period engines that ought to be a bit hotter than the SE engines of the day. And they is purty.

And I like the RE engines on a twin...

Mufflers on the side?? Not on MY ride!

_____________________________

Breaking the Speed of Sound, Straight Down!

(in reply to OldRookie)

Pica Duellist - 11/26/2002 7:24:38 AM

William Robison

Posts: 20269
Joined: 11/10/2002
From: Mary Esther, Florida, FL, USA
Status: offline

Chuck:

I like them hot myself. Minimum of 100mph in level flight. Use the ST engines. The OS VF's might be OK with a 36 to 48" span, but on the Duellist they would probably be Ho-Hum.

Chuck, have you heard anything more on the 85" Duellist Plus? The one you're arranging with the kit cutter?

A Duellist supersonic, now that's a real tonic!

Bill

(in reply to OldRookie)

46 VF's.. - 11/26/2002 7:46:34 AM

Posts: 5134
Joined: 12/5/2001
From: Pampa, TX, USA
Status: offline

William..the OS 46VF was one of the hottest 46's made by OS.. they quit making them a few years ago..but I was able to retain a NIB set for just such an emergency. They are not purely stock anymore, but will turn an APC 9 X 8 at 17.4K static on pipes. They only turned 16.5K before massaging. Take a look at my Duellist to get an idea of the symmetrical beauty of RE engines. The OS's will more than likely out-turn the ST X45's even stock, but I have a fast Duellist already..LOL

If RPM you are a turnin', then nitro you be a burnin'!

_____________________________

Breaking the Speed of Sound, Straight Down!

(in reply to OldRookie)

twin aire - 11/26/2002 8:34:47 AM

Posts: 541
Joined: 11/8/2002
From: allenstown, NH, USA
Status: offline

hello,
i have the twin aire 20 which is the twin engined version of the sport air 40,they both fly like a dream but the airfoil used is not symetrical so precision aerobatics are not quite as good as the duellist.i would like to ask if the airfoil on the twin aire 45 is symetrical?thanks

(in reply to OldRookie)

Pica Duellist - 11/26/2002 9:52:15 AM

William Robison

Posts: 20269
Joined: 11/10/2002
From: Mary Esther, Florida, FL, USA
Status: offline

D**n, Chuck. 17.4k static on 9x8's? That is on fuel with 173% nitro, right? Whatever percentage, that's awesome. Throw them away. Let me know when, I'll hide in the trash can. Something like that pair should get you up around 135 or maybe even 140mph in level flight. Think they'll stay together at 185mph in a dive? getting up to 28000rpm? if you can pull 28k in flight with the 9x8 props that should get you around 190. The 17400 you mentioned will put you just a hair over 118mph with 90% prop efficiency, how fast will they turn in level flight? Any idea?

Seriously, something that hasn't been mentioned and should be:

USE NO Z-BENDS and make ALL LINK PIVOTS WITH BALL JOINTS! Also, seal all gaps. At the speeds we're talking the least control flutter can cause the airplane to disintegrate before your brain can tell your thumb to cut the throttle.

AND, you didn't respond concerning the kit cutter. Anything yet? YES I AM IMPATIENT! Too bad, Charlie.

Scalebldr:

The Twin-Aire 45 wing is almost symmetrical. The lower surface, from the spar back, is flat to allow building the wing flat on the board. But since the upper surface in that area doesn't have much curvature I think the effect will be minimal. My feeling about the T-A is that it should be built to be a gentle flyer even though it could be made to scream. I am sure you have gathered that with the Duellists we're talking real rockets, not your grandmother's Extra 300. Use the T-A to fly your Lomcevak. While the fast Duellist will give you a Czech headache too, it will be over too fast to enjoy it!

You turn that RPM, your twin, I no see 'em.

Bill

(in reply to OldRookie)

Easy now... - 11/26/2002 10:07:29 AM

Posts: 5134
Joined: 12/5/2001
From: Pampa, TX, USA
Status: offline

Don't get worked up, William. I put the Duellist into power dives every flight..I think one of the reasons I don't have engine outs is I never throttle back. And yes we figure 125~135 for speed. I have the pipes set to run at 19.5K, and it is very sweet.

Flying fast since '97, Duellist flying is just like heaven.

_____________________________

Breaking the Speed of Sound, Straight Down!

(in reply to OldRookie)

Pica Duellist - 11/26/2002 11:35:58 AM

William Robison

Posts: 20269
Joined: 11/10/2002
From: Mary Esther, Florida, FL, USA
Status: offline

Chuck:

I have you way beaten on that one. Uncle used to let me do my own driving, first went over 500 in 1959, worked up to supersonic the following year. Gee whiz. Driving from the outside is a different world, though. Really think it's easier inside, the blasted airplane can't fly behind a tree or get out of sight.

If you never throttle back... Hmm... I know! You replace the plane for every flight!

Your tuned point, 19.5k rpm, is 132.95 mph at that same 90% blade efficiency with the 9x8 props. Does it tickle your hard heart to know your observed phenomena agree with the calculated facts?

I will forgive you for forgetting there are any states to the east of Texas, but only this once. While you were out there stealing that framed-up Duellist (I know you knocked him over the head) I scored an early kit, with Dave Platt's name on the plan.

When it gets here, and when RCM finally gets their *** in gear and sends me the Mk II plan, with those and the RC-5 version I already have, we might make some sense out of all the angle variations. It is to hope.

A Duellist out of sight, is sure to give a fright.

Bill

(in reply to OldRookie)

Pica Duellist - 12/3/2002 3:46:13 AM

William Robison

Posts: 20269
Joined: 11/10/2002
From: Mary Esther, Florida, FL, USA
Status: offline

Okay, people, here's the latest on Duellist incidences.

Pica kit RC-5, Dave Platt credit.
. Engines: +7 down, 0-0 side.
. Wing: +2 root, 0 tip
. Stab: +2
Pica kit RC-5, Morton Tanger credit.
. Exactly the same.

So I don't know what to say about 0-0-0 except that it works on my scratch planes, and there is no such thing as a poorly flying Duellist. The Duellist Mk-II plan has STILL not arrived.

Twisted or straight, a twin flies great.

Bill

(in reply to OldRookie)

60 Size Duellist - 12/15/2002 5:33:58 AM

Posts: 129
Joined: 1/28/2002
From: Fayetteville, GA, USA
Status: offline

I've made some preliminary notes on mods that could be usefull on the enlarged MKII plans. These are some of the items I think will have to be considered (in no particular order of importance).
1. I've assumed a 25% enlargement over the original MKII plans, taking the W.S. from 69" to 86.25". Although this span is managable as a single panel (for me), I'd like to consider the option of joining two panels with a wing tube.
If a wing tube is used
- it should probably extend through Rib W-5, the out-board nacelle rib.
- W-2 through W-5 would be 1/8 lite ply.
- W-1 would be 3/16 lite ply to accomodate the joining, and redrawn to remove 1/4" spar ties.
- tube holes in ribs W-1 through W-5 will have to be located to accommodate dyhedral.
If single panel construction is used
- W-3 and W-4 would be 1/8 lite ply to help reinforce the retract mounts.

2. Ribs could be elongated to lessen the amount of L.E and T.E stock and retain the same airfoil profile. The L.E. on the original plan is shaped from 1/2x1" stock. This can still be used when the rib assumes more of the airfoil profile. The plan shows the T.E made of 1/4" sq sticks. This is not right. The T.E. thickness at W-1 is 5/16" on the original plan. This would be increased to about 3/8x1/4" T.E. stock, with the ribs extended.

3. The plan shows the wing sheeting covering both L.E and T.E. I don't think covering the L.E is necessary. I would butt the sheeting against the L.E. It seems more effort than it's worth to try to form the sheeting around the L.E.

4. Formers F-6 through F-10 could be extended to accommodate 3/16 top and bottom planking, instead of 1/4" planking. This would save some weight and not detract from the fuse strength. The same type treatment can be given to the nacelles.

5. All spar notches should be redrawn back to their original size from their center line to accept original spar dimensions. I don't think there is a need to increase the thickness of any of the spars.

6. The 1/4" sq jig will be increased to 5/16" to retain the same rate of wash-out.

7. I would like to consider airfoils for the stab and fin. Maybe similar to the airfoils used on the Giles or Extra.

8. Instead of wing tip blocks, the tips could be built up or sheeted foam, saves weight.

9. Substitute a clear vacuum formed canopy for the built up version.

10. I will be installing flaps.

These are some of my ideas that came to mind while looking through the plans. As I mentioned before, I'm not planning to start this project in the immediate future. But my timing may be influenced by the amount of interest of some of you who replied to this thread. Since I live close to this kit cutter I could help work out some of the details. I would be using this kit cutter to cut out just the ribs and formers. This will save me a lot of preliminary building time.

I'd like to know what the rest of you think.

Ernest

(in reply to OldRookie)

Pica Duellist - 12/15/2002 6:33:42 AM

William Robison

Posts: 20269
Joined: 11/10/2002
From: Mary Esther, Florida, FL, USA
Status: offline

Ernest:

I like your mods, with some few changes.

1) While I also can accomodate an 86" wing, when possible I choose not to have wing sections larger than 50" or so, for easier handling. Two piece is the way to go. But remember we must have clearance for the retracts, specifically the wheels themselves.

2) Definitely agree on extending the ribs.

3) Keeping the lapped joint is stronger than the butted joint, I'd stay with the lap.

4) I would drop the thickness to 1/8" max on the fuselage sheeting, with the engines on the wings the fuse doesn't have much load on it even at extreme G's. Might want to stay with 3/16" on the nacelles, for the same reason.

5) Definitely stay with the smaller spars. Total agreement.

6) I could argue here, all my scratches are built without any washout - I avoid fllying slowly enough to worry about it - except on landings. But since the original flies so sweetly do it with 5/16".

7) Airfoiled or not, the stab and v/fin should be built up. If airfoiled, suggest a 40 or 50% peak for all the empennage surfaces, and fairly thin.

8) Or just a sheet of balsa with gussets and plank it.

9) Both of my Duellists have formed clear canopies. Does the Mk II show a framework for it? MAN sent me a note saying the Mk II plan was not available, and hasn't responded to my note to them saying "Huh?"

10) Use a torque rod with a single servo for the flaps, hide the aileron servos in the nacelles. The airplane is too pretty to have the servos hanging in the breeze.

If I had a hobby shop with decent stock closer than 100 miles I'd agree on having the cutter supply ribs and formers only. However. If he will supply all the wood, without adding too much to Riley Wooten's prices it would be much more convenient to have it all from one source. If he wants too big a margin I'd call Lone Star Balsa myself. But I thought the price mentioned, lo these many posts ago, was for the complete package. No?

Bigger win? Bigger twin!

Bill.

_____________________________

Real Airplanes have Two Engines
AMA 25139 - More than 40 years.

(in reply to OldRookie)

Pica Duellist - 12/15/2002 8:34:42 AM

Posts: 129
Joined: 1/28/2002
From: Fayetteville, GA, USA
Status: offline

William,

Thanks for your reply. Your comments about the overlapping sheeting are on the mark. To retain the airfoil, if I butted the sheet, I would have to redraw each rib to allow for the sheeting thickness where it meets the L.E. Forgot that.

The wing tube would run just behind the main spar. I guessed a 3/4" tube with phenolic sheet will allow for 3"-3 1/2" wheels. Prop clearance will be achieved through the length of the strut and modifying the wheel bay to accommodate the length.

If the fuse planking can be reduced to 1/8", this would make the structure even lighter. I think you're right about the fuse having enough strength.

The nacelles could be made stronger and lighter