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RE: AMA lawyers - 9/12/2010 4:03 AM

bradpaul

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Come on Kid put up or shut up.............

After three years as a Open Member dbcisco can become a Leader Member and run for an EC Office...... can he win? beats the he(double hockey sticks) out of me but IMHO no way.

So why are you not a Leader Member? You have opinions some are right on, some are not, but the way to create change and do more then just talk about it is to be a leader member. Assuming you can find the references to sign your application. Strange as it may seem I would sign it as I think you do care about the future of the AMA.

Brad

< Message edited by bradpaul -- 9/12/2010 5:11 AM >

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RE: AMA lawyers - 9/12/2010 5:42 AM

Silent-AV8R

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quote:

ORIGINAL: KidEpoxy
They say no, you say yes... interesting development

What I was saying is that the EC often approves people who are not "good ole' boys" to become leader members and recently a relative newcomer was approved to be a candiate for the EC.

So in 3 years if DB can become a leader member he could potentially get on the ballot. Not saying this is likely, but it is possible.

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RE: AMA lawyers - 9/12/2010 6:16 AM

RC_AVIGATOR

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quote:

ORIGINAL: dbcisco

Well folks I just got a letter from the AMA's lawyers telling me to stop defaming them here on RCU ot they will take legal action against me.
Our dues at work.

I'd like to see a copy of the leter -why don't you post a copy? (if you have already please indicate post #)

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RE: AMA lawyers - 9/12/2010 6:31 AM

khartman

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Sounds like your a.m.a. dollars are hard at work.

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RE: AMA lawyers - 9/12/2010 6:33 AM

dbcisco

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Page 5 of this thread 6 posts down.

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RE: AMA lawyers - 9/12/2010 8:16 AM

Arbo

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I find the leader member thing to be kind of funny. You need to have 3 of the current ones sign you in... yet when you look at the list Horace put up, several are the ones that bad mouth others who suggest change, calling them 'bashers' or moderating away their comments on the AMA's forum...

That's certainly not a little good ol'boys club setup... nah...

I'd love to see the leader member applications put in by those that are currently leader members. Might be quite funny.

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RE: AMA lawyers - 9/12/2010 8:26 AM

dbcisco

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One party and if you want to run you have to be party approved.
I am suprised so many think this is wonderful. Bet they would love China, maybe go work in the hobby industry there.

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RE: AMA lawyers - 9/12/2010 9:10 AM

mongo

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so far, in about 30 years of leader member status, i have yet to refuse to endorse anyone's leader member app. course, out here in the wastelands, i have only been asked a coupla times, so far.

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RE: AMA lawyers - 9/12/2010 4:06 PM

Hossfly

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Silent-AV8R

quote:

ORIGINAL: dbcisco

As usual I had to look it up myself. In a nutshell, the structure of the AMA is such that only candidates approved by the current administration can run. That is like a government where the party in power can refuse to allow opposing parties to have a candidate in elections. Scarry that so many think this is wonderful.

And yet they approved the candidacy of a brand new Leader Member with no previous experience with the AMA or even a club to run for District X VP. Sort of shoots the ''good ole' boy'' theory all to pieces.

AV*R, if I thought you really believed this I would not post this, however IMO you are flinging potty stuff just to try to sidestep an issue.
There will always be up to 3 names on the ballot if elgible persons are nominated by qualified AMA members. To do otherwise would take some serious explaining.

ARTICLE IX
Nominations and Elections

Section 1. AMA officers shall be nominated by a Nominating
Committee composed of the District Vice Presidents (or an Open
member from the district of the absent Vice President as
designated by the absent Vice President), and the Executive Vice
President (or an Open member as designated by the absent
Executive Vice President). The Nominating Committee shall
operate annually and under procedures defined in the Standing
Rules attached to these Bylaws. The Nominating Committee shall
be responsible for nominating the candidates for each office to be
vacated at the end of the year.

(d) Ballot is limited to three (3) nominees, but not required, per
office.

Voting:
(a) If only three names are submitted for a district or national
office, the chairperson may move for a nomination by
acclamation.

_____________________________

Horrace Cain AMA L-93

“Peace is the brief glorious moment in history when everyone stands around reloading." T. Jefferson

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RE: AMA lawyers - 9/12/2010 4:56 PM

Eplane65

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quote:

ORIGINAL: dbcisco

Funny how I got this:

A few days after I recieved this:

This is a strange letter. Regardless of whether dbcisco is a ranting nut or has a legitimate beef about the AMA, I can't see why any competent legal firm would send a letter such as this to an individual who rants on a forum such as RCU. Heavens, there are thousands out there that do the same thing every day. I supsect a turd has been uncovered here and the smell is starting to bother someone.

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RE: AMA lawyers - 9/12/2010 5:35 PM

mountaineer070

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Quote: "I do have a REAL honest question as to the origin of the "legal" document from the lawyers, and please only respond if you are a lawyer and KNOW the answer for a fact, not hearsay......Why did an organization in Indiana hire lawyers in Ohio to go after someone in PA? THAT raises a red flag in my opinion(not being a lawyer), and gives question to this being from someone who has an issue with db, and not actually from the AMA. I thought lawyers had to be licensed in the state they practice in? Wouldn't they either have to be from Indiana where the AMA is located , or PA where db is?"

First, I am not an attorney, but have studied business law in college, and worked with a lot of lawyers over the years. The short answer to your question is this, law firms are not like they used to be...a small town operation. Those exit too, but for the sake of this discussion, law firms today are normally huge...with corporate headquarters in one state but licensed to practice in several states...indeed some are licensed to practice in all 50 states.

So, it is not uncommon for a law firm in Texas to represent a client in Missouri, or some other state. This allows firms to hire lawyers who have special expertise in say tax laws, corporation law, libel, or some other aspect of the legal system. In some instances, organizations like AMA do not have in-house lawyers, rather they hire outside firms...and normally have one or two law firms on retainer.

I worked for one of the alphabet organizations for several years and not only did they have staff attorneys, they also had two or three outside law firms to depend on for different legal issues.

On another issue, the IRS has been known to take up residency in an organization's headquarters for months on end reviewing financial statements, tax filings, and look at all sources of revenue. This costs the corporation office space for this agent. What they find is dealt with as issues are discovered and corrected. No big splash in the Wall Street Journal, New York Times...and not one iota of anything on any of the forums. So, don't expect to see anything come from a person's claims against the AMA. It won't even make the daily news.

I would give this advice...printed equals libel...spoken equals slander. So, if anyone thinks that the 1st Amendment protects them from a law suit for libel...keep typing. What is said on this forum is just as binding as if it were spread up the headlines of a newspaper. Look at the law suits that have hit the National Inquirer...and those who wrote the stories hid behind the 1st Amendment, even when what they wrote was false. If you have issues...take them to the source...protect yourself against losing all of your assets because you thought or even know that you are right. Being right doesn't mean that someone cannot take legal action to demand proof...then there is that sticky thing called legal defense...which can cost thousands. Some might say they can defend themselves...but in some states you are required to be represented by counsel. Nuff said for now.

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RE: AMA lawyers - 9/12/2010 6:03 PM

KidEpoxy

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"Why did an organization in Indiana hire lawyers in Ohio to go after someone in PA?"

ROFLOL

quote:

What they find is dealt with as issues are discovered and corrected. No big splash in the Wall Street Journal, New York Times...and not one iota of anything on any of the forums. So, don't expect to see anything come from a person's claims against the AMA. It won't even make the daily news.

it seems you are unfamiliar withe the 'Un-named but reliable sources' system of Muncie leaks,
please refer to the Lawnmower thread for education in this regard

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RE: AMA lawyers - 9/12/2010 6:29 PM

bradpaul

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Actually under the defamation laws of the United States the letter from the AMA law firm was very artfully constructed. There are setting up an allegation of Defamation "per se" in that the statements are "Allegations or imputations of criminal activity (sometimes only crimes of moral turpitude)" to whit tax fraud and mail fraud.

Here is the kicker about Defamation "per se" .....

Defamation per se: All states except Arizona, Arkansas, Missouri, and Tennessee recognize that some categories of false statements are so innately harmful that they are considered to be defamatory per se. In the common law tradition, damages for such false statements are presumed and do not have to be proven.

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RE: AMA lawyers - 9/12/2010 6:32 PM

Silent-AV8R

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Arbo

I find the leader member thing to be kind of funny. You need to have 3 of the current ones sign you in... yet when you look at the list Horace put up, several are the ones that bad mouth others who suggest change, calling them 'bashers' or moderating away their comments on the AMA's forum...

There are something like 3,000 or 4,000 Leader Members. Hoss listed the names of the 5 or 6 of them on a new Committee working to increase the effectiveness of the program. One can also get 3 open members to sign the application and then have it approved by the DVP.

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RE: AMA lawyers - 9/12/2010 7:18 PM

The_Mad_Hatter_632

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i've gone through all of this and the guy said it happened on the AMA forum not the RCU forum !

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RE: AMA lawyers - 9/12/2010 9:20 PM

tinner1

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mountaineer070,

Thank You for your reply. Even though you admit to not being a lawyer, your answer seems quite logical if not in fact legal. Thank you for the insight.

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RE: AMA lawyers - 9/12/2010 9:33 PM

mountaineer070

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Quote: "'Un-named but reliable sources' system of Muncie leaks,"

Yeah sure...what I do with anonomous information is drop it in a trash can. And how do you or anyone know whether or not the "un-named but reliable sources" is anything other than a disgruntled employee?

Anytime anyone remains un-named or anonomous...their information is most likely un-reliable, or intentionally misleading. Whistle-blowers on the other hand, may indeed offer information that points out mismanagement.

I find it interesting that someone would make it known that they received information form an un-named but reiable source...for now the organization knows that they have a person who is providing information without authorization and now they are being sought after and when found out...look out.

My question remains...why are you or any other so determined to go after AMA? Have they taken your flying field away or something as sinister? So what if they do not follow their Articles of Incorporation to the letter? Name one organization that does? The Articles of Incorporation is a document that necessarily contains broad statements that are then addressed in the organization's by-laws. Now, and I agree, this document provides broad guidelines for management of the organizaition, and the BOD or other governing body is required to follow the bylaws as closely as possible.

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RE: AMA lawyers - 9/12/2010 9:57 PM

dbcisco

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Why do we go after anyone suspected of illegal activity?
If you see something fishy and don't call the authorities, you are not much of a citizen.

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RE: AMA lawyers - 9/12/2010 10:25 PM

bradpaul

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quote:

ORIGINAL: dbcisco

Why do we go after anyone suspected of illegal activity?
If you see something fishy and don't call the authorities, you are not much of a citizen.

dbcisco are you talking in general or are you actually accusing the AMA of engaging in illegal activity?

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RE: AMA lawyers - 9/12/2010 10:32 PM

buzzard350

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Maybe you should channel your energies into doing something constructive... You will then find that any action on your part will generate a chorus of onlookers who tell you how they would have done 'it' - _IF_ they were going to do it [which they were not, they were just interested in pointing out what they perceived as errors on your part, usually not considering all the things that influenced the action]
Perhaps then you will understand the frustratrion of the 'do-ers' at the constant sniping from the sideline critics and conspiracy theorists...and the occasional need to defend themselves from these guys.
My advice: Don't be one of those guys.

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RE: AMA lawyers - 9/12/2010 10:43 PM

dbcisco

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quote:

ORIGINAL: mountaineer070
...So what if they do not follow their Articles of Incorporation to the letter?...

1. The purposes stated in an NPO's Articles of Incorporation are the sole reason for it receiving tax exempt status. To not fulfill that purpose and maintain that status is illegal.
2. The purpose of the AMA as stated in its AoI are "The primary object of the corporation shall be to promote the educational and scientific aspects of model aviation." This is why the AMA has 501(c)(3) NPO status.
3. AMA chartered clubs are not 501(c)(3) NPO's, they are 501(c)(7) NPO's because flying planes is considered a sport activity not an educational or scientific activity.

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RE: AMA lawyers - 9/13/2010 12:01 AM

KidEpoxy

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quote:

Yeah sure...what I do with anonomous information is drop it in a trash can. And how do you or anyone know whether or not the "un-named but reliable sources" is anything other than a disgruntled employee?

Anytime anyone remains un-named or anonomous...their information is most likely un-reliable, or intentionally misleading. Whistle-blowers on the other hand, may indeed offer information that points out mismanagement.

ouch
thats kinda a harsh thiing to say
about the guys defending AMA by posting leaks from closed door muncie meeting

quote:

I find it interesting that someone would make it known that they received information form an un-named but reiable source...for now the organization knows that they have a person who is providing information without authorization and now they are being sought after and when found out...look out.

yeah, that is indeed interesting
one does wonder what happened to the guy that leaked that info from a low attendance closed door meeting

anyhoo, as I said, its been gone over ad nauseum in the Lawnmower thread,
I was just referring you to that thread for the whole enchilada of the Leak Lowdown

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RE: AMA lawyers - 9/13/2010 12:52 AM

dbcisco

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"un-named but reiable source"
Turn off the TV and radio news then get rid of any newspapers and news magazines. Burn all religious texts while your at it too.
It's all rubbish.

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RE: AMA lawyers - 9/13/2010 12:54 AM

Arbo

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quote:

ORIGINAL: dbcisco

quote:

ORIGINAL: mountaineer070
...So what if they do not follow their Articles of Incorporation to the letter?...

1. The purposes stated in an NPO's Articles of Incorporation are the sole reason for it receiving tax exempt status. To not fulfill that purpose and maintain that status is illegal.
2. The purpose of the AMA as stated in its AoI are ''The primary object of the corporation shall be to promote the educational and scientific aspects of model aviation.'' This is why the AMA has 501(c)(3) NPO status.
3. AMA chartered clubs are not 501(c)(3) NPO's, they are 501(c)(7) NPO's because flying planes is considered a sport activity not an educational or scientific activity.

#1 and #2 are actually correct. But #3 is not true. While most are indeed (7)'s, there are some that are (3)'s, organized to promote the educational aspects of model aviation. Those those organizations, and those involved,
probably know a little bit about the (3) rules and requirements.

I am still curious to see this 'proof' of wrongdoing that you claimed...

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RE: AMA lawyers - 9/13/2010 1:02 AM

804

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Arbo

quote:

ORIGINAL: dbcisco

quote:

ORIGINAL: mountaineer070
...So what if they do not follow their Articles of Incorporation to the letter?...

1. The purposes stated in an NPO's Articles of Incorporation are the sole reason for it receiving tax exempt status. To not fulfill that purpose and maintain that status is illegal.
2. The purpose of the AMA as stated in its AoI are ''The primary object of the corporation shall be to promote the educational and scientific aspects of model aviation.'' This is why the AMA has 501(c)(3) NPO status.
3. AMA chartered clubs are not 501(c)(3) NPO's, they are 501(c)(7) NPO's because flying planes is considered a sport activity not an educational or scientific activity.

#1 and #2 are actually correct. But #3 is not true. While most are indeed (7)'s, there are some that are (3)'s, organized to promote the educational aspects of model aviation. Those those organizations, and those involved,
probably know a little bit about the (3) rules and requirements.

I am still curious to see this 'proof' of wrongdoing that you claimed...

I think he's after a reward.

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