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Thread: Larger rockets


  1. #1

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    Larger rockets

    Morning all,

    I've been a modeler all my life and been flying rockets since grade school. I still get out a few times a year and send an Estes rocket up and sometimes even get it back!! While I enjoy those I've continued to get interested in something with greater power that will reach higher altitudes. I have a place to fly big enough to handle the greater demands but don't know where to find higher power or where to go to learn more about it. What is anyone doing in rocketry these days? Around here, while I don't often see it the local Hobby Town is moving enough products that someone is launching more than a few. Thanks for some information leads.


    Rick H.

  2. #2

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    Have a look at" Public Missiles Ltd."
    That will give you an idea of some of what is available.

  3. #3
    Bob Jablonski's Avatar
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    Bigger rockets are out there. Big chains don't sell a lot of them as they don't have the turn overrate as the typical Estes type kits. A good place to start is in Mid power where you can get a good feel of bigger more powerful rockets. Also check out National Association of Rocketry and Tripoli. They have groups all over the country. They can help you learn the ropes so to speak and many have large fields and faa waivers to fly way bigger rockets then the typical model rocket. If you have spacific questions post and we will do our best to help. Just remember some things (like folding parachutes) there are a number of different ways of doing it, and none are wrong.
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  4. #4
    scottrc's Avatar
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    Here are the links for both the NAR and Tripoli websites and find a local club.
    http://www.nar.org/
    http://www.tripoli.org/
    If you love your plane, set it free, if it doesn't return, you can blame the FAA.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by 308jockey View Post
    Morning all,

    I've been a modeler all my life and been flying rockets since grade school. I still get out a few times a year and send an Estes rocket up and sometimes even get it back!! While I enjoy those I've continued to get interested in something with greater power that will reach higher altitudes. I have a place to fly big enough to handle the greater demands but don't know where to find higher power or where to go to learn more about it. What is anyone doing in rocketry these days? Around here, while I don't often see it the local Hobby Town is moving enough products that someone is launching more than a few. Thanks for some information leads.


    Rick H.
    Bigger is better but as the size goes up so does the cost. Re-loadable is the only way to go. You can only go so big till you need your Level 1 ( I'm looking to get mine) to buy larger motors. Look at Areotech's stuff to get you started.

    http://www.aerotech-rocketry.com/

    Mike
    Last edited by rcmiket; 06-14-2016 at 04:24 AM.

    We can lick gravity, but sometimes the paperwork is overwhelming. - W. Von Braun

    Someone please explain to me how flying with FPV goggles on is LOS Flying.

  6. #6
    Moderator collector1231's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rcmiket View Post
    Bigger is better but as the size goes up so does the cost. Re-loadable is the only way to go. You can only go so big till you need your Level 1 ( I'm looking to get mine) to buy larger motors. Look at Areotech's stuff to get you started.

    http://www.aerotech-rocketry.com/

    Mike
    F50 in Aerotech is the limit for the motor you can fly without a license, as well.


    To the OP, before going bigger, try multi engine rockets if you can. They are quite a bit cheaper to launch than a single F or high E motor.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by collector1231 View Post
    F50 in Aerotech is the limit for the motor you can fly without a license, as well.
    The NAR safety code and model rocket motor definitions don't say this.

    http://www.nar.org/safety-informatio...t-safety-code/
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    Bob Jablonski's Avatar
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    Actualy you can fly up to a G80 with out a NAR or TRA card. Anything over a 100 (say a G101) is verboten unless you are a member of one of those 2 groups. Also with the Advent of the Aerotech DMS motors they are not much more then a reload and you don't have to buy a case. Most DMS motors are MSRP in the $30.00 range and some vendors discount that. and a 29-180 reload system without the reload MSRP is $54.95 But the reloads can be shipped without Hazmat and the reloads are MSRP in the $21.00 range. It all depends on how serious you want to get. I know alot of people who used DMS to certify with a DMS motor then get hooked and then get a case and fly more. Hope I did not get you more confused. Also it may be a good Idea to Look on the NAR and TRA web sites and see if there is a group close to you. Even if you arn't a member Most will go out of there way to help you.
    Mr. Bob
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    Quote Originally Posted by 308jockey View Post
    Morning all,

    I've been a modeler all my life and been flying rockets since grade school. I still get out a few times a year and send an Estes rocket up and sometimes even get it back!! While I enjoy those I've continued to get interested in something with greater power that will reach higher altitudes. I have a place to fly big enough to handle the greater demands but don't know where to find higher power or where to go to learn more about it. What is anyone doing in rocketry these days? Around here, while I don't often see it the local Hobby Town is moving enough products that someone is launching more than a few. Thanks for some information leads.
    Rick H.
    From the small to outrageously big, THE place to hang out:

    http://www.rocketryforum.com/

  10. #10
    rcmiket's Avatar
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    Thinking of getting my Level 1. Madcow DX3 is what I'm looking at any thoughts?

    Mike

    We can lick gravity, but sometimes the paperwork is overwhelming. - W. Von Braun

    Someone please explain to me how flying with FPV goggles on is LOS Flying.

  11. #11
    Bob Jablonski's Avatar
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    That would be a good rocket to get your L1 with.
    Mr. Bob
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  12. #12
    rcmiket's Avatar
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    Thanks that's what my research indicated and I could go Level 2 with it. Researching reloads and hardware now. I use Aerotech in my 29mm stuff and keep seeing Loki Research come up. Any advise? We have no NAR Chapter here so I'll start one in conjunction with my flying club. There's a NAR Chapter about a hour from here and I'm going to head on up there for the monthly launch tomorrow and spick a few brains.

    Thanks
    Mike

    We can lick gravity, but sometimes the paperwork is overwhelming. - W. Von Braun

    Someone please explain to me how flying with FPV goggles on is LOS Flying.

  13. #13
    Bob Jablonski's Avatar
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    Loki Makes some good stuff and most of there 38mm reloads do not need a Hazmat fee. A good Idea about going to some NAR (or TRA) launches befor going for L1 as you will probably pick up some good ideas. If you are going motor ejection instead of electronic deployment you may want to take a look at the Jolly Logic Chute release. Save your self from a lot of walking.
    Mr. Bob
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  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Jablonski View Post
    Loki Makes some good stuff and most of there 38mm reloads do not need a Hazmat fee. A good Idea about going to some NAR (or TRA) launches befor going for L1 as you will probably pick up some good ideas. If you are going motor ejection instead of electronic deployment you may want to take a look at the Jolly Logic Chute release. Save your self from a lot of walking.
    Mr. Bob
    Countyline Hobbies
    Thanks Bob.

    Mike

    We can lick gravity, but sometimes the paperwork is overwhelming. - W. Von Braun

    Someone please explain to me how flying with FPV goggles on is LOS Flying.

  15. #15

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    Join a club! The club typically has the waiver for larger birds. I drive an hour for mine (and cross the US border to do so!) otherwise it's at least a 2 hr drive to the next closest field. And, you'll need to join either NAR or Tripoli for the club.. NAR is typically lower power, whereas Tripoli is typically higher power & experimental.

    You'll need your Level 1 when you get to: models larger than 1.5kg, 62.5g of propellant, and 160N total thrust. Anything over these needs L1 and / or an FAA waiver. (A G64 has over 62.5g or propellant, hence it's considered a 'high power' motor) And you'll need your L1 to buy larger motors..

    Most will start with Aerotech Motors, then switch over to Cesseroni as they get more involved. Madcow have an excellent array of kits to choose from, many well suited to an L1 or L2 attempt. (And Mike is easy to talk to!) Also look at LOC/Precision and Binder Designs.
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  16. #16
    rcmiket's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dr_wogz View Post
    Join a club! The club typically has the waiver for larger birds. I drive an hour for mine (and cross the US border to do so!) otherwise it's at least a 2 hr drive to the next closest field. And, you'll need to join either NAR or Tripoli for the club.. NAR is typically lower power, whereas Tripoli is typically higher power & experimental.

    You'll need your Level 1 when you get to: models larger than 1.5kg, 62.5g of propellant, and 160N total thrust. Anything over these needs L1 and / or an FAA waiver. (A G64 has over 62.5g or propellant, hence it's considered a 'high power' motor) And you'll need your L1 to buy larger motors..

    Most will start with Aerotech Motors, then switch over to Cesseroni as they get more involved. Madcow have an excellent array of kits to choose from, many well suited to an L1 or L2 attempt. (And Mike is easy to talk to!) Also look at LOC/Precision and Binder Designs.
    Well I'm finishing up my Mad Cow 38mm DX3 Payloader ( my L1 attempt build). Picked up a decent pad and ordered a rail. I went with Areo-Tech reload system since that's what I've been using in my 29mm stuff. Figured I'd sell off the hardware down the road when I switch over to whatever motors I decide to go with.
    I joined the club about a hour from here really nice guys who are willing to help me out. Turns out about 2 hours from here they do High Power launches once a month and have a waiver to 25,000 that should be interesting.
    A couple of us have started a NAR chapter here in conjunction with my flying club. Were pouring a pad this weekend and scheduling monthly launches in the hope we can get this rolling here. Should be interesting pretty quick. I'm looking at getting FAA waivers and so on for our site.

    Mike

    We can lick gravity, but sometimes the paperwork is overwhelming. - W. Von Braun

    Someone please explain to me how flying with FPV goggles on is LOS Flying.

  17. #17
    Bob Jablonski's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rcmiket View Post
    Well I'm finishing up my Mad Cow 38mm DX3 Payloader ( my L1 attempt build). Picked up a decent pad and ordered a rail. I went with Areo-Tech reload system since that's what I've been using in my 29mm stuff. Figured I'd sell off the hardware down the road when I switch over to whatever motors I decide to go with.
    I joined the club about a hour from here really nice guys who are willing to help me out. Turns out about 2 hours from here they do High Power launches once a month and have a waiver to 25,000 that should be interesting.
    A couple of us have started a NAR chapter here in conjunction with my flying club. Were pouring a pad this weekend and scheduling monthly launches in the hope we can get this rolling here. Should be interesting pretty quick. I'm looking at getting FAA waivers and so on for our site.

    Mike
    Great. Dont forget to try and get kids hooked. There enthusiasum can be contagious.
    Mr. Bob
    Countyline Hobbies

  18. #18
    rcmiket's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Jablonski View Post
    Great. Dont forget to try and get kids hooked. There enthusiasum can be contagious.
    Mr. Bob
    Countyline Hobbies
    Actually that's the plan. The club I just joined up the road is does a lot of stuff in conjunction with schools and kids. We hope to do the same here.

    Mike

    We can lick gravity, but sometimes the paperwork is overwhelming. - W. Von Braun

    Someone please explain to me how flying with FPV goggles on is LOS Flying.

  19. #19

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    All good info above. I used to fly high power in the early 90's, before most of it was regulated. I was a Tripoli member, they are the ones to contact for good education. As stated, bigger is certainly better, but the price goes up faster than the rockets do. It's a contagious hobby, the bigger you go, the bigger you want to go. Reloadables were just getting started when I was flying, and hybrid propellants were starting development. The largest I ever flew was a L motor, but J and K were what I flew mostly. Back then you didn't have levels to qualify for. You flew an 'H' under supervision, and then you could go as big as your wallet allowed.

    I enjoyed building about as much as launching. If it's still in print, find a copy of Peter Alway's book, Rockets of the World. It has diagrams and dimensions of practically every sounding rocket and launch vehicle ever made from the '50s on. Perfect for building scale, which was what I liked best. The Honest John I have over my shoulder (this picture is 20 years old) was scaled up from the Estes kit, with reference to the Alway book. It's 1/4 scale, scratch built, and could use 38mm and 54mm motors. It would reach 8000 feet on a K550. The smaller model is a 1/5 scale Black Brant sounding rocket, also built using Alway's book. It had a 38mm mount and could use anything up to a K. I got over 10,000 feet with a K550, I had a radio beacon in it to help locate it for recovery.Click image for larger version. 

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    Last edited by khodges; 02-17-2017 at 10:33 PM.
    Club Saito #2, WACO Brotherhood #20. What other trouble can I get into?


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