L_J_Engineering

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O8kG2...eature=related

Stick40

umm... looks nice and dangerouse

Stick 40

khodges

My Feedback: (1)

Looks like "Rocket Boys" has gone Down Under. coulda swore I heard a Kookaburra, or however you spell it. If you haven't read the book, "Rocket Boys" is a must. It's the book that the movie "October Skies" was taken from. In it, he tells about how they mixed their propellants, and tested it by throwing a bit in the coal-fired hot water heater's firebox. They had to get another heater after that

TFF

http://www.nakka-rocketry.net/

50+AirYears

While watching the video, I just started having flashbacks to the columns written by G. Harry Stine (for you SF fans out there, AKA Lee J. Corey) back in the early 1950s in the old Air Trails and maybe early ATHFYM. Used to show some rather graphic photos of what can happen to hands and eyes if a person isn't careful during the grinding and tamping. Burns and severe shrapnel injuries. Even a few fatalities.

If you try making your own like this, be VERY careful!!

ChopperMike

I've been into rockets since the late 60's and a few years ago had toyed with the idea of making my own motors. Fortunately sanity returned and I realized how dangerous it can be trying to do this. It's just not worth the risk.



Mike

PENGUINBLASTER!!!

Use a 9" length of copper pipe, fill it up with kno3 cap it off with pipe caps, drill a hole in 1 end and try that.

50+AirYears

I think it was his coverage of amatuer rocketry and seeing the severity of the injuries from the home-made rocket engines that finally led Dr. Stine to start his own company to make safe and dependable rocket motors for hobbiests. Lets, see, was it Centauri? Made a MAJOR reduction in injuries, and probbly helped grow the hobby to what it is today.

I probably wouldn't have gotten into model rockets after reading his collumns and seeing some of the accompanying photos. Just never thought something that resembled playing Russian Roulette with a loaded automatic or with 6 rounds in a cylinder, which is what home-made rocket motors impressed me as, had much attraction. Still doesn't, in fact.

ChopperMike

Actually it was Vern Estes. Harry Stine who started Model Missiles Inc. contacted Vern Estes to make model rocket engines for MMI and then started making parts and kits with his own company. I believe Vern also made engines for a time for Centuri before both were bought by Damon Ind.

Even in the High Power end of the hobby, making your own motors is more an issue of being able to say you made every part of the rocket than it is about cost. To make your own motors safely and reliably will cost more than simply buying them. I personally don't have the time to mess with trying to figure out how to make my own motors anyway. I'd rather fly them!


Mike

balsaeater

You only got to look at inverse engineering with his H class rockets at less than ~$20 in materials to see that the price fom the shops is way to expensive for most hobby rocket guys

The last year inverse engineering saw he was so cheap that he changed his www. inverse ngineering . com site (EDIT CORRECT LINK http://www.inverseengineering.com/ )and started charging a lot more money for ready made kits that are still the cheapest out there but its still more expensive than if you source your own stuff

Tree stump remover followed with a bit of heating and then PVC pipe and clay nozzles and a H class rocket often for 1/10 the price of the commercial B class stuff

Lucky for me I downloaded and saved the whole Inverse engineering site a few years back before he changed it to the new one

I am still trying get the tree stump remover imported as the last few batches posted to me went AWOL probably lifted by the customs as it is a controlled substance
probably by the fun wreckers checkers of illicit imports

Balsaeater

ChopperMike

Interesting! I checked out Inverse Engineering (by the way, your link doesn't work, there's an "e" missing). I can see a couple of problems. First off, these are not certified motors so you can't launch them at just any launch, you'll have to wait for an experimental launch. A person can buy KNO3 but not in large quantities or often. I purchased 1 lb of it for making a pyrogen for igniters and quickly learned that most suppliers of it won't sell it to you in large quantities, at least not w/o an LEUP. Those places that would were having legal issues.

Bottom line is: If you're going to do this, be VERY CAREFUL and do it outside. I'd also recommend checking with the local fire authorities and also with the ATF. After all, you don't want to end up in prison just to save a few bucks! For me, like I said, not worth it!


Mike

balsaeater

The correct link sorry previous post edited with correct link
http://www.inverseengineering.com

A few examples of sources for KNO3 of the multitude of KNO3 sources that exist out there

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IYlmRwUQcp8

hardware shop tree stump removal plastic bottle to show where to buy the KNO3

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TsZXF...eature=related
similar info hardware shop tree stump removal plastic bottle to show where to buy the KNO3

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=igdtv...eature=related
how to extract the the KNO3 from tree stump remover with cooking

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PHnoY...eature=related

how to make KNO3 from other chemicals


As most people will make the small 300 gram rockets like the first vidio that goes only ~500 feet I don,t think there is a ATC issues sub 500 feet unless your within 20 miles of an international airport or 5 miles from a small airstrip

If one decided to copy the inverse engineering solutions and do H , I , J or K rockets or even bigger then ATC would be an issue and requires going to suitable desolate spots and conforming to local fire hazard rules and ATC and verifying the local government rules

Making of gun powder in some countries is reputed to be illegal but cheap gun powder can be extracted from firework rockets fairly cheap and other solutions like home brew flash powder and thermite all shown on you tube for the home brew brigade or cappassitor possibilties exist
http://www.inverseengineering.com/Pages/1999/Pulse.html

In Europe certian countries you will never get permission to fire any rockets either becase fire works are illegal so therfore rockets are illegal or ATC rules against it mostly to do with civilian control over the airspace so you probably have to go across a frontier to fire the rockets
In others countries the military control the airspace and often the rules there are fairly lax for small aA,B ,C ,Dand E rockets and even bigger rockets F,G,and H rules are fairly easy provided your well clear of the main corridors and controlled airspace (online maps exist for this ) so a few days notice ahead of time to ATC will be eneogh and some even can give annual ticket to fire from that location with a ~5000 foot ceiling much the same rule as high flying large glider aeromodelling fields
I have heard of of some bigger rockets doing a 10,000 foot plus launches done on the back of airstrips and local airstrip activity with rockets doing the first activity and the hot air ballons or planes following after having used the rockets streamer trail to verify the high up winds

Biggest problems are ground fires so often it is not possible to do any fire risk model planes lipos and Kerosene jet turbines pulse jets or rockets in summer months in certian sectors

A very favoured place tends to be desolate tidal estuary's where there is huge beach exposed at low tide and launch is timed for low tide
where low fire risks exist and often the sea launches are not covered under the same severe rules as it is classed as offshore activity

If the like of Aeroteck or Estres want to be part of the new revoltion in rocketry forged with the likes of the inverse engineering and similar they had better wake up and get prices more in line with the real world that often have access to some farmer joes farm in a desolote spot well away from the high viz and they launch how they like for buttons on the dollar

With you tube and web links the reality is it seems that lots of home brew go for it rocket guys are out there and not involved in club rules and launching a lot of rockets as the price is a lot less than commersial products and you mtube is testomony to the silent majority of home brew rocketry that seems to be out there at affordable prices

balsaeater

ChopperMike

Small motor or not it's still a violation of NAR rules so you better hope you don't cause any damage or injury or you're on your own!

In the US there's a definite distinction between fireworks and model rockets. Model rockets are legal virtually anywhere in the US whereas fireworks are illegal in most US states.

The price of commercially available rocket engines is not going to go down because some reckless hobbyists are experimenting with their own homebrew stuff.

Doesn't change the fact that it's dangerous, for the most part illegal and hurts all legitimate rocket hobbyists. Don't forget that every major rocket motor manufacturer has had serious fires and explosions at their facilities. Aerotech had one that nearly destroyed theirs. Estes had a very bad one early on that almost caused Vern Estes to close the doors. What makes some "farmer joes" think that they will be immune from the dangers. I'm not a big fan of increased rules and regulations myself but it appears that there are enough stupid people out there that need to be protected from hurting themselves and more importantly, others. The videos on youtube are perfect examples of this.

The more this kind of stuff continues the harder it will be for guys like me who use the safe motors to find a place to launch.


Mike

drivedog

Hybrid Motors are easy to make, I make them out of EMT (steel Tubing) and I use a modified pipe cutter to crimp the motors together. PVC is used for the fuel grain and N2o for the oxidizer. My last rocket went Mach 3.1 until it glitched. More @ http://www.rockethigh.com

ChopperMike

I wouldn't want to be too close to it when things go wrong![X(]



Mike

balsaeater

Way to go mach 3 plus

you are the man well done

I dont like the prices for the small ones so I presume i would not like the prices for those big ones

How much it costs ball park

Is it reuse able after it comes back from 70 miles up

Ralf

TraxxasTrucks

I dont think that looks to safe...... I wouldn't want to be in that situation as I am more of a on the ground guy. I did enjoy that though![8D]

drivedog

I had many steel Hybrids fail, Because the bulkheads are crimped into the steel tube they pop out when if there is failure.
And as for the cost of the Big Hybrid Rocket:
Cost to build Rocket $10,000.00
Fuel and Oxidizer for 1 flight $1,500.00
Fuel to get rocket to Nevada $900.00
Mis, supplys, food and other things $500.00 to $2,000.00
Grand Total CRAZY !!!
Yes the Rocket is reusable, I have two that can fly again sometime.

MJD

My Feedback: (1)

Absolutely right. People think that making a few kludgy homebrew motors "proves" that commercial manufacturers are gouging. That, however, is a pantload. Try doing it safely, legally, repeatably, in a facility that meets code - which is what you need to be a viable entity in the marketplace. Then there's that little part about making enough money to survive and pay the bills - oh yeah, labor really isn't free, is it? Then figure out what it really costs to be in business and get back to everybody with the good news..

The history of HPR and MR is full of people who suddenly "realized" that rocket motors really should be 1/10th the cost of what they are because they add up the price of a few raw materials - then a few of these brave souls attempt to start a manufacturing company and realize they don't have a clue. That's about the time the eager customers start suspecting the same thing.

With respect to mass-produced pressed black powder motors however - yeah, you're paying too much. Not three times too much, but too much. Wealth-crazed privately owned monopolies can be like that.

astroboycp

Looks dangerous.

astroboycp

Don't think can get potassium that easily?

balsaeater

Try mail order to USA for tree stump remover .

lots of vidios on you tube put the tree stump remover in frying pan and heat up and this boils away the other stuff that isnt potasium.Then add sugar and if you want a color trail add some suitable dyes and then mold to shape.
Biggest risk looks to be to burn yourself if you handle the molten mix without suitable tools and looks good to wear glasses to protect eyes from molten material spalshed out ftrom the frying pan.

Suitable lauch location with suitable safety issues and ordances sorted out cant see any major issues for small rockets A,B,C,D, or maybe even E.

I dont know the local story for Singaphore but last I recall long hair spitting on the side walk and chewing gum was illegal and carried a prison sentence .
So to do the flying the rocket you might have to run into nearby other countries to fly if the rules and politicsal issues are to big in your part of ASIA.

You cant assume that using USA or eurpean rules will be allowed in your part of the planet .

Also saw on one you tube vidio that saltpeter KNO3 pottasioum was easy to buy in China and chinese shops as food preservitive


I will try to find those links

Chow for now

Balsaeater

ChopperMike

Oh yeah, that sounds real safe![X(]

In the US, if you're launching an experimental motor it had better be at an experimental launch or it's illegal.


We just won a victory in court over the ATF and if people keep doing this kind of crap it won't stay that way! In any case the ATF will probably re-word the regs and try again. They most definitely will if people keep doing this kind of reckless home brew stuff.





Mike

50+AirYears

I was just browsing my on-line subscription to Electronic Component News, clicked on a link about the first flight of a new flying car, and saw a sidebar link stating that the District of Columbia Federal court ruled in favor of the combo of Tripoli and NAR in a case against the BATF. Apparently, the judge ruled that BATF violated their own rules and procedures in declaring Ammonium Perchlorate an explosive compound. The link is: http://www.ecnmag.com/article-Model-...TF-031709.aspx. It also has another link inside it that carries the actual court ruling.

drivedog

The ATF guys are retarded !!! Shortly after 911 they bought a bunch of Aerotech motors and a van. The ATF built a bunch of rockets and tried to launch them from the van at a remote controlled airplane in hopes to prove it could be done by terrorists. The final result was the ATF had an accident and burned down there own van.
You can make some really kick ass rocket motors that are 100% inert !!! There called Hybrids
http://www.rockethigh.com