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Anyone here building a UAVP?

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Old 09-23-2007, 09:49 PM
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13BRV3
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Default Anyone here building a UAVP?

Greetings,

The subject pretty much says it all. I'm thinking hard about ordering a couple UAVP boards to play with, and wondered if anyone else has one. My biggest question is about the ESC. I'm trying to figure out if the standard ESC will work OK for stable video, or if I absolutely have to go with the I2C bus versions.

Cheers,
Rusty
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Old 09-24-2007, 12:50 AM
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Default RE: Anyone here building a UAVP?

Say it isn't so, Rusty. While I like some of the frames and especially those metal spring type legs, it doesn't look like they can do anything better than the BL DF.

I think you should forget that German stuff and work on a better frame design for the outrunner BL DF.

Also, there may be something new coming from Dammar before long. (just a heads up)

Mike
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Old 09-24-2007, 10:15 AM
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Default RE: Anyone here building a UAVP?


ORIGINAL: Old Man Mike

Also, there may be something new coming from Dammar before long. (just a heads up)

Mike
Mike,

You can not get by this easy without giving us a little hint of what might be coming from Dammar??????

Thanks,

John
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Old 09-24-2007, 10:28 AM
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Default RE: Anyone here building a UAVP?

Hi Mike,

I really like the open design of the UAVP, because it's much easier to tinker with. At this point in time, the software doesn't support the pressure sensor, or GPS, but the hardware does, and the software is coming. It's tough to say which flies better at the moment. I've seen amazing videos from both, but I certainly can't duplicate any of the hands off hovering that DFI shows. Maybe I can't duplicate the UAVP performance either, but there's only one way to find out.

I've been hearing that Spectrolutions is working on something new for at least a year now. It might be worth waiting for if I knew more about it, but I haven't seen any details. I'm trying to talk myself into waiting until the UAVP implements the GPS, but I'm not good at waiting

Rusty
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Old 09-24-2007, 03:11 PM
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Default RE: Anyone here building a UAVP?

Hi Rusty, Regarding the German MK, yes the performance can be duplicated and yes it flies way better even that a brushless converted DF. I can tell because I own one regular DF, one MK and soon one UAVP. Also I've flown one brushless converted DF and although it flies way better than any regular DF, there is no comparison between the converted DF and at least my MK.

So is it worth getting one on these German machines? I would say BIG YES. However you may have to fly one to know what I’m talking about.

Regarding ESCs, if you go the MK way (now that you can buy both the populated escs and the populated main board) you will definitively need I2C compatible escs. Holger’s ESCs are very good I have 8 of the and haven’t had any problem flying my 1100 grams MK with 20-22L hacker motors and a payload of 500 grams for a total of 1600 grams of flying weight. If you go the UAVP way, you can use any PPM controller. There are other controllers like the YGE30i or something like that. I’ve never tried those so I’m not sure how good they are.

Regards
Nick
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Old 09-24-2007, 08:48 PM
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Default RE: Anyone here building a UAVP?

Hi Nick,

Thanks for the comments. I think I might just try the UAVP with standard ESCs for now. Best I can tell, I can change to the I2C version later if I need to. There are some extra mods needed to use the Holger ESCs, but that's doable as well. It's all one big experiment for me, and it wouldn't be fun if there weren't improvements to be made along the way

Cheers,
Rusty
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Old 09-25-2007, 12:58 AM
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Default RE: Anyone here building a UAVP?


ORIGINAL: Nicoleto

Hi Rusty, Regarding the German MK, yes the performance can be duplicated and yes it flies way better even that a brushless converted DF. I can tell because I own one regular DF, one MK and soon one UAVP. Also I've flown one brushless converted DF and although it flies way better than any regular DF, there is no comparison between the converted DF and at least my MK.

So is it worth getting one on these German machines? I would say BIG YES. However you may have to fly one to know what I’m talking about.

Regarding ESCs, if you go the MK way (now that you can buy both the populated escs and the populated main board) you will definitively need I2C compatible escs. Holger’s ESCs are very good I have 8 of the and haven’t had any problem flying my 1100 grams MK with 20-22L hacker motors and a payload of 500 grams for a total of 1600 grams of flying weight. If you go the UAVP way, you can use any PPM controller. There are other controllers like the YGE30i or something like that. I’ve never tried those so I’m not sure how good they are.

Regards
Nick
Nick,

It is very good to have feedback from someone that has flown the converted and original DF as well as the german units. Can you be a bit more specific on the differences you notice with the flying. Also, I only knew of four people that have completed the DF brushless conversion so I'm surprised to hear that you have flown one. Guess there are more out there that have not commented about their successful conversions.

I admit that if the MK was English language based development project, I would be right in the middle of it. It just seems so difficult to deal with a project which requires language translation.



BlackDragan: It should not be long. I'll spill it when I am allowed.

Mike

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Old 09-25-2007, 03:25 AM
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Default RE: Anyone here building a UAVP?

I do have the original DF V ti ,replaced it's board by the new x-ufo board (and flies way better) and also have an uavp.
The uavp does fly very stable ,better than the df and x-ufo mod,even with normal (yge30) ppm esc's.Mine is quite large which does help stability a lot..but there is still a need to steer the machine.
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Old 09-25-2007, 07:26 AM
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ORIGINAL: flyingdutchie

I do have the original DF V ti ,replaced it's board by the new x-ufo board (and flies way better) and also have an uavp.
The uavp does fly very stable ,better than the df and x-ufo mod,even with normal (yge30) ppm esc's.Mine is quite large which does help stability a lot..but there is still a need to steer the machine.
Thanks Dutchie. I just ordered two pre-populated UAVP boards and PICs last night, so I guess I'll give them a try. The sensors come from a place in the US, and are much cheaper to buy here than to order from LiPoly, so that's what I'll do. It should be a really fun project, and maybe they'll have the GPS working by the time I get it finished.

Rusty
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Old 10-26-2007, 02:32 PM
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Default RE: Anyone here building a UAVP?

Greetings,

Since this was my thread originally, I guess I'll use it for UAVP updates.

I decided to go with standard PPM ESCs, and built my first UAVP with 3- ADXRS300 gyros, an LIS3LV02DQ acceleration sensor, and HMC6352 compass module. For motors, I'm using TowerPro 2410-09 (less than $6.50 at UnitedHobbies). The ESCs are H-Wing Pentium 10A also from UnitedHobbies. Props currently EPP1045. The first frame was all aluminum, using 1" diameter .032" thick round tubing. It flew fine, but was REALLY heavy, 38.4 oz without the battery [:@] I named it the "aluminum pig"

Next, I made another Supersized Draganflyer frame, using solid CF rods instead of tubing. The main arms are 333 mm long, and the total weight was a MUCH improved 22.8 oz without battery. This flies even better, but the frame has too much flex. Hopefully, I'll be testing the Rev-3 frame this weekend.

So far, I really like the UAVP, though I may never get finished fiddling with flight parameters. The ability to customize all the parameters is simultaneously good and bad news. With power, comes responsibility

Cheers,
Rusty

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Old 10-27-2007, 08:20 PM
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Default RE: Anyone here building a UAVP?

Here's the rev-3 frame that I'm currently testing. It's smaller, at only 18.5" from rotor to rotor, but the flying weight is only 25.8 oz with a 2000 mah 3S lipo battery [8D]

Cheers,
Rusty
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Old 11-01-2007, 06:20 PM
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Default RE: Anyone here building a UAVP?

Rusty how many grams do you think you can lift?
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Old 11-02-2007, 07:22 AM
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ORIGINAL: Onelegna

Rusty how many grams do you think you can lift?
Me or the UAVP

I've done the semi-official max lift test, where I put the model on a scale, weigh it down so it can't fly, then read the scale with zero and 100% throttle. I measured 81 oz (2296 grams) of lift, but of course this is more than you could really fly with. Even at a conservative flying weight, there should be plenty of payload capacity.

BTW, the rev-3 frame isn't working out so well. There are just too many problems with the tubing splitting at the bolt holes, and anywhere it's clamped. Rev-4 design is underway, and should have much improved clamping of the tubing. It will certainly weigh more though, probably 3-4 oz more.

Rusty
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Old 11-11-2007, 08:12 PM
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Default RE: Anyone here building a UAVP?

Rev-4 has flown, along with rev-4a The new frame is about 6 oz heavier, but it's so much superior to the rev-3 construction that it's well worth the weight. I think I can take some weight off rev-5, without losing any of the good features of the new clamps, but I'm not sure when I'll get around to it.

Some of the pictures show the rev-4 frame when I had the motors almost at the ends of the 1m arms (500 mm on each side). Flight testing showed that there was almost no yaw authority due to the fact that the motors were too far from the center of the craft to effectively translate torque into yaw. I ended up moving the motors into about 625mm span, and it flies absolutely GREAT!

At one point, I was able to hover in a corner of my back yard for over one minute without touching anything but the throttle

Cheers,
Rusty

PS- The last picture is obviously the two on top of each other. However, I could certainly do this... Rev-5 anyone
PPS- I few frame ideas were clearly, well... "borrowed" from Mike's 1000mm DF




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Old 11-16-2007, 11:08 AM
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Default RE: Anyone here building a UAVP?


Nice work here!

I'm working on a UAVP as well. Got a board and most of the parts. Will be trying PPM ESC's.

EEK
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Old 11-16-2007, 12:00 PM
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ORIGINAL: eekflyer


Nice work here!

I'm working on a UAVP as well. Got a board and most of the parts. Will be trying PPM ESC's.

EEK
Thanks. I saw your new "discrete" board on the UAVP forum, and can't wait to hear how it works out. If you are so inclined, I'd bet you can sell a number of these to folks who don't want to mess with SMD components. If the Wolferl board didn't already come pre-populated, I'm not sure if I would have attempted it.

Good luck,
Rusty
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Old 11-17-2007, 02:06 AM
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Default RE: Anyone here building a UAVP?

Hi Rusty, here are some frame ideas. This is the frame I've used to shot the video posted over the UAVP forum (icecube nick):

http://www.rcmovie.net/view_video.ph...838863fb1a260b
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Old 11-17-2007, 10:00 AM
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Hi Nick,

It's alway interesting to see how other people assemble frames. It just seems like there's an unlimited way to do it, and they all seem to work just fine. What are those rods made out of? Do you have any weight measurements for this frame?

Cheers,
Rusty
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Old 11-17-2007, 01:11 PM
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ORIGINAL: 13BRV3

Hi Nick,

It's alway interesting to see how other people assemble frames. It just seems like there's an unlimited way to do it, and they all seem to work just fine. What are those rods made out of? Do you have any weight measurements for this frame?

Cheers,
Rusty
That is true. The arms are tail booms from T-Rex helicopter, they each weight 17 grams. The center plate is 120 grams, very strong, all together it is 188 grams. The UAVP takeoff weight is 1.3 kg including two FlightPower 2170 mAh batteries (flight time 17 min). When camera is added, it goes to 1.7 kg (flight time 10 min).
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Old 11-17-2007, 10:29 PM
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Hi Nick,

What threw me off on the arms was the color. Are they carbon fiber or aluminum?

Rusty
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Old 11-17-2007, 11:09 PM
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ORIGINAL: 13BRV3

Hi Nick,

What threw me off on the arms was the color. Are they carbon fiber or aluminum?

Rusty
They are aluminum I should have been more specific. If you like the 'golden' finish, then search for X-400 or MX400 tail booms, they are the same diameter as T-Rex - 12 mm. My goal when designing this frame was to use materials that are strong, cheap and easy to find. Replacing a tail boom from T-Rex will cost you 5 bucks. It is very lightweight and it does not flex, a perfect choice for this application. If you want to save even more weight you can use CF booms.
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Old 12-03-2007, 04:04 PM
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ORIGINAL: nikivan

They are aluminum I should have been more specific. If you like the 'golden' finish, then search for X-400 or MX400 tail booms, they are the same diameter as T-Rex - 12 mm. My goal when designing this frame was to use materials that are strong, cheap and easy to find. Replacing a tail boom from T-Rex will cost you 5 bucks. It is very lightweight and it does not flex, a perfect choice for this application. If you want to save even more weight you can use CF booms.
I ordered some of these tail booms, and they're great. Thanks for all the info. The UAVP3 frame (sq CF tubing with holes drilled in it) is starting to split and have problems, so I'll be building a UAVP5 frame using the aluminum tubing. UAVP4's frame (same sq CF tubing) is holding up very well, but it's clamped rather than drilled and bolted. Just for fun, I put the Eagle Tree FDR on UAVP4 Saturday, and took it up as high as my courage would allow. I was actually surprised when I saw the data [X(]

I was in the middle of a big Navy airport that we use for R/C on the weekends, but I could have done this just as easily in my back yard. The open space did give me the ability to actually fly around some, and do some orientation practice. If it weren't for the 10 kt wind, it would have been soooo easy

Cheers,
Rusty



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Old 12-05-2007, 02:47 PM
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ORIGINAL: 13BRV3

I ordered some of these tail booms, and they're great. Thanks for all the info. The UAVP3 frame (sq CF tubing with holes drilled in it) is starting to split and have problems, so I'll be building a UAVP5 frame using the aluminum tubing. UAVP4's frame (same sq CF tubing) is holding up very well, but it's clamped rather than drilled and bolted. Just for fun, I put the Eagle Tree FDR on UAVP4 Saturday, and took it up as high as my courage would allow. I was actually surprised when I saw the data [X(]

I was in the middle of a big Navy airport that we use for R/C on the weekends, but I could have done this just as easily in my back yard. The open space did give me the ability to actually fly around some, and do some orientation practice. If it weren't for the 10 kt wind, it would have been soooo easy

Cheers,
Rusty
You are welcome. Interesting data, what is the altitude measured in (m or ft)?
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Old 12-06-2007, 11:30 PM
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ORIGINAL: nikivan

You are welcome. Interesting data, what is the altitude measured in (m or ft)?
Meters would be more impressive, but it was feet, and that was about as high as I'd want to fly one of these.

Rusty (trying to get around to building a frame with the tail booms)
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Old 12-10-2007, 09:52 PM
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Here's what I did with your tail booms Nick [8D]

I finished the rev-5 frame today, and am pretty darn pleased with it.

Anyway, as you can see from the pics, the total weight is 8.6 oz, which is better than I feared. This one is actually much stiffer than anything I've built to date, and probably more durable too. If not, the clamps work great, and it only takes loosening two screws to replace an arm. Gotta like that :-)

As you can see, I eliminated the landing gear, just like I had in the aluminum pig. I went back to my old friend the welding rod roll cage, and used wheel collars to hold it place. I don't like putting ferrous material near the compass, but it didn't seem to bother it when I had the UAVP mounted on a large DF frame. I bet the current flowing around the board on the power traces does more harm.

I cut about 3.5 inches off the arms, so the max span is 600mm. I think that's as large as I care to go for the motors, and initially, this one may be limited to how much wire I have on my ESC power leads, probably about 525 mm or so.

Cheers,
Rusty

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