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  1. #1

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    Low wiing trianer

    Well I have finished my conversion of the Super Low Wing Trainer from Nitro Planes. It is a 60 sized low wing plane that looks an awful lot like a Sky Tiger.

    The reason I compare it to the old Goldberg Tigers, is I had a Jr Tiger I flew for many years and this one looks like a larger version of it.

    http://www.nitroplanes.com/nilosuaetr60.html

    This is by far the largest "E" powered plane I have. It is the second glow to electric I have done. This one made it past the first flight The other one died on a failed landing.

    I did make a lot of changes to this plane. This is the second one I have built. So I all ready knew what I wanted to change. The first one died when the on board battery died. Flew 2 and a half laps around the field before it hit the bushes.

    I started off by figuring out what motor and ESC I wanted to use. After reading what I could find, I went with a Monster 60 and a Valcano 60 amp ESC with BEC. I was leaning towards a separate BEC but after flying I think the built in is good enough for the (4) standard servos.

    http://www.hobbypartz.com/volcano-se...hless-esc.html

    http://www.hobbypartz.com/mo604brmo.html

    I mounted it with stuff I bought from Lowes.

    10-24 X 12" threaded rod (2)
    10-24 blind nuts (8) one for the motor side and one tightened up against the blind nut
    10-24 nylon lock nuts
    5/16 fender washers
    1/4 inch PLEX tubing SKU# 91514 68512

    I have (4) 3s 2650 lipos I have paired up in series and parallel for a total of 6s 5300 mah. I had them on hand and did not want to get a 6s battery just yet. I will be buying a couple of the 6s later, but for now, these work very well.

    I knew from the past one the stock gear was made out of some metal that was lead infused. That is the only way I can come up with it being so soft. It was hard to get it to bounce on landing, the metal wire just bent. I made up new, longer and bent backwards main gear out of 5/32 music wire. I made the gear almost 2 inches taller to give prop clearance.

    To fix the nose wheel problem, it was short and would bend just as easily as the stock main gear I ordered a Dubro complete nose wheel assembly

    http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?&I=LXD843&P=0

    And the adjustable axles

    http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?&I=LXD843&P=0

    This setup works very well. I have no problems. It works so much better then the soft metal of the stock gear.

    I have also installed (2) aileron servos. The stock torque rod setup flopped around like a fish out of water. It was not easy to get the pieces installed for the aileron servos with out cutting out a bunch of covering. I was able to get it all install by going through the hole I cut for the servo and by sliding the parts in from the center section of the wing.

    I used 1/4 inch thick balsa by 1/2 inch wide to go from rib to rib. This is not a super fast or heavy duty 3D machine so that is plenty of strength. After the cross pieces were glued in I cut a piece of lite play for the servo mount. I glued this to the cross pieces and it came out real close to the level of the covering.

    I made up some short push rods out of 2-56 threaded rod and the EZ links.

    http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?&I=LXAZC3&P=0

    http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?&I=LXK080&P=0


    I used the stock push rods for the elevator and rudder. They work well. I did not use the EZ type connectors that came with this plane. I did use a Dubro EZ connector for the nose wheel push rod.

    I am using (4) of the 5010 BB standard servos from Hobbypartz.

    http://www.hobbypartz.com/kahaoubrmo14.html

    These have been working in several planes for a couple of years now. They are the same ones Hobby People sell under the Cirrus label. They call them CS-60.

    http://www.hobbypeople.net/index.php...ard-servo.html


    This plane took me 2 evening to get together. It goes together pretty quick. Not really a lot to do. It took longer because of all the changes I have done. I guess it took me about 1 1/2 hour to get the motor and nose wheel all mounted up. It took longer to install the aileron servo mountings then it did anything else.

    I have also started on the glider carriage for this plane. I want to use it as a glider tug. I have the carriage made up and attached. I am working on the release mechanism right now. I have a few ideas but I need to test them to see if I like them or if they will even work under load.

    I should be able to get some video of it this weekend. She does fly very well.

    Hope this is of interest to some one out there.

    Buzz.












    ETA spelling and links
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  2. #2
    opjose's Avatar
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    RE: Low wiing trianer

    Very nice!

    I just ordered two of these planes after seeing what you did!

    What did the AUW come out to be without the glider cart.

    Did you get the glider release mechanism worked out?

    Did you change the incidence of the main wings at all?

    Good info on the nose gear. I had planned on using Fults gear.

    Thanks.

    There is an art . . . to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.

  3. #3

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    RE: Low wiing trianer

    Well this is the first post in any of the (3) sites.

    I did not change anything on the wing. I used as it came stock.

    The all up weight, no idea. I have not weighed it. With the Monster Power 60, Exceed 60 amp ESC with BEC, 6s 5300 lipo pack, APC "E" prop 16X8, it takes off in about 10 feet, climbs out at 80 degrees until you cut power, slows to a crawl for landings.

    I did the the release all setup and tested. It works great. We launched the glider 5 times without any problems with the tow plane or the release. We did have a problem with the glider. My brother in law opened up the hot glue I used to seal the BB's in the nose to balance it. He took some out and used pennies to add more weight. Well, you know how it goes. If something can find its way to a bad place and cause trouble, it will. Well one BB found its way to a servo slot on the Rx and shorted out the battery. The glider went into a spin and stayed there. It is the first time I watched a glider crash leaving a smoke trail. When the BB shorted out the power, the switch harness melted, the battery leads melted, and smoke came pouring out of the nose of the glider. So, my brother in law is ordering a new battery, switch, and he is going to see if the Rx is still good. Oh, the glider is fine. Nose stuck int the mud about 6 inches and that was it. Not a scratch .

    I am waiting for the video of the plane with the glider on it to be uploaded to youtube. The glider I built this to lift up is the Ventus. It is a 2.6 meter sail plane. Mine weighs in at just about 3.5 pounds. The low wing trainer has "ZERO"!!!!!!! NO, NOTHING, NADA!!!! problem lifting the big glider up. It lifts off the ground in 20 feet or so and climbs out as if there was no plane on top.

    We started off by using (2) rubber bands per side. We found this was not enough. The wing on the glider would lift up and cause the tow plane to make a HARD turn to the low wing of the glider. It needed 80% aileron and 75% rudder to get it back on track. The second flight we used (3) rubber bands per side and it was fine. There was no lifting of the glider wings to the gross wind. There was a couple of times we had a large pucker factor. We ended up doing an inverted launch. Bad gust at the wrong time, a stall of both planes, a few "I DON"T HAVE IT" @#%@^#&#%@$@#%^#^ I LOST IT!!!!! then hit the switch and release. All is good after the launch. Tow plane powered up and was fine, glider did 1/2 roll and flew on.

    I used the Dubro nose gear because I had it and it costs less then the Fults gear. It has a dozen landings and one bad, real hard landing and it is still as straight as the day I put it on. The last landing of the day I had a gust that lifted the plane up about 5 feet then went to a tail wind. I went full power but not fast enough. I broke one of the landing gear blocks loose. I have all ready cut the covering back, epoxied it back in place and use a few small pieces of ply to increase the strength. I did this to both sides.

    I have the top rail of the carriage set at 0-0. Meaning I have it at the same incidence as the wing on the tow plane. It seems to work well setup like that. There is a layer of foam weather stripping on top of the carriage to protect the wings of the glider. The rubber bands go over the glider wings from the back to the front. The front has a hook on each side that is held in place by a wire. The wire is pulled by the servo to release the hooks, and that releases the rubber bands. The bands are tied to a rod sticking out the side of the rear of the carriage. I can take a few more shots of the completed rig if you want.

    I am worried every time I get near that APC 16X8 prop. It is like some Ninja sword just waiting for some sucker to get to close. The power the motor has is unreal. It goes from a dead stop to 50 feet up in about .00000000000001 heart beat. I do need to start using a few mixes with my radio. I need to setup a throttle/rudder mix to help the torque of the motor and I need to setup a aileron rudder mix when I am flying the gliders up. It is hard enough to keep track of the plane let alone fly both sticks. I know making a nice turn we should use both aileron and rudder, but a mix would make it so much easier.

    I can put this on a scale if you want to know the all up weight with and with out the batteries and with or without the carriage and I can add the glider weight too.

    I see Nitro is out of stock on them right now.


    Buzz.

  4. #4
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    RE: Low wiing trianer

    Very nice! I'd love to see the videos of the glider launch.



    If you get a chance could you post the weight?

    I'm trying to see what to do with mine and your AUW will help me decide.

    I must have purchased the last red one, but I see the blue ones are still in stock.

    The blue will not be difficult to see due to the color trim....

    BTW: I have a Parkzone Hellcat which is the same color of the sky on a clear day... needless to say I have to keep the plane in close!
    There is an art . . . to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.

  5. #5

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    RE: Low wiing trianer

    I just weighed the plane parts. Wing weighs 3 pounds, fuse weighs in at 4 pounds and the batteries weigh 2 pounds so 9 pounds all up ready to fly. That is give or take a couple of ounces for rounding up. The fuse was 4 pound 1/8th ounce and the wing was 2 pounds 15 7/8 ounces. Batteries were 1 pound 15 ounces, so I just rounded the numbers.

    So, with this all ready to fly, 9 pounds, carriage, say 1 pound, 2.6 meter glider, 3.5 pounds, that is almost 14 pounds ready to fly with payload. Not bad for an "E" powered launch vehicle.

    The carriage weighs in at 13.5 ounces with servo and rubber bands.

    I will ask my brother to upload the video to youtube so I can post the link.

    This is the one I have. It has a 71 inch span. I looked at the red and blue ones but they do not list the wing span.

    http://www.nitroplanes.com/nilosuaetr60.html


    Buzz.

  6. #6
    opjose's Avatar
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    RE: Low wiing trianer

    I have the 80" versions which is not quite the same but fairly close.

    I want to put one together for a friend and I'm wondering if an old O.S. FX .50 and an OS FP .60 will be more than enough for this plane.

    Your electrification report gives me a good idea of what to expect.

    There is an art . . . to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.

  7. #7

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    RE: Low wiing trianer

    I had an "OLD" worn out ASp .61 2s in the nose of my first one. It had ZERO compression when cold. When you went to start it, you could hear it sort of ramp up like a turbine engine as it heated up. It ran very well, idled all day long, never missed a beat. It yanked the plane around the sky like it was on fire.

    Right now my brother in law has a Magnum 61 in his, brother has a Magnum 90 in his, my other brother in law was going to use a Tower Hobbies 61. He is going "E" power now.


    Of course the magnum 91 goes straight up for ever, the Magnum 61 has a 80 degree climb out for a long time. My "E" power version, I would say is between the 61 and 90. Not as much as the 90 but a tad more then the 61. I think it is the extra torque and the larger prop that helps the "E" power version.

    I have found the landing gear blocks are not glued in that well and the landing gear wire is pretty soft. So you may need to change those.

    Buzz.

  8. #8
    opjose's Avatar
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    RE: Low wiing trianer

    Ok great.

    It sounds like either engine I mentioned will do then.

    Both are a bit less powerful than what you've listed, but given your description will probably do just fine for a novice.

    I appreciate it.

    There is an art . . . to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.

  9. #9

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    RE: Low wiing trianer

    I would say the FP 60 would have a tad bit more power then my worn out ASP 61. It will have plenty of power to fly this plane. I would say the O.S. FP 60 with a 12X6 prop or even a 13X4 would do it. You are not really looking for speed, but an easy cruiser setup. My brother started flying it with a worn out K&B .65 Super Sportster, so the FP will do a fine job.

    To be honest, this plane would fly on a Magnum, O.S., Enya, Fox, or any other .46. It has to be one of the planes with the slowest landing speed I have EVER had. I used to fly a Tower Trainer 60 with an O.S. 70 SurpassII. I really enjoyed doing slow fly bye's. As slow as I could get it to go. I was doing this with the Low Wing Trainer. It was close to hovering in 10 mph winds. One of the guys at the field said it looked like a balloon. It fly's so slow it is scary. It took a good 5 minutes to fly the length of the runway.

    I was able to get a landing roll out of about 12 inches. I have landed with the tail touching down first, followed by the main gear, then the nose wheel. It will fly that slowly.


    Buzz.

    P.S. I think you are the one who said to spray the whole plane before assembly with a Luster coat clear, it was a longtime ago, I may be wrong, but it is a good idea and works well.

  10. #10
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    RE: Low wiing trianer



    Re: Engines

    Great that's what I wanted to hear. The 80' version should float even more giving the slight additional lift of the longer wings.

    So either engine should be fine.

    Re: Clear Coat.

    Yeah it works pretty well.

    The only downside is that fuel can eat away at the clear coat over time if fuel is sprayed directly onto the covering... however if that happens, a good cleaning and another coating restores the uncovered areas to their prior states.

    Re: Glider

    I'm intrigued by your glider launcher. That will be interesting to see.



    There is an art . . . to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.

  11. #11

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    RE: Low wiing trianer

    Here is a pretty bad video of the glider launch. The take of is pretty good though.


    Buzz.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V5k-h-n5IVA

  12. #12
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    RE: Low wiing trianer

    Cool launcher. I think your cameraman needs to zoom out more
    Video recording RC planes is a skill that does not come easy.

  13. #13

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    RE: Low wiing trianer

    dditch, this was the second video he has shot with a camera that belongs to some one else. I was messing with it and looking at the display, then trying to keep up with a moving object was tough. I gave up after about 5 minutes of getting everything but the plane. I would need to do some serious practice.


    Buzz.


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