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Long-EZ 46 Conversion to Electric

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Old 10-21-2006, 12:19 PM
  #1
re2smpc
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Default Long-EZ 46 Conversion to Electric

I am currently building a Long-EZ 46 and converting it to electric power with an AXI 2826/10 outrunner motor. It is the RichModel version that is white with the red, blue and yellow trim. I have 2 questions:

1. Please tell me how many degrees of side thrust are designed into the firewall of this plane. I will be using a thin electric motor prop (not a pusher). The prop must be mounted in the reverse orientation on the motor shaft. The motor must also be connected in the reverse rotation. To do this I will need to counteract any thrust angle already in the model and change it to the other side.

2. Also, I have reand many posts on this site regarding the CG point for these planes. Does anyone know exactly where it should be located on this model? Any information or suggestions on how best to mount the electric motor will be appreciated.
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Old 10-21-2006, 12:26 PM
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Default RE: Long-EZ 46 Conversion to Electric

Here is my conversion
E-flite 46bl, 4400 lipo, 60amp esc, 12x8e prop
this will be one squirrley plane!

make sure you get airmovement over esc...or get way hot.
dont forget...elevator up is down...down is up.
I did not put in any thrust..I will see how bad it is needed after 1st flights. Easy to do, I can just shim the standoffs.
Vertical uprights are weak..Reinforce with some angle stock or carbon.


bobz
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Old 10-21-2006, 12:53 PM
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Default RE: Long-EZ 46 Conversion to Electric

bobz,
Thanks for your quick reply. Please explain what you mean by the "vertical uprights". Also, I am interested to see how you attched the canopy and how you will have access to the battery. I am still trying to figure out how I will mount the canopy so it is easy to remove. Here is the equipment setup I plan to use:

Brushless Motor: PM282610 AXI 2826/10 OUTRUNNER Brushless Motor

Motor Mount: PM282002 Radial Mount for 2820/2826 Motors

Brushless Controller: JESAP70PW Jeti Advance PLUS 70 Amp Opto Brushless Controller

PE11085E 11x8.5 APC Electric Prop

PQ37004 "Twenty" 4 Cell 14.8V 3700 mAh LiPo Pack
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Old 10-21-2006, 01:28 PM
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Default RE: Long-EZ 46 Conversion to Electric

the vertical uprights are on the wing tips..(i don't call rudders..as they don't actually have a moveable rudder.

I was gonna try either earth magnets..or velcro..neither would probalbly be sufficient at hight speeds to keep canopy on. if you come up with better idea..I'm open for suggestions.

I have to make a mount for the battery way up front..I made a try and then just velcro strap in the battery.
I have not figured out a way to cool the esc yet. but I do know it is a must..to get some air flow over..
I also am considering putting the receiver/servos on its own battery (2-cell lipo with regulator).
I am not happy with the mounting of the front canard..and may make changes to it..I cannot get to the clevis well that is
runniing the elevator....and would like to fix to take out the slop in that connection. (I'm considering cutting the bottom out under
canard..
I was gonna run a 4400mah lipo 11v..but I like your idea better 14.8v..I may switch to that.

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Old 10-21-2006, 01:47 PM
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Default RE: Long-EZ 46 Conversion to Electric

OK got it now on the "uprights". The kit I have is designed for the urights to be glued on to the wings. I plan to add the screws for reinforcement. I was also trying to think of a way to add rudder controls to the uprights. I had an idea to add a micro servo in the wing at each tip. I would then use 2 "Y" connectors to link the 3 servos (2 at each rudder and the one for the steering) together into the receiver. I don't think it would be too difficult to do (might be fun to try). I'll let you know what I come up with for attaching the canopy. I thought about velcro, rare earth magnets but have been told these don't work well.
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Old 10-21-2006, 02:02 PM
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Default RE: Long-EZ 46 Conversion to Electric

yes, I too thinking same thing with small servos for rudder..but they would have to be able to put out some nice holding torque..
those little hs-55 are way too weak..what about a pair of servo's inside the wing..and then a flexable cable system (like you see on the pontoons on water planes for the rudder in rear). You could also mount one servo in fuselage and put the to cable systems leading
to a servo arm..one connection to opposite sides of the servo dual arm..then the rudders would work together..and only one servo would be needed.
The plane is an engineers challenge to make better..and it have been shelved while I finish building my 43% giles, 33% yak and 30% yak.


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Old 10-21-2006, 02:11 PM
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Default RE: Long-EZ 46 Conversion to Electric

Maybe we dont want rudders..

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/m...13/ai_53900449



poor john, lost a great one here

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Old 10-21-2006, 02:12 PM
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Default RE: Long-EZ 46 Conversion to Electric

WOW Beautiful looking plane. Nice job! Yes, I know what you mean about an engineer's challange (I'm an product development engineer in the medical industry - plates/screws for bone trauma.) My kit has been sitting the box for about a year now as I think of the best ways to complete the build. I like your idea about the flex cable for rudder control. I'll look into that. I'll post some pictures when I get started on mine.
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Old 10-21-2006, 02:19 PM
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Default RE: Long-EZ 46 Conversion to Electric

I never knew that Denver went down in a Long-EZ. Scary! I am told the larger scale kits of this plane do come with rudder control (60 and 120 sizes). See here http://www.avia-richmodel.com/englis...iew.asp?ID=543
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Old 10-21-2006, 02:23 PM
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Default RE: Long-EZ 46 Conversion to Electric

great..i follow you lead..as I too have been thinking this over..and have been reading what I can about canard planes..
I had a link to another ARF that did have rudders..and I will continue looking..it may give insight for us..
as for esc cooling..im thinking about some loovers and openings with some deflectors to the esc.
I hear the plane is ultra fast and takes off and lands fast. A friend went to a club in Utah..and said they had one
clocked over 120mph. dang..I just GOTTA go that fast!

bobz

nice job you got there..lots of nice tools probably.

visit my latest creations.hehe

www.toc-xtreme.com

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Old 10-21-2006, 02:33 PM
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Default RE: Long-EZ 46 Conversion to Electric

looky what i found

http://adamone.rchomepage.com/cg_canard.htm

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Old 10-22-2006, 07:27 PM
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Default RE: Long-EZ 46 Conversion to Electric

What retractable landing gear equipment is recommended for the front wheel of this plane?
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Old 10-22-2006, 07:42 PM
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Default RE: Long-EZ 46 Conversion to Electric

hmmm...i never investigated that? I think I saw another thread here addressing that..

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Old 10-26-2006, 02:07 AM
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Default RE: Long-EZ 46 Conversion to Electric

I'm currently flying the yellow version of the Long-EZ 46 with a Super tigre G45 ABC engine with the stock "barrel shaped" muffler. It is PLENTY fast, slows down to a nice slow flight, landings are with long approaches but are not fast. Few tips---set the plane up so the front is a bit higher than the rear. This will give a bit of positive incidence in the canard and it will fly right off the deck once the speed is up, vs. having the plane sitting level or nose down where the canard is "plowing" on the take off roll, you give it up elevator and it is going to LEAP into the air--probably with a resulting stall to end your day. As soon as you touch down on the landing get OUT of the elevator, or else you'll probably be flying again! CG as spec'd seems to be fine balanced empty with NO fuel.

Ahh, but you guys were trying to figure out a way to mount the canopy for easy access. On the 46 size model I'm simply using 4~ 4-40 sheet metal screws at the corners of the canopy after I applied a piece of rubber "canopy trim" stuff that is like a weatherstrip around the trimmed canopy.
So here is the suggestion for easy access via the canopy. First, fit a piece of balsa inside near the front of the canopy that you can insert a couple of dowels. Fit a piece of balsa with holes to receive the dowels into the plane. At the rear of the canopy, fit a balsa "strut" across the canopy, CA a small piece of plywood on the top of the strut in the center, screw in a J hook to the bottom of the strut and up through the plywood, cut a #64 rubber band, loop it around the wing joiner tube, tie it in a knot and then fitting the front of the canopy into place on the plane then fit the rubber band through the J hook and "Voila"! there you have it!

Kind of like this one on the little electric Long-EZ that I also put together.....
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Old 10-26-2006, 02:41 AM
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Default RE: Long-EZ 46 Conversion to Electric

Thanks for the info on cg and incidence..as far as the canopy, this (nitroplanes) version does not that nice sub-frame you
have so unless we built one..its just a piece of flimsy plastic to try to attached. How did you make the front taller?? bigger wheel, change motor mount?


Here is photo of the canopy..any suggestions??

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Old 10-26-2006, 04:08 PM
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Default RE: Long-EZ 46 Conversion to Electric

bobz,

That's the same canopy I'm working with. It will take a lot of time and craftsmanship to create an entire frame for it. I was thinking of 2 ideas (or a combination of both). Either strategically placing heavy duty velcro strips or (better) I was thinking of attaching thin strips of wood or plastic on the inside of the canopy along both sides each with three 1/2" holes positioned front middle and back. I have on order thin 1/2" disc rare earth magnets that I would epoxy in the holes. I would also mount magnets on the fuselage in the same positions. Possibly add velcro at the middle front and back locations. All of this is still in my head at the present time. I haven't decided which path I will take. I know I don't want to use screws. I will need fast and easy access to the 14.8V 4000mAh Lipoly I will be using. Since the RichModel Long-EZ 46 is designed for glow power, converting it to electric takes some ingenuity and patience!
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Old 10-26-2006, 11:38 PM
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Default RE: Long-EZ 46 Conversion to Electric

..any suggestions??


Well, I thought that is what I did in my first post!

Magnets, velcro, tried both of those with the little electric Long EZ with the frame in the canopy. It was already doweled in the front, just a quick way of holding it down at the rear was the challenge. The rubber band around the wing joiner tube to the J hook, in my opinion, is the easiest, simplest and most elegant design (unlike the usual Rube Goldberg!).

I realize your canopy is just a floppy piece of clear plastic. I've got the exact same canopy on the yellow 46 size Long EZ I posted a picture of---for mine, with the nitro engine---it's simply held on by 4 screws at the corners. As for the plastic cover with the seats or instrument panels or whatever they are supposed to be.....it's still in the box.

So lets think along these lines.....say you take that floppy plastic canopy and with your reading glasses under a good light take a CLOSE look at that canopy. I bet you will find a very fine molding line that is curved around the front of the canopy, even and straight down the length of the canopy probably about 1/4" up from the edge of the canopy, a curved corner at the lower rear of the canopy, and finally the molding line goes up and around the rear of the canopy. Look close, you will see it.
You found the molding line. Now find some masking tape and tape along the bottom line on both sides of the canopy as a guide. Use a straight edge and an Xacto knife and cut along that line. Mask the curved portions and cut them with a pair of curved scissors. About $15 or so for those scissors if you don't already have a pair but worth every penny if you are going to stay in this hobby.
Using the silly plastic cover headrest/seats doo dad whatever it is as a template, cut a piece of say 1/8 light balsa the same size to use as your canopy frame. Make a pair of semi-circular pieces for the front--one for the plane and one to fit inside the front of the canopy atop the balsa sheet frame where you can dowel the both of them to secure the front. Put a piece of wax paper over the opening in the fuselage and down the sides a couple inches. Put the plywood and J hook into the balsa sheet frame at the rear and attach with rubber band to the wing tube.

Clean the canopy with alcohol and paper towels. Like REAL clean. Apply a bead of canopy glue to the balsa sheet frame and around the top of the semi circular front piece with the dowels, lay the canopy onto the plane and once it is fitted correctly tape it down good with the masking tape, and after 24 hours for the glue to cure you have it done.

Here is a couple pictures of mine that should give you an idea of where to look for the molding line as this one is trimmed along that line---with the exception of the lower rear corners where I left it with a 90 degree angle instead of the curved corner.
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Old 10-26-2006, 11:45 PM
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Default RE: Long-EZ 46 Conversion to Electric

you heard the man....let's get started!



you saw the movie "Dances with Wolves"...that room looks likes "Sleeps with Planes"


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Old 10-27-2006, 12:09 AM
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Default RE: Long-EZ 46 Conversion to Electric

One word of caution should you follow my suggestion above----test fit it all before you glue the canopy! Especially the fit of the canopy along the top of the wing---it is going to be very close here--note the photos. The black rubber weatherstrip/cockpit combing stuff I found at the local Hobbytown USA for about $4 or so. It has a small lip that fits onto the edge of the canopy---you fit the whole thing on by hand and then once you have it in place and the canopy is not warped, you put about 1 drop of thin CA glue to the joint and let it run around the bead. I used 1 piece that goes from the bottom rear of the canopy all the way to the front, around the front and back to the rear corner of the other side. Then I used a single piece to go up and over the rear of the canopy....kind of like replacing the rear weatherstripping and glass window in a Porsche 911 Targa---takes at least 5 people to do one of those!

Aaahhh nuts. I forgot about the nose gear question! Ok, for the nose gear and the mains I used the wheels supplied, you'll have to find a reamer to ream out the wheels to fit the axles and nose gear. Place the nose gear bearing block as low as you can on the front firewall. As the plastic nose fits below the bottom of the fuselage, I'd put the bottom of the bearing block flush with the bottom of the fuselage. Install the nose gear with the steering arm, turn the steering arm all the way to the right i.e. as far as it will go. Now put about 20 or 30 degrees of right turn in the nosegear itself and mark that spot if you are going to file a flat spot on the nose gear for the steering arm collar screw. Otherwise, if you just set it up with the nose gear straight ahead and the steering arm square to the fuselage, you won't have any ability to turn right before the arm hits the bearing block. Can you say "been there, done that"??

Set the nose of the plane higher than the rear by adjusting the height of the nose gear---thats why I suggest putting the bearing block as low as you can! I set mine up to where on a level surface the front of the canard was right at 15mm higher than the trailing edge of the wing at the fuselage.

Good Luck and hurry up and finish your planes!

Never enough space, never enough RC planes! That's only 3 or 4 of the 32 year "habit" that get stored elsewhere!
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Old 10-27-2006, 07:23 AM
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Default RE: Long-EZ 46 Conversion to Electric

Thanks for all that info...every little bit helps in settting up the plane and making for a sucessful maiden. I have a big problem, that may
require me to break the carnard out the the plane..the elevator has way too much slop and it is coming from the clevis/horn that they
have coming off the carnard. I have heard how sensitive these planes are and I'm sure this loosness (slightly over a 1/8 inch up and down at
the trailing edge of canard) is gonna make for one squirrly ride. If I really screw things up..then I think I may have to buy a another kit...I like the yellow ez you have and escpecially the canopy, who make that plane??? It it the larger size Nitro Plane?

Bobz

(you can NEVER have too many planes, I learned to fly in July 2004, now fly 5 - 1/4 scale planes, and total over 22 planes..I would guess
I could also be called "Dances with planes".

33%AM Yak, 30% AM Yak, 29% AW Katana-zdz50ng, 29% AW Katana-3w60, Patty 300 prototype 84", GP Patty-g62, Composite-Arf 2.3 prototype-3w85twin, GSP 43% Giles-3w150twin, 1/3scale Christian Eagle, CG Ultimate-108fsr, MW SuperStinker-27%, 80"Cub/floats,
HangerNine Futana46, GP U-Can-Do46, Lil'Banchee, AirFoil-Z Yak, CG WildStik-108fsr, Corsair 40 (scratch built), LongEZ (yet to finish),
MP Microjet, ChargerRC YAK, and lastly a 25year old ARIEL pattern plane restored....whew!

You DON'T want to see the list of crashed planes...hehehe


bobz
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Old 10-27-2006, 12:31 PM
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Default RE: Long-EZ 46 Conversion to Electric

The yellow Long EZ 46 I ordered through Nitro Models parent company Raidentech (Raidentech.com) and it is without a doubt made in China by fly-models.com

The little electric Long EZ 380 is a Richmodel plane. It's a fun little plane, but compared to the 46 size ones it has some nasty habits in the "stall department".......flying along at say 70% power or less if you make too tight of a turn---probably 30 degrees and higher---the little plane goes through an oscillation of intermittent stalls....in other words the front end starts bobbing up and down rapidly as the canard stalls and then once again starts flying. Not so much of a problem in normal flight, but landing that little dude is NOT easy when it starts the bobbing stuff near the ground! The yellow Long EZ 46 exhibits NONE of that nasty behavior.

As for the sloppy clevis/horn----I remember now that I drilled another hole in the metal horn and used a nylon clevis as mine also had too big of a hole in the horn. I also cut out a slot in the canard rearward of the clevis to give it more "motion" in that direction (although that is "down" elevator i.e. the elevator deflects upwards).
My maiden flight didn't go so swell as once I had ground speed up and rotated I was heading towards some BIG oak trees.....so I got out of the power and came down rather hard on the front right corner of the canard. The plane did a spin on the ground, bent the main landing gear up under the plane (the aluminum landing gear is very very easy to rebend in a vise and/or hammer out straight!) and broke the canard right at the point where it meets the right side of the fuselage. I can tell you that the canard, although you might think it is a single piece of balsa--it's not. It's a built up and sheeted construction. So we fixed that---and along with the constant rough landings of the little Long EZ, let me suggest this:

When you glue the canard in the plane, use a thick CA and just tack it at the 4 corners on the top of the canard and the 4 corners on the bottom of the canard. That way if (and you probably will!) have a ground strike with the canard it will simply break loose and not break it in half! Best way to avoid a canard ground strike on landing is too immediately get out of the elevator once you touch down. Otherwise rest assured the plane will start flying again!

There is a good thread in the RCU archives that can be found by searching "Long EZ engine placement" or the sorts. Thats where I picked up a bunch of tips before attempting to fly my plane. Check it out.
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Old 10-27-2006, 06:19 PM
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Default RE: Long-EZ 46 Conversion to Electric

Rube,

Thanks for all the great tips. Can you please provide more details on the 15mm settings? When you say the "front of the canard" are you measuring from the midline or bottom surface of the canard? Did you experiment to determine this setup? I think not doing this may be the cause for many of the bad Long-EZ experiences we've read about on here. I will definitely be including this in my build. (Finally underway.)
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Old 10-27-2006, 06:43 PM
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Default RE: Long-EZ 46 Conversion to Electric

I forgot to ask, do you have problems telling the orientation of the plane when it's flying? I plan to add red checkerboard to the underside of the wing and use a red spinner so I can tell which way it is going.
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Old 10-28-2006, 11:20 AM
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Default RE: Long-EZ 46 Conversion to Electric

Here are some images of my Long-EZ and electric equipment just waiting to be assembled. The first image is the RichModel kit contents (minus the canopy). I forgot to include it in the picture. It is the same design that bobz pictured in a previous post. The second image is the power equipment. All components were recommended by Hobby Lobby's glow to electric conversion department. (See their website.) Equipment includes: AXI 2826/10 OUTRUNNER Brushless Motor, Jeti Advance PLUS 70 Amp Opto Brushless Controller, Ultimate BEC, 11x8.5 APC Electric Prop. (Not shown: PolyQuest "Twenty" 4 Cell 14.8V 3700 mAh LiPo Pack). THe thrid image shows the manufacturer's attempt to run tubing for rudder push rods in the wing. (One wing has the tube the other doesn't.) No other components (vetical stabilizers) show any intent to include rudder so I guess they initially intended to have this control but decided against it. I was going to try to add rudder to my build but have since changed my mind. The forth image shows one of the wing servo bays that I have reinforced as recommended in an earlier post. (I think Rube mentioned to do this.) I will continue to post images as the build progresses.
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Old 10-28-2006, 01:04 PM
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Default RE: Long-EZ 46 Conversion to Electric

that is a tube for your antenna..not a rudder tube...because with a rear engine..the prop would slice off your antenna.

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