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  1. #1
    opjose's Avatar
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    Purple Brushless Electric Ultimate BiPe

    I just received my "Purple Brushless Electric Ultimate BiPe" from Nitroplanes.
    (The blue ones are still available, why didn't I order a blue one!).



    It looks to be a very nicely built plane.

    The motor mounts are done so that you can directly bolt your brushless out runner's X-mount directly to the firewall box.

    The mount screw receptacles slide to accommodate motors of varying sizes.

    There is an easily accessible battery hatch that needs either a latch or a magnetic hold down.

    This looks like it will be a VERY quick build model as most (but not all) of the parts merely screw or bolt down.

    The upper and lower wings are fully joined, but the aileron, rudder and elevators need to be CA'd.

    Upper and lower wings mount via bolt on supports on both the center carbane and the wing struts.

    The recommended 400T motor is sold out on the NP site. (ugh!)

    I ordered a A20-30m from them which looks like a close replacement.



    This motor mounts with the mounting holes in their innermost position on the mounting block. A larger motor could be accommodated.

    Pluses:
    Quick build
    Nice motor mounts
    Nice bolt on wing supports and carbane
    Battery hatch
    Light but well built, no wrinkles on mine.
    Thick gear.

    Minuses
    Wheels far too spongy, will deform if left on floor.
    Instructions a bit sparse, but manageable if you've put together other ARFs.
    Supplied CA hinges are very small.
    Gear support blocks could stand to be thicker, or re-enforced... I'll be doing the latter.

    Errors:

    The manual states that this plane accepts 4 mini servos. This is incorrect. The servo mounts will only accept micro servos.
    Approx .93"x46" in Length and width.

    I ended up with the wrong servos.



    Hint: NP could make more sales if each plane had a listing of compatible parts that they carry, and are in STOCK.



    There is an art . . . to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.

  2. #2

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    RE: Purple Brushless Electric Ultimate BiPe

    I've got the blue one. When it is a clear blue sky with scattered and broken white clouds I wish I had the purple one!

    The plane does go together quickly. I'm using a Park 450 outrunner, Phoenix 35 ESC and TP 2100 battery. Still testing to find the "right" propeller. Flies really well, wound up removing the wheel pants and using larger dubro lightweight wheels to fly off grass.

    I could only find one "disapointment" in the whole assembly process.....being the outer wing strut attachment points for the bottom wing. The holes for the angle brackets are started on the bottom of the top wing, but the striping of the covering job on the top of the bottom wing leaves you with no "guide" holes for the brackets! So I just fit it all together and measured top wing tip to corner of stabilizer on both sides to get those even, and measure from edge of fuselage out to strut same on both sides to get it right....main thing is making sure nothing is being stressed before you mark things and drill the holes.

    You can stiffen up the landing gear mounting plate significantly by CA'ing a 1/4" square length of hard balsa along the inside edge of the fuselage atop the plate from the front of the battery door cross member back to the former that the bottom wing fits into.

    Other than that little miscue, the little plane is DEFINITELY a BUY vs. other ARFs in it's class!

  3. #3
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    RE: Purple Brushless Electric Ultimate BiPe

    I haven't put mine together yet.

    What size wheels did you go with and what type? Rubber, Ultralites?

    What props have you tried?

    Re: Balsa

    Yeap exactly what I planned on doing.

    Nice looking plane. Post a pic!

    There is an art . . . to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.

  4. #4
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    RE: Purple Brushless Electric Ultimate BiPe

    I'd also love to know what those rubber "O" rings and shaft collars are for in the motor picture above.

    There is an art . . . to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.

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    RE: Purple Brushless Electric Ultimate BiPe

    Pictures of my blue Ultimate before removing the wheel pants are here:

    http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_4895258/tm.htm

    As for the wheels I'm using now, they are the Dubro "ultra light weight" or the sorts in a 2" wheel. They look just like the old Dubro low bounce wheels but have a tread, they are made of foam on a plastic/nylon hub and weigh virtually nothing.

    Props: I started out with the APC 9X6E that I had on the Park 450 powering my little electric Long EZ that was turning in reverse rotation on that plane. That one worked well and with the 2100 lipo the flight time was better than 20 minutes.

    Next prop was a APC 9X6 slow flyer. Good power, but the speed control seemed to intermittently cut out....we were thinking maybe it was over-revving that prop.

    Next was an E-Flite 10X8, the black plastic one that E-Flite suggests to use with the Mini Ultra Stick. Probably pulled the best of the 3, not quite enough to do 3D and the speed control told the battery to give it up after about 13 minutes.

    Static testing shows that an APC 10X7E should be marginally 3D'able, the best power/flight time prop I'm thinking may be the APC 10X5E, but have yet to actually fly the plane with either of those to date.


    Oh, BTW----if I were you and haven't yet assembled the tail, you might want to fabricate a piece of stiff wire to join the elevator halves before you hinge it to the stabilizer. Otherwise the side that has the horn is going to deflect further than the side that doesn't due to the torsional twist in the wood joiner. I poked a couple holes with a T pin where the wood joiner is and soaked it with thin CA in an attempt to stiffen the joiner as it is, don't think I gained much by doing that.

  6. #6
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    RE: Purple Brushless Electric Ultimate BiPe

    ORIGINAL: Rube Goldberg

    Oh, BTW----if I were you and haven't yet assembled the tail, you might want to fabricate a piece of stiff wire to join the elevator halves before you hinge it to the stabilizer. Otherwise the side that has the horn is going to deflect further than the side that doesn't due to the torsional twist in the wood joiner. I poked a couple holes with a T pin where the wood joiner is and soaked it with thin CA in an attempt to stiffen the joiner as it is, don't think I gained much by doing that.
    Thanks!

    Yes is a problem with MANY planes.

    I can't picture exactly on what you mean about the wire.

    Where does it go? Between the two halves but futher to the back to provide more torsional stability?

    Or Epoxied into the wood joiner itself.

    Even on the larger models, elevators with a joiner wire and only one horn have the same problem.

    I'm looking for an easy fix.

    ---

    I'm wondering if I need to stiffen the tail as I usually do with CF support struts (laid out like rigging).

    I do this on my planes which are .46 or larger. I haven't done it on my one .30 plane, though I guess I should.



    There is an art . . . to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.

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    RE: Purple Brushless Electric Ultimate BiPe

    1) Find a piece of say 1/4" hardwood dowel, about 6" long. Next take a 1/16" drill bit and electric drill. Drill into end of dowel along the length of the dowel for about 1". Now remove the drill bit, insert the part that was in the drill into the dowel. CA it in the dowel. Now you have the most handy "hand drill" you could ever want to ream clevis', start holes for servo screws, you name it.

    2) Stiffen the tail up on your Ultimate Bipe. Take a piece of hard music wire, say 1/16" and measure the span between the two elevators and then add a bit to each end (the measurement that is). Bend a 90 degree angle in one end, make it about 1/2" long, then the span distance between the elevators plus a bit and then another 90 degree bend the same direction as the first.

    3) Use your newly made hand drill and drill holes into the leading edge of each elevator halve that will coincide with the length of the wire you just made. Drill the holes perpindicular to the leading edge of the elevator and parallel to the top/bottom surface of the elevator to a depth of the length of wire on your 90 degree bends.

    4) Peel back the covering on the leading edge of the elevator where the wire will span across the two elevator halves, i.e. between the holes you drilled. Use the hand drill in a "scooping" motion across the leading edge of the elevator to make the recess for the wire. Once you've got that done CA glue the wire into place and you're done.

  8. #8
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    RE: Purple Brushless Electric Ultimate BiPe

    Got it...

    I understand what you mean now. Basically a "U" joiner.

    That's a good idea. Will do!

    There is an art . . . to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.

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    RE: Purple Brushless Electric Ultimate BiPe

    Just to update the thread with propeller choices---I'm pretty much settled on the APC 9X6SF (Slow Flyer) propeller. Flew the little Ultimate a few times this past weekend, and although you definitely aren't going to 3D this little plane with the Park 450 and 9X6SF, for all around general flying and aerobatics I think this one is going to be the best trade off in power vs. flight time.

    Besides, you don't have to cut out the openings in the dandy little red spinner that you get with the ARF

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    RE: Purple Brushless Electric Ultimate BiPe

    al salam alaikum ,

    Hi opjose, this is a very nice post you have here .. very explainable and nicely organized ... the Ultimate looks great i hope i will get to that level soon for i am a beginner still . Thank you for your information

    Raad,
    robm-2@msn.com

  11. #11
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    RE: Purple Brushless Electric Ultimate BiPe

    Welcome.

    I wouldn't recommend this plane for a beginner though.

    It should be (I haven't flown or built mine yet) a quick and responsive flyer.

    A bit too much for someone starting out.

    There is an art . . . to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.

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    RE: Purple Brushless Electric Ultimate BiPe

    Just a note from some further propeller testing with the Park 450/Phoenix 35/11.1V lipo battery in the little Ultimate bipe---should definitely be 3D'able with an APC 11X4.7E propeller, but this prop makes the plane fly really funky in general flight. I think it is just too much torque for the short wingspan. APC 9X7.5SF propeller is a bit better to get off the grass strip vs. the 9X6SF, the little Ultimate will cruise around nicely at about 65% power in a no wind situation and the battery run time is very near that of the 9X6SF at 15 minutes or so. Aerobatics are fine as well.
    The suggested flight control throws are waaaaaaay too much. About 7 mm up/down for the ailerons and the elevator is plenty. Much more in the elevator will tend to cause a snap roll at the top of a loop on its own.....spins are very tight and make sure you have plenty of altitude to recover. Recovery is basically just let go of the sticks, but get on the power quick or else the dreaded "secondary stall" is just right around the corner!
    I've probably put 25 or so flights on mine, it just gets better every flight--especially on a very calm day just tooling around.

  13. #13
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    RE: Purple Brushless Electric Ultimate BiPe

    As funny as it sounds, you may want to INCREASE the elevator throw to prevent the out of round loop.

    There is a point with ANY Ultimate, where the throw setting for the elevator, during a loop, causes one of the wings to stall.

    You see this as a snap or out of round loop tendancy as one wing has stalled because of a too high loop rate.

    Now if you INCREASE the throws, BOTH wings will stall evenly... causing a tight stall loop.

    I find the point where the stall look occurs and make sure that I have this set (or more) for my high rates.

    Then I set my low rates to the point BELOW where this no longer occurs.

    So now I get good loops in low rates, and stall loops using high rates.

    This also fixes a few other things such as with blenders and snap rolls.

    It seems to be endemic to the Ultimate design since all my Ultimates do the same thing no matter their size.
    They even do this in the SIMs (such as G3) and you can verify what I am telling you in the sim.... actually that is how I found this on a larger Ultimate.

    Check out other threads here where others have had the same problem (Darock for instance) and he tried the above and found it to work for his much larger glow Ultimate.

    ---

    I LIKE my controls responsive, so I'm usually waaay over the recommended on the Ultimates.

    30-50 percent Expo cures any control difficulties. I would recommend setting your high rates this way... and toning down your low rates to be below the specs.

    ---

    I'm using the 9x6E prop btw.

    There is an art . . . to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.

  14. #14
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    RE: Purple Brushless Electric Ultimate BiPe


    ORIGINAL: Rube Goldberg

    I could only find one "disapointment" in the whole assembly process.....being the outer wing strut attachment points for the bottom wing. The holes for the angle brackets are started on the bottom of the top wing, but the striping of the covering job on the top of the bottom wing leaves you with no "guide" holes for the brackets! So I just fit it all together and measured top wing tip to corner of stabilizer on both sides to get those even, and measure from edge of fuselage out to strut same on both sides to get it right....main thing is making sure nothing is being stressed before you mark things and drill the holes.
    I'm just about to this point in the construction and I noticed this too.

    I haven't fitted the wings yet to see where the lower strut will meet the wing...

    So here is a question for you...

    On yours did the "L" brackets mount into the sheeted area the the front of the lower wing?

    Or does something else have to be done.?

    I was already contemplating cutting the covering and installing small hardwood blocks much like the upper wings have.

    If this is required I also want to fire off a message to NP about this shortcoming.

    If however the "L" brackets do mount into the existing wood, then it is just a matter of alignment (predrilled holes like in the upper wing would help a lot in this case...)
    There is an art . . . to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.

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    RE: Purple Brushless Electric Ultimate BiPe

    To be quite honest with you on where to mount the lower strut tabs------I looked at the picture on the box and then took the center-center measurement between the tabs on the top wing and applied that to the bottom wing. Had the struts connected to the top wing, fit it into place and making sure there wasn't any "rack" in the top wing by measuring between the corners at the trailing edge to the stabilizer, letting the struts hang into position at the measured points, look at the box again, place the metal angles on the wing, look at the box again, take the "hand drill" and go for it......apparently I hit wood 'cause its all tight as it worked out---no need to cut and add a ply plate. No problems to date, it all stays tight, although the top wing will rotate forward/aft just a bit when you work the ailerons due to the twisting of the single cabane strut.

    I imagine the "starter holes" for the angles are in fact pre-drilled in the bottom wing, just that I couldn't find them under the superb covering job just by looking. You might try and hold the wing over a very bright light and see if you can discern the holes......or perhaps heat the area with a monokote iron and see if the holes appear?

    For what it's worth, on mine anyways, the holes for the tabs in the bottom wing wound up in the white area between the blue and grey covering; the inner hole is just a fuzz forward of the grey and the outer hole just a fuzz rearward of the blue.

    BTW---unrelated to the wing mounting, I did add a 1/4 ounce piece of lead to the top of the engine mount right behind the firewall on mine----had it balanced to plan before and it flew just a tad tail low---the little piece of lead made a world of difference in the handling of the plane.

  16. #16
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    RE: Purple Brushless Electric Ultimate BiPe

    Thanks!!!

    I'll give that a shot.

    There is an art . . . to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.

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    RE: Purple Brushless Electric Ultimate BiPe

    I can honestly say I've been "flying the wheels off this plane"
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

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  18. #18
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    RE: Purple Brushless Electric Ultimate BiPe

    Finally got around to finish my plane...

    But there are two things left that are annoying/troubling me...

    1 - How to hold the battery in place.

    2 - How to latch or close the battery door.



    I don't like the screw solution that NP provided so I'm looking for something else for the door.

    I also don't like velcroing the battery to the interior, due to the space provided.

    Any ideas on either topic?

    The 20-30M motor appears as if it will pull the little plane around like a rocket.

    The plane is VERY light on the nose though with this setup.

    There is an art . . . to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.

  19. #19
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    RE: Purple Brushless Electric Ultimate BiPe

    Well I maidened my little BiPE today.

    The battery door is being held by two magnets. The magnets are epoxied into the fuselage, and there is a corresponding washer in the door for each one.

    I fashioned a battery tray that goes from the firewall to the area over the wing. This permits me to mount larger batteries lengthwise.

    I'm currently running the plane with 2000mAh and 2200mAh batteries that I already had for other planes.

    Throws are adjusted beyond the specs. Low rate Expo at 15, high at 30%.

    At first I thought that I was having problems getting the C.G. set up properly... the curvature of the wing airfoil caused me to misread the C.G. position as the plane nosed up a bit when held at the location the manual calls for. The airfoil shape caused this not the C.G. position which I had right.

    I find the plane rather docile with the above setup and the 9x6E prop. It's not as responsive in rolls as my Ultimate 40S... probably because I am flying it relatively slowly with the 9x6E prop. I may need something larger... but I don't want to burn out the ESC as I'm only using a 15Amp one.

    I don't have enough output to hover the plane.

    The plane flies nicely though. Not twitchy at all.

    Still wish I had gotten the blue one....

    There is an art . . . to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.

  20. #20

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    RE: Purple Brushless Electric Ultimate BiPe

    Just yesterday I replaced my regular size (147DF) Futaba receiver that I had in my little Ultimate with one of the GWS 6 channel receivers. Test flew it and it flew fine. This effectively "freed up" my Futaba receiver for the next project......

    I'm pretty much set on the APC 9X7.5 Slow Flyer prop for my Park 450. I've tried a bunch of different props and although I do like the APC 9X6E, the 9X7.5 gives a flight time of about 13 minutes on a 2100 battery, plenty of speed but it aint gonna 3D. I'm sure it would 3D with an APC 11X4.7, but at a major cost in flight time......and since I could care less about 3D it's not a consideration.

    As for mounting the TP/Apex 2100 batteries, I'm just using a block of soft foam to fill the void between the firewall and the first former wedging the battery between the foam and the bottom of the fuselage.....and still "screwing around" with that battery door.

    Take my word for it----on a partly cloudy day you'll be GLAD you got the purple one!

  21. #21
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    RE: Purple Brushless Electric Ultimate BiPe

    Yeah I looked at the Park 450 as a possible replacement motor, but this doesn't buy me anything over what I have now. It sounds like we are running about the same setup.

    My plane comes in at 26oz all up flying weight.

    I need far more than that, as "pull" to get hovers.

    A 200-300watt motor should do, but then I'm also talking about reducing flight times and getting a new motor and ESC...

    I'm not displeased with the current setup, but it would have been nice to have unlimited vertical as well. The speed is fine as is.

    I'm going to try a 10.4.7 slow flyer prop next.

    I really like the magnets for the hatch.

    I drilled holes where the lip is closest to the gear and expoxied in two round magnets.

    I then placed two metal washers flush into the door, so that they have full contact with the magnets.

    This is more than strong enough to hold the door in place, and permits quick access to the battery area.

    With the longitudinal battery tray, I can put in much longer batteries lengthwise... although I'm happy with the 2200mAh.

    I've run the plane with 1800mAh, 2000mAh and 2200mAh batteries thus far. I merely move the larger batteries a bit further back to keep the C.G. in line.

    Actually I find that the stated C.G. is a bit too far forward.

    There is an art . . . to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.

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    RE: Purple Brushless Electric Ultimate BiPe

    I"ve been reading all the posts on this bipe , and have one on the way. Do you think a 10x7 prop on a 800kv motor will be ok?
    RC pilots are outstanding in the field !!

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    RE: Purple Brushless Electric Ultimate BiPe

    Which actual motor?

    While the KV rating shows you how many revolutions the motor is SUPPOSED to produce per volt, it does not indicate other factors such as it's efficency, power consumption, etc.

    So what motor and ESC are you going to use?

    And then what prop?

    A 10x7E APC prop may draw far more current than what I'm running, and the plane is likely to be FASTER, but not necessarily produce more torque for hovers than my 10x4.7...

    There is an art . . . to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.

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    RE: Purple Brushless Electric Ultimate BiPe

    Its a cheap motor with a 35 amp esc. I would rate it a little stronger then a e-flight 400.
    RC pilots are outstanding in the field !!

  25. #25
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    RE: Purple Brushless Electric Ultimate BiPe

    I have an E-flite 400 on a E-Flite Ultimate FX foamy. It is just about the equivalent of the motor I am using on my NP BiPE, hence my results. I believe the A20-30L is slightly more powerful... but not by much if so.

    The 10x7 may be too much prop for this motor and the NP Ultimate... however it's hard to tell.

    Your "cheap" motor may be capable of handling the additional load, it depends upon the number of windings and the wire used, etc.
    On the other hand I'll bet it will be anemic with the 10x7E prop.

    I would suggest something a little smaller or with less pitch... though you have nothing to loose if you install the prop and run a test.

    I doubt that you'll blow the ESC with your motor and that prop... according to most of the calculators you are well BELOW the range of the ESC no matter what.

    Hold the plane and run it up full throttle with the plane held straight up.

    Does it feel like motor is capable of pulling the plane straight up? Can you practically let go of the plane?

    If so the prop should be fairly good with your combo.

    If you get less than this much output (as I do) how much less?

    In my case it is as if the motor can ALMOST lift the plane, but not quite.

    There is an art . . . to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.


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