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  1. #1

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    93A04-AirField-F4-BlueAngel-RTF

    I purchased on of these planes, and I have yet to get it off the gorund. After I put the plane together, the ESC burned out within 3 seconds of power up. I talked to my club members that have been around this stuff for years, and they told me that there had to be an overload from the motor to do this. After the weekend I contacted Nitroplane, and I had to send the ESC, and motor back, costing me more shipping. I tracked the parts getting there, and after about a dozen phone calllson the previous week they finally sent the parts out and it toke a week to get here, that Friday night I put the parts in, and headed to the field Saturday morning, still no fly. The plane would not even taxi, there wass little power, and motor was sticking on fireup,and the elevator were stuck in the take-off position. We determined after on person just laid his thumb on the trim pod there was something wrong with the transmitter, because the elevators went back to level position. I called Nitroplanes latter that day, and once I was ablee to get throughthey wanted me to send the hole plane back to take a look at, fix the problem and send it back,well after checking on shipping, USPS was going to cost $107, UPS was $80, and FED-X was $79. After I calledback to Nitroplanes and dicussed the problem shipping the plane to them, because I am on a fixed income, and the money that was spent on the plane so far because of shipping. Theywould send theme a different transmitter, 2 servos because we were thinking it might be servos too, and a new ducted fan motor. After a week the parts were finally on my way to my house. I replaced the parts the evening that i recieved them and headed to the field with hig hopes. Well hope was the only thing that left, because the plane would taxi, but that was all. We looked at the planes some more and wondered if the ESC needed programed, we would not know because there is no paper work on it. We hooked a watt meter to the plane and the esc was only putting out 130 watts. After leaveing the field we went to the airfields marchells house and he hooked up a 20a ESC to the plane and it puched out 400 watts, so we determined thatif the 50a ESC can be programed it needed to be, or the ESC was bad. After getting home I spent all afternoon trying to get ahold of Nitroplanes,after reaching some Paul on support he told me that there was no program, then I said that I needed a new ESC. He becamevery short with me and told me thatI was out of warrenty, and they would not send anymore parts. Then I contacted Jimmy on line and the samething was told to me.So then Jimmy wantedme send the plane back for refund, which is going to cost me shipping again andplusa 15% stocking fee. If Iknown that I would have been paying all this money to have them want to restock the plane and charge me plus lose out money forshipping I would have justkeeped the money for adifferentplane somewhere else. All I want is an ESC that works right!!

  2. #2

    RE: 93A04-AirField-F4-BlueAngel-RTF

    ok what's your order number?

    Lets do things step by step. Please connect only the ESC to the receiver. Turn on the radio, throttle and speed trim down. The connect the battery to the ESC and wait 5 seconds. If you put throttle up, doesn't the fan spin? If not, please make sure the fan blade are spinning freely and it's not binding.

    Let me know.

    Andy
    THE BEST LIPO BATTERIES
    http://www.hobbypartz.com/lipobatteries.html

  3. #3

    RE: 93A04-AirField-F4-BlueAngel-RTF


    ORIGINAL: nitrostaff1

    ok what's your order number?

    Lets do things step by step. Please connect only the ESC to the receiver. Turn on the radio, throttle and speed trim down. The connect the battery to the ESC and wait 5 seconds. If you put throttle up, doesn't the fan spin? If not, please make sure the fan blade are spinning freely and it's not binding. If the esc has problem again. I'll send you a tested esc, which has been verified myself.

    Let me know.

    Andy
    THE BEST LIPO BATTERIES
    http://www.hobbypartz.com/lipobatteries.html

  4. #4

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    RE: 93A04-AirField-F4-BlueAngel-RTF

    Order #770230, I have done this what you tell me and the motor does spin free, sometimes on start up the motor freezes.

  5. #5

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    RE: 93A04-AirField-F4-BlueAngel-RTF


    ORIGINAL: moedegrasse79

    Order #770230, I have done this what you tell me and the motor does spin free, sometimes on start up the motor freezes.
    The beeps are very low can barely hear. It gives a series of four quick beeps then a set of 5 single beeps, then a set of 5 double beeps. The first ESC that came with the plane that burned up with in 3 seconds gave loud beeps when I hooked up the battery, but this one is very quite, you almost have to put your ear next to it, and this was after a full charge of the battery. I am not that knowledgeable about the ESC and the batteries, but the guys at the club have been doing this for awhile, and when one of them hooked a 20A to my plane and it pushed out 400 watts compared to the 50A that is in the plane only push 130 watts, well even I can tell that there is something wrong with this picture. So if you will help out that will be great, but I have a question for you other than the problem with the plane. Why are you willing to help me when Jimmy,Paul, and afew otherswould not, saying that my plane is out of warrenty when i have yet to see it fly. I am not trying to rip the company off, its just if the problem was fixed, I would go away and you would never hear from me again.

  6. #6

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    RE: 93A04-AirField-F4-BlueAngel-RTF

    Will I ever get the help I need, does anybody that have problems on here get things made right?
    ORIGINAL: moedegrasse79

    I purchased on of these planes, and I have yet to get it off the gorund. After I put the plane together, the ESC burned out within 3 seconds of power up. I talked to my club members that have been around this stuff for years, and they told me that there had to be an overload from the motor to do this. After the weekend I contacted Nitroplane, and I had to send the ESC, and motor back, costing me more shipping. I tracked the parts getting there, and after about a dozen phone calllson the previous week they finally sent the parts out and it toke a week to get here, that Friday night I put the parts in, and headed to the field Saturday morning, still no fly. The plane would not even taxi, there wass little power, and motor was sticking on fireup,and the elevator were stuck in the take-off position. We determined after on person just laid his thumb on the trim pod there was something wrong with the transmitter, because the elevators went back to level position. I called Nitroplanes latter that day, and once I was ablee to get throughthey wanted me to send the hole plane back to take a look at, fix the problem and send it back,well after checking on shipping, USPS was going to cost $107, UPS was $80, and FED-X was $79. After I calledback to Nitroplanes and dicussed the problem shipping the plane to them, because I am on a fixed income, and the money that was spent on the plane so far because of shipping. Theywould send theme a different transmitter, 2 servos because we were thinking it might be servos too, and a new ducted fan motor. After a week the parts were finally on my way to my house. I replaced the parts the evening that i recieved them and headed to the field with hig hopes. Well hope was the only thing that left, because the plane would taxi, but that was all. We looked at the planes some more and wondered if the ESC needed programed, we would not know because there is no paper work on it. We hooked a watt meter to the plane and the esc was only putting out 130 watts. After leaveing the field we went to the airfields marchells house and he hooked up a 20a ESC to the plane and it puched out 400 watts, so we determined thatif the 50a ESC can be programed it needed to be, or the ESC was bad. After getting home I spent all afternoon trying to get ahold of Nitroplanes,after reaching some Paul on support he told me that there was no program, then I said that I needed a new ESC. He becamevery short with me and told me thatI was out of warrenty, and they would not send anymore parts. Then I contacted Jimmy on line and the samething was told to me.So then Jimmy wantedme send the plane back for refund, which is going to cost me shipping again andplusa 15% stocking fee. If Iknown that I would have been paying all this money to have them want to restock the plane and charge me plus lose out money forshipping I would have justkeeped the money for adifferentplane somewhere else. All I want is an ESC that works right!!

  7. #7
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    RE: 93A04-AirField-F4-BlueAngel-RTF


    ORIGINAL: moedegrasse79

    Will I ever get the help I need, does anybody that have problems on here get things made right?
    You have Andy himself trying to help you.

    However you may not understand that he is not on here every day.

    It can be a few days before he responds again.

    -

    BTW:

    The ESC itself does not make any sound.

    The sound comes from the motor.

    If the sound is rather muted, you should check the ESC to motor connections as one may be disconnected causing the low sound levels.

    Also it appears that your ESC is in programming mode or throwing an error at startup, hence the beep pattern.

    Normally the ESC will produce a single beep or musical sequence, followed by a pause and then a number of beeps.

    The number of beeps correspond to the number of LiPo CELLS the ESC thinks the battery has.

    If the ESC is set to "auto-detect" the LiPo cell count, it should figure this out by itself.

    If the ESC is set/programmed for a specific number of cells, ( which is normally BETTER ), but the number of cells it is programmed for does NOT correspond to what you battery packs actually have, then the power level may appear low at the motor, or the ESC may fail to arm.


    Also check the connections and perform a throttle calibration.

    -

    Also what Andy is asking is not if the motor spins freely, but rather if the fan blade tips EVER contact the shroud.

    Normally new EDF's require preparation and break-in to prevent this.... particularly these inexpensive plastic fans.

    The EDF blades expand as the motor spins up due to centrifugal force.

    This will cause them to rub against the shroud causing all sorts of problems, not limited to; Burning out the ESC, overheating the motor, Damaging the battery, short flight times, etc. etc. etc.

    I've gone into the proper steps to follow in breaking in EDF's in other threads here so I'll avoid retyping the rather lengthy explanation.

    Try a search IN THIS FORUM ONLY for posts related to this process.

    -

    Also you said "I am not that knowledgeable about the ESC and the batteries, but the guys at the club have been doing this for awhile, and when one of them hooked a 20A to my plane and it pushed out 400 watts compared to the 50A that is in the plane only push 130 watts"

    They hooked a 20A WHAT?

    Battery? ESC? Motor?


    To clarify:

    The ESC does not "push out" 50A. Rather it can sustain a DRAW of 50A if it is demanded by the motor/prop or motor/EDF combo.

    Electrics are far different than glow or gas engines, as it is the propeller or fan that ultimately determines current draw.

    The KV rating of the motor determines how FAST the motor is ALWAYS trying to spin, when powered by the ESC.

    The diameter and blade count of the fan or prop determines the current draw.

    The wattage rating of the motor determines how much energy it can handle when the prop/edf commands it, without overheating.

    20A is an amount of current, but the figure does not tell anyone what it is in reference to.

    -

    Yes there is a lot to electrics, and EDF's complicate matters, which is one reason I do NOT recommend EDF's for beginners...


    There is an art . . . to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.

  8. #8

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    RE: 93A04-AirField-F4-BlueAngel-RTF

    Ok I take Andy is the big boss there is that what I am reading?And if he is he doeshave alot of work to do. The conections to the motor have been checked and I also confirmed the conection on what wiregets hooked up to what wire, by contacting Bobby on the live chat. The fan does not hit the shroud, the motor makes a sound like it wants to start but does not, it acts like there is a dead spot, this happenes when the stick is brought up slowly. on he transmitter. When plugging batery in there is 4 quick beeps and I take it that is for the battery, and after a pass, the 5 single beeps and 5 double beeps sound, then it seems to repeat the single and double beeps again.
    The 20a that the guys used at the field is a 20 amp ESC , and it was hooked to the battery , with a meter between the battery and ESC, then to the motor, after we pulled the 50a ESC that is in the plane out. This process was also done with the 50a ESC in place with the meter in the same spot. Which leads use to think that the 50a ESC, that came with the plane needs to be programed or replaced, because there was more power and watts sent to the motor, with the 20a ESC hooked up in place of the 50a ESC.
    As far as being a beginner on this matter does not have anything to due to this, because the guy that I have working on this problem here at the club, does have at least two ducted fan planes, and he had these planes for a number of years. This person that I speak of has been involved in battery, nito, and gas planes, and helis for22 years, 3 years with the EDF's. He also builds alot ofhis planes. I do not work on the planes by myself unless I have been told knowledge of how to do it or he shows me.

  9. #9

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    RE: 93A04-AirField-F4-BlueAngel-RTF

    I forgot to add something and I hope you people understand that this plane has been sitting on my TV and has yet to be put in the air by an experiecned pilot, because the two times that it has been out there the first time did not even taxi, and the second time it did taxi, but did not have enough power to leave the ground, and both times an experienced pilot had the controls in his hand. I just feel that my experience has been used too much as to that I am doing something wrong, but what it really comes down to that it has never left the ground, and I wonder if the plane will leave the ground before winter sets back in here in Pennsylvania. Please understand that I think that this club that I belong to has been here for 40 years, and the members that I have had working on my planes have had at least 15 or close to 30 years of experience. Here is my thoughts on the ESC thoughfrom what I have learned, They are kinda like your brakers in your house ifyou put a 10 amp breaker in the breaker box were a 30 amp breaker goes you will still get the same amount of flowof electric,but it will not handle the loadof current as longas the 30 amp breaker would, and this should still hold true with the 50 amp ESC, and the 20 amp ESC, they should put out the same amount of watts or current or what ever to the motor, it just the 20 amp ESC, will not handle the load as long as the 50 amp ESC.So all I need to know isif the 50A ESC can be programmed please send me the program and how it is done, so the guys at the field can do this, or I need the 50AESC replaced, because it has not been rightor have the right program sence it arrived here at my home.
    Here is a little story for ya. When I recieved the new 50A ESC, after the one that came with the plane burned out,I hooked up the motor and new ESC to the battery and reciever, I made a bold and stupid move of holding the ducted fan in my hand to see if it was even going to run. Well after about a minute of holding on to this I turned the stick on the transmitter and trim pod all the way up. I held on to the motor with no problems, when I look at know after we hooked the 20 amp ESC in it place on the plane I am glad that motor was inside the plane mounted, because the power that came from the motor was horrific, and I would have probably been missing a couple of finger if I was holding on to it this! So that is why we think that the 50A ESC that is in this plane know, there is something wrong with the programming or something else wrong with the 50A ESC.

  10. #10
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    RE: 93A04-AirField-F4-BlueAngel-RTF


    ORIGINAL: moedegrasse79

    The fan does not hit the shroud, the motor makes a sound like it wants to start but does not, it acts like there is a dead spot, this happenes when the stick is brought up slowly. on he transmitter.Β*
    Incorrect ESC timing will cause the motor to hiccup, or make a grinding or squeeling noise when the throttle is brought up slowly.

    To me it sounds like a stuck gear mechanism when this happens.

    ORIGINAL: moedegrasse79

    When plugging batery in there is 4 quick beeps and I take it that is for the battery,
    That means the voltage is correctly being detected ( assuming you are using a 4S LiPo pack ).

    ORIGINAL: moedegrasse79

    and after a pass, the 5 single beeps and 5 double beeps sound, then it seems to repeat the single and double beeps again.Β*
    What is "a pass"?

    The subsequent beeps sound like the ESC dropped into programming mode.

    Either; the throttle position is too high, the ESC has not been calibrated for the throttle range, or the signal is inverted from what the ESC expects.

    The fact that you DO hear the beeps indicates that the ESC is receiving a throttle signal from the receiver and TX.


    ORIGINAL: moedegrasse79

    The 20a that the guys used at the field is a 20 amp ESC , and it was hooked to the battery , with a meter between the battery and ESC, then to the motor, after we pulled the 50a ESC that is in the plane out.Β*
    You can put an RC WATT meter between the battery and ESC, but you cannot place anything between the ESC and motor.

    The signal from the ESC to the motor is pulsed and three phase, so anything read from the ESC to motor connection will be inherently wrong, unless you have some pretty sophisticated 3-phase measuring equipment...

    ORIGINAL: moedegrasse79

    This process was also done with the 50a ESC in place with the meter in the same spot.Β* Which leads use to think that the 50a ESC, that came with the plane needs to be programed or replaced, because there was more power and watts sent to the motor, with the 20a ESC hooked up in place of the 50a ESC.
    So far it sounds like it is a programming issue to me...

    This is not unusual.


    ORIGINAL: moedegrasse79

    As far as being a beginner on this matter does not have anything to due to this, because the guy that I have working on this problem here at the club, does have at least two ducted fan planes, and he had these planes for a number of years.Β*
    Β*
    The experience level of your friend not-with-standing, EDF's are not good planes for beginners.

    There are a myriad of reasons for this not the least of which is that an EDF has very little air moving over it's control surfaces when it gets slow or as it lands.

    Tractor prop planes keep a steady stream of air moving over the control surfaces.

    EDF's also require more setup, better cooling, balancing, break-in, more flying skills, etc.

    There is an art . . . to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.

  11. #11
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    RE: 93A04-AirField-F4-BlueAngel-RTF


    ORIGINAL: moedegrasse79

    Here is my thoughts on the ESC thoughΒ*from what I have learned, They are kinda like your brakers in your house ifΒ*you put a 10 amp breaker in the breaker box were a 30 amp breaker goes you will still get the same amount of flowΒ*of electric,Β*but it will not handle the loadΒ*of currentΒ* as longΒ*as the 30 amp breaker would, and this should still hold true with the 50 amp ESC, and the 20 amp ESC, they should put out the same amount of watts or current or what ever to the motor, it just the 20 amp ESC, will not handle the load as long as the 50 amp ESC.Β*Β*

    To an extent the analogy does hold, but it leaves out a few things.

    A breaker merely permits current to flow through it.

    An ESC does the same thing, but it controls the motor speed by pulsing the current duration to a pair of wires at a time.

    The motor has three sets of wires, so the ESC must alternate between them to keep the motor turning.

    The ESC also must detect back current, to be able to determine the position of the motor, and pulse the motor at the correct time.

    This is not trivial and a reason that timing and pulse width have such a large effect.

    Effectively the motor is ALWAYS trying to spin up to full speed, but it is the pulse duration that prevents it from doing so.


    ORIGINAL: moedegrasse79

    So all I need to know isΒ*if the 50A ESC can be programmed please send me the program and how it is done, so the guys at the field can do this, or I need the 50AΒ*ESC replaced, because it has not been rightΒ*or have the right program sence it arrived here at my home.Β*
    That's indeed the question....

    The thing to do is to try programming the ESC first, and if that doesn't work change it out.

    Try posting a picture of the ESC from both sides. That will help determine which manufacturer's ESC you have... as there are many, and they are used interchangeably.


    ORIGINAL: moedegrasse79

    So that is why we think that the 50A ESC that is in this plane know, there is something wrong with the programming or something else wrong with the 50A ESC.
    Yup...

    If the motor turns at ALL ( forget about the noise it makes ) it is likely that the ESC is OK as are the hookup wires... and this is all due to a programming problem.

    The ESC's tend to be all or nothing... but timing issues will produce strange or unexpected results.

    If an ESC is permitted to overheat or is burned out, that's another matter though.



    There is an art . . . to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.

  12. #12

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    RE: 93A04-AirField-F4-BlueAngel-RTF

    I am haveing problems uploading pictures of the ESC. On the front Of the ESc that is in the BlueAngle looks like this from top to bottom:, G&C Hobby
    ESC 50A brushless controler 6-14 cell 2-4 lipos
    www.fmsmodel.com
    This all the wording except for the a,b,c on the tail end of the ESC, and the positive,and negative symbols on the front.

  13. #13

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    RE: 93A04-AirField-F4-BlueAngel-RTF

    I will try again: G&C Hobby, ESC 50A, 6-14 cell 2-4 lipo, www.fmsmodel.com

  14. #14
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    RE: 93A04-AirField-F4-BlueAngel-RTF

    Try this one: Click me!

    From the description of the startup alone, it sure sounds like how yours is reacting.

    There is an art . . . to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.

  15. #15
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    RE: 93A04-AirField-F4-BlueAngel-RTF

    I assume that your ESC does NOT look like this...

    There is an art . . . to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.

  16. #16

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    RE: 93A04-AirField-F4-BlueAngel-RTF

    No it does not look like that one. I gave you the web site that is listed on the ESC that I have, but you have to look up there ESC <script type="text/javascript">var chnum = 30;var chnums = chnum;var chTimer;function chFilter(obj){if(chnums>2){chnums-=1;obj.style.filter = "progidXImageTransform.Microsoft.Pixelate(MaxSquare=" + chnums + ")";chTimer = setTimeout(function(){chFilter(obj)},5);}else{clea rTimeout(chTimer);obj.style.filter = "";chnums = chnum;}}
    [img]../Pic/Nopic_en.gif[/img]

    Click to view the big picture
    Configuration
    Style NO: 50A
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    Length:
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    ζ‰€ε±žη±»εˆ«: - Speed Controller - Electronic
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    Looks like this one

  17. #17

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    RE: 93A04-AirField-F4-BlueAngel-RTF

    do you still want me to try the programming that you sent me?

  18. #18
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    RE: 93A04-AirField-F4-BlueAngel-RTF

    Yes give it a try.

    From the description you posted previously, it SOUNDS like your ESC is behaving in exactly the same manner as indicated on that programming guide.

    Sometimes the manufacturers buy the same electronics and slap their own heat shrink and labels on them, so there is a chance they are one and the same.

    There is an art . . . to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.

  19. #19

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    RE: 93A04-AirField-F4-BlueAngel-RTF



    Ok I will try Let you know what happens.


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    RE: 93A04-AirField-F4-BlueAngel-RTF

    The only thing that happened is the most power is at half stick on the transmitter but not enough to do anything and when I move the stick completely to full power it seems to go to like an idle

  21. #21

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    RE: 93A04-AirField-F4-BlueAngel-RTF

    I just did something here. Iput the throttle in full postion with trans. on, plugged in battery herd 4 quick beeps, then one the first single beep i pulled the throttle down motor started up good but still no horrific power

  22. #22

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    RE: 93A04-AirField-F4-BlueAngel-RTF

    This is what is going on know:  I turn on the transmitter, then hook up the battery, I hear 2 beeps,(one low, and one high) then a pause then 5 single beeps.  Still no chage for power.

  23. #23
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    RE: 93A04-AirField-F4-BlueAngel-RTF

    Methinks that Andy ( nitrostaff1 ) needs to send you a different ESC.

    You've PM'd him as well correct?

    There is an art . . . to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.

  24. #24

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    RE: 93A04-AirField-F4-BlueAngel-RTF

    PM'd him I do not know what this means.  Well I have a story for ya now.  Took the plane to the club this morning and we tried to program the ESC, but now luck.  So my mentor and teacher, the guy that has been working on this problem here with me took a 40 amp ESC out of one of his planes, and we took mine out of my plane, and hooked his ESC in the places of mine.  He walked out to the middle of the runway with the BlueAngle in hand, sat it down on the runway, (now mind you that his ESC out of his plane is now in the BlueAngle) started with little throttle, thengave full throttle.  That plane tilted back on the rear landing gear and shot into the sky like a rocket.  1-2 minute flight the plane comes in for landing, FLIGHT SUCCESS!!!!!  So to make this short my ESC is bad, bad, and bad.  So yes I need Andy to send me a new ESC, my order # was 770230, or after the all the parts exchange that were bad, that number was RMA770230.  Address is Mike DeGrasse ,102 Clairmont Dr. Altoona, Pa. 16601

  25. #25
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    RE: 93A04-AirField-F4-BlueAngel-RTF

    To PM him, click on the left hand of any of his posts.

    Click on "nitrostaff1".

    You'll be taken to a new page.

    On that page in the middle there are a series of TINY icons.

    One looks like a cartoon dialog balloon.

    Hovering the mouse over it, will make it read "PM". Click on the PM icon.

    Give him your order number and tell him about needing a working ESC, then reference this thread as well.

    There is an art . . . to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.


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