1.60 FX Bearings
03-26-2003, 12:33 AM
#1
Member
Thread Starter
My Feedback: (4)
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Rowlett,
TX
Posts: 93
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
1.60 FX Bearings
I have a 1.60 FX that I purchased a couple of years ago that sat in the box untouched until recently.
The engine was bench run for break-in. Three 14 ounce tank bench runs with progressive leaning per the instructions using a balanced 16-10 prop, and Powermaster 10% fuel. Muffler used for bench runs was a BGX-1 OS muffler. The engine ran well with no overheating, and had the expected rich idle and slobbery transition. Following bench runs, the engine was run with Hangar 9 Final Run Fuel (no nitro) for approximately 2 minutes. Ultra Oil after run oil was used to fully wet the internal components. The engine bearings were extremely smooth, with no noise/feel at all.
The engine was installed in a Sig Extra 300, using large fuel tubing throughout, large clunk, and a cowling baffle was installed to ensure proper cooling (especially the bearing area of the engine case). Cowling exit area was approximately 3 times the inlet. A Slimline Pitts muffler was installed. No fuel filler was used, just a T-fitting and fuel dot for filling. After installation in the aircraft, it was run with a balanced APC 18-8W prop/TruTurn spinner. Peak was 8,500 R.P.M., and then enrichened down 500. No heating problems were encurred, and the idle and high settings were adjusted to get a slightly rich idle and rich high end as needed to further break-in the engine. High winds preventing my flying that day, so final run fuel, and after run oil was applied as mentioned previously. Still no bearing issues noted.
2 months later (last Sunday 03-23-03) the aircraft was flown twice with excellent results. The engine was rich at mid-range and high end, with a good idle. On both flights the engine was at high power only during takeoff, and the engine was cleared (throttle-up) a couple of times each flight,and before landing approach on both flights. After the second flight I wanted to check to see if the engine cooling was adequate, and I was able to touch the case and head through the cowling inlet with only a nice war- but not hot feel. There was no signs of a bearing problem at the field, and final run fuel and after-run oil was again applied. When I cleaned the airplane exterior that evening, I noticed a noisy sound when I rotated the prop. I had a feeling trouble had started. The next evening I went to check the engine and the prop would hardly move. I rotated it a little, and you know the rest. The bearings are history.
Obviously since the engine sat in the box un-used for 2 years, I would be surprised if it received warranty considerations. I obviously would like to have the engine running again in short order, and I hope to purchase and install the new bearings this week. I would however like for you to look at the information I provided, and advise if you have any suggestions as to why this happened.
Thank you in advance,
Rex Rutledge
The engine was bench run for break-in. Three 14 ounce tank bench runs with progressive leaning per the instructions using a balanced 16-10 prop, and Powermaster 10% fuel. Muffler used for bench runs was a BGX-1 OS muffler. The engine ran well with no overheating, and had the expected rich idle and slobbery transition. Following bench runs, the engine was run with Hangar 9 Final Run Fuel (no nitro) for approximately 2 minutes. Ultra Oil after run oil was used to fully wet the internal components. The engine bearings were extremely smooth, with no noise/feel at all.
The engine was installed in a Sig Extra 300, using large fuel tubing throughout, large clunk, and a cowling baffle was installed to ensure proper cooling (especially the bearing area of the engine case). Cowling exit area was approximately 3 times the inlet. A Slimline Pitts muffler was installed. No fuel filler was used, just a T-fitting and fuel dot for filling. After installation in the aircraft, it was run with a balanced APC 18-8W prop/TruTurn spinner. Peak was 8,500 R.P.M., and then enrichened down 500. No heating problems were encurred, and the idle and high settings were adjusted to get a slightly rich idle and rich high end as needed to further break-in the engine. High winds preventing my flying that day, so final run fuel, and after run oil was applied as mentioned previously. Still no bearing issues noted.
2 months later (last Sunday 03-23-03) the aircraft was flown twice with excellent results. The engine was rich at mid-range and high end, with a good idle. On both flights the engine was at high power only during takeoff, and the engine was cleared (throttle-up) a couple of times each flight,and before landing approach on both flights. After the second flight I wanted to check to see if the engine cooling was adequate, and I was able to touch the case and head through the cowling inlet with only a nice war- but not hot feel. There was no signs of a bearing problem at the field, and final run fuel and after-run oil was again applied. When I cleaned the airplane exterior that evening, I noticed a noisy sound when I rotated the prop. I had a feeling trouble had started. The next evening I went to check the engine and the prop would hardly move. I rotated it a little, and you know the rest. The bearings are history.
Obviously since the engine sat in the box un-used for 2 years, I would be surprised if it received warranty considerations. I obviously would like to have the engine running again in short order, and I hope to purchase and install the new bearings this week. I would however like for you to look at the information I provided, and advise if you have any suggestions as to why this happened.
Thank you in advance,
Rex Rutledge
03-26-2003, 03:53 PM
#2
My Feedback: (11)
1.60 FX Bearings
Rex,
Sorry, but without seeing the entire engine so that we can see the context, we'd not know why the bearings would go out so fast. The normal preservatives O.S. uses should keep corrosion at bay for several years if the engine's never run. Once it's run, that oil is gone.
We're not familiar with the "Final Run" fuel, so we can't comment on it. It's possible that just not enough after-run oil was put into the engine to give it good corrosion protection, if that's what the problem is. A few drops down the intake is just not enough.
To properly use an after-run product, you need to make sure sufficient oil is put into the engine to make sure all components get a good wetting with the product. With large engines, such as the 1.60, you may need as much as a tablespoon or so. The little 3 oz. bottles that after-run comes in usually will last 8-10 uses, or so when you have a large engine. We literally flood the engine with oil after a running session to make sure there's plenty of protection.
Sorry, but without seeing the entire engine so that we can see the context, we'd not know why the bearings would go out so fast. The normal preservatives O.S. uses should keep corrosion at bay for several years if the engine's never run. Once it's run, that oil is gone.
We're not familiar with the "Final Run" fuel, so we can't comment on it. It's possible that just not enough after-run oil was put into the engine to give it good corrosion protection, if that's what the problem is. A few drops down the intake is just not enough.
To properly use an after-run product, you need to make sure sufficient oil is put into the engine to make sure all components get a good wetting with the product. With large engines, such as the 1.60, you may need as much as a tablespoon or so. The little 3 oz. bottles that after-run comes in usually will last 8-10 uses, or so when you have a large engine. We literally flood the engine with oil after a running session to make sure there's plenty of protection.
03-26-2003, 11:23 PM
#3
Member
Thread Starter
My Feedback: (4)
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Rowlett,
TX
Posts: 93
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
1.60 FX Bearings
Thank you for the reply.
I should have been more specific on the after run oil application. I would estimate at least 2 tablespoons of the "Ultra Oil" after run oil was used after each of the mentioned sessions (flooding is a good term). The ultra oil is a synthetic oil that is supposed to be OS and YS compatible. Have you ever heard of it, or used it?
The fuel I used (Powermaster 10%) was opened the first time when the bench runs were accomplished. I always keep the fuel containers tightly capped when not in use, but I am wondering if the time that elapsed from bench run to maiden flights might have allowed moisture absorption. I have friends that are running the same fuel in their 1.60's with excellent results, and decided to go with the 10% nitro/18% oil that it has. Any thoughts on this?
The Extra was flown with a balanced APC 18-8W prop. I had read previous posts here on RCU that stated the engine was best if operated in the 8,000 the 8,400 R.P.M. range. The engine tached at around 8,500 peaked with this prop, but was richened down from that. Is it possible that the wide blade 18-8 was loading the engine excessively, even with, or especially with the extra rich setting?
I will be receiving the new bearings for this engine on Friday, and hope to disassemble the engine then. If you are interested, I will let you know what I see when they are removed. Pictures could be attached to another post, if that would help.
I would appreciate any suggestions or comments you might lend concerning my problem. The 1.60 is a great engine from what I have seen, and hopefully this is going to be a one-time problem for me.
Thanks again for your time!
Rex Rutledge
I should have been more specific on the after run oil application. I would estimate at least 2 tablespoons of the "Ultra Oil" after run oil was used after each of the mentioned sessions (flooding is a good term). The ultra oil is a synthetic oil that is supposed to be OS and YS compatible. Have you ever heard of it, or used it?
The fuel I used (Powermaster 10%) was opened the first time when the bench runs were accomplished. I always keep the fuel containers tightly capped when not in use, but I am wondering if the time that elapsed from bench run to maiden flights might have allowed moisture absorption. I have friends that are running the same fuel in their 1.60's with excellent results, and decided to go with the 10% nitro/18% oil that it has. Any thoughts on this?
The Extra was flown with a balanced APC 18-8W prop. I had read previous posts here on RCU that stated the engine was best if operated in the 8,000 the 8,400 R.P.M. range. The engine tached at around 8,500 peaked with this prop, but was richened down from that. Is it possible that the wide blade 18-8 was loading the engine excessively, even with, or especially with the extra rich setting?
I will be receiving the new bearings for this engine on Friday, and hope to disassemble the engine then. If you are interested, I will let you know what I see when they are removed. Pictures could be attached to another post, if that would help.
I would appreciate any suggestions or comments you might lend concerning my problem. The 1.60 is a great engine from what I have seen, and hopefully this is going to be a one-time problem for me.
Thanks again for your time!
Rex Rutledge
04-18-2003, 12:54 PM
#4
Junior Member
My Feedback: (3)
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Parsippany,
NJ
Posts: 26
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
1.60 FX Bearings
I had similar problem with the main bearing in the 160FX. Hobby Services replaced it once and gone bad again after a while. I decided to go with Boca ceramic bearing. It has being working since I put in last year. I just took it out to fly again last weekend after the long winter. the engine ran perfectly. while the ceramic bearing is expensive, I think it is worth it.
04-22-2003, 04:31 AM
#5
My Feedback: (75)
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Santa Rosa,
CA
Posts: 39
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
1.60 FX Bearings
You did not mention "if" you run the engine dry of fuel at the
end of the flying day, THEN put in the after-run oil. Right after.
No matter what you do, eventually new bearings will be
needed.
Ceramic bearings are not really worth the extra cash. The
metal "races" will still rust if the engien is left wet, stored, and
no after-oil was put in.
Ceramic bearings are best for racing engines.
You are lucky if you found out you had a bearing problem
and no engine damage had been done. If a bearing is run, and
it is rusted, and in bad condition, it can easily break up, and run
parts through your engine, and ruin it, in an instant...
I plan on changing bearings at least yearly. I run O.S. 1.40
RX engines in pattern. I treat the bearings very well, and still
I expect only one season out of them.
I buy from Boca Bearings, I usually get the "high speed"
bearings, and not the ceramic.
Hope this has been of some value to you.
Regars, Robert..............
end of the flying day, THEN put in the after-run oil. Right after.
No matter what you do, eventually new bearings will be
needed.
Ceramic bearings are not really worth the extra cash. The
metal "races" will still rust if the engien is left wet, stored, and
no after-oil was put in.
Ceramic bearings are best for racing engines.
You are lucky if you found out you had a bearing problem
and no engine damage had been done. If a bearing is run, and
it is rusted, and in bad condition, it can easily break up, and run
parts through your engine, and ruin it, in an instant...
I plan on changing bearings at least yearly. I run O.S. 1.40
RX engines in pattern. I treat the bearings very well, and still
I expect only one season out of them.
I buy from Boca Bearings, I usually get the "high speed"
bearings, and not the ceramic.
Hope this has been of some value to you.
Regars, Robert..............
04-22-2003, 10:52 AM
#6
Member
Thread Starter
My Feedback: (4)
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Rowlett,
TX
Posts: 93
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
160 FX Bearings
Good point about not clearly stating "if" I run all the fuel out, but yes I do. When the first bearing set was in the engine I ended the runs with Final Run Fuel, then ran all the fuel out, then applied Ultra Oil after run oil.
I have changed the bearings and flown almost a gallon of fuel thru the engine without problems so far. I decided to 86 the Final Run Fuel, and have gone back to Marvel Mystery for after run oil. Keeping my fingers crossed because the engine is just now starting to break-in, and really runs great! The 1.60 flies my Extra very well.
The main bearing that I took out of the engine had substantial rusting, but the prop shaft bearing was fine. The crankshaft counterweight had a few areas of rust, but none on the functional surfaces. I noticed a slight amount of rust/stains on the wrist pin, but found no pitting, so it was re-installed. There was not even a stain on the engine case. I installed new OS bearings, and plan on running them as long as they will. I'll take Mask Pilot and Aerosports recommendations into account when the current set needs to go. I can't help but think that the engine sitting for 2 years before use had something to do with loosing the original bearings, but who can say for sure. I have a N.I.B. OS 1.40RX that's been sitting on the shelf about 6 months now. Hopefully I wont have a similar result with it.
Thanks to all for the input!
Rex Rutledge
I have changed the bearings and flown almost a gallon of fuel thru the engine without problems so far. I decided to 86 the Final Run Fuel, and have gone back to Marvel Mystery for after run oil. Keeping my fingers crossed because the engine is just now starting to break-in, and really runs great! The 1.60 flies my Extra very well.
The main bearing that I took out of the engine had substantial rusting, but the prop shaft bearing was fine. The crankshaft counterweight had a few areas of rust, but none on the functional surfaces. I noticed a slight amount of rust/stains on the wrist pin, but found no pitting, so it was re-installed. There was not even a stain on the engine case. I installed new OS bearings, and plan on running them as long as they will. I'll take Mask Pilot and Aerosports recommendations into account when the current set needs to go. I can't help but think that the engine sitting for 2 years before use had something to do with loosing the original bearings, but who can say for sure. I have a N.I.B. OS 1.40RX that's been sitting on the shelf about 6 months now. Hopefully I wont have a similar result with it.
Thanks to all for the input!
Rex Rutledge
05-30-2003, 02:51 AM
#7
Member
Thread Starter
My Feedback: (4)
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Rowlett,
TX
Posts: 93
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
1.60 FX
Bax,
Thought I might submit a follow up on my previous post.
The bearing problem I had with the engine was obviously annoying, but that is were my problems halted. I changed the bearings, installing new OS bearings. I have since run 3 gallons of Powermaster 10% through the engine. I have to say that the 1.60FX is the best running 2 stroke engine I have flown to date! It required a little adjustment to get the low end set following a generous break-in, but it now has a perfect slow (four stroke like) idle, and the transition is excellent. Several of my friends have commented on the amazing amount of power the engine produces, and I'm still running the engine on the rich side. The single back-flip starts still bring a smile to my face! I don't have a flight count, but I have had no (ZERO) problems with the engine.
Since I changed the bearings, I went back to Marvel Mystery Oil. I 86'd the Ultra Oil and Final Run Fuel. Who knows if the problem was from the after run oil, or the engine sitting unused for 2 years?
Thanks for your input, and if I will definitely recommend the 1.60 and OS Engines to anyone interested. Put me on the satisfied customer list.
Rex Rutledge
Thought I might submit a follow up on my previous post.
The bearing problem I had with the engine was obviously annoying, but that is were my problems halted. I changed the bearings, installing new OS bearings. I have since run 3 gallons of Powermaster 10% through the engine. I have to say that the 1.60FX is the best running 2 stroke engine I have flown to date! It required a little adjustment to get the low end set following a generous break-in, but it now has a perfect slow (four stroke like) idle, and the transition is excellent. Several of my friends have commented on the amazing amount of power the engine produces, and I'm still running the engine on the rich side. The single back-flip starts still bring a smile to my face! I don't have a flight count, but I have had no (ZERO) problems with the engine.
Since I changed the bearings, I went back to Marvel Mystery Oil. I 86'd the Ultra Oil and Final Run Fuel. Who knows if the problem was from the after run oil, or the engine sitting unused for 2 years?
Thanks for your input, and if I will definitely recommend the 1.60 and OS Engines to anyone interested. Put me on the satisfied customer list.
Rex Rutledge
