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  1. #226
    Eman77's Avatar
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    RE: Hyundai vs. Mercedes C230


    ORIGINAL: HJJFFFAA

    ORIGINAL: Foxy


    ORIGINAL: HJJFFFAA

    I'm pretty sure his viewpoint is mostly skewed by the tax on large displacements over there. I've consistently seen that engines that don't have stupidly high volumetric efficiencies get better mileage. For instance, 2009 Viper vs 2009 Honda S2000. EPA rates highway for the Viper at 22mpg and the 2000 at 25mpg where the Viper is making 600HP and the S2000 only ~240HP. There's also the same model year Corvette Z06 which is rated at 24mpg highway and has been reported by some to near 30MPG with a little effort.
    You're compltely right. I'm not objective, I admit it. 2.0 is considered large displacement here. I pay 900 bucks road tax for the privilege of driving a high powered 2.0. I then pay another 900bucks additional tax per year as 'luxury car tax' because anything oer 1.8 is considered a luxury car. It's completely ridiculous. then I hear you talking about 6l cars and I flip out. At least I'm honest.

    But seriously, I hope you guys can get some more efficiency into your engines over the coming years, there is the environment to think about, honestly, I don't mean it in a bad way.
    But the big engines actually get pretty good mileage Come on 22MPG highway and 600HP, show me the Ferrari that does that.
    It is good to see the newer higher powered cars get decent highway mileage. But I've noticed that they always tout the highway MPG, and not city. There's a reason for that - 2013 Camaro SS gets 24 MPG highway, but 16 city.

    MPG obviously depends on your point of view (maybe you don't care, and that's fine). But it's a bit funny seeing that all the bragging is about the highway MPG, when the city rate is lousy.

    Plus seriously - if I had a camaro SS, do you think I'd really just drive around humbly and efficiently all the time, getting max reported MPG? Doubtful. I'd be busy having too much fun, sucking up gas like no tomorrow - which is exactly the point in a car like that.
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  2. #227
    HJJFFFAA's Avatar
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    RE: Hyundai vs. Mercedes C230


    ORIGINAL: Eman77


    ORIGINAL: HJJFFFAA

    ORIGINAL: Foxy


    ORIGINAL: HJJFFFAA

    I'm pretty sure his viewpoint is mostly skewed by the tax on large displacements over there. I've consistently seen that engines that don't have stupidly high volumetric efficiencies get better mileage. For instance, 2009 Viper vs 2009 Honda S2000. EPA rates highway for the Viper at 22mpg and the 2000 at 25mpg where the Viper is making 600HP and the S2000 only ~240HP. There's also the same model year Corvette Z06 which is rated at 24mpg highway and has been reported by some to near 30MPG with a little effort.
    You're compltely right. I'm not objective, I admit it. 2.0 is considered large displacement here. I pay 900 bucks road tax for the privilege of driving a high powered 2.0. I then pay another 900bucks additional tax per year as 'luxury car tax' because anything oer 1.8 is considered a luxury car. It's completely ridiculous. then I hear you talking about 6l cars and I flip out. At least I'm honest.

    But seriously, I hope you guys can get some more efficiency into your engines over the coming years, there is the environment to think about, honestly, I don't mean it in a bad way.
    But the big engines actually get pretty good mileage Come on 22MPG highway and 600HP, show me the Ferrari that does that.
    It is good to see the newer higher powered cars get decent highway mileage. But I've noticed that they always tout the highway MPG, and not city. There's a reason for that - 2013 Camaro SS gets 24 MPG highway, but 16 city.

    MPG obviously depends on your point of view (maybe you don't care, and that's fine). But it's a bit funny seeing that all the bragging is about the highway MPG, when the city rate is lousy.

    Plus seriously - if I had a camaro SS, do you think I'd really just drive around humbly and efficiently all the time, getting max reported MPG? Doubtful. I'd be busy having too much fun, sucking up gas like no tomorrow - which is exactly the point in a car like that.
    I tend to find the EPA ratings on city driving to be horribly off, at least in my experience. Their highway ratings are usually pretty accurate. I'm simply trying to make the point that HP/L does not a good engine make and it certainly doesn't make the car. I don't think anyone buys a 600HP car to drive slowly.

  3. #228
    The Hedgehog's Avatar
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    RE: Hyundai vs. Mercedes C230

    ORIGINAL: Eman77


    It is good to see the newer higher powered cars get decent highway mileage. But I've noticed that they always tout the highway MPG, and not city. There's a reason for that - 2013 Camaro SS gets 24 MPG highway, but 16 city.

    MPG obviously depends on your point of view (maybe you don't care, and that's fine). But it's a bit funny seeing that all the bragging is about the highway MPG, when the city rate is lousy.

    Plus seriously - if I had a camaro SS, do you think I'd really just drive around humbly and efficiently all the time, getting max reported MPG? Doubtful. I'd be busy having too much fun, sucking up gas like no tomorrow - which is exactly the point in a car like that.
    I noticed economy car drivers and drivers that love MPG figures generally state the highway mpg too. Oh my Sentra gets 34 mpg, civic 30 whatever, Corolla etc etc.

    Sometime gearing is geared for highway so it is a nice balance. On my heavy car with the 4.6 DOHC Ford motor only gets maybe 18mpg city but 28 highway because of the overdrive gear, so to me that is awesome, but yeah I see your point and wouldn't claim the car does 28 mpg.

    What's funny about my Infiniti is its about 22 mpg city and 24 highway, I never had a car that was that close between city and highway.

    But I don't hear many Camaro or any fast car drivers for that matter brag about fuel economy anyway.
    What would Chuck Finley do?

  4. #229
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    RE: Hyundai vs. Mercedes C230


    Because highway MPG is hugely determined by the gearing.. that's why a 400hps+ Corvette can get 30mpg+.. super tall 6th gear.. it is not a bad thing..

    For around town driving, there's no getting around physics..



    ORIGINAL: Eman77

    It is good to see the newer higher powered cars get decent highway mileage. But I've noticed that they always tout the highway MPG, and not city. There's a reason for that - 2013 Camaro SS gets 24 MPG highway, but 16 city.

    MPG obviously depends on your point of view (maybe you don't care, and that's fine). But it's a bit funny seeing that all the bragging is about the highway MPG, when the city rate is lousy.

    Plus seriously - if I had a camaro SS, do you think I'd really just drive around humbly and efficiently all the time, getting max reported MPG? Doubtful. I'd be busy having too much fun, sucking up gas like no tomorrow - which is exactly the point in a car like that.
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  5. #230
    Lunchboxer's Avatar
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    RE: Hyundai vs. Mercedes C230


    How about brag about how bad the fuel economy is?

    WOT FTW, yo!!


    ORIGINAL: The Hedgehog

    But I don't hear many Camaro or any fast car drivers for that matter brag about fuel economy anyway.
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  6. #231
    Eman77's Avatar
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    RE: Hyundai vs. Mercedes C230


    ORIGINAL: HJJFFFAA


    ORIGINAL: Eman77


    ORIGINAL: HJJFFFAA

    ORIGINAL: Foxy


    ORIGINAL: HJJFFFAA

    I'm pretty sure his viewpoint is mostly skewed by the tax on large displacements over there. I've consistently seen that engines that don't have stupidly high volumetric efficiencies get better mileage. For instance, 2009 Viper vs 2009 Honda S2000. EPA rates highway for the Viper at 22mpg and the 2000 at 25mpg where the Viper is making 600HP and the S2000 only ~240HP. There's also the same model year Corvette Z06 which is rated at 24mpg highway and has been reported by some to near 30MPG with a little effort.
    You're compltely right. I'm not objective, I admit it. 2.0 is considered large displacement here. I pay 900 bucks road tax for the privilege of driving a high powered 2.0. I then pay another 900bucks additional tax per year as 'luxury car tax' because anything oer 1.8 is considered a luxury car. It's completely ridiculous. then I hear you talking about 6l cars and I flip out. At least I'm honest.

    But seriously, I hope you guys can get some more efficiency into your engines over the coming years, there is the environment to think about, honestly, I don't mean it in a bad way.
    But the big engines actually get pretty good mileage Come on 22MPG highway and 600HP, show me the Ferrari that does that.
    It is good to see the newer higher powered cars get decent highway mileage. But I've noticed that they always tout the highway MPG, and not city. There's a reason for that - 2013 Camaro SS gets 24 MPG highway, but 16 city.

    MPG obviously depends on your point of view (maybe you don't care, and that's fine). But it's a bit funny seeing that all the bragging is about the highway MPG, when the city rate is lousy.

    Plus seriously - if I had a camaro SS, do you think I'd really just drive around humbly and efficiently all the time, getting max reported MPG? Doubtful. I'd be busy having too much fun, sucking up gas like no tomorrow - which is exactly the point in a car like that.
    I tend to find the EPA ratings on city driving to be horribly off, at least in my experience. Their highway ratings are usually pretty accurate. I'm simply trying to make the point that HP/L does not a good engine make and it certainly doesn't make the car. I don't think anyone buys a 600HP car to drive slowly.
    Point made. I guess my point was that I don't see why some car companies are touting the MPG in a 500+ HP vehicle, since that's not really the point in a car like that (which we both agree on). And when they do, they tout the highway aspect, not city (which is notably worse). I guess they're trying to fit in with the "green" trend....which again is silly for a performance vehicle.
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  7. #232
    Lunchboxer's Avatar
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    RE: Hyundai vs. Mercedes C230

    It takes fuel to make horsepower, yo!! Physics FTW!
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  8. #233
    Eman77's Avatar
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    RE: Hyundai vs. Mercedes C230


    ORIGINAL: The Hedgehog

    ORIGINAL: Eman77


    It is good to see the newer higher powered cars get decent highway mileage. But I've noticed that they always tout the highway MPG, and not city. There's a reason for that - 2013 Camaro SS gets 24 MPG highway, but 16 city.

    MPG obviously depends on your point of view (maybe you don't care, and that's fine). But it's a bit funny seeing that all the bragging is about the highway MPG, when the city rate is lousy.

    Plus seriously - if I had a camaro SS, do you think I'd really just drive around humbly and efficiently all the time, getting max reported MPG? Doubtful. I'd be busy having too much fun, sucking up gas like no tomorrow - which is exactly the point in a car like that.
    I noticed economy car drivers and drivers that love MPG figures generally state the highway mpg too. Oh my Sentra gets 34 mpg, civic 30 whatever, Corolla etc etc.

    Sometime gearing is geared for highway so it is a nice balance. On my heavy car with the 4.6 DOHC Ford motor only gets maybe 18mpg city but 28 highway because of the overdrive gear, so to me that is awesome, but yeah I see your point and wouldn't claim the car does 28 mpg.

    What's funny about my Infiniti is its about 22 mpg city and 24 highway, I never had a car that was that close between city and highway.

    But I don't hear many Camaro or any fast car drivers for that matter brag about fuel economy anyway.

    Good point - it's not just the big liter drivers touting highway only, I guess it's everyone (since it sounds better). Perhaps I'm picking on the big engine example right now since we're talking about high output cars, and as soon as someone calls one a gas guzzler, the owner gets (understandably) defensive and starts pointing to highway MPG stats in defense.

    Perhaps I'm rambling too - I'm feeling a bit off this morning. I need more coffee.

    Overall though, I do think that the high output motors are getting better - something that Foxy was talking about. Hedgehog has pointed out before Ford as a prime example of this, the MPG stats on your cars, plus the newer fords are pretty darn good considering the output (think Mustang, for example).

    I mean, my car's not that old - a 2008, and it gets 28-30 MPG day to day (real numbers observed, not just on paper). A few years ago 30 MPG combined city/hwy was pretty good, but now there are far more powerful engines capable of that on the highway.

    Heck, our beast of a minivan gets 28 highway - and that thing's a tank! (Cylinder shutdown FTW). City MPG stinks on it though. Physics, like LB said.
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  9. #234
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    RE: Hyundai vs. Mercedes C230

    LB is right. More fuel, more hp, more acceration,etc... when it comes to highway mpg, after topping out on speed, letting off the gas a little saves a ton of fuel. My dad's Grand Prix GTP 96 with the supercharger gets 26-28mpg (Highway). And My mom's chrysler mini van town and country 98 gets 23mpg average.
    If it works, take it apart and find out why.

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  10. #235
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    RE: Hyundai vs. Mercedes C230

    The thing is, you only need very little horsepower to cruise on freeway.. hence all the design to take advantage of that.. cylinder de-activation, turbo (not boosting at low rpm), taller gears (8-speed automatic box are found on some cars nowadays.. 7-speed manual are on the new 911..), etc.
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  11. #236
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    RE: Hyundai vs. Mercedes C230

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  12. #237
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    RE: Hyundai vs. Mercedes C230

    How I feel sometimes.... (sorry stole LB's idea)

    What would Chuck Finley do?

  13. #238
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    RE: Hyundai vs. Mercedes C230


    ORIGINAL: The Hedgehog

    How I feel sometimes.... (sorry stole LB's idea)

    I agree, that gets tiring. Nobody likes overly self-righteous individuals, or if the MPG thing is used as a defense. (Prius owners take note).

    On the flip side though, I feel it goes the other way too. As soon as someone mentions HP, it turns into a pissing match, and if you don't have the HP, then your car is no good, or you're no good. I think that's pretty childish too.

    I mean, on one hand, if you have a lowly HP car and start talking smack about it, then yeah, someone's gonna beat you down about it with a faster car (since hey, you asked for it). But if a higher HP guy starts ripping on the lower ones just for the hell of it, then I think that's dumb. D-baggery does not have to be linearly proportional to HP - but there are certainly guys where this is true.

    Obviously I'm in the lower HP camp, so my view is skewed, but then I'm not arguing about how fast my car is. We all buy our specific cars for one reason or another.

    Buy what you like. Like what you buy. Don't be a d-bag. That should be everyone's motto.
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  14. #239
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    RE: Hyundai vs. Mercedes C230

    Did you say Prius?!

    You have to drive a certain way to get the EPA value... if you are driving like many Prius owners (using too much throttle.. !), then you won't get nearly as high...

    [youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=badoMjA_rW0[/youtube]
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  15. #240
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    RE: Hyundai vs. Mercedes C230


    ORIGINAL: Eman77
    used as a defense. (Prius owners take note).


    There is no defense for Prius owners lol



    I like the mileage of my Ranger, not sure of the exact figures with the mileage it has on it and such, but 5-speed manual + only 2.5L? I can drive all day and it takes about $40-$45 right now to fill it up.The Alero, a 4k pound car with a 3.4L v6, still only needs $40 a week to make a hour round trip five days in a row. And that Alero is fully loaded for that model, power everything, cruise, traction control, the whole nine yards. I like adding that, as well as find it funny that nobody takes their amenities and "creature comforts" and such into consideration about fuel mileage too. Also, noone seems to think that it is possible these companies do everything the law allows em to "cheat" on MPG ratings, and you may never see those figures in the real world anyways


    Edit: Forgot to mention, when I pull into the scrap yard, the truck when empty comes up as 3300 pounds, so I am guessing its actual curb weight would be about 3100, then, with the driver taken out of the equation
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  16. #241
    Eman77's Avatar
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    RE: Hyundai vs. Mercedes C230

    Fahrt, what MPG do you get though? I have to admit it kind of bugs me when folks go on about how little $$ it takes to fill it per week, or how many weeks they can go on a full tank, but it really doesn't give the reader any clue as to how far you went in that time, how big the tank is, etc. It's all about miles per gallon.

    Don't get me wrong - I know you're not trying an MPG bragging session. But since you brought it up that you're happy with yours, I'm curious what the MPG is you're getting (that is, what makes you happy for your purposes/vehicles).

    Now I know you're not doing this, but the best example I can think of is when folks brag about how they can go 400 miles on a tank of gas. Or dealers that tout that. I mean, the tank could be 25 gallons. LOL
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  17. #242
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    RE: Hyundai vs. Mercedes C230

    I can go 400 miles on a tank of gas...
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  18. #243
    Eman77's Avatar
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    RE: Hyundai vs. Mercedes C230


    ORIGINAL: Lunchboxer

    I can go 400 miles on a tank of gas...
    Yes yes yes, but can you carry a tank of gas on your back for 400 miles? Eh? EH??
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  19. #244
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    RE: Hyundai vs. Mercedes C230

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  20. #245
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    RE: Hyundai vs. Mercedes C230

    Uhhh I had no idea, honestly, when I'd written that. Apparently the Alero gets 19/city 29/highway, 2001 Olds Alero, 3.4 V6, 1105k Mi

    Aaaaaand the Ranger, 1997, gets 19/city 24/highway

    It sure seems like they do a lot better, though, but the numbers don't mean much if you think about it in terms of one car needing $15 in gas daily for one owner, but an identical car only needs $20 a week for the other guy. Obviously one will be happier with the mileage than the other!

    ORIGINAL: Eman77

    Fahrt, what MPG do you get though? I have to admit it kind of bugs me when folks go on about how little $$ it takes to fill it per week, or how many weeks they can go on a full tank, but it really doesn't give the reader any clue as to how far you went in that time, how big the tank is, etc. It's all about miles per gallon.

    Don't get me wrong - I know you're not trying an MPG bragging session. But since you brought it up that you're happy with yours, I'm curious what the MPG is you're getting (that is, what makes you happy for your purposes/vehicles).

    Now I know you're not doing this, but the best example I can think of is when folks brag about how they can go 400 miles on a tank of gas. Or dealers that tout that. I mean, the tank could be 25 gallons. LOL
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  21. #246
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    RE: Hyundai vs. Mercedes C230


    ORIGINAL: Lunchboxer

    I feel sorry for all the non-Lord Of The Rings fans who will never fully appreciate that meme.
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  22. #247
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    RE: Hyundai vs. Mercedes C230

    LOTR FTW for sure! I need to get the extended boxset in BluRay.. (yeah, how's that for off topic!)
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  23. #248
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    RE: Hyundai vs. Mercedes C230

    27mpg...

    And faster than a Veyron..


    heh.

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  24. #249
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    RE: Hyundai vs. Mercedes C230


    ORIGINAL: Eman77

    Fahrt, what MPG do you get though? I have to admit it kind of bugs me when folks go on about how little $$ it takes to fill it per week, or how many weeks they can go on a full tank, but it really doesn't give the reader any clue as to how far you went in that time, how big the tank is, etc. It's all about miles per gallon.

    Don't get me wrong - I know you're not trying an MPG bragging session. But since you brought it up that you're happy with yours, I'm curious what the MPG is you're getting (that is, what makes you happy for your purposes/vehicles).

    Now I know you're not doing this, but the best example I can think of is when folks brag about how they can go 400 miles on a tank of gas. Or dealers that tout that. I mean, the tank could be 25 gallons. LOL
    I've got some real numbers for you. Hyundai Accent: 10.5 gallon tank. I only drive highway. I range an average of 325 miles a tank, so thats just about 31mpg.
    -Aerodynamics and turbos are for people who can't build motors.

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  25. #250
    Lunchboxer's Avatar
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    RE: Hyundai vs. Mercedes C230


    Good thing that there's a lot of definition for the word "fast"!



    ORIGINAL: TheDriftingNarwhal
    And faster than a Veyron..
    LB | WW2 | TLT | TB02 | DF03 | TEgg | F103GT | TXT | Hornet | Frog | Scalpel | Leo 2A6 | Aeromax | WW1 | Clod | CR-01


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