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  1. #201
    cumminspower5.9's Avatar
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    RE: Hyundai vs. Mercedes C230


    ORIGINAL: rgburrill

    It's amazing tis BS has moved all teh way up to the number 3 spot on the home page. []
    I think last week it was first on the list
    -Aerodynamics and turbos are for people who can't build motors.

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  2. #202
    DieHarder's Avatar
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    RE: Hyundai vs. Mercedes C230

    I got 81 here
    If it works, take it apart, and find out why.

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  3. #203
    toolmaker7341's Avatar
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    RE: Hyundai vs. Mercedes C230

    Are you guy's kidding.worried about a couple of econo boxes.What would do with any real horsepower(600-800),probably hurt yourself.
    Mike Burg

  4. #204
    cumminspower5.9's Avatar
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    RE: Hyundai vs. Mercedes C230


    ORIGINAL: toolmaker7341

    Are you guy's kidding.worried about a couple of econo boxes.What would do with any real horsepower(600-800),probably hurt yourself.
    Where in this thread does the mood come off as being "worried"? This would be the same type of conversation with higher HP cars. And I didn't know there was such thing as fake horsepower. Horsepower is horsepower. Some cars have higher than others.
    -Aerodynamics and turbos are for people who can't build motors.

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  5. #205
    Lunchboxer's Avatar
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    RE: Hyundai vs. Mercedes C230

    NOS!
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  6. #206
    Community Moderators Foxy's Avatar
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    RE: Hyundai vs. Mercedes C230

    ORIGINAL: toolmaker7341

    Are you guy's kidding.worried about a couple of econo boxes.What would do with any real horsepower(600-800),probably hurt yourself.
    I used to drive a car that has literally killed hundreds of people, the (majority of) Americans who owned one of the originals, found it so hard to drive, the manufacturer had to make a different model of it for sale in America, I used to drive it on the edge too, it tried to kill me a few times but failed, car had to go when baby daughter came, I can handle my horses thanks.

    What's your daily driver?
    Down with the crew known to pump up the bass...
    We rock the joint at a cool, steady pace.
    Foxy
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  7. #207

    RE: Hyundai vs. Mercedes C230


    ORIGINAL: Foxy

    ORIGINAL: toolmaker7341

    Are you guy's kidding.worried about a couple of econo boxes.What would do with any real horsepower(600-800),probably hurt yourself.
    I used to drive a car that has literally killed hundreds of people, the (majority of) Americans who owned one of the originals, found it so hard to drive, the manufacturer had to make a different model of it for sale in America, I used to drive it on the edge too, it tried to kill me a few times but failed, car had to go when baby daughter came, I can handle my horses thanks.

    What's your daily driver?
    I don't recall ever hearing that an S2000 was considered difficult to drive. Nor have I heard of any special NA model, beyond the larger 2.2L engine...

  8. #208
    The Hedgehog's Avatar
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    RE: Hyundai vs. Mercedes C230

    Foxy have you ever mentioned HP/Liter to anyone in conversation? I never met a s2000 owner that hasn't lol
    What would Chuck Finley do?

  9. #209
    Lunchboxer's Avatar
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    RE: Hyundai vs. Mercedes C230

    I think we all know the real reason why Foxy got rid of his S2000..

    Just messing around, man.. hee.. !
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  10. #210
    Community Moderators Foxy's Avatar
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    RE: Hyundai vs. Mercedes C230

    ORIGINAL: HJJFFFAA


    ORIGINAL: Foxy

    ORIGINAL: toolmaker7341

    Are you guy's kidding.worried about a couple of econo boxes.What would do with any real horsepower(600-800),probably hurt yourself.
    I used to drive a car that has literally killed hundreds of people, the (majority of) Americans who owned one of the originals, found it so hard to drive, the manufacturer had to make a different model of it for sale in America, I used to drive it on the edge too, it tried to kill me a few times but failed, car had to go when baby daughter came, I can handle my horses thanks.

    What's your daily driver?
    I don't recall ever hearing that an S2000 was considered difficult to drive. Nor have I heard of any special NA model, beyond the larger 2.2L engine...
    The F22C was created because Americans couldn't get the hang of driving a car that revved over 5000, fully 1200revs were cut from the top end, castrating the car. Americans were taking the car back saying it was slower than their wives' Jeeps because they were shifting at 3k lol.
    Quote from wikipedia

    The AP2 also included the introduction of a larger version of the F20C for the North American market. Designated F22C1, the engine's stroke was lengthened, increasing its displacement to 2,157 cc (132 cu in). At the same time, the redline was reduced from 8,800 rpm to 8,000 rpm with a cutout at 8,200 rpm, mandated by the longer travel of the pistons. Peak torque increased 6% to 162 lbfยทft (220 Nยทm) at 6,800 rpm while power output was reduced to 237 hp (177 kW) at a lower 7,800 rpm. In conjunction with its introduction of the F22C1, Honda also changed the transmission gear ratios by shortening the first four gears and lengthening the last two. Another change was the inclusion of a clutch release delay valve.[9]
    Honda enthusiasts also purport that traction control was added because of young American kids killing themselves in the AP1, but this may or may not be hyperbole. I didn't make my point very clear anyway, which was...you can hurt yourself in the right car with a lot less than 600hp (please, don't come back with 'yeh you can hurt yourself ina 60hp car, if you crash into a wall, we all know what I'm saying here').

    Hedgehog, make it honda enthusiasts in general, not just s2000 owners.

    Still, I have a heavily biased view point on the muscle cars vs 4 bangers. I'm jealous, I pay 10 dollars a gallon for fuel.
    Down with the crew known to pump up the bass...
    We rock the joint at a cool, steady pace.
    Foxy
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  11. #211
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    RE: Hyundai vs. Mercedes C230

    If that's your problem, convert it to this.. then you can say you drive a Spoon



    SCX10 Hilux - Kyosho DRX - SCX10 6x6 - DF03Ra - M03 - Kyosho Turbo Ultima

  12. #212
    Lunchboxer's Avatar
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    RE: Hyundai vs. Mercedes C230

    Goofy looking top.. stock looks a lot better.. ha!
    LB | WW2 | TLT | TB02 | DF03 | TEgg | F103GT | TXT | Hornet | Frog | Scalpel | Leo 2A6 | Aeromax | WW1 | Clod | CR-01

  13. #213
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    RE: Hyundai vs. Mercedes C230

    Me gusta...

    But in reality there is no Spoon.
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  14. #214
    Nitroaddicted's Avatar
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    RE: Hyundai vs. Mercedes C230


    ORIGINAL: Foxy

    A 2.0 NA ricer with induction kit, manifold, decat, 70mm system and a program (300whp NA at 8000rpm) would take the SS easily and be more reliable. What's more it would still do 25mpg, how's the camaro SS on fuel? I admit it wouldn't look as good (subjective, but the Camaro is a good looking car, no doubt) and it wouldn't make such a nice noise either, but 410hp (no doubt at the fly as well, probably only making 340rwhp) from a 6.2l is shameful. The only thing that saves it is that a brooklyn hobo can afford to own one. Muscle cars...great to look at, but what a waste of fuel.
    The zl1 puts out 580 hp and 556 lb ft of torque. And you have your hp numbers messed up. The v6, models put out 323 hp. The ss model puts out 426 hp and. 420 lb ft of torque. And i can add modifications to the SS as well. So your argument is sort of one sided. And i dont really care about gas mileage.
    What is R/C?

  15. #215
    FahrtAutoRC's Avatar
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    RE: Hyundai vs. Mercedes C230

    Yea....but Foxy BOUGHT his.....

    ORIGINAL: Nitroaddicted


    ORIGINAL: Foxy

    A 2.0 NA ricer with induction kit, manifold, decat, 70mm system and a program (300whp NA at 8000rpm) would take the SS easily and be more reliable. What's more it would still do 25mpg, how's the camaro SS on fuel? I admit it wouldn't look as good (subjective, but the Camaro is a good looking car, no doubt) and it wouldn't make such a nice noise either, but 410hp (no doubt at the fly as well, probably only making 340rwhp) from a 6.2l is shameful. The only thing that saves it is that a brooklyn hobo can afford to own one. Muscle cars...great to look at, but what a waste of fuel.
    The zl1 puts out 580 hp and 556 lb ft of torque. And you have your hp numbers messed up. The v6, models put out 323 hp. The ss model puts out 426 hp and. 420 lb ft of torque. And i can add modifications to the SS as well. So your argument is sort of one sided. And i dont really care about gas mileage.
    Tekno Losi 8ight II Slash 4X4 II HPI Blitz II Associated B4.1 II Losi Mini-T II Custom frame AX10 II Axial G6

  16. #216
    Nitroaddicted's Avatar
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    RE: Hyundai vs. Mercedes C230


    ORIGINAL: FahrtAutoRC

    Yea....but Foxy BOUGHT his.....

    ORIGINAL: Nitroaddicted


    ORIGINAL: Foxy

    A 2.0 NA ricer with induction kit, manifold, decat, 70mm system and a program (300whp NA at 8000rpm) would take the SS easily and be more reliable. What's more it would still do 25mpg, how's the camaro SS on fuel? I admit it wouldn't look as good (subjective, but the Camaro is a good looking car, no doubt) and it wouldn't make such a nice noise either, but 410hp (no doubt at the fly as well, probably only making 340rwhp) from a 6.2l is shameful. The only thing that saves it is that a brooklyn hobo can afford to own one. Muscle cars...great to look at, but what a waste of fuel.
    The zl1 puts out 580 hp and 556 lb ft of torque. And you have your hp numbers messed up. The v6, models put out 323 hp. The ss model puts out 426 hp and. 420 lb ft of torque. And i can add modifications to the SS as well. So your argument is sort of one sided. And i dont really care about gas mileage.
    You really gonna go there?
    What is R/C?

  17. #217
    FahrtAutoRC's Avatar
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    RE: Hyundai vs. Mercedes C230

    Pretty sure I just did hahahaha

    ORIGINAL: Nitroaddicted


    ORIGINAL: FahrtAutoRC

    Yea....but Foxy BOUGHT his.....

    ORIGINAL: Nitroaddicted


    ORIGINAL: Foxy

    A 2.0 NA ricer with induction kit, manifold, decat, 70mm system and a program (300whp NA at 8000rpm) would take the SS easily and be more reliable. What's more it would still do 25mpg, how's the camaro SS on fuel? I admit it wouldn't look as good (subjective, but the Camaro is a good looking car, no doubt) and it wouldn't make such a nice noise either, but 410hp (no doubt at the fly as well, probably only making 340rwhp) from a 6.2l is shameful. The only thing that saves it is that a brooklyn hobo can afford to own one. Muscle cars...great to look at, but what a waste of fuel.
    The zl1 puts out 580 hp and 556 lb ft of torque. And you have your hp numbers messed up. The v6, models put out 323 hp. The ss model puts out 426 hp and. 420 lb ft of torque. And i can add modifications to the SS as well. So your argument is sort of one sided. And i dont really care about gas mileage.
    You really gonna go there?
    Tekno Losi 8ight II Slash 4X4 II HPI Blitz II Associated B4.1 II Losi Mini-T II Custom frame AX10 II Axial G6

  18. #218
    Nitroaddicted's Avatar
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    RE: Hyundai vs. Mercedes C230


    ORIGINAL: FahrtAutoRC

    Pretty sure I just did hahahaha

    ORIGINAL: Nitroaddicted


    ORIGINAL: FahrtAutoRC

    Yea....but Foxy BOUGHT his.....

    ORIGINAL: Nitroaddicted


    ORIGINAL: Foxy

    A 2.0 NA ricer with induction kit, manifold, decat, 70mm system and a program (300whp NA at 8000rpm) would take the SS easily and be more reliable. What's more it would still do 25mpg, how's the camaro SS on fuel? I admit it wouldn't look as good (subjective, but the Camaro is a good looking car, no doubt) and it wouldn't make such a nice noise either, but 410hp (no doubt at the fly as well, probably only making 340rwhp) from a 6.2l is shameful. The only thing that saves it is that a brooklyn hobo can afford to own one. Muscle cars...great to look at, but what a waste of fuel.
    The zl1 puts out 580 hp and 556 lb ft of torque. And you have your hp numbers messed up. The v6, models put out 323 hp. The ss model puts out 426 hp and. 420 lb ft of torque. And i can add modifications to the SS as well. So your argument is sort of one sided. And i dont really care about gas mileage.
    You really gonna go there?
    Well Foxy's argument is biased, still.
    What is R/C?

  19. #219

    RE: Hyundai vs. Mercedes C230

    I'm pretty sure his viewpoint is mostly skewed by the tax on large displacements over there. I've consistently seen that engines that don't have stupidly high volumetric efficiencies get better mileage. For instance, 2009 Viper vs 2009 Honda S2000. EPA rates highway for the Viper at 22mpg and the 2000 at 25mpg where the Viper is making 600HP and the S2000 only ~240HP. There's also the same model year Corvette Z06 which is rated at 24mpg highway and has been reported by some to near 30MPG with a little effort.

  20. #220
    cumminspower5.9's Avatar
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    RE: Hyundai vs. Mercedes C230


    ORIGINAL: Nitroaddicted


    ORIGINAL: Foxy

    A 2.0 NA ricer with induction kit, manifold, decat, 70mm system and a program (300whp NA at 8000rpm) would take the SS easily and be more reliable. What's more it would still do 25mpg, how's the camaro SS on fuel? I admit it wouldn't look as good (subjective, but the Camaro is a good looking car, no doubt) and it wouldn't make such a nice noise either, but 410hp (no doubt at the fly as well, probably only making 340rwhp) from a 6.2l is shameful. The only thing that saves it is that a brooklyn hobo can afford to own one. Muscle cars...great to look at, but what a waste of fuel.
    The zl1 puts out 580 hp and 556 lb ft of torque. And you have your hp numbers messed up. The v6, models put out 323 hp. The ss model puts out 426 hp and. 420 lb ft of torque. And i can add modifications to the SS as well. So your argument is sort of one sided. And i dont really care about gas mileage.
    I'd like to see it hang with the Accent.


    Ready!.... Go!
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  21. #221
    Community Moderators Foxy's Avatar
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    RE: Hyundai vs. Mercedes C230


    ORIGINAL: HJJFFFAA

    I'm pretty sure his viewpoint is mostly skewed by the tax on large displacements over there. I've consistently seen that engines that don't have stupidly high volumetric efficiencies get better mileage. For instance, 2009 Viper vs 2009 Honda S2000. EPA rates highway for the Viper at 22mpg and the 2000 at 25mpg where the Viper is making 600HP and the S2000 only ~240HP. There's also the same model year Corvette Z06 which is rated at 24mpg highway and has been reported by some to near 30MPG with a little effort.
    You're compltely right. I'm not objective, I admit it. 2.0 is considered large displacement here. I pay 900 bucks road tax for the privilege of driving a high powered 2.0. I then pay another 900bucks additional tax per year as 'luxury car tax' because anything oer 1.8 is considered a luxury car. It's completely ridiculous. then I hear you talking about 6l cars and I flip out. At least I'm honest.

    But seriously, I hope you guys can get some more efficiency into your engines over the coming years, there is the environment to think about, honestly, I don't mean it in a bad way.
    Down with the crew known to pump up the bass...
    We rock the joint at a cool, steady pace.
    Foxy
    RCU Community Moderator

  22. #222

    RE: Hyundai vs. Mercedes C230

    ORIGINAL: Foxy


    ORIGINAL: HJJFFFAA

    I'm pretty sure his viewpoint is mostly skewed by the tax on large displacements over there. I've consistently seen that engines that don't have stupidly high volumetric efficiencies get better mileage. For instance, 2009 Viper vs 2009 Honda S2000. EPA rates highway for the Viper at 22mpg and the 2000 at 25mpg where the Viper is making 600HP and the S2000 only ~240HP. There's also the same model year Corvette Z06 which is rated at 24mpg highway and has been reported by some to near 30MPG with a little effort.
    You're compltely right. I'm not objective, I admit it. 2.0 is considered large displacement here. I pay 900 bucks road tax for the privilege of driving a high powered 2.0. I then pay another 900bucks additional tax per year as 'luxury car tax' because anything oer 1.8 is considered a luxury car. It's completely ridiculous. then I hear you talking about 6l cars and I flip out. At least I'm honest.

    But seriously, I hope you guys can get some more efficiency into your engines over the coming years, there is the environment to think about, honestly, I don't mean it in a bad way.
    But the big engines actually get pretty good mileage Come on 22MPG highway and 600HP, show me the Ferrari that does that.

  23. #223
    Lunchboxer's Avatar
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    RE: Hyundai vs. Mercedes C230

    To me, a better performance measure would probably be the HP / weight (and size) of the engine... !

    But obviously there a lot more to it.. how reliable the engine is, etc.

    And there's more to the enjoyment of driving than just performance.. to some, the sound is important.. so someone prefer a big V8, while someone prefer a high-revving smaller engine.. while turbo cars might make more power but the exhaust is very much muffled by the turbo, etc. So it really depends on what's important to you.. !
    LB | WW2 | TLT | TB02 | DF03 | TEgg | F103GT | TXT | Hornet | Frog | Scalpel | Leo 2A6 | Aeromax | WW1 | Clod | CR-01

  24. #224
    Community Moderators Foxy's Avatar
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    RE: Hyundai vs. Mercedes C230

    ORIGINAL: HJJFFFAA

    ORIGINAL: Foxy


    ORIGINAL: HJJFFFAA

    I'm pretty sure his viewpoint is mostly skewed by the tax on large displacements over there. I've consistently seen that engines that don't have stupidly high volumetric efficiencies get better mileage. For instance, 2009 Viper vs 2009 Honda S2000. EPA rates highway for the Viper at 22mpg and the 2000 at 25mpg where the Viper is making 600HP and the S2000 only ~240HP. There's also the same model year Corvette Z06 which is rated at 24mpg highway and has been reported by some to near 30MPG with a little effort.
    You're compltely right. I'm not objective, I admit it. 2.0 is considered large displacement here. I pay 900 bucks road tax for the privilege of driving a high powered 2.0. I then pay another 900bucks additional tax per year as 'luxury car tax' because anything oer 1.8 is considered a luxury car. It's completely ridiculous. then I hear you talking about 6l cars and I flip out. At least I'm honest.

    But seriously, I hope you guys can get some more efficiency into your engines over the coming years, there is the environment to think about, honestly, I don't mean it in a bad way.
    But the big engines actually get pretty good mileage Come on 22MPG highway and 600HP, show me the Ferrari that does that.
    And I could theoretically get 40mpg out of mine in stock form, will it ever happen? No, I drive my car how it was designed to be driven. Fast. Just like nobody who bought a camaro for the 'right' reasons will be so conservative as to get 22mpg. Sod the ferrari, that's an exotic, several steps of economy below even the muscle car, why don't we take the average fuel economy of a european car as a comparison instead? Would it shock you to hear that most people in Europe won't even look at a car that gets less than 55mpg? Smarts and Hyundai Atos and Kia Ceeds and Diesel Citroens are the order of the day here, and they can circumnavigate the world on a single tank almost.

    However, there is a balance, an optimal, and if you ask me, it's between 2 and 3 liters with a turbo. Hell the Nissan GTR is a 3.8 making nearly 600hp with all the limiting turned off. Probably about the same on fuel as the camaro, but I'm just guessing.
    Down with the crew known to pump up the bass...
    We rock the joint at a cool, steady pace.
    Foxy
    RCU Community Moderator

  25. #225
    Lunchboxer's Avatar
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    RE: Hyundai vs. Mercedes C230

    Foxy, do you like electric cars? Do you see that taking over in Europe since the fuel is more expensive?

    A friend of mine has a Chevy Volts.. his said he got 1350 miles or so between the last 2 fuel stops (7.5 gallon).. obviously, it is mostly plugged in.. but do you see more people in Europe buying things like this?
    LB | WW2 | TLT | TB02 | DF03 | TEgg | F103GT | TXT | Hornet | Frog | Scalpel | Leo 2A6 | Aeromax | WW1 | Clod | CR-01


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