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  1. #926
    Community Moderators Foxy's Avatar
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    RE: Let's hear what you have for the 1:1 real car??


    ORIGINAL: Lunchboxer


    I don't know if I'd quite agree Foxy.. because if someon is, as you said, frightened due to understeering (I assume that just means you are going into a turn and you can't turn the car as it is plowing, so you might hit something), that simply means he/she is going too fast (for the car / chassis / suspension / tires).. you back off the throttle and the line tightens.. it is not the fastest way around the turn / the track, but you don't swap end.. and spinning out means you have pretty much lost control and you most likely only can put both feet in (clutch / brake) and lock it up and hope you don't hit anything..

    An inherently oversteering car is less confidence inspiring, because it takes quite a bit of commitment (to plant the rear, you need to be on the throttle, BUT, you might run out of room when tracking out (after the apex), if your line is not perfect). I am certainly not saying that it is ''bad'' (it is faster around the turn / track), but just saying that for most people, it is more dangerous as having the tail stepping out / spin usually scare most drivers.

    You are talking about driver levels -> a pro driver probably don't get frightened for either anyway as they understand how chassis react to their inputs. If the car understeers, they will know how to deal with it. If the car oversteers, they also know how to deal with it. And most likely, they will adjust the setup to suit their driving style once they found out the current setup of the car.



    ORIGINAL: Foxy

    I think we need to qualify driver levels. If my wife for example, had a high power rear wheel drive, she'd probably crash it if she tried to drive it fast. So in that sense, yes, understeer is 'safer'. However, for those who can drive well, understeer is very frightening, for the simple reason that there isn't much you can do about it. All you can do is stab the brake and hope the forward weight shift makes the front tires grip again. At least with oversteer, there are several subtle ways to respond to it. I've never ended up facing the wrong way in the S. It's nearly killed me a few times, but I never lost control of a spin.
    I can only speak for myself. understeer is the devil's work, oversteer is fun.

    So anyway, the deed is done, I drove the Type R to work this morning after taking delivery last night.

    I'm very impressed by the power, especially in second. In fact, it's quicker than the S in second (but not even remotely as quick in 1st and 3rd). The power is more usable, it takes normal gas (not the 100 octane the s2k demanded), it has usable rear seats and a big trunk. Torque steer is pretty bad though lol.

    I really love the car, It may not be as quick or as fun as the S, but it's more usable in more situations. I'll miss the soft top in the summer, but hey, you can't have it all.

    I'll post some pics possibly later after a wash n wax and a bit of T-cut on the headlights and for a scuff on the hood. A friend commented it looks like new.
    Down with the crew known to pump up the bass...
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  2. #927
    Lunchboxer's Avatar
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    RE: Let's hear what you have for the 1:1 real car??

    Nice Foxy.. !

    I am surprised that the Type-R takes regular gas.. I'd expect it to be in similar state of tune as the S2000.. what's the spec on the engine?
    LB | WW2 | TLT | TB02 | DF03 | TEgg | F103GT | TXT | Hornet | Frog | Scalpel | Leo 2A6 | Aeromax | WW1 | Clod | CR-01

  3. #928
    Community Moderators Foxy's Avatar
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    RE: Let's hear what you have for the 1:1 real car??

    ORIGINAL: Lunchboxer

    Nice Foxy.. !

    I am surprised that the Type-R takes regular gas.. I'd expect it to be in similar state of tune as the S2000.. what's the spec on the engine?
    The euro F20C engine found in the S2000 has 11.8:1 compression. The euro K20A variant in the EP3 11:1. The increased compression is enough to realise the benefit from the higher octane (as I expect you know, the octane rating of a fuel has to do with the increase in violence of the explosion in the cylinder with higher compression (though I must confess I don't know how or why it works that way), but more importantly, for some unknown reason, using normal unleaded causes the bottom end to knock slightly, which in turn lights up the check engine light, although not a huge deal, it's a pain in the butt.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honda_K_engine

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honda_F20C_engine

    Down with the crew known to pump up the bass...
    We rock the joint at a cool, steady pace.
    Foxy
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  4. #929
    Lunchboxer's Avatar
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    RE: Let's hear what you have for the 1:1 real car??

    So it makes about 215hps? That's still very respectable.. (compared to the S2000's 240hps or so)

    Yeah, the higher compression engine typically needs higher octane gas as it is harder to ignite the higher octane gas.. (to prevent knocking..)
    LB | WW2 | TLT | TB02 | DF03 | TEgg | F103GT | TXT | Hornet | Frog | Scalpel | Leo 2A6 | Aeromax | WW1 | Clod | CR-01

  5. #930
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    RE: Let's hear what you have for the 1:1 real car??

    I don't know if it's a tune or what but the American spec K series requires higher octane fuel
    What would Chuck Finley do?

  6. #931
    Community Moderators Foxy's Avatar
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    RE: Let's hear what you have for the 1:1 real car??


    ORIGINAL: Lunchboxer

    So it makes about 215hps? That's still very respectable.. (compared to the S2000's 240hps or so)

    Yeah, the higher compression engine typically needs higher octane gas as it is harder to ignite the higher octane gas.. (to prevent knocking..)
    The actual engine edition of the EDM type R isn't mentioned on wiki. It's one of the 197hp versions, but they are known to make fractionally more than that usually, around 200. The S2k is also about 80 kilos lighter, but the Civic does 'feel' very fast, as the K has much better low end torque than the F.
    Down with the crew known to pump up the bass...
    We rock the joint at a cool, steady pace.
    Foxy
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  7. #932
    Lunchboxer's Avatar
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    RE: Let's hear what you have for the 1:1 real car??

    Does it still redline at 8k rpm? Or?
    LB | WW2 | TLT | TB02 | DF03 | TEgg | F103GT | TXT | Hornet | Frog | Scalpel | Leo 2A6 | Aeromax | WW1 | Clod | CR-01

  8. #933
    Ttam Says Blarg's Avatar
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    RE: Let's hear what you have for the 1:1 real car??


    ORIGINAL: Foxy


    ORIGINAL: Lunchboxer

    So it makes about 215hps? That's still very respectable.. (compared to the S2000's 240hps or so)

    Yeah, the higher compression engine typically needs higher octane gas as it is harder to ignite the higher octane gas.. (to prevent knocking..)
    The actual engine edition of the EDM type R isn't mentioned on wiki. It's one of the 197hp versions, but they are known to make fractionally more than that usually, around 200. The S2k is also about 80 kilos lighter, but the Civic does 'feel' very fast, as the K has much better low end torque than the F.
    I got to drive a s2k the other day. Crazy little car. Had me smiling.
    "Insanity is doing the same thing, over and over again, but expecting different results."
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  9. #934
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    RE: Let's hear what you have for the 1:1 real car??

    oh man! the new viper is tasty!!! they broght back the smooth, flowing, exaggerated curves and squished look while updating the front-end for better down-force, VERY 90's look except for the new dart-like taillights and flattened nose.

    good job SRT.

    though i do find it at least a little lazy, but they listened and brought back those sexy curves, yes with the stability control but it is defeatible, also kept that giant engine and added yet ANOTHER 42hp JEEZUS crimany

    it will be mine... oh yes... it will be mine...[&:]
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  10. #935
    Community Moderators Foxy's Avatar
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    RE: Let's hear what you have for the 1:1 real car??


    ORIGINAL: Lunchboxer

    Does it still redline at 8k rpm? Or?
    It'll redline wherever you want if you reconfigure the fuel cutoff, lol. Seriously though a lot of people rev them to 8.9k having reconfigured the fuel cutoff, I think 8.2k is the regular limit. Of course, the F20 in the S revved to 9.2 so there's still some difference. Once again people with s2000s often reconfigure the fuel cutoff to rev to 10k. Nuts.

    Was out driving it a bit last night, and can report that this is one seriously fast car. It really is. Much faster than I expected. 0-60 in 6.1 (only half a second slower than the S, and as I mentioned, because it has a bit more low down, it 'feels' faster, especially in 2nd).

    I'm really really happy with it, its a real Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde. Normal hatch until you put your foot down, then all hell breaks loose. I'll get some video of a quick run soon, maybe after I change the exhaust so the vid has a worthwhile soundtrack. I'm thinking spoon N1. If you want to hear it, just go to youtube and type "ep3 spoon n1".
    Down with the crew known to pump up the bass...
    We rock the joint at a cool, steady pace.
    Foxy
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  11. #936
    Lunchboxer's Avatar
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    RE: Let's hear what you have for the 1:1 real car??

    I was asking about the factory setting on the red limiter.. obviously, like you said, people can do whatever they want if they want to modify it.. 8k rpm is still plenty high.. it is in similar state of tune compared to the 2006 to 2011 US spec Civic Si engine.. (197hps from a 2.0L) The redline on that is 8k rpm and 8.2K rpm is the fuel cut-off..

    LOL, 10k fuel cut off would be pretty wild for sure.. ha ha.. feel like a motorcycle.. !
    LB | WW2 | TLT | TB02 | DF03 | TEgg | F103GT | TXT | Hornet | Frog | Scalpel | Leo 2A6 | Aeromax | WW1 | Clod | CR-01

  12. #937
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    RE: Let's hear what you have for the 1:1 real car??



    Yea it would! 10k rpm is insane. I got scared when my hyundai accent hit 7200 rpm. starts redlining at 7k. thats was scary lol. she took it though haha

    -Aerodynamics and turbos are for people who can't build motors.

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  13. #938
    Lunchboxer's Avatar
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    RE: Let's hear what you have for the 1:1 real car??

    Really? Accent has a redline of 7k rpm? That's quite high, really..
    LB | WW2 | TLT | TB02 | DF03 | TEgg | F103GT | TXT | Hornet | Frog | Scalpel | Leo 2A6 | Aeromax | WW1 | Clod | CR-01

  14. #939
    Community Moderators Foxy's Avatar
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    RE: Let's hear what you have for the 1:1 real car??


    ORIGINAL: Lunchboxer

    I was asking about the factory setting on the red limiter.. obviously, like you said, people can do whatever they want if they want to modify it.. 8k rpm is still plenty high.. it is in similar state of tune compared to the 2006 to 2011 US spec Civic Si engine.. (197hps from a 2.0L) The redline on that is 8k rpm and 8.2K rpm is the fuel cut-off..

    LOL, 10k fuel cut off would be pretty wild for sure.. ha ha.. feel like a motorcycle.. !
    Yeh, the Si hatch is basically the same as my car, with some minor differences.
    Down with the crew known to pump up the bass...
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  15. #940
    cumminspower5.9's Avatar
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    RE: Let's hear what you have for the 1:1 real car??

    I believe so. Im not 100% certain tho. Remember its the racing engine: 1.6L 16 valve DOHC with the K&N filter and Bosch plugs lol. My lunch break is at noon, ill check then.
    -Aerodynamics and turbos are for people who can't build motors.

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  16. #941
    Lunchboxer's Avatar
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    RE: Let's hear what you have for the 1:1 real car??

    So any plan for mod for the car? (other than the exhaust you mentioned) Do the police there crack down on mods and such?
    LB | WW2 | TLT | TB02 | DF03 | TEgg | F103GT | TXT | Hornet | Frog | Scalpel | Leo 2A6 | Aeromax | WW1 | Clod | CR-01

  17. #942
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    RE: Let's hear what you have for the 1:1 real car??

    Ok so i've got it now. on my hyundai accent, red line starts at 6500 rpm and goes up until 8k rpm
    -Aerodynamics and turbos are for people who can't build motors.

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  18. #943
    Lunchboxer's Avatar
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    RE: Let's hear what you have for the 1:1 real car??

    6.5k rpm sounds more reasonable.. !
    LB | WW2 | TLT | TB02 | DF03 | TEgg | F103GT | TXT | Hornet | Frog | Scalpel | Leo 2A6 | Aeromax | WW1 | Clod | CR-01

  19. #944
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    RE: Let's hear what you have for the 1:1 real car??

    The miata had a redline of 7000rpm to 8000rpm. it was more than happy to hit 8000rpm, and it didnt sound like a fart or rice-mobile, it had some gruffness to it

    high rpm is only useful if you still have some torque left, you run out of torque, your doing little more than making noise, the vet gets pissy after 6200rpm.
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  20. #945
    cumminspower5.9's Avatar
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    RE: Let's hear what you have for the 1:1 real car??

    Yea my torque runs off a little after 5k rpm. although you can feel the torque when it really kicks in around 4k rpm. other than just making noise, the 16v DOHC sucks down gas pretty quick for a 4 banger lol
    -Aerodynamics and turbos are for people who can't build motors.

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  21. #946
    Lunchboxer's Avatar
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    RE: Let's hear what you have for the 1:1 real car??

    VTEC just kicked in yo!
    LB | WW2 | TLT | TB02 | DF03 | TEgg | F103GT | TXT | Hornet | Frog | Scalpel | Leo 2A6 | Aeromax | WW1 | Clod | CR-01

  22. #947
    cumminspower5.9's Avatar
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    RE: Let's hear what you have for the 1:1 real car??


    ORIGINAL: Lunchboxer

    VTEC just kicked in yo!
    I was going to say that but i dont have a V-TEC sticker. If i did i would get like what, +5hp?? lol
    -Aerodynamics and turbos are for people who can't build motors.

    Ofna LX2e-4s
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  23. #948

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    RE: Let's hear what you have for the 1:1 real car??

    I liked the s2000 and the bmw z4.. untill I drove one of them... Didn't get in the S2000 though...as I assumed it was like the civic..
    They are not made for the 6 feet + person...
    I couldn't even do any fancy pedal shifting in the bmw roadster....

    Had my honda's (Preludes, Civics) and would rather go with more muscle for a sports car...
    and a whole lota more room... Vette, Challenger or other...

    For a daily Driver in MN I would rather go with a Mitsubishi Evo.
    The Subaru looks sexy.. but prefer the evo....
    I can fit in that one....(not a fat guy either...just no room to move in the other ones)


    Even with all that ... With the increase in fines and all the other BS that goes with it....
    Driving sports cars is great untill EVERYONE and there brother thinks they are a Police officer, and you
    realize none of that power goes anywhere anymore....

    If I had a Track to go to on wk ends I would be more open to it...but Like that will happen in Minnesota anytime soon..?

    I guess you could call me Bitter, and scorned....but going fast has got too much of a PITA for me...
    And I have yet to have a Ticket in 8years.... so I am not some snot nose DS running around the neighborhood WOT
    and jacking up the asphalt...

    If you can\'\'\'\'t dazzle em with brilliance,baffle em with BS

  24. #949
    The Hedgehog's Avatar
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    RE: Let's hear what you have for the 1:1 real car??


    ORIGINAL: kochj


    I guess you could call me Bitter, and scorned....but going fast has got too much of a PITA for me...
    And I have yet to have a Ticket in 8years.... so I am not some snot nose DS running around the neighborhood WOT
    and jacking up the asphalt...
    Post pics of the Evo
    What would Chuck Finley do?

  25. #950

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    RE: Let's hear what you have for the 1:1 real car??

    Well i guess im a little late to this thread.But i have a 95 jeep yj wrangler with 31's 4 banger lol,a 90 eclipse gs turbo with a few lil hop ups and megan racing lowering springs and kyb gr2 struts,77 ford f-150 with a 400m c6 trans old but good and 2 project car's a 78 pontiac formula with a 400 and th400 trans ,72 alfa romeo spider.and one bike 92 honda cb750 nighthawk.


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