SAVAGEJIM

Okay, I have seen guys say that Ford no longer has Mustang offered in a Cobra trim, I have also heard that Ford abolished their SVT.
However, SVT still exists, according to a Ford dealer I just talked to.
Also, even though a Cobra is not a Mustang trim offered, see this link
http://bp2.forddirect.fordvehicles.c...#page=/Models/

The top trim, the 2011 "Shelby" GT500, has Cobra ions all over it. See these links
http://www.fordvehicles.com/cars/mustang/
http://www.automobilemag.com/auto_sh.../photo_07.html
Even the

Guys have dared to yell at me and say the "Shelby" GT500 is NOT a cobra nor is it from SVT.
http://northamericantuning.com/catal...ehlso8qm540qt2

From what I understand, the "Shelby" GT500 does not even come out of Shelby's workshops/mod shops.
I think (I stress "I think" because I am not sure) that Ford only puts the "Shelby" label on the GT500 trim under permission and official license from Shelby, the mod-shop.

To put this to rest, at least in my mind, can any of you Ford fans let me in on the scoop about Shelby, the Cobra badges, and why the "Cobra" name was changed to "Shelby GT500"?

J.D.T

SVT is alive and well, as far as the shelby cars go its a little conveluted, the GT 500s are made at the flat rock michigan plant ford plant by a special group called auto alliance, the Supersnakes were GT 500s which were sent to Shelby American after assembly by ford, the Shebly GTs (aka CSGT-but not to be confused with the CS california special-paint and interior package mustangs) as well as the GT 350 and GT 350 H were production mustangs sent to Shelby American for modification and resale. The cobra died when ford got back in bed with Carroll, they got 25 years to use it again before its free game, GM stole the Cyclone name from them so you can bet they sure won't make that mistake again. Carroll has said 2011 MIGHT be the last year they modify cars at his place so in the future look for more exclusive dealers to install his parts(he feels he can make more on parts only and not mess with whole cars) I suspect his tune will change once they sell about 220,000 of these 2011 mustangs LOL.

J.D.T

forgot about the 100 or so Don Prudome Specials, they were drag racers 750 hp on pump gas 800 hp on race gas, modified by shelby american

[email protected]

they mix it up. they had a cobra r back in the day, they had the bullit gt, saleen you get my point. so now top trim is the gt500 they also have the gt500 kr and the supersnake does come from shelby as the other upper trim levels in shelby mods. just a way to suck more money. the 5.0 engine is coming back and i hope the horse stays on the car. remember the fox body never had the running horse until later i think 1990 or 91. the mustang is nice so it the camaro like them both. its nice to see american pony cars coming back. every one wins when this fight/battle starts. I never heard anything about svt or svo like the new f150 raptor is a svo truck. so they are here for some time I'm sure.

SAVAGEJIM

Thanks for the info, at least I can say "Look at the damn badge! the Cobra might not live on in name, but it lives on in spirit even though it is called GT500 this year!"

I am impressed with the 2011 5.0L. DOHC with phased cam timing to vary the valve overlap: which virtually eliminates the "lop, lop, lop," at low RPMs, optimizes fuel consumption by reducing overscavaneging, which in turn not only increases power throughout the RPM range, (all the way to 700RPM redline), but it also increases fuel economy by a tad. I believe the numbers are 16/25 MPG city/hwy, where 2010 engines are a tad worse, even from a 4.6L.

[email protected]

the new v6 mustang engine sports 305hp but the power is pointless because it all comes in way up in rpm band. so unless its a manual its a turd. have not had any time with the new 5.0 engine. will see in time. this will be in trucks i'm sure or a least i hope because the 4.6 is a week engine for trucks the 5.4 is a big pig. the new timing sys is very nice and the mustang is the only 400hp engine that wont get hit with the gas guzzler tax so thats good. In all honesty I so board of the gm engine cant get over people pay 65k for a vette with push rod v8's. hey but they get it done just its like stone age stuff.

The_Shark

well a high RPM power-band engine in a mustang doesnt have the spirit of the mustang's classic low end grunt, but i imagine its pretty good on the highway.

Lunchboxer

What's not to like about high rpm? It is the only way to get more power w/o using forced induction or increasing the displacement.. I think that's a good way to keep the V6 competitive.. not a bad thing.. !

The_Shark

the thing is, the mustang is a muscle car, most want low end grunt. high rpm is good for smaller/lighter sports cars.

heck, my dakota used to spin the tires on demand and just pin you to your seat, my miata, although faster, does not care how much gas your giving it, if its not past 4krpm, your not going anywhere, its funny, it tugs harder the faster you go.

any info on the 5.0? DOHC VVT direct injection ect. im too tired to look.

[email protected]

nothing is wrong wih high rpm engines. just its a turd off the line. you can have the best of boh worlds but like you said you need a bigger displacement. i have a 351 cleveland I'm some day going to build. it needs rpm's to make its power. I like it think its fine but even at low rpm range it will put you back in the seat when the hammer comes down.

Lunchboxer

We were talking about the V6 model. If one cares about burning rubber, he or she should get the GT! To get 305hp out of that V6 isn't bad. If they have to use high rpm, so be it!

I think the new Mustang is pretty sweet! Got to go with the 5.0, though!

larryf333

My Feedback: (2)

I thought the Cobra icon belonged to Shelby anyway. Coming from the Shelby Cobras they used to produce. I believe the Cobras just denote that the new one's a Shelby, not that it's a Ford Mustang Cobra.

[email protected]

cobra was a model trim a step up from the gt. came with 4v over head cams. the fox body cobra had the gt40 heads and shorty headers with gt40 intake system. dam I miss them 302 engines they had a great rumble.

SAVAGEJIM

According to Ford's Mustang brochures, the three availble 2011 engine specs are:

V6 3.7L:
305 HP
280 ft-lbf torque
19/31 MPG EPA on manual tranny

V8 5.0L:
412 HP
390 ft-lbs torque
EPA: (I cannot remember)

V8 5.4L w/ supercharger
540 HP
510 ft-lbs torque
EPA: (I cannot remember)

What is missing from these numbers is where in the HP & torque bands do these peak numbers occur?
As mentioned above, 510ft-lbf at 3000RPM but only 200ft-lbf everywhere else is useless, especially if the torque curve looks like a spike instead of a nice round dome.

Does anyone know if Ford published dyno charts for these peak HP & torque numbers?
Peak numbers are useless to me unless the engine can keep very close to the peak number throughout much of the total RPM bandwidth.
Of course, I would prefer the torque output to remain very close to the peak number throughout the entire RPm bandwidth all the way to redline and above

[email protected]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eQjAeE0fXkk new 5.0 on dyno. no numbers but sounds like it pulls all the way up to 6900rpm http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rf3Bz...eature=channel

SAVAGEJIM

Yeah, those engines were turning some RPMs!

Ford has the new 5.0 L redline published to be at 7000RPM, which is damn high for a V8 of 300ci and over.

I think its stroke of about 92mm does help; ring flutter is avoided.

[email protected]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ydyki...eature=channel check this out on the pull got 435hp.

SAVAGEJIM

Thats impressive! And measured at the rear wheels too!
I would love to read their dyno chart on that run.

I found their article:

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/post...104&toStyle=tm

And great displacement trivia in here too:
The classic 302 pushrod was not a true 5.0L, its displacement of 4942cc = 4.942 Liters, which by liter displacement convention, needs to be rounded down to 4.9L
The 2011 302 (codename "Coyote" during development) displaces just a tad more CC's, 4951cc = 4.951 Liter, which by convention, IS rounded up to 5.0L


I am impressed that just by switching to K&N paper filters, the dyno test they did was able to pull out over a dozen more BHP and push the torque above a true 400 ft-lbf!

SAVAGEJIM

For the 2011 Wile E Coyote engine, I found this U-toob vid in which there is an actual dyno chart posted.
Granted, the runs were done at the rear wheels and in 4th & 5th gears, but over 350 BHP and pushing towards 350 ft-lbf, that is damn impressive!

Note: In the 2011 Mustang GT, the 5th gear is the 1:1 gear in the 6speed tranny. By convention, when running a dyno run at the rear wheel, you have to have the car in the 1:1 gear. Any lower gear and you will skew the torque output higher, and also therefore the BHP oputput as well. Go into overdive (6th gear in the 2011 GT) and you will skew the torque output lower.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lIZNEz9b-EI[/youtube]

[email protected]

the thing i really like about this engine is that its all motor no supercharger. the 4.6 needs the supercharger to make good numbers. i was reading blogs that are saying this engine supercharged will hit 600hp with no problem. i hope they put this engine in the f150 cause thats what im waiting for before i buy a new truck.

J.D.T

2011 gt wheel dyno chart

J.D.T

the 2011 gt 500, torque monster

J.D.T

I still have not seen anything for the 3.7 v 6 yet but it won't be long, Paxton/Vortech have been supplied a test mule so a charger is coming soon for the six poppers.

SAVAGEJIM

I would love to see what the new 3.7 V6 can do with upgrades. If it pumps out more than 300 HP in stock form, I know you can pull more out of it.

Interstingly, this 2011 V6 produces as much advertised HP as the 4.6 DOHC 1996 Cobra engine did over 14 yrs ago. Though that 1996 4.6L Dohc produced as much torque as it HP (ar almost as much, more than 300 ft-lbf at least), I am sure the 2011 3.7L V6 has more potential in it too.

SAVAGEJIM

I don't think you have much to fear, because I have been reading way too many rumors that indicate the Coyote will find its way into half ton trucks & SUVs.
When? I have no clue. But F150, E150, Expedition will see Coyotes under the hood sooner or later.

Moreover, I am sure that Ford will coax more HP out of the Coyote with each release season and model year; Ford did not invest the millions in development to only keep this engine around for only a few years if it did not have potential for much more performance improvements. They really intend it to carry on the 5.0 badge for a long time, otherwise, I doubt that they would not have bothered to bring back the beloved badge remembered by so many Mustang fans of old.
Hopefully the new 5.0 will remain around as long as the classic push rod 302 from 16yrs ago has been around.