Handsfam

Yesterday I was flying my slow stick a a local park when I was told to stop by a policeman.

Being a law-abiding citizen, I complied.

A call to the local parks department revealed that radio controlled flying is prohibited in public parks.

Now I can understand glow airplanes being outlawed, but a "park flyer"?!!

So I have a call in to the parks comissioner to discuss a change in the rules.

Any suggestions on how should I approach this to increase my chance of success?
Any resources I should consult in this process?
Any experience with this kind of thing?

Thanks.

pioneer863

I Don’t think there is anything you can do? Try flying at Lakeville HS? I got this from the DNR regarding parks



It shall be unlawful for any person to fly or use any fuel or electric powered model aircraft, boat, car or rocket, or like-powered toy or model without written authorization from the Director. This section shall not apply to models or toys which are powered by hand-wound springs, rubber, or other elastic materials, or by inertial flywheels.

Pioneer863
Minneapolis MN

bojangle

You won't get anywhere trying to get them to change the rules. A better approach might be for an organized group of flyers to meet with the officials, see if there are alternate areas that could be used.

These "rules" are spreading across the country, and I predict that one day the "Park Flyers", "ballpark flyers", "street flyers" etc. will be outlawed in all public facilities, due to the increase in liability.

BO

RC Sumo

no electric slow flying parkflyers but let's go ahead and allow any 6 year old to crank up an AirHog and let it fly uncontrolled!!!

LTSharpe

I can see their reasoning. Electric planes can be dangerous. Personally I wouldn't want to get hit with some of these high performance plane's props... They see these things as a public nuisance like unleashed dogs or something. I've got several large horse pastures to fly in but I still manage to crash into, fences or nearby walnut trees. Oh and yes, I finally crashed into a pile of horse crap the other day... It was gonna happen eventually..plane was 'sterilized' and up and at em again Only to die a horrible death a couple days later..... crunch.

Scar

My Feedback: (3)

Please help me understand what you're going to discuss.

If you are going to discuss having an area delegated for flying, with no flying allowed outside the area (and no pedestrians inside the area) then I think you're on the right track. (Don't know that you'll get results, but I think that's the proper approach.)

If you are thinking the park should cancel the rule, and allow flyers and pedestrians in a flying area simultaneously.... well, I hope you get no results. Planes and people don't mix. Radios fail. Thumbs get out of synch. Pilots lose orientation, or neglect to maintain speed above stall speed.

Dave Olson

evil_nathan

I've been lucky so far....

I've had no complaints flying at the local park early in the morning - like between 6:30am and 7:30am.

The park is empty and the wind is dead calm at that hour.

If anything - local early-morning joggers often stop by to chat about the plane and how well it runs being an electric and all. The plane flies almost silently at a medium altitude (above 30 feet) and they actually enjoy watching it fly around for a bit.

However, I agree that planes and people don't mix!

Unfortunately - my nearest 'dedicated' flying field is half an hour away - and that's too far for me to drive for a quick fly before/after work.

A movement to get local councils to designate flying areas is a good idea - but any area that is a decent size is almost always gonna be a park already - or privately owned land.



Nathan.

foreverNight

I once got kicked out of a public sports complex here in town for flying my firebird outlaw! In the middle of this huge field not a person in sight and some chump comes out of nowhere riding a golf cart telling me to bring it down. I was like "ok" i was really high up on a hot day i must have been in a thermal because i couldnt bring it down right away (no elevator control).
Anyway, he starts getting impatient and I'm trying to explain to him that I'm having trouble so he gets on his radio and starts calling his Sup or someone. so i had to try a death spiral. It came down very very hard. Wing folded in half and snapped the motor boom.

BuzzBomber

My Feedback: (4)

If I see a sign that says I can't fly, I won't fly. Fortunately, most schoolyards and parks have no POSTED regs. around here, so I'm free to do what I want, and the only police attention I've garnered while flying was to ask the usual "how much, how high, how hard?" type of questions. My father, OTOH, routinely flys his GWS zero at a ballfield with "NO MODEL AIRPLANES OR ROCKETS" among the litany of rules posted on the dugouts. However, even there, he has flown while police and park personnel were present, to date without confrontation. I can only hope it's because he has the common sense not to fly when anyone else is on the field, and its not heavily used. To my father's credit, he didn't see the sign 'till I pointed it out, at which he replied, "I wish you hadn't told me that...".

Handsfam

Here's an update:

I spoke with the city parks commisioner and he seemed to be willing to look at the issue as long as it could be done safely and without complex enforcement procedures. (I was pleasantly surprised.)

I am now seeking advise on how this can be structured to meet the two criteria above.

Question: Is there anywhere that this has been successfully done? If there is a model we could adopt here then we wouldn't be reinventing the wheel.

Just to clarify: we are intrested only in SMALL park flyers the size of say, a Slow Stick. While it is true that airplanes and people don't mix (per Scars post) my common sense tells me that airplane below a certain size present little risk to others. But I could be wrong.

RC Sumo

I must say that it is nice to see flyers in here trying to work with their respective officals to try to reach a comprimise. I was a little facetious in my previous post. I really feel lucky about where I fly reading about some of the trials and tribulations some of you have to go through. I fly mainly @ a school in the late evening. We do get the occasional jogger on the track. When they do jog...I tend to stay high and try not to bother them. My experience has been that they rather enjoy watching as they jog...appears I should count my blessings. Good luck to you all in your dealings with authorities. We have been trying to get dedicated field in our area for gas and electric planes for the local club without results. We'll keep trying though!

Unprof

Great job! I fly with a group that has formed a pretty amicable relationship with the park guys but in an interesting way. We noticed that the number of dogs in the park is very high and so found a biochemist friend at the local university where I teach to do a small study of the water and soil. His findings showed that the dogs were poisoning the ground and the water flowing underneath. When the parks guys found this out, they were quick to accommodate our requests. This is in comparison to the RC guys who are not responsible for any damage to the park. We even police the area by making sure that we pick up any trash!


Not to sound to Machiavellian here, but one thing to keep in mind is that the court of public opinion for the parks guys is their achilles heel. Their jobs are hard won and even a little bit of bad press and they run scared. Keep up the good work.

RC Sumo

where in Reno do you fly? We have a few places to fly down here in Grass Valley...you should email if you are in the area....

Unprof

RcSumo,

We fly in Ranch San Rafael park, right next to the University of Nevada. There are about 30+ guys who fly there most every weekend. People mostly fly Zagis, but there are a variety of planes to see. Anyway, come up and visit. It's a great site.
Unprof

FlybyPDX

My Feedback: (2)

What about a non powered glyder? Whould that be prohibited?

dc9mech

It is frustrating to hear that park flyers are prohibited in the parks where I live.

I am a complete newby to rc flying, I was with Handsfam when we got busted by the police for flying a slow stick in the park.

I am at a point where I am ready to spend about $300 to get into an entry level electric.

It would be a shame to buy the equipment and then have no place to fly it.

Driving to a club field for a quick 10 minute fix is not the answer.

Someone mentioned flying in the school yards when no one is there, that sounds good but we
were told to leave the park when no one was there.

What are some other options?

LTSharpe

Just a comment on your 300 dollar figure. You can get an entry level plane for as little as 50 to 80 dollars. Planes in that class would be the tigershark, yellow bee, outlaw, firebird II ST etc For 130 you can get an aerobird challenger or thawk if you want aerobatics. Predator will do it to but it's about 150, thawk may be 150 now don't know. RC Electric flying is cheap compared to the rest of the rC world. The planes are practically disposable. Batteries are usually 15 to 18 dollars. Cheap.

bojangle

I really have to count my blessings when I read posts like these. As a rancher, I have a few thousand acres to fly in....yet I still managed to sift my plane through a 4 strand barbed wire fence.

Here is something to think about. Say your "small" plane weighs 16 ounces, typical for an electric. Ok, go out to your shop, pick up a 16 ounce hammer and smack yourself in the face with it, even a gentle tap will cause some pain. Compound that with the very sharp edges of a prop spinning about 5,000 rpm.

Years ago, I had a young boy run right into the path of my 5 pound nitro plane during a landing. It knocked him down. I was flying in a "deserted" park. Never again. I was sweating even though I had AMA insurance.

I sincerely wish all city dwellers luck in finding and keeping flying areas. It will take a lot of
P.R. and education.

BO

mclintock

My Feedback: (3)

I used to fly control line cox planes without being bothered in industrial parks after hours.. (the electric motor was not invented yet). The only encounter with any sort of law was the private rental cop parking lot security coming to watch and laughing as the pt19 crashed into bits, then got rubber-banded back together in no time. I have yet to fly anything since I moved to boston, but I'm scheming on some industrial zones north of here..
...sometimes I wish I still lived in nevada..

I was in a huge city park today, thinking what a great place to fly 1/2a, but knowing I'd promptly be stoned to death by people, and my plane eaten by dogs who should be on leash, when a maint guy fired up a huge chain saw and made all the kids run away. Sure- gas chain saws are fine, but 1/2a, nevah!!

enrique1123

Gentleman, all these new rules and laws that were not around a few years ago have been written and put into the law books because of 2 simple phrases. Liability and Litigation. A citizen can sue his or her local goverment for any harm caused to his/her person that happenned while using a park or facility that is maintained by the local goverment. So if one of us were to fly a little 1 pound airplane going 30 mph into someone's leg and maybe break the skin(it has happened)that person can turn around and sue us or the city or the county, even without merit but the cost alone to fight such litigation is enough to make our local official worry about the wht if's. This is something that we have all done to ourselves. The solution is now to go the city hall meetings and express your need for a recreation area designated for remote control airplanes. If you present your local authrities with a plan, site or compromise of some sort I am sure they will lesten to you. They have in the past, after all the public areas are for recreational use. Also if you can show to them that this would be of interest to a sizable group of residents and the demand for such a facility exsts. Keep in mind that the process is long and plenty of foot work needs to be done, that is the my opinion and experience.

Handsfam

Good post Enrique. You mention that this has been your experience. If you have successfully navigated these waters before I'd like to learn more about your experience.

LDM

My Feedback: (15)

wow am i the only person in sales online ? First off you let the plice man try the plane , secondly you bring donuts , third you have a fun fly that benifts the local police or youth league .
Sounds like science fiction ? Its true I fly at a local company off ofa perfact paved parking lot over a really nice grass field , police stop all the time , I pull out the Icarus berlot -the slowest plane I have , I keep it in the acr for my kids and anyone can fly it .
Police are good people who patroll parks for all the right reasons , give them a fun reason to be there and dont be a nussance to the visitors at the park , be carfful of kids and babys , and in crowed parks dont fly a plane with moer power then a speed 300 .
for all the cynics the donut comment was a joke !

enrique1123

Thanks Handsfam and good post LDM, In my personal experience I regularly have to reach compromises that affect the livelihood of about 500 people, and that is not an easy task. I became involved about 3 years ago with my daughter's after school program. One of the proposals that I presented was a Science class revolving around flight. It would be 2 days a week for and 90 minutes everytime, I enlisted the help of a fellow club member with a lot more teaching experience than me and we set it up. The kids learn the history of flight and to build simple balsa, rubber power planes, halfway through the course we talked to the schools distric about designating an area for these planes to be flown: After some discussions a football field was granted for our exclusive use on Tuesdays, Thursdays and Sunday mornings. We still fly at this location and we have quite a crowd now that some of the kids are hooked and have made the transition to RC. By the way look at my avatar, that was done by a newby at a different location who refused any help on learning to fly. Good luck gentlemen.

feihu-RCU

With all the hype about park flyers being able to fly most anywhere, the park flyer manufacturers are having a field day. Consumers are buying them up - only to find that there really isn't any "most anywhere" to fly.
I have two excellent flying park flyers. I've tries the soccer fields but kids and moms are out real early, and I have been asked by Security not to fly in a mall lot at 6:30 am with no one in sight. I belong to a club that has an excellent site for gas, many of which are 1/4 scale and pattern and sport - but they don't mix with park flyers - just like general aviation don't mix with commercial airlines.
Don't know what the answer is - so my park flyers are hangar queens!

LDM

My Feedback: (15)

Thanks Enrique , great work !! Congrads to you and the school .
As far as no place to fly , please keep trying . I have found supermarket Parking lots at the slow end , Colledge fields, new home developments in the early statges,