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Good Service..........Bad Service......

Old 03-19-2005, 02:13 PM
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lwien
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Default Good Service..........Bad Service......

You guys might want to check out the following thread, especially being that it talks about one of the advertisers here at rcuniverse...........as well as mentioning a few dealers that just give great customer service......

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?p=3476025

Old 03-19-2005, 06:35 PM
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Default RE: Good Service..........Bad Service......

Man, hard to believe NES is still in business with that sort of attitude.
Old 03-19-2005, 08:05 PM
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Default RE: Good Service..........Bad Service......

I can't believe you called them for that! What a complete waste of time. Is it any more then two screws to mount the motor in the gearbox? This has to be one of the most silly threads I've ever come across.
Old 03-19-2005, 08:39 PM
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Default RE: Good Service..........Bad Service......

ORIGINAL: BrunswickOH

I can't believe you called them for that! What a complete waste of time. Is it any more then two screws to mount the motor in the gearbox? This has to be one of the most silly threads I've ever come across.
Brunswick, you're right......it's not that big of a deal putting the motor together, but I didn't know that before I called them, and I didn't want to open the boxes to find out until I knew more. That's why I called them in the first place. I even said so in my original post. But apparently, in their advertising, THEY felt that it was important enough that they put "fully assembled" not only in their ad, but they put it in itallics. If they didn't think that it was a selling feature, they wouldn't have done that.

But the bigger issue is how they handled a customer who called them up. Rather than to offer something that was adverstised, they instead made the remark that if it's so difficult to put a motor together than you shouldn't be in the hobby. Now if that remark came from you or someone else on this board, that would be fine............for that is nothing more but an opinion, and in fact, I may even agree with it. But having it come from a business who sells product and aim it at a customer is pure BS.......

Listen Brunswick.........I'm really a total newbie when it comes to stuff like this. I have NEVER had a brushless set up before. So when I got the two boxes, I was a bit taken aback. I mean, this thing was supposed to be assembled. That's what they said it would be in their ads, but it wasn't. I didn't want to open them up, because I didn't know that all it took was two screws to mount the motor....................That's why I called them.

Now you may think that this is a complete waste of time, but I was really miffed at how I was handled on the phone, and apparently, I'm not the only one, because it was suggested that I do a search on NES over at rcgroups and what I turned up was many other people having the same issues..........

I guess the reason that I'm kinda plugged into this, is because I've been in the retail business for over 30 years. I know how important good customer service is and what it takes to do it right.............and the way they did it was completly wrong, even if it was only ONE effin' screw that needed to be screwed in........

Is this thread silly, as you say? I don't think so..............especially if you spend a few hundred dollars with a company to get product that is supposed to be what they advertise and it isn't, and when you call them on it, they tell you that you "shouldn't be in the hobby", and they don't even apologize for selling something that isn't what they advertised, and they made no attempt to reconcile it? No, Brunswick, this thread isn't silly................If anything, it's the way NES does business that is silly.........If you click on the link that I posted in the original post above, you will see others that have had the same experience with them as I.


Anyway, I've said all that needs to be said on this...........There are other issues with NES that is mentioned in many other threads over at rcgroups. I just wish I would have read them before I made a purchase............

On a positive note, I have done business with both Mountain Models and gwsexpert.com, and they both are super to do business with. If you ask a question in email about their product, they are back with you within 10 minutes or less with an answer. They are a pure pleasure to do business with, and I recommend them highly...........I will be buying many more planes from Doug and Karen over at Mountain Models and other stuff from Jerry over at gwsexpert, but NES has seen the last of me.......




Old 03-19-2005, 09:45 PM
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Default RE: Good Service..........Bad Service......

Well point taken, I guess. Sounds like you now realize the folly of your phone call and are just upset with the way he talked to you. Some people are very direct and that rubs some others the wrong way. I agree with you that if you're making you living selling people things that you need to bite your lip and not insult your potential paycheck.

Jim
Old 03-19-2005, 10:04 PM
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Default RE: Good Service..........Bad Service......

Tell ya one other tidbit, Brunswick, and then I promise, I'll be done.

A few days after I ordered my Switchback from Karen and Doug over at Mountain Models, I decided to order a few roles of Solite.........Got an email back sayin that it would be out to me within 24 hours. About 8 hours later, when I started going thru the kit, I noticed that the canopy was missing so I emailed them and told them that I needed a canopy. I got an email back within 5 minutes, apologizing for the mistake and they told me that it was good that I mentioned it to them as quick as I did, because they had the Solite all packed up and ready to go, but they unpacked it and threw the canopy in with the Solite in the same package, and they didn't charge me for shipping for either one, and they put a note in the box thanking me for my business. And........I got it within 24 hours because they Fed-Exed it out to me from Colorado.

With NES, when I ordered the two motors on their site, they quoted me 5 dollars for shipping. When I received it, I was billed, not 5 dollars, but 8 dollars. It's not the two screws or the few bucks in shipping that's screwed............It's just the way they do business that's screwed..............oh, and do ya think I got the same kind of "thank you" that I got from Mountain Models???
Nothing.......nada............

For me, I would much rather not only do business with people that do what they say they are going to do, but also appreciate the money that I am spending with them. NES, obviously doesn't give a hoot. Not so with either MM or GWSEXPERT.
Old 03-20-2005, 12:42 AM
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Default RE: Good Service..........Bad Service......

I can also say that I have a very positive experience with Mountain Models myself.

I have checked on some of Nesails stuff but I have also read many bad reports about this company thus I have not tried to order anything from them. I just hate my money floating around out there in the world with no product on my desk I quess.
Old 03-20-2005, 10:44 AM
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Default RE: Good Service..........Bad Service......

Rat after reading your post on RCGroups about Southwest RC- It is laughable that you would have a problem with the way that NES does business-
Old 03-20-2005, 11:38 AM
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Default RE: Good Service..........Bad Service......


ORIGINAL: BrunswickOH

Rat after reading your post on RCGroups about Southwest RC- It is laughable that you would have a problem with the way that NES does business-
What I had one bad experience with them but they explained to me what had happened so I bought from them again with quick shipping and good experience. The experience I had with them was my first and it was before anyone had a bad experience. I would buy from them again but they have gotten out of the business from what I have been told. Apparently they had customers that had actually received product (nice thing about shipping/tracking verification) yet they were using rcgroups to claim that they did not receive product and were demanding their money back. Same goes for some that had gotten refunds and promised to send stuff back via shipping /tracking verification, they never actually returned the products that they were reimbursed for. People were using the Gorski thread to try and scam free product out of Southwest RC.


Old 03-20-2005, 02:59 PM
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Default RE: Good Service..........Bad Service......

They are still stealing from people today, yet you want to defend them and bash NES.

You are one funny RAT
Old 03-20-2005, 04:09 PM
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Default RE: Good Service..........Bad Service......

I am not bashing Nesail. I am just saying that from what I have read thet I will not be buying from them.

As far as the Gorski thing goes well he has been removed and his isp banned from RCgroups (just from what I have read anyway) This was due to registering with a new name when his previus account was disabled. They are not giving him a chance to defend himself and since he can not sell on there anymore then how can he be ripping people off still today. He can't post at all thus no more sales adds in the classifieds.

Would I purchase from him again????? If he was still in the business then probly but this is nto the case so no I will not be purchasing from them again.
Old 03-20-2005, 04:17 PM
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Default RE: Good Service..........Bad Service......

Considering some of the things NES has done; most I've read about, once happened to me; this seems like a pretty petty complaint. They do advertise on and support RCU and for that I'm greatful, although I still wont buy from them. For the best service in the world, it's www.aeromicro.com
Old 03-20-2005, 06:32 PM
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Default RE: Good Service..........Bad Service......

Petty complaint?

They advertise one thing, and then when you order it, they send you something else.
They quote a shipping price and then bill you more than they quoted.
When you call them and mention what happened they:
Do not offer an apolgy.
Do not offer to replace what they sold you with what was originally advertised.
Do not offer you a refund on the difference of what they quoted you for shipping versus what they charged you.
Do not thank you for your business

And last of all, they insult you by saying that you shouldn't be in the hobby if these things are such a big deal.

Petty complaint? I guess it's petty if that's the way you like to be treated by a business that you just spent 200 dollars with.
Me........I expect to get the product that was advertised and that I ordered. I expect to pay for the shipping that was quoted. I expect to be appreciated for the business that I am giving them. And I expect NOT to be insulted.

In other words, I expect to be treated as a customer.

When I was in the retail business for over thirty years, I constantly preached to my 150+ employees that those customers that come walking in the front door makes your paychecks possible. They are the ones that put food on your table. Treat them as such, and they will reward you with their continued business. Do otherwise and you will not only lose them as customers but you will lose your job as well.

If you really want to see and experience what good customer service is like in this hobby of ours, purchase something from Karen and Doug at Mountain Models or Jerry at gwsexpert.................THEY know how to run a business.......




Old 03-21-2005, 01:01 AM
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Default RE: Good Service..........Bad Service......

1st he did get EXACTLY what he ordered!!! End of story, if you are sitting their complaining about putting two small screws in the motor you SHOULD take up another hobby! The OP admitted as much in one of his earlier posts! As far as the shipping, I just went to the site and it VERY clearly quoted $8 shipping. I'm much more inclined to believe that the OP read it wrong! I've ordered small orders from them in the past and my shipping was $8

End of story, I still insist that it's another pointless thread bashing NES for no reason at all.

Jim
Old 03-21-2005, 11:51 AM
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Default RE: Good Service..........Bad Service......

ORIGINAL: BrunswickOH

1st he did get EXACTLY what he ordered!!! End of story, if you are sitting their complaining about putting two small screws in the motor you SHOULD take up another hobby!
Jim
Jim, what in the hell is wrong with you? If you read any of my posts, I have said numerous times that I AM NOT COMPLAINING ABOUT PUTTING IN TWO SMALL SCREWS. I have said so in mutliple posts.

And you are dead wrong about me getting EXACTLY what I ordered. Look at the following link. It is the ad that I responded to:

http://www.nesail.com/detail.php?productID=3318

What does the picture show, Jim? Does it show the motor in one box, completely assmebled? Now scroll down to the bottom of the ad. What does it say, Jim? Does it say, in red with an exclamation point, "Completely assembled – Plug & Play!" ?

Now aparently, NES felt that putting "Completely assembled – Plug & Play!" was important enough that they not only put it in red but they put an exclamation point on it to even bring further attention to it. Why did they do this. Jim? Because they felt, and rightly so, that it would make the ad appeal to a wider range of customers and to newbies such as myself.

So, I fell for the ad and made my purchase. What I got, was NOT exactly what I ordered, and if you fail to see that, then you myopic vision of things is totally distorted.

I am not upset about putting in two screws. I am upset at their false adverstising. I'm upset that I fell for it. I'm upset that they feel that they have done nothing wrong, and I'm upset that they haven't even offered to replace what I purchased with what is advertised.

All I want is to get what I ordered. Why is that so wrong??

And ya know what's amazing? They haven't changed their ad. It STILL says "Completely assembeled" and they are sending out unassembled motors. That is wrong. It is false advertising ANY way you look at it, and having to either spend hours putting the motor together, or 3 minutes putting in two screws has no bearing on this issue.





Old 03-21-2005, 12:11 PM
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Default RE: Good Service..........Bad Service......

This gets more comical by the minute! Of course it was completely assembled, the fact that you can't see that is simply amazing to me! False advertising? You are off the deep end my friend? Offer to replace it? I'll tell you what, send it to me and I'll put in the two screws for you, I'm sure I can find a spare five seconds to get it done! Dealing with people like you is why many companies go out of business, it's just not worth it. If they start sending out a roll of wire, bag of magnets, and other assorted spare parts then I'm sure they will change the AD to say "Assembly required" Do yourself a favor and quit the hobby now! you're in for a world of trouble. I see lots of complaints about faulty electronics and bad instructions in your future.
Old 03-21-2005, 12:15 PM
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Default RE: Good Service..........Bad Service......

I also notice that the prop adapter is not even on the shaft in that picture!!! Can't they see that it's not completely assembled!! IT doesn't have the prop adapter on, that could take up wards of 3 seconds to install!! And plug and play, how can that be, you can't use the GWS propeller without drilling it out to fit that prop adapter........that's not plug and play at all, now you'll have to drill a prop or buy an APC prop...I smell CLASS ACTION LAW SUIT here!!! What do you say, lets call the attorneys today!
Old 03-21-2005, 12:57 PM
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Default RE: Good Service..........Bad Service......

Jim,

Himax offers these motors both ways. You can buy them separate or you can buy them assembled. If you purchase them separately, you would get the following:

HA2025-4200 motor along with an ACC3966, which is the stick mount gear box.

If you purchased it already assembled, the sku number would be HG2025-4266.

On my invoice, it says HG2025-4266. That's not what I got.

Again, I realize that this is not important to you. But apparently, it is important to not only NES for that's the way they advertised it, but it's also important to Himax, because they offer it in both configurations.

Why shouldn't a customer expect to get what he purchased? Why is it comical to you that a customer should expect to get what they purchased? They advertised, and I purchased an HG2025-4266. It even says that on my invoice, but what I got was an HA2025-4200 and an ACC3966.

Maybe I'm just more sensitive to this than many because for 30 years I ran a retail chain and one of my prime responsibilities was advertising along with sales and marketing. We spent over 4 million dollars a year advertising in the Los Angeles Times. I have received many of the complaints that you are talking about over the years, and have done what it took to make the customer happy. Of course, we all make mistakes, and we learn from them and move on. I made some mistakes in my advertising as well, but I corrected them and made it right with my customers.

I abhor trivial law suits and I would never partake in such. But with all the time and effort that I have put in over the years in not only training my sales staff and managers how to sell and how to treat their customers with integrity and respect, but also the time and effort with our attorneys in trying to get our advertising right, I am just a little amazed at how all this is being handled.

But enough of this. I've spent wayyyy to much energy and time on this issue and it's time to move on. NES DESERVED to get a bad rap on this...............Mountain Models and GWSEXPERT DESERVED my praise for the excellent customer service that they have offered, not only to me, but to anyone that they have done business with. All one has to do is some searches on these manufacturers over at rcgroups to see that my experiences are not anomalies, for "EVERYONE" that has done business with MM has praised their service, and that cannot be said for NES. My mistake was not doing a search on NES before I made my purchase, because if I read all the bad raps that has come their way, I would never have done business with them in the first place.

Done................I have said everything there is to say on this..................anything else would just be repetition......


Old 03-21-2005, 01:34 PM
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Default RE: Good Service..........Bad Service......

Copied and pated from the NES site


Himax HA025 BL motor installed –optimum power and performance,

use HG2025 to replace 370, 400, & 480 type motors,

Aluminum gear housing – no more broken gear housing,

Built-in cooling fins – no more overheated motors,

10mm x 10mm mounting box – fits most planes designed with GWS gearboxes,

6.6:1 gears installed, 5.3:1 & 4.3:1 gears included – flexible power management,

Dual Ball Bearings with hardened shaft – efficient and durable operation,

Aluminum prop adapter included,

Completely assembled – Plug & Play!


Ok answer me this, how many beginners know how to properly install a motor into a gearbox to get the proper gear mesh so that they do not demolish the gears on the first or second flight????? This is wear Cal would benefit from the assembled product ie Plug and Play. This is how NES advertised it and how it should be sold. Sure Cal could go around the internet asking how to properly install the motor so the gear lash is set correctly but he will get many different answers on how to install this, which may get frusterating. I fully agree with Cal in that if the product was advertised as an assembled product then it should be assembled. It would be like buying a complete RTF kit then having to install and assemble everything to get it in the air. It would be like buying a car and the tires were sitting in the trunk rather then installed on the car properly. Had Cal known that the parts would not be assembled then he could have gotten the parts seperatly from someone else and did the assembling himself, but he did not. he wanted an assembled product and that is what he ordered.

Yeap I call it false advertising. Also was the attitude Sal had when Cal called him. Joking or not, it was not called for. You never joke with a customer that you have never met before as it can upset them. If a business man wants to joke with customers then maybe they should get into standup comedy rather then retail sales or wait till he knows the customer well enough before any jokes are made.
Old 03-21-2005, 01:46 PM
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Default RE: Good Service..........Bad Service......

ORIGINAL: Rat1


Ok answer me this, how many beginners know how to properly install a motor into a gearbox to get the proper gear mesh so that they do not demolish the gears on the first or second flight?????
Damn, Rat, I never thought about that. I thought that all you had to do is slide in the gear so that it meshed with the pinion gear. I have no idea that there was a proper way or an improper way to do this. Please tell me what ya know. Thanks. I did notice that the pinion has a lot of variablity on how far it goes on the shaft. What should I be concerned about here? I set it up so the main gear is not touching the back flange of the pinion, but that it is making full contact with the gears. Did I do this right ?? How do I set the gear lash correctly?

Old 03-21-2005, 02:02 PM
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Default RE: Good Service..........Bad Service......

Some gear boxes are slightly adjustable as the slots for the screws will be elongated. If the gears are too tight they will bind and cause higher amperage draw and possible damage to the motor, speed control or the gears. Too loose and the gears may strip out from not having enough surface contact. Some people will use the thin peice of paper inbetween the gears. I install the motor and slowly adjust the motor while rotating the gears to find the best lash with the least bind.

I am not familiar with the motor and gear box combination you purchased but take a look at it and see if the mounting holes for the motor are elongated or oval shaped.
Old 03-21-2005, 02:06 PM
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Default RE: Good Service..........Bad Service......

I just looked at the site and it does not look like the mesh is adjustable in this gear box. It looks like the mount clamps around the can of the motor but I could be wrong.
Old 03-21-2005, 02:08 PM
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Default RE: Good Service..........Bad Service......

How about the prop adapter?? There should be an included DVD on how to properly install it! Surely you don't think that putting the two screws in the motor is any more difficult then installing the prop adapter. I think you two rocket scientist are on to something here! Heck Cal I think where you're done with all the "assembly" here you'll be able to tell all your friends that you hand crafted the motor on your plane. You've really built yourself a fine power plant there, you should be very happy with it. You didn't even get into the fact that your speed controller is not programmed for your particular setup, it still has the factory settings on it!!! There's another thing you're going to have to "build" ohhhhh the work involved here!! Please take my advise QUIT NOW BEFORE IT'S TOO LATE!!

Jim
Old 03-21-2005, 02:11 PM
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Default RE: Good Service..........Bad Service......


ORIGINAL: Rat1

I just looked at the site and it does not look like the mesh is adjustable in this gear box. It looks like the mount clamps around the can of the motor but I could be wrong.
Yup, the mount clamps around the can of the motor. You have infinite variability on where the can is within the mount. I set it up so that the front of the can is even with the front of the mount. The pinion gear also has some variability as to how far it slides on the shaft. I set it up as stated in my post above. Hope I did it right, in that there was no instructions that came with the gearbox.
Old 03-21-2005, 02:25 PM
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ORIGINAL: BrunswickOH

How about the prop adapter?? There should be an included DVD on how to properly install it! Surely you don't think that putting the two screws in the motor is any more difficult then installing the prop adapter. I think you two rocket scientist are on to something here! Heck Cal I think where you're done with all the "assembly" here you'll be able to tell all your friends that you hand crafted the motor on your plane. You've really built yourself a fine power plant there, you should be very happy with it. You didn't even get into the fact that your speed controller is not programmed for your particular setup, it still has the factory settings on it!!! There's another thing you're going to have to "build" ohhhhh the work involved here!! Please take my advise QUIT NOW BEFORE IT'S TOO LATE!!

Jim
How many times do I have to say it Jim. I don't mind building anything. I have no problem in programming a speed controller. I don't know how to do it yet, but I'll learn. I just built my first balsa build..........a Switchback, and being that I haven't built anything in my life before, I'm pretty darn proud of it and how it came out. I really enjoy this hobby because I'm doing and learning things that I have never done before.

My issues has nothing to do with having to build anything. It has everything to do with getting what was advertised and getting what was purchased. Again, my INVOICE says, one 2025-4266. THAT is what I purchased. THAT is NOT WHAT THEY SENT ME. What I purchased, and what is stated on my invoice is the same, but what they sent me is a completly different sku.

Rat is right. If I wanted to purchase these parts seperatly, I may have been able to find an even better deal by shopping around. But that's not what I wanted. I wanted a completely assembled motor and gearbox. That's what they advertised, that's what I ordered, and that's what it says on my invoice............but.........that is NOT what they sent me.




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