L0stS0ul

The stock parkzone P-51 weights in at 29 ounces RTF with the stock nimh battery. It's less but not sure how much less with the lipo they recommend. The Parkzone brushed setup will fly any of the GWS birds very nicely. You have to really try to get them over 20 ounces RTF weight. The only challenge would be using the parkzone gearbox would take some modifications. You can use the parkzone ESC though with the GWS 400 powersystems no problem.

Little Sally

i used the pz p-51 brushed motor on my gws corsair(glassed, around 25 oz) with the stock batt, and its a fire ball compared to the p-51! not brushless of course, but very "spirited"
also, has pz p-51 prop! i just cut the nose flat, added a piece of lite ply, and bolted the gear box right to it! works great, 17 flight so far.

Libertarian

Actually that's not quite true. While there are many advantages to going to a whole new radio system (especially using 2 servos for the ailerons) you could also use the Powerzone module as I have done. With it you can use all the stock Rx and servos and Tx. The price information is found here: [link=http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/show...49&postcount=64]Powerzone[/link]
The install instructions are here: [link=http://www.rc-cam.com/imagepzs/instructions.pdf]Powerzone install[/link]
Here's a shot of my BL setup with the Powerzone module at the bottom. It supports many different wiring setups.
I am finally getting the time to finish up my Mustang with the FS 400 prop and Axi 2808/24 BL motor Outrunner setup using an Espritmodels #6 Motor 2.5" E-mount and an E-Flite 40 amp ESC. I just hacked a few inches off the CF arrow shaft and Gorilla glued it into the wing last night (see pic). Although I may miss the growl of the gearbox I won't miss the problems, friction loss and fragility of the it. Should have it in the air in a day or two. Can't wait to start chasing buzzards using my multipod video camera!

kahloq

What exactly are you saying is "not quite true"? There was nothing to refute. You did something different then me and thats fine. An inrunner motor will fit the stock gearbox no issues at all. I changed the radio gear because I use a DX6 Specktrum on most everything else to avoid radio hits. I do not need to use Powerzone equipment. When I said a brushless motor needs a different esc, I am not mistaken. The Parkzone P-51 receiver and esc are all one unit, not separate. So yes, I would need a new esc if using a brushless motor and a different receiver.

Libertarian

[/quote]

All I was saying is that although YES a BL motor DOES need a different ESC it is now no longer necessary to use a different radio and receiver since your statement infers you must. Don't be insulted; (as you seem to be) as you said we both did something different which is fine. But there are many other people who read these forums to learn about the possibilities for the P-51 and for them I was correcting your assumption that a radio and receiver change is necessary. I am always interested to hear what the experienced among you are doing and we newbies learn from it as we read your tales, but for the poorer and less experienced and less involved in RC among us the simpler, cheaper, quicker powerzone option should be pointed out since not everyone can/will devote themselves to changing quite so much as you more experience fliers do. I was definitely NOT saying you needed it; just that others might enjoy using it. Understand?

kahloq

Ok, your reading alot more into what people say then what is there. I never said a change of radio gear was required nor did I imply that it was if you move to a brushless motor. I stated a change of esc is needed which you agreed with. Thats all I said. Then, I mentioned what I did. I never said someone must use the same technique as I. I also said what you proposed was fine regarding the Powerzone stuff. Please don't assume to think I was offended as there was nothing in my responses to indicate that. If someone has an approach to share, by all means that is what this forum is for. I shared what I did, never indicating that is what everyone would need to do. A different esc is not the same thing as a different receiver and I did not imply this to be the case at all. Even your Powerzone link says a new esc is required. Understand?

Glad that you could point people to an option they may not have known about. If you look at what I have said, I quantified the decision to use different radio gear for the purpose of avoiding radio hits(aka Dx6 Specktrum tx/rx) Not everyone chooses to do this and your input regarding the Powerzone unit is good to see.

Libertarian

I agree with pretty much everything you said.

It's just the degreed English teacher in me that noticed cause and effect in your statement (see highlights).

Saying obviously since makes one assume you obviously since obviously since EQUALS because in the cause and effect structure of the sentence making the reader believe that because a BL motor needs a different esc you necessarily need a different radio and receiver. I was merely pointing out that the inference (you apparently were not intending) wasn't necessarily so.

Yes we both agree a different esc is needed but I wasn't talking about that.
I should probably be more forgiving of others writing skills on here.

kahloq

I see your point sort of. But since this is not a college discussion forum, writing skills are not being graded. It is too easy for someone to misinterpret what someone types online in a forum, so reading into the message is not always accurate. If in doubt, it is better to inquire as to what the original person meant by his/her statement rather then to assume meaning in this type of environment. In a college level forum, you are of course free to grade how you please.

erauskydiver

Hey everybody. I just recently got a PZ Typhoon, and I love it!! Anyway, I also have a PZ 51, but I rarely fly it because I dont like the performance. I was thinking about putting Typhoon electronics into my Mustang. What are your thoughts on this? Is there a cheaper route than buying another Typhoon motor, ESC, servos, and Rx?

kahloq

The PZ Typhoon is a nice plane even stock, but the batteries for both the Typhoon and the P-51 are large, heavy, and only last for about 6 mins or so. If you can, go to Li-po and you'll see a big difference in performance with the P-51. All it takes is to remove a jumper pin on the rx and it will be li-po ready. I used the motor from the typhoon and palced that in my P-51 and used the stock P-51 gear box...just switch to the bigger pinion gear that comes on the stock P-51 480 motor. You will though need to change the esc, but not necessarily the rx. You can do the Powerzone thing like Libertarian mentioned and you can continue to use the 3-channel rx/tx that came with your plane. OR, you could simply buy the typhoon gear as you mentioned and use the radio that came with your typhoon on both planes. The servos that come with the typhoon will fit perfectly in the P-51 or you can use Hitec HS -81's...they are about the same size.
Note...I HIGHLY recommend putting a servo with METAL GEARS in the place of the stock ELEVATOR servo for the typhoon. I have had two PZ servos strip on me and one time it caused a nose in full throttle crash. AS a result, I switched to a Hitec HS81 M/G(metal gear).

Ok, so far as cost wise, you could get another typhoon brushless motor at $40 plus the brushless esc at $42.50 and will require the purchase of the receiver unit(since these are 3 wire standard parts..not 5 wire that is used in the P-51). So, the receiver is another $26 and two PZ servos at $12.50 each. Total cost= $121 to convert the P-51 to brushless set up using the tyhoon gear OR buy the Powerzone unit and brushless motor + esc unit. The cost of the Powerzone unit is $29
( http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=430386 ) This will save you a little bit($20) so total conversion cost would be $100 going this route.

Another option:
Buy whatever inrunner motor you want and mate that with whatever esc you want. What I did was use the Typhoon brushless motor and put an eflight 20 amp esc in. Same price as the typhoon esc, except the eflight was already lipo ready with no programming. If you use a lipo with the typhoon esc without properly programming it, it will burn out.

erauskydiver

Hey Glacier Girl, what parts did you use for your retracts? Does your tail wheel retract and steer? Also, where did you get the 4 blade prop?

Libertarian

So kahloq, are you saying the internal plastic gears stripped inside the elevator servos!?!?! [X(] That is terrifying! Was that on a PZ Mustang? After all the work I put in my my Stang I'd be SO pissed if a servo did that to me!! Thanks for the heads up!

kahloq

Yes, the internal plastic gears stripped midflight. Please note this was on the PZ 3D typhoon, but the servos used in that plane are basically the same as used in the PZ P-51(size wise) except the P-51 uses 5 wire servos and the 3D typhoon uses standard 3 wire. Please also note that the elevator area is a lot bigger on the 3D typhoon so it places a lot more stress on the servos. If you have changed internal stuff inside your PZ P-51, it cant hurt to use metal gear servos, but you are less likely to strip the plastic gears in the mustang because the force exerted on the elevator at speed will be less due to less total area compared to the 3D typhoon that is a fully capable 3D plane. However, on high rates, you may place a high load on the servo and in a loop or soemthing like that, it might strip. The Hitec Hs81 M/Gs are $27. Not a bad investment to save a plane from crashing.
I recommend changing the elev servo in the 3D typhoon to metal and it is a simple swap since the connectors are standard rc gear type stuff. I replaced the PZ servo with a Hitex HS81 Metal gear. Also, I do not recommend using e-flight S75 submicro servos for elevator either. They are small, light weight, but offer only 17oz of torque....not enough for a large surface area like a 3D elevator. I believe they are fine for warbird airleron control though(if using one on each wing such as a GWS plane w/dual airleron servos.) Or you could use them in PZ P-51 if setting up dual servos for airleron too.

Air Sally

Well finally got some good weather up here. i flew tues with the brushless e-flite 450... ive had some issues...i put a apc 11x4.7 slow flyer prop it had good vertical but the plane just aint flying like i think it should .well i did a loop and it snaped out of it on top.then went into a spin...i let go of the sticks and it stop spinning,i gently pulled up about 10 ft off the ground so i cut power and just landed.Good thing i did cause my elev. had broken in two,no doubt it was wounded from the crash a few weeks back.yes i ck'd the stab and elev. it was good .any way i fixed it ,the prop broke ,LHS only had a e-flite 10x7 SF,so today i flew that prop,still not what i was looking for ,my lipo lost power in about 4mins so i landed ...i love the flaperons floats right in, best landing i ever had. so i put the stock batt in and it flew a lot better...hmmm i think the lipo is wounded also from the crash.so i land ...another fine landing and that dang prop broke.So i put the stock prop on charged the stock batt for 10 mins. and put it back up in the air ...it flew really good ,so it's getting there...i need a new lipo batt. during all this bad weather i got bit by the jet bug ...i'm building a 3D foamy F-18,it's scratch built from Depron foam it's bigger than the kit ,53" long with 36" wing span. im ready to load the radio and elec's so I'll be going back to stock on the P-51. check these jets out at "parkjets.com"Well hope you all get some flights in this week end. AirSally out.

Glacier Girl

My Feedback: (4)

Ummm, First one was just standard GP mechanical retracts, with Dave Brown wheels, system operated off a Hitec 81MG servo. Tail wheel does not retract, but does steer. Used a Hitec 81 servo to drive it. Sits in the slot next to the elevator servo.
Second version I built used air retracts, from Larry at SouthEast Models. Much simpler to install, but much more expensive.

Little Sally

Hey GG, could you post some pics of both of your retract set ups? that would be great.

Glacier Girl

My Feedback: (4)

L/S,
There are some pics of the mechanicals back on page 20.
I did a build on the air system on Watt Flyer.
http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/show...hp?t=53&page=3

sd_raptor

Hi All,

Been away a while getting my Multiplex Magister set to fly. Maidened it yesterday - easy to fly and very predictable. and it looks great in the air.

Back to the PZ P-51. Now I am getting it flyable again. Someone had posted an idea to add a guide for the elevator push rod. I though about adding a cross brace but my fingers are too fat. So, I cut a 6 inch piece of small diameter carbon fiber tube and slid it onto the push rod from the tail end, through the guide hole in the side of the P-51. I left about 1/8th inch sticking out and CA's that in place. I added a small zig-zag to the push rod between where it exits the fuse to make it line up with the control arm on the elevator. Now the elevtor push rod barely flexes.

Looking at the wing - I find that my spare wing is the old thinner foam [>:]. I was flexing the wing to find where it is weakest and discovered that most of the flex is right in the center. When I flexed the wing, the foam would pull as much as 1/8th inch away from the reinforcing foam spars inside. So, I glued the wing covering to the foam in the areas right around the aileron servo. The wing is much more rigid now.

I still want to cover the wing. I remeber a couple of posts about thermo-web or something like that but cannot find the posts. Could someone please point me to those?

I am also going to add some landing gear on the bottom of the wing, attaching them to the plastic part where the wing screws go. Haven't worked out the details yet but I'll keep you posted.

I have also been practicing flying the Parkzone P-51 using FMS and my Hitec radio with a USB adapter. Gunnerson's P-51 par file uses too large a prop size but after changing that and the control surface throws, the P-51 in FMS flies (and crashes) in a very similar way to the real plane. With FMS I have learned to cut the throttle back to about 70% soon after take-off, get some altitude and then dial in some more throttle. It will be interesting to see if I really learned anything from FMS when I get the bird back in the air.

Well, offf to the field to fly the Magister again. One nice thing about it is that it is big (65 inch wingspan) making it easy to see for an old fart like me.

dsilver668

Hi Everyone,
First off I want to thank everyone who has contributed to this thread. GG has some great ideas, and there are to many posters to list, but thank you all.
Next off.. I have been looking to get a war bird for some time. THE PZ looks l nice, but seems there are some quality issues with them. Kyosho has a nice looking bird but again people seem very displeased with it. Venom just came out with a P-51 but I havn't read much on it. It looks to be smaller than the Kyosho or the PZ, so it will probably not deal with wind very well.
I have also been looking at the AK-Model's P-51. It looks beutiful, but I haven't seen any real reviews on it.
I can buy a radio for $99.00 or less and somone on this forum mentioned a brushless setup from someone on the RCU for around $40.00.
This isn't much more than the PZ, and I think I will get much better quility and flying charictaristics from it.

Any input on the AK or Venom would be much apreciated... Thanks..

Glacier Girl

My Feedback: (4)

Well first thing I would want to know is, Do you have any low wing experience?
It's a different breed, and the Mustang is not a forgiving bird.
If you do have flight experience but no low wing, I would recommend the E-Flite P47 to start out with. I have one and it's like day and night compared to the stang, in ease of flying.

dsilver668

Hi GG,
High wing is no issue for me. both Glow and electric. I am currently putting in lots of simulator time flying the YAK 3D and can land it no problem. Admitadly there is rudder, but I try and fly with out it to get the feel right. I also come in hot on landings to simulate the not wanting to tip stall on landing deal found on warbirds.
My friend and flight guru flys an Extra Stiffy, and large scale 30% and 40% 3D planes so I have someone to help out.
I guess hearing all the plusses and minuses regarding PZ quality has me looking at other brands, but I am not sure what would be best... I want to get a warbird and not a 3D plane like the Typhoon even though I am sure it is a great plane. Just want the scale look...
I plan on getting some fixed wheels on the thing straight off as I don't like hand launching. Will also upgrade straight away to lipos. The extra juice will be worth it as it seems most problems stem from not enough grunt to get it going..

kahloq

If your going to bother with landing gear, then skip the PZ P-51. With all the upgrades you want to do, why bother getting a low end plane costing 179 and then having to also buy lipo's(2100 Thunder Power 3 cell is avg of 69, plus a brushless motor at about $40 or more depending on brand...can be less if you go with no name brand). The, you also have to either swap out the esc/rx unit...cuz they are one piece in the PZ P-51 or install that circuit board thingy mentioned a few pages back at additonal cost of 29. Now add in some landing gear....homemade or whatever...parts might run $10-20. So...estimated total is $330. You also get stuck with a low end 3 channel tx that isnt much use for anything else except other parkzone planes with no rudder.

So....if you really want scale and good looks, plus you MUST have landing gear....buy the Hyperion P-51. It is electric I have seen these in person and they are awesome looking planes PLUS they come with retracts and the plane is already glassed AS WELL AS including an aluminum spinner. Go here:
http://www.allerc.com/product_info.p...oducts_id=2136
There are several different paint schemes besides the olive drab one I linked too. I chose that one since it is the closest in color scheme to the PZ P-51. Dont get me wrong, the PZ P-51 is a decent plane, but retrofitting one to what you want would cost the same as buying Hyperion plane plus buying an outrunner motor for it. Kit is 199...add in outrunner for approx cost of 80 depending on brand and size you select and your at 279. Buy 5 micro servos and a reciever to work with radio you already have(if that high wing plane is owned by you) and your set.

Had I known about the Hyperion before buying the PZ P51, I might have gone that route. SInce I have the Pz P-51 already, I am stuck fussing with it. Just today, even after all the nice upgrades(aka lipo and brushless motor), I still had a bad hand launch...plane did fine on an earlier hand launch though.....this time, it was level throw, but it never climbed and after 15 feet hit the ground and cartwheeled. I hate hand launches. All the damage my 1st and 2nd PZ P-51 has suffered has been resulten from hand launch problems. Save yourself the headache and get something different since you dont like hand launches and want landing gear. You can still do a PZ P-51 and do all the upgrades you want, but it wont look as good as the Hyperion, although, if you crash the PZ P-51, it wont hurt so bad since it can be repaired easier.

Libertarian

How about these metal gear servos for the elevator and aileron? I got them off that site you recommended for the other Mustang. Is this an appropriate replacement? I noticed you can get them in either 6V or 4.8V; which do I choose? They're only $19.25 too![link=http://www.allerc.com/product_info.php?cPath=40&products_id=575]Metal gear servo[/link]

Wish we'd get some good flying weather here in Texas. For once all we've had is rainy/windy weather and there's no way I'm taking my new rebuilt stang out in these 30 knot winds!! []

kahloq

The servos with the 75 oz torque rating would be great yes. However, the other ones that are listed at 21oz or 25oz no.

Libertarian

Which voltage? 6V or 4.8V? I'm using a the 40 amp E-flite ESC and 2100 MAmph TP batt.