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ParkZone P-51 Mustang RTF

Old 08-15-2006, 05:32 PM
  #2051  
nn_shane
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Default RE: ParkZone P-51 Mustang RTF

I want to ask if anyone here has tried to intall a 480 outrunner brushless motor on their PZ P-51?

Gunracer, I checked the CG and it was OK according to the manual. How do you know where to adjust the thrust angle? Just trial and error?
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Old 08-15-2006, 05:45 PM
  #2052  
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Default RE: ParkZone P-51 Mustang RTF

@L0stS0ul,
I totaly agree with you lostsoul (who is one of the good young pilots).

@darnold,
I think you missread my post mate.I don't realy understand your response. (I am hard to understand at the best of times ,so I am told) I refered to usa pilots because in the uk we dont have the altitude problems, so don't have the same falure rate because our air isn't as thin, so in my opinnion(my guess) if you have more air flowing over the wing, around 9mph or above (my slopers wont fly in less and I don't have thin air or thin hair for that matter) but obviously not gale force winds, then you will have a more succesful launch, and if you arn't a novice then you know to expect the left torque roll under power(I agree that the down/right thrust isnt consistant in any two PZp-51's as the plastic cage is c*** ) as it is something all powered planes have and you wont be taken by suprise and can counteract it with ease,that is where I got my assumption that most of the pilots having the launch/crash problem were novices all novices(nigs in the uk forces) young or old will have this problem first time out in UK or USA or timuktoo.
my reference to young novices was an assumption that its a nice looking model ready to fly, example--"that looks good I will get one and go in the park and fly it"--- crash-- then look on the forums for advice, which they get a lot of I am sure we all agree on that.
I apologise to you and all USA pilots who thought I was getting a dig in.
As I said I have only flown slopers with only 2 yrs expierience, and no expierience with power till a month ago(aprox), I have sloped the PZ P-51 and it wont float in less than around 12 mph winds, it tip stalles all the time but with a decent wind it flies G-R-E-A-T.
So I stick to my guns on that one ,the p-51 needs a lot of air flowing over the wing to fly. so in thin air a 9 mph wind SHOULD help,when launching under power. but not being there it is only a guess.
having said that people everywhere have problems with this PZ model it has to be treated with kid gloves but parts are cheap enough (unless you are a pensioner like me)
afpe45.

PS: just try launching off a decent slope in a good wind Without power and I am sure you will agree with me.
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Old 08-15-2006, 07:38 PM
  #2053  
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Default RE: ParkZone P-51 Mustang RTF

Thanks for the clarification Afpe, I definitely misunderstood, my fault mate.

For what it's worth I agree with all of your clarified points and appreciate the newly understood insight. I personally now think that launching into "any" wind available is very wise and helps along with a near level toss at full speed and already having some up elevator and right aileron set with your finger on the stick before launch (not neccessarily the easiest thing to do, LOL). The interesting thing about this and other "secret hand launch" ways that pilots are having to do is that they are all compensations for something not quite right with our Mustangs and the BIGGEST part of this equation may be that people have flown other hand launchers that didn't display these inconsistant and weird tendancies. Some PZ Mustang pilots don't have to do any thing special to get consistantly great launches while others have to do Native American Indian rain dances (My grandmother was Native American Indian, LOL!) in order to get their rigs going. I just hope that mine continues to launch and fly well. Thanks for the clarification Afpe, I definitely misunderstood, my fault mate.


Finding a place or way to accomodate launching into the wind is probably paramount and some flying fields like the one I tried flying from at first may be set up in a way that doesn't facilitate this very well (ie. hill just behind you, runway going E/W, and lots of trees not to far in front of you). The place that I flew at yesterday was down the street where there are two ajoining baseball fields so it's easy to adjust for whatever direction the wind comes from that day. [8D][8D]

I just went back and read some of the early pages on this forum agian and found it interesting that people also ran into elevator and wing flex issues. After my first three unsuccessful attempts to hand launch about 3 months ago I decided that the elevator needed some stiffening so I put a small piece of graphite stick across the bottom of the entire (ok about 2/3) elevator with CA. It definitely stiffened her up and for all I know may be helping with the easy launches now. I also went through the gearbox and motor/mount screws and tightened them all (some were a little loose). I do have some back and forth play in the prop shaft that I am going to have to check on before tomorrow to make sure nothing is going wrong.

I wanted to take it out again today but too much to do so I'll have to wait until tomorrow. There is definitely a difference in performance between my two NiMh packs but I expected this because this is the norm in RC Racing (that's why we race matched packs and most of us serious ones have a Competition Electronics Turbo Thirty-Five or GFX so that we can discharge and check I.R., Mah, and V to know how are packs are performing). One of my packs I can easily do loops on "A" expo but the onther one just does a wing over, it didn't get as warm as the first (NiMh peak detect temps work best between 120-140 degrees depending on manufacturer) so I already had an idea that it wouldn't perform as well (I "step" charged both packs since they had been sitting unused for 3 months, lol) so I know they were fully charged.

I do think that PZ has made a good plane, one that I am really enjoying now, but also it is a plane that has its issues and only Horizon/PZ making some running production changes will fix those issues, especially since many of these problems doom even the super experienced once and a while.

BTW, has anyone noticed if they can push/pull their propeller/spinnner in and out about half an inch? Is this normal, I don't remember?

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Old 08-15-2006, 07:48 PM
  #2054  
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Default RE: ParkZone P-51 Mustang RTF

Funny story, I was at the local park when one of the local hobby shop guys pulls up with his Parkzone P-51. We were talking about hand launching and I was saying how I was nosing my FW-190 in ground. He told me he had the same experience with his P-51 when he first got it, but he had the plane for over a year now and it was no longer a problem for him after his first couple of flights.

So I told him I wanted to watch him hand launch his plane so I could see his technique and maybe learn from him. No problem he said, he holds the fuse forward of the wing, gives it full throttle and tosses it upward into the wind. The P-51 promptly nose dives straight into the ground and strips the motor pinion
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Old 08-15-2006, 07:52 PM
  #2055  
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Default RE: ParkZone P-51 Mustang RTF

SEEEEEE, I didn't make it up!!![:-][:-][8D][8D]

I'm sorry for your friend.
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Old 08-15-2006, 08:10 PM
  #2056  
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Default RE: ParkZone P-51 Mustang RTF

Service-Dude

Right now I'm finding that into the wind, left hand holding some up/right control at full throttle after walking (that's right walking) a few steps until the plane "feels" like it wants to fly out of my hands and then giving it a GENTLE level toss. I also have about an 1/16" of up travel on BOTH ailerons to help keep it from tip stalling. I think that all of these things are making a BIG difference in my Mustang launching well now but I have no idea if they will work for anyone else since I have read some different techniques for how people get their Mustangs in the air. It sounds like your hobby shop friend had his bite him, I only pray mine continues to work for me.
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Old 08-15-2006, 10:44 PM
  #2057  
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Default RE: ParkZone P-51 Mustang RTF



Did I ever post this here? I'm sure I did...

[link=http://www.rcgroups.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=24399&sort=1&cat=500&page=1]Video: How to launch the P-51[/link]

Other than the items that I've already written down in the preflight checklist I've also found a few other things over the last year and a half or so that I've been flying this plane. I still very much enjoy flying it. I still fly it bone stock with the stock NimH packs. (Just not going to fork over $80 for that lipo. To many other projects lol). Here's what I do to my plane now after 10 or so flights or if I've not flown it in a while.

1. Check the horizontal stablizer to make sure that its still aligned properly. Re-apply white elmers glue if needed Stuff rocks on this plane. Completely clear, holds great, and comes off if needed.

2. Dismantle the entire nose section.
a. Tighten the motor screws
b. Check the smoothness of the main gear. I've had a bad ball bearing before that had to be replaced. It should spin freely
c. With a q-tip I dip it in 30 weight RC Car Shock oil (pure silicone) and coat both the bearings and the main shaft.
d. Check the fire wall and reinforce any splits with 6 minute epoxy. Just mix some up and apply it to the splits with a q-tip. Makes it really solid. I have not sprayed any great stuff foam in my p-51 and I don't plan on it.
e. With the motor removed spin the pinion. Make sure that it moves freely without grinding and you can feel the magnets. The best thing to do really is pull the motor when you get the plane and get an idea of how the motor spins when new. That way if it's spinning to freely or it's grinding to much you know it's time to replace it. I've been getting 60-80 flights on my motors before I notice that it's time to replace them. I'm on my second motor now and it's about ready to be replaced at around 65 flights. I have a total of about 140 - 150 flights on my P-51.

3. I pull both of the aileron wires and I use the same 30 weight RC Car Shock Oil with a q-tip to the wires being very careful not to coat the section that is tightened down at the aileron. You only want to coat the part that is inside the tube.

4. Make sure that the ailerons are completely flush with the wing with the servo centered.

5. Tip for inverted flight:
Dubro makes these pushrod holders ([link=http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXKLV5&P=7]Dubro Pushrod Guides[/link] you cut off the 2 guide things and just epoxy it to the internal side where it naturally fits. You can also make your own out of depron if you have some laying around). They work great for this. The elevator push rod will flex a lot when the plane is inverted. These pushrod holders will strengthen the rod and not allow it to flex causing the same deflection under stress both ways. They work great

And that's pretty much all I do these days. Takes me all of 20 minutes to do this once every 10-15 flights. Honestly it's probably closer to 30 flights but I like to think I do it more than that lol.

That's how I do it and my P-51 flies great...

[link=http://www.rcgroups.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=27713&sort=1&cat=500&page=1]Video: Oh well you all have seen this before...More video on the way I swear[/link]

I promised more video months ago. I've just not had anyone out at the field with me to record any since then. I'll find someone to video my P-51 with a weak motor on the nimh pack the next time I go out.

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Old 08-15-2006, 11:12 PM
  #2058  
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Default RE: ParkZone P-51 Mustang RTF

Yeah Lost-S that's how I launch now, I never saw your video and it would have been nice to have seen it before I tried launching mine 3 months back. A lot of varied ways that people are getting this plane launched. Thanks for the vid's.
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Old 08-15-2006, 11:42 PM
  #2059  
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Default RE: ParkZone P-51 Mustang RTF

@darnold,

It certainly is worth reading this(and other threads on thePZ P-51) from the beginning, don't you agree,
most new reople to the forums (not refering to you) often fail to do this they just register and ask for help for their problem
and people such as lostsoul have to repeat themselfs over and over again, its often hard to keep track on which thread(or forum) that the expert , Successful flyer (or what ever you want to call them) has left the original post ,so posts again just to make sure, If everyone including me re read through the thread's once in a while this could be avoided,(and the thread wouldn't be as long either without the re posts) once you have read through the compleate thread, its just a case of a quick scan through, you don't need to read it all again as most of it sticks in your memory and a quick glance is all it takes and you say to yourself --"O yes that's it I remember now"-- .

afpe45.[8D]
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Old 08-16-2006, 01:30 AM
  #2060  
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Default RE: ParkZone P-51 Mustang RTF

Hey Lostsoul, how do you upload your videos to the RCgroups site? [:-] I have several videos of my stang on my Sony 8mm camera and no idea how to upload them. What camera do you use?
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Old 08-16-2006, 05:02 AM
  #2061  
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Default RE: ParkZone P-51 Mustang RTF

darnold,

I have a fool proof way of launching my Parkzone FW-190. I have never nosed into the ground since I started using this technique


[link=http://jerrytmi.com/forums/fw-190_ROG.wmv]Video: How to launch the FW-190[/link]
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Old 08-16-2006, 08:16 AM
  #2062  
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Default RE: ParkZone P-51 Mustang RTF

Old Crow fell out of the tree yesterday. Its bad. I pieced it back together last night. Stuffed the crushed wing with kleenex and used packing tape to hold the mess together. STuffed a plastic grocery bag in the nose to "uncrush it". I had to use another gear box, and ALOT of packing tape. It looks bad. I want to have at least one more flight just to prove to myself that it will do it. The plane was wringing wet when I found it in the morning. Spinner is glued together. What a heap of junk. Shame, I have had this plane a long time. I figure I have wasted no money on the repair and this flight will be a "nothing to lose" deal. No matter what, Old Crow has served well, and made me proud. One last victory lap before retirement.
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Old 08-16-2006, 09:18 AM
  #2063  
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Default RE: ParkZone P-51 Mustang RTF

RCGroups has a new video section that you can upload to. Those videos are from last year when they used the old video forum. I think you are limited to 10 mb per movie still though but you just post them here now as an attachment to a thread. Only in the forum below are movies allowed to be that big.

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=273
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Old 08-16-2006, 10:59 AM
  #2064  
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Default RE: ParkZone P-51 Mustang RTF

Afpe - I concurr wholeheartedly. I love referrence material, it definitely saves you headaches.[8D]

Service-Dude - You smarty, now that will save on a lot of stuff.[8D]

Ploesti - Go Old Crow, I hope it flies well.
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Old 08-16-2006, 12:44 PM
  #2065  
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Default RE: ParkZone P-51 Mustang RTF

As promised some pictures of a small dogfight over the English countryside. I do beleive the fw190 is a second generation plane in both design and performance, and is the better aircraft. But i am a Mustang lover, and once you get to know all her little gremlins, she is a joy to fly!
These are still pictures taken from a video, which i will eventually edit into a short dogfight clip. Hopefully i'll get some better pictures next time as it proved very difficult getting two novice flyers into the same picture frame!
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Old 08-16-2006, 01:46 PM
  #2066  
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Default RE: ParkZone P-51 Mustang RTF

Very cool dogfighting pics.

I would have to agree with that assessment. The FW is definitally a more refined plane. It's lighter, better battery hatch, higher wing loading I believe, hand grips for launching closer to the CG. It's definitally a more refined plane and I would love to see Parkzone update the P-51 with some of the upgrades. Parkzone learned a TON from the P-51. It's a first generation plane make no bones about it. They have made a few small upgrades but they have not changed the design over the past year and a half or so as far as I can tell. The gearbox is definitally more beefy than it used to be. That's the main thing I've noticed. I still can't find the 5mm depron wings everyone talks about. Every hobbyshop around here still stocks the 3mm wing the same as I have on mine.

I think a lot of people have problems launching the p-51 because of the akward grip you have to have to launch behind the wing. Launching back there also makes it tricky because you are pushing off behind the CG. I've never been comfortable launching from in front of the wing but it would be much more stable as your pushing off in front of the CG. I just don't like my hand that close to the prop. To be fair though both the Alfa's and the Flying Styro planes have the same issues. You just don't see as many new fliers taking their hand at those planes I've definitally seen people complaining about hand launching them as well. Just the nature of it being a warbird and a P-51

If I could go 10 flights without breaking a dang battery cover on my plane. Thank goodness they are cheap. I keep 5 in my flight box at all times.

I like both planes but I'll always keep a P-51 in my hanger.
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Old 08-16-2006, 02:20 PM
  #2067  
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Default RE: ParkZone P-51 Mustang RTF

I don't know Sniper, it looks like you got the better of the FW for most of the frames![8D]
I've heard that the FW flies "nicer" in that it has easier handling but I've also gotten the impression from other notes/experiences that the Mustang seems a little faster and more stable in the wind and may turn a little better without loosing some altitude but I don't know for sure. What were your experiences???????

It would be interesting to see if the FW has the better roll rate which it was renowned for but I know that in the "real things" the Mustang out climbed, dived, turned, max level speed the FW and ME and had a higher service ceiling. (The FW really had a hard time above 20K feet with a serious performance loss).

The last version of the FW (Dora) with the inline engine was a bear capable of ever so slightly outclimbing the Mustang D (about 100ft per minute) and potentially out speeding it in level high altitude flight (around 40,000ft), although the Mustang still could out turn and out dive it.

However, this later version of the FW would have been the equivelant of a later generation Mustang H (lightweight) which due to superior aerodynamics (and then lighter weight) still would have had all of the advantages. [8D]

So go get that "Hun" and watch for him coming out of the sun (and PLEASE get those vid's up)!
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Old 08-16-2006, 07:46 PM
  #2068  
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Default RE: ParkZone P-51 Mustang RTF

@L0stS0ul,
The 5mm thick wings also have the wing spar to the wing tip instead of 2 thirds of the wing. to give you some idea.

afpe45.
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Old 08-16-2006, 09:23 PM
  #2069  
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Default RE: ParkZone P-51 Mustang RTF

Still never seen one lol. Sometimes I wonder if this mysterious 5mm wing is the reason so many people are having problems. All I've ever seen are the original 3mm wings and they all fly fine.
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Old 08-16-2006, 09:53 PM
  #2070  
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Default RE: ParkZone P-51 Mustang RTF

Well, tis a sad, sad day. [&o] Mrs. Dee #1 is done, gone, finished. [&o]

All was going so, so well. I had another successful hand launch but with no wind out I had to manuever her right from the start but that wasn't a problem. [:-]

I was flying and all was well but on "A" expo I couldn't get her to roll so I put her on "B" setting.....and.......all was fine. I did crisper loops, rolls both ways and loved the extra control, life was good, no, life was very good. [8D]

I was grinning from ear to ear, all of the maintenance from this morning was paying off big time, Mrs. Dee was fast and bad (sprayed the motor to clean it out, lubed the bearings and gear train, tightened up the spur gear play and CA'd both the spur gear end and pinion end), yes life was very, very good....[8D]

....and then it happened...... I decided to do an outside loop so I took her up to about 200 ft since this was 8 times more room than what it was taking her to do normal loops.....bad, bad idea.........she lost a lot of altitude fast, I don't know if the linkage flexed or what but I figured trying to roll her right side up and pull out would be worst so I stuck with her hoping she would pull out...she almost got level upside down but not quite, was still at about a 20 degree angle....right into the ground.[X(][][:-][:-]

The good news....well Mrs. Dee #2 will be bought and flown in the next couple of weeks, once I figure out what I need. The electronics are all good and so to is the motor, gear train and elevator, but the rest of the plane is shot. [8D]

I need a fuselage, wing, cowl, spinner assembly. I see that the elevator servo is screw mounted but the aileron servo is glued so I am not sure whether I should transplant the aileron servo or not. Does anyone have any ideas on what I need to buy and what it will cost? My radio is on channel 3. Thanks guys for any advise you give.
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Old 08-17-2006, 09:33 AM
  #2071  
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Default RE: ParkZone P-51 Mustang RTF

Just buy the replacement airframe for $99.

Sorry to hear about the crash. I highly recommend strengthening the elevator push rod if you are doing any inverted manuevers.
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Old 08-17-2006, 10:54 AM
  #2072  
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Default RE: ParkZone P-51 Mustang RTF

Old Crow returned to the air this morning. It flies like nothing happened. It looks ridiculous. But it still flies. I'm not sure if this is a good thing, since I have a new airframe in my shopping cart at Horizon Hobby just waiting for me to check out.
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Old 08-17-2006, 04:56 PM
  #2073  
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Default RE: ParkZone P-51 Mustang RTF

Thanks Lost-S, I found the replacement airplane with no electronics from Horrizon Hobby for only $79.99! That's what I will order within the next week or so, I miss not flying my Mustang!!!![8D][8D]

Ploesti- I'm glad it's flying again, sounds like you are also.

Has anyone flown the Mustang back to back with the FW or against it and noticed any performance differences??? I know that the FW is "easier" to fly than the Mustang but it seems like the Mustang is a little faster and better in the wind. Anyone else found this to be the case or noticed any other differences??? As for me the Mustang always was my FAVORITE airplane followed by a tie between the F86, F-15, DVII, ME109, SE5A, Spad, DRI, Camel and F4 for second. Of course I also like the P38, Zero, FW, Spit and Corsair (all ties for third, ).
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Old 08-17-2006, 08:01 PM
  #2074  
Airchief
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Location: Dayton, OH
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Default RE: ParkZone P-51 Mustang RTF

Alright, My new brushless plane is almost ready to fly! The only thing that didn't go as planned was the great stuff foaming.

About an hour after I foamed it, it looked real good. The sides were slightly bowed out, I was happy since it was my first time.

I came 2 days lator to look at it, and the sides are bowed IN! It doesn't look the best now, but I guess I will have to deal with it.

Does Anybody know what happend? Should I have put more foam in?

Thanks
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Old 08-17-2006, 10:32 PM
  #2075  
L0stS0ul
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Location: Ashburn, VA
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Default RE: ParkZone P-51 Mustang RTF

Wow the replacement airframe is on sale for $79... I might need to pick another one up...

I'm hoping to have a brand new P-38 on the way within the next month...

EDIT: I'll be darned... The replacement airframe is only $80 now and it's not on sale. That's a deal I think on it.
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