FlyinHigh78

I just want to say Hello and I new to this forum. I just purchased my first electric, the GWS P-51d. Well I guess I did not do enough research and did not know it was styrafoam. Is their any way to make this bird strong? It seems like any crash would do it in. I am new to electric but I have been flying nitro for about a year and I do not want the mustang to give me a bad taste of electric.

However I do have some other questions and I am sorry I have not done any search so please forgive me if I bring up a beat horse. I also bought the 400c-d motor extra, I was wondering if the stock esc would power it?

When I power the motor to full power it dies. Is it because my trim is too high.

Last question. It came with the Nm-hm?? battery and was wondering if my hobbico quick feild charger would charge it?

Thanks for the help.

Vinny

geo8498

Reinforce the inside of the fuselage with epoxy and fiberglass. The weakest part on the mustang is right above the wing. It's not a bad idea to glue a popsicle stick or similar inside the thin fuse area. Also coat the nose with epoxy.
Not sure about the ESC motor question.

You may want to experiment with either a Slow Stick or Beaver for your first electric. That way you can get a feel for power management before committing your more expensive Mustang to the air. I had 2 Mustangs, flew each for a year. Each one was finally done in solely for the reason of low power. Keep those batteries juiced up. The Mustang really likes speed. If she doesn't have that speed, she will hobble around before you gain a safe altitude, and this is when you will be in most danger of crashing it. Best performance with it is with a brushless motor and 3 cell lipo. You can probably fly it comfortably with a properly geared 400 brushed and a good NIMH or Lipo.

Like I said, if you bash around with a $35 Slow Stick or Beaver, you can get a good idea of the endurance of your batteries and motor power. They can be fixed very easily too.

Jagzilla

I would be very careful in the amount of weight you add to the plane when you start doing mods. The mustang is very unforgiving of being overweight. I would go at an absolute not over 18 oz's in full flying trim. This plane will literally drop out of the sky if it's too heavy and not flying fast enough. The problem is if it's overweight, you'll have to land it very fast to prevent the dreaded tip stall from happening. Having said that, built properly it's an excellent flyer, very fast and aerobatic.

You could check the trim setting on your throttle setting, but I'm guessing your batteries aren't putting out enough voltage, and the low voltage control of the esc is kicking in and this is why your motor is dying. I would highly recommend getting a 3 cell lipo battery to fly this plane with. The extra power, and lighter weight of the battery will really work in your favor. Just hollow out more of the battery compartment foam to make a lipo fit, and more importantly, be able to slide far foward to help you get the cog correct, while the fuselage is still in two halves, before you glue it together.
Not sure on your chargers capabilities, so you'll have to check further on that.

Build the plane light, and go have fun. Do not underestimate both the strenght, and ease of repair of foamies.
J

FlyinHigh78

Hey thanks for the fast replies. The only bad thing is I already glued the two halves before I posted this. I did a volt check on battery and it is at 8.6 vdc but I have no way to measure current since that is what moves voltage. Oh well I guess I will have ti find a charger because mine does not seem to charge it. Again thanks for the advice.

Vinny

RickAvery

First let me say that the experience I have with GWS planes are with the A-10, Tiger moth 400, Corsair, & a Mustang currently under construction. This also is not a bash on GWS as I believe they are inexpensive, generally well thought out, easily constructed, usually under-powered in stock trim, close to scale models. Their customer service has been great. I have not purchased my last GWS product as I have my eye on the P-40, & I’m waiting for a P-38. That said, and with the experience with the models mentioned above, I think ‘They ALL need reinforcing and more power’. Don’t get me wrong, they will fly if built just as the directions say and will last if all landings are greasy SMOOTH. In the real world of my capabilities, this is not possible. I’ve built all of my GWS planes to be outfitted with brushless LiPo power from the get go. And I’ve reinforced all fuselages, wings & horiz. Stabs with carbon fiber rods or tubes. Every fuselage half gets a 1/8� CF tube to add unidirectional stiffness. Each main wing gets a CF flat rod or ribbon embedded in the underside from tip to tip when possible. And each horiz stab gets a small CF rod embedded. As mentioned in a previous reply, the weak point on your/my mustang will be the wing saddle, the thinnest part of the fuse. I also found this to be the case with the A-10. A trick I found with the A-10 was to put some unidirectional carbon fiber strip on the two sides of the fuse where the wing meets the fuse. The stuff I found is made from a carbon fiber matrix, not the long strand stuff, which is held together with a bonding agent of some type. The dimensions are aprox. 0.5� X 0.015� X 3’. Comes rolled up in a two pack. Adding this to the fuse will greatly strengthen this area of your fuse. Fiber glassing the components as mentioned above will add a lot of strength, but, if you should really lawn dart your plane into the deck, and suffer major damage, it can make repairing very difficult. Adding all this reinforcement ups the dreaded weight factor making flying with the stock power plants difficult. Hope this helps you a bit. Good luck!
Rick

marksmu

I would definently go with a 3s Lipo and a brushless...Im new to this whole game of electrics, but I had a 370 brushless on a 3s lipo, and it flew great, until my ESC burned up, not my fault...and Castle is replacing it for free...but I got impatient and loaded the stock 400 brushed that came with it, and my older 25Amp ESC into this bird, and tried it today, and it got airborne, couldnt get up to a fast enough speed, and dropped out of teh sky like a rock. The landing was not gentle by any means. The fuse broke in half, but is easily fixed...so sturdy no, but repairable oh ya!

I would highly reccoment a lipo and a brushless for anything you do with GWS because in my few flights 20 or so, withthe lipo, and brushelss and my 1 flight with the brushed stock motor...the stock just isnt enough to keep the plane in the air...the smallest movements sent it straight down.

Just my 2 cents.

geo8498

To compensate for added weight of epoxy and reinforcing, I also strategically thinned out some of the foam in the rear of the fuse. Most GWS planes I've flown tend toward the tail heavy side also.

Most of the stress that comes during less than smooth landings results in fractures at the wing saddle. And for those really bad "landings", the nose can be vunerable.

Jagzilla

My experience is that wing saddle breaks, and at the rear of fuselage etc. are very easily repaired. 5 min. epoxy and you're back in the game. The problems with repairing and getting the "looks" back begin when the plane noses in, and the foam in the front gets all "compressed" and broken up. "Mushed" foam can't be repaired very well. For what very neglible weight savings you might get, I wouldn't be bothered with sanding down the foam on the rear of the plane.

In all honesty, the more of these planes I build, the more I think that you have to build light, and not crash in the first place. Build them to fly, not to survive crashes. If you aren't able to land them well, and fly them without loosing orientation etc, perhaps you aren't quite ready to fly them yet is how I feel. Other than carbon fibre tape on the wings (only needed on high speed brushless setups for wing flex), I no longer bother reinforcing any other area of the plane.

I'm sure others will disagree, but that's my story these days.
J

marksmu

I agree with the tail heavyness of the planes...I have a Zero as well from GWS, and I cannot get the CG far enough forward when Im using a Lipo and brushless setup...it just doesnt weigh enough. Ive had to use the added puddy to get some weight into the front of the plane. I assume thats what the puddy sticks are for on these planes, because otherwise I see no use for them.

Anyone else ever use it?

RickAvery

Jagzilla,
Well I would have to agree to some of your observations i.e. ‘build it light’ ‘don’t fly planes TOO far over your abilities’ Good points. On the other hand, the easy fix of the wing saddles with 5min epoxy, while true, is un-necessary with a small bit of prevention built in. And, at some point in each pilots learning and gaining experience in flying more difficult models, one has to try the more difficult model. While no amount of CF is going to save your plane if you stick it in the ground like a javelin, reinforcing the commonly known weak spots on these models can mean the difference between putting in another battery pack, or packing up to head home for repairs. Also, each pilots flying situation is different. In my case, I have to hand launch and belly land ALL of my planes/wings. No landing gear allowed. My strip is a smooth but hard pack dirt runway. No cushy grass fields or parks for my fleet. As in the case of the A-10, even darn nice landings rendered wing saddle cracks and nacelles popping off in stock trim. For my situation and abilities, I find a bit of preventative reinforcement built in allows for maximum fly time and minimal repair time which for me = the biggest fun factor. Happy flying to you all!
Rick

Flypaper 2

I'm with Jag, build it light. My Zero is two yrs old and always belly landed. Just epoxy or hot glue will put it together after an " incident Friend of mine and I had a midair between his Corsair and the Zero,both kept flying, saw something flutter down, thought it was my canopy. Did a flyby and the canopy was still on it. He said the Corsair didn't have quite as much elevator control. He did a flyby and noticed the right stab, elevator was missing!! I made one for him out of blue foam. This was last year and they're both still flying. We just don't chase each other quite so aggressively, well, at least most of the time.

RickAvery

Flypaper2,
Great mid air story. Love the ‘slow fly-bys to check for missing pieces’ LOL. I to have a mid air story. My bro-in-law and I were out, he with his brushless e-zipper 36� wing, & I with the A-10. We weren’t chasing each other this time but he pulled a big vert spiral as I happened to be overhead. The zipper clipped the left wing tip of the A-10 bending it up at about a 30 deg angle. It took full left aileron to get straight flight & too much straight or any right aileron would send the A-10 into a downward spin. Was able to bring her in with a wide right turn and land without any further damage. The point is that without the flat carbon fiber spar imbedded in the wing tip to tip, the left wing would have broken off at the landing gear pod & all would have been lost. The darn zipper didn’t have a scratch! Great hobby!!!
Rick

Flypaper 2

Rick:
Gotta love these foamies for next to indestuctable. Yours sounds like the real Warthog. Saw on video one that came back from a mission with the right wing leading edge missing back to the spar with all the hydraulic lines, wiring hanging out. Six ft. sq. top wing outer sheeting missing and right tire flat. Pilot said " if it had of been anything else" and kissed the side of it.

Uncas

My Feedback: (1)

Make sure you have a good power system.

Not all NiMH batteries are created equal, only some will produce the current you need due to internal battery resistance. I highly recommend KAN bateries if you are going with Nimh technology. I get mine from cheapbatterypacks.com.

You also need an esc that can deliver the current. I would get a 20 amp esc and recommend the Pixie20p.

Finally get a recommendation on the prop size - GWS has some tables that match prop size to gearing. For my smaller EPS 350 I use a 12 x 6. With my 350 setup I ran an 8 cell nimh, it drew 13 amps and the voltage dipped to 7.3 volts at full load and developed 17 - 18 oz thrust.

The electric power system are a bit more complex than glo and if you brushless and Lipo, more expensive too.

Good Luck!

clovus

Love the stories about the A-10's.

My first low wing aileron plane was the GWS mustang...sure looked good.... on the table. I also found it was underpowered and could've benefitied from being built lighter. I didn't get one successful flight ,just practice at repairs....it sure is suprising how much damage you can do and how many bits you end up with that all go back together...unless the foam is too compressed.

I second the power upgrade as you don't want to fly too slow and I feel its better to have plenty of juice to help get you up 2 mistakes high. If you cut out the black sticker on the nose you can relocate your battery further forwards to help with the COG esp. if you go to lipo.

Flypaper 2

A good power combination is the Himax 2025- 4200 and TP 2100 batt. Unlimited vertical and 40 to 50 mph level flight speed. A hacksaw blade on it's side can be used to enlarge the batt opening for the 2100 size. Would lite the Mustang right up!!

marksmu

What someone who hasnt flown one doesnt know is to cut the battery comparatment out before you glue it all together otherwise you have to compress the foam to get your battery to fit....and that just makes it break quicker...I had a Mustang and my lipo burned up, so I had to get a new one, and I got a bigger one so I could fly more and when you put a bigger one in and compress the foam for the fit, when it hits the ground nose first on a bad landing the battery will rip right out of the plane.

sucks having to put that back together....I find rubber bands on the nose will hold the battery in better though and prevent it from coming out the nose.

Just a few tips I found useful.

Id like to get GWS stats on their props, where did you find that?

RickAvery

Clovus,
Well now goggone! You’re stressing me out man!!! LOL. Not one flight with your mustang!! I can fully relate to the repair practice as the A-10 was quite the learning curve for me in the launch department. I destroyed the nose from the cockpit forward several times and was also amazed at how I was able to repair it with the pocket full of pieces I’d bring back. It’s now a daily flier. I’m just finishing my mustang up and now you tell us not even one flight!!! LOL again!!! I’ve lurked through as many threads as I could on the mustang, most saying that it’s not the easiest plane to fly, but once the launching technique is figured out, a fun unit. I hope to maiden this weekend. I’ve tried to give myself the greatest chance of success by putting in a big ole LiPo powered motor so lack of power shouldn’t be a problem. It’s just those first throw jitters I guess. Exciting and scary at the same time. And, I’d just as soon not bone up on my repair techniques any time soon!! LOL. Have a good weekend.
Rick

clovus

Hey Rick,

I should've mentioned it was the first low wing aileron plane I had... the funny thing is the guy of my LHS expressed some reservations about me being abel to fly it but I could fly inverted, loop and roll my first plane so I wrongly assumed I was at the intermediate level it said on the box. besides it looked so hot how could anyone resist?

Looking back with hindsight I probably should've waited and got some aileron experience first (I bought the funny park next and it was so easy- same with the tigermoth 400). All this talk of the mustang makes me think it's now time....

RickAvery

Vinny,
I sure hope the discussion here has helped you out with some of your questions. As for the motor cutting out, it could be a couple of things & usually one of two, 1- you're drawing too much current through your ESC, or 2-you're drawing too much current for the battery to handel. Do you have a watt meter? They're great tools that allow you to really put your finger on the pulse of your electrical system. I'm not familiar with the hobbico charger, and don't know how many cells you're trying to charge, but be careful of chargers that do not detect the peak charge of your battery. Many are just a timer based units and you can eaisly overcharge and damage your battery. They do work however when properly monitored. Check for the number of cells the charger is rated for and stay within those limits. Another trick I've found useful when building GWS models is to pre-assemble as much of the plane as possible holding everything together with tape and check the CoG. This way you can see if moving components to different locations will get the correct CoG without having to add dead weight to balance. I know you've already glued your fuse halves together but try it on your next model and you can still play with the location of the Rx & ESC. This is especially helpful if you are going to deviate from the OEM set up as in different motors and or batteries. Best of luck!
Rick

Airbourne in Japan

My Feedback: (3)

what c of g would you guys recommend for the mustang ?

Cptn. Krunch

I have an old GWS Mustang, I say old because this frame has seen a lot of airtime. The first thing I did was run a carbon stringer from the tip to the tail on either side of the wing saddle. I also taped the whole wing and fuse after painting. My AUW with a Himax 2015-4100 and 3 cell 1200 lipo is 14 oz. I did sand a bit of washout into the wingtip but this bird is really fun. If you build it light it can take some major punishment. Here she is
Foamio

The Rook

Hey all,
I just got the C-130 Quad motor. It is my first GWS plane and my first foam build. I was wondering what the best battery/esc combo would be to maximize the power with the stock four edp-50 motors. I don't want to get four new brushless motors for it (if I even can), so I just want the most powerful stock setup.
Does anyone have any experience with the C-130?
Thanks,
J

Airbourne in Japan

My Feedback: (3)

if you wanted brushless, the cheapest 4 motor 4 esc combo would be the arc motors from litflight. i was considering doing this and may do in the future, as i am going to build my c130 over the winter. however, i have bought 4x180 and 4x280 brushed motors for it and i think that will do along with a 30 amp esc. should be a fun plane. i want to have the rear ramp open and drop out a Saddam doll at some point !!

painted my p51 yesterday and got my first real look at it. it's got a very weak wing and the fus is only just ok. the problem is gws put broad, wide panel lines into it and this weakens everything. i think i'll use some cf rods in the wing and fuselage and fill some of the panel lines in with epoxy. otherwise, i should be able to make this a fast plane with room for a thunder power 2100mah 3 cell 15c battery, himax 2025-5300 with 4.4 gearing and a 9x10 prop. should be a screamer !!

The Rook

I tried a google search for the arc motors, but didn't find them. Could you provide a link or address? I would still like to stay with the stock motor setup-if it will have enough power. I've heard the many complaints about GWS being underpowered. I'm such an idiot when it comes to electrics! I would just like to find the most powerful battery/esc combo. With so many more planes to buy, I don't want to spend a lot on any one plane!!!!

Where can I buy the carbon fiber rods/ strips?
Thanks,
J