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  1. #1
    shauntot's Avatar
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    Shun Da Piper Cub J3

    Hi people! Anybody else flying the Shun Da version of the Piper Cub J3? Any mods made, pics and instructions would be great I'll be posting some of mine as soon as I complete my landing gear reinforcement using carbon rods. Hope to see your posts! Thanks!

    Shaun

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    RE: Shun Da Piper Cub J3

    Hi Shaun,

    Greetings from a fellow Pinoy in the U.S. Yes, I also have the SDM J3 Cub and love to go flying whenever wind and schedule allow. I haven't done anything to hop it up yet as I am just returning to R/C after a long hiatus. I find that the stock set-up is o.k. for me and have two extra batts to extend my flying time.

    I also have a ParkZone Cub and a PZ Decathlon, and have fun with those as well (albeit for much more money).

    Although the ShunDa radio seems 'cheap' in construction, I prefer the two-stick set-up as opposed to single stick radio from PZ. I like that separating rudder and elevator functions gives me a little more control without the R/E coupling that my clumsy fingers always seem to be subjecting the PZ models to on a single stick array. (Yes, I have removed the jumper that provides electronic coupling on PZ receivers!)

    Have you tried any aerobatics w/ your Cub? I have a blast performing loops and rolls, stall turns, etc. with mine.

    What is your average batt life on stock batt? I get anywhere between 5-7 minutes if I fly WOT, and maybe 8 minutes with throttle management.

    Keep 'em flying,

    Joel
    \'Scuse me while I kiss the sky!!

  3. #3
    shauntot's Avatar
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    RE: Shun Da Piper Cub J3

    Hi Joel!

    Wow, this is nice, first answer to my post is a kababayan! Your name sounds familiar, I think the moderator of one of the RC forums here in the Phil (tee.homanga.com) showed me a pic of you with a huge cessna 182, I think he did mention that the name was Joel. One and the same sir?

    Nice to hear you also have a sdm cub. actually i just got mine last weekend and i only maidened it last sunday, just 2 flights though as evening caught up with me (my first ever with rc planes). Although I haven't any other planes to compare it to yet, I was so pleased with the easy way it handled, so relaxing even

    Now that I've followed the PZ piper thread extensively and borrowed some ideas, I'm planning to soup up my sdm cub bit by bit, I've just purchased 2 in. GWS foamies for the front LG and a .5 in foam tail wheel, to enable me to ROG. I've tried it with the stock setup but all I get to do is donuts with the little plastic tailwheel

    I'm also buying carbon fiber rods tomorrow to reinforce the landing gear for those especially hard newbie landings, although luckily, I haven't experienced them yet in my 2 flights.

    I'll post pics as soon as I install the front LG and a custom tailwheel as the stock plastic one just won't hack it.


    As for the aerobatics, no I haven't tried them yet, as I mentioned, I only have 2 flights under my belt and I don't have the guts yet. Although I'm surprised if your SDM cub could do loops and rolls already on a stock setup, as if memory serves me, what I reckon on the PZ cub thread, the PZ cub can't unless you change the motor and the prop. If this is so, then the Shun Da cub is more powerful than the PZ cub? (do correct me please if I'm wrong).

    I also flew around 5-7 mins WOT, only got to go half-throttle for about 10 seconds but it was mostly WOT for the 2 flights.

    Mabuhay!
    Shaun

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    RE: Shun Da Piper Cub J3

    Hey Shaun,

    I emailed James from GiantSunToys and from what I understand, LiPo can't be used unless we switch out esc. Not knowing what type of radio comes with the Cub (sorta looks kinda like a Futaba attack?) I am reluctant to try such a drastic mod. I don't like playing with soldering irons, esp. near styrofoam!

    I'm going to order some extra batts and props--also drop by my LHS to see if they have the new multiplex multi-charger that was in this month's edition of Model Airplane News. 2-line lcd display, ni-cd, ni-mh, and 1-3 cell Li-Po, all for under $100...

    How's the hobby situation there in the P.I.? I remember going back there when I was a kid and picking up a Tamiya Super Shot ready-built for well under what I would have paid in the US.

    Maybe tag Glacier Girl and see what he has to say about using 2-cell Li-Po w/out having to change out ESC and reset cutoff voltages...Whoa, this is getting to be too much like real work!

    Cheers,
    Joel
    \'Scuse me while I kiss the sky!!

  5. #5
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    RE: Shun Da Piper Cub J3

    Hi Joel,

    So you know James..great guy and very helpful..anyway, I just ordered 2 sets of tail assy. and a main wing from him, as of now there's a shortage of stock here in Lil's Hobby shop (not sure if you remember Lil's)where I bought the cub.


    I already asked Glacier, he said it was ok to use lipos without burning the esc and stock motor, but I'm not gonna try it anyway as I have no lipos yet. What I'm doing is getting some 1050mah NICDs from a guy here in the forums, that should extend my flying time for the mean time until I get lipos.

    I just swapped out my stock prop to an APC 8x6 but I haven't flown it with that yet, gonna try this weekend. I also got 2 in. front gear now and a nice .5 tailwheel from a LHS that is WAY CHEAPER than Lils that should, in theory and what I gather from what the PZ cub people are doing, allow me to ROG instead of do donuts on the ground

    Hey, what a coincidence, I've been searching for a decent all around batt pack charger and I've been comparing the Multiplex LN5014 to a Swallow Advance charger (Php 6000) here, they have exactly identical specs, except that the Swallow does trickle mode after peaking LiPos/NiCd/MH/all, the Multi can do the same except for the LiPos. Little difference in the price tag, about $20 only.

    Hobby situation here is not booming, but definitely, there are now more LHS, more clubs and more tracks and airfields when you were back here. I hope this is ok (for the moderators), try going to rtech.net, then go to the forums, scroll down a bit before the page ends and look for Manila Racers in the International Forums. Look for "RC Flight", you'll see all the pinoys with there toys

    Shaun

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    RE: Shun Da Piper Cub J3

    Hey Shaun,

    Where are you getting 1050 mah nicd from? Would love to be able to access those...Almost double flight time, if the 1050mah rating is true. I'm still flying with stock prop and batteries, getting anywhere from 6-8 min/flight. Here in Vegas, local altitude is approx 2000 ft. above sea level, and unless I find a small thermal, I fly WOT to maintain airspeed and altitude. I have been able to extend to 10 min with some thermal hunting, but it's nowhere near as much fun as performing loops and rolls !

    Regarding prop, are you using APC or GWS? Do you have to use an adaptor? My biggest worry is burning out motor and then having to solder new one with clumsy fingers [:'(]. I have checked out the small parkflyer props from GWS and I don't know if they'd be able to handle stress from direct-drive 380 motor. The APC props seem to be either too big or too heavy for the Cub; let me know what your plane flies like w/ your mods.

    Take care,
    Joel
    \'Scuse me while I kiss the sky!!

  7. #7
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    RE: Shun Da Piper Cub J3

    Joel,

    I'm getting the 1050 from a guy in CA, I'm not sure though if he has more batt packs. I'll try to ask him for you.

    I fitted and APC 8x6 prop, yeah, I had to use the adaptor that came with it. Hopefully it won't burn out the motor though Let you know after I test this weekend.

    Btw, what's the range on your cub (altitude and distances-wise?)

    Shaun

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    RE: Shun Da Piper Cub J3

    Hey Shaun,

    Furthest I've ever had the Cub away from me is an estimated 700+ feet. W/out an altimeter, ( and to be honest, I don't think the Cub can handle lifting an RCATS telemetry system), I've had it high enough so that I could barely see it. Maybe 400' altitude, 300' downrange. I probably fly normally between 200-250' (much higher than 100-ft-tall light towers for baseball field), so that I am at least 2 mistakes above the ground.

    How's your flying coming along? Tried any loops yet? How about rolls? Our 'trainer' plane is surprisingly very nimble, and I'm having fun just tearing up the sky with it. I even like it better than my ParkZone Decathlon, which was almost twice the price(!)

    Hopefully Shun-Da comes out with a Decathlon clone in red livery...I would be first in line to order it!

    Keep me posted on your flying and your mods,
    Joel
    \'Scuse me while I kiss the sky!!

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    RE: Shun Da Piper Cub J3

    Hey Joel,

    Thanks for the info about the range. Haven't gone up even to 100 ft. yet as I'm still on my 2nd flight from last week. Was hoping to do more flights today but it too windy, my frequency ribbon was going 90deg. or even more. Stupid me, was too excited to perform my first loop so I decided what the heck, I'll fly it anyway.

    Handlaunched it, got about 30 feet, wind caught it and plunged straight down into the grass. Good thing the only thing that was damaged was a bent prop, so I just replaced it. The landing gear shaft got so badly bent though as I landed left wheel first hard into the ground, then prop 2nd. I just straightened out the LG shaft, and then when I got home, prompted me to fashion a reinforcement out of carbon fiber rods.

    Btw, don't try the bigger props with the stock motor, like the APC 8x6 I tried. I'm gonna buy 1 new 480 motor tomorrow and see how that goes

    Here's the pic of the LG reinforcement I picked up from on the guys in RCU who did it on his PZ decathlon.


    Btw, how do you do your rolls with just rudder??

    Shaun
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    RE: Shun Da Piper Cub J3

    Hello Shaun,

    Thanks for info on props. I thought that all the props I had looked at would be either too big or too flimsy for a direct-drive 380 motor. Why are you stepping up to 480? Can the stock esc handle the increased amp draw from a 480-size?

    Did you ever get your 1050 mah batts? If you do, please fwd info asap so that I can enjoy longer flights as well...

    I perform my rolls by entering a shallow dive for airspeed, then applying up elevator. When the Cub is climbing, I apply either right or left rudder which induces a snap roll. It looks really cool from the ground, and if you have enough speed, you can pull two or three in a row!

    I then place the sticks into neutral which immediately stabilizes the Cub into level flight. Of course, this is all done at WOT...

    Just got a new toy from ParkFlyers.com. It's the Cessna 182 4-ch version, and I can't wait for wind to die down so that I can maiden it. Gorgeous plane, and a steal for less than $140 including shipping. Hopefully I'll be able to learn some true rolling maneuvers with this aileron ship, it's been 18 years since I've flown with ailerons. Since you're in P.I., the 'Art-Tech' version may be more accessable to you, go check it out!

    BTW, which multi-charger did you end up getting?
    Laters,
    Joel
    \'Scuse me while I kiss the sky!!

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    RE: Shun Da Piper Cub J3

    Hi Joel,

    I didn't go with the 480 direct drive as it might fry the ESC. What I did was put a 18:5:1 gearbox with 400 brushed. Along with a carbon-fiber 8x4 prop. Had to modify the cowling though, as the gearbox/motor combo was too long. I cut a bigger hole in the cowling to accomodate it, I'm just going to reinforce the cowling with packing tape for strength. Now it looks like a bit like gasser as the gearbox sticks out (I'll post pics later as they're still in my phone). Also changed the stock servos with GWS naro/bb micro servos which are a lot smaller and lighter, the lighter weight and more powerful motor should help me gain some authority over the damn wind (hopefully)

    Btw, as for the batts, I wanted to buy them off from KCTRADING (also a member here in RCU), prob is, I don't have a paypal account and he only accepts paypal. Go ahead and PM him, I believe he has 2 1050s and 2 600s all for $30. I'll just have our lhs make batt packs for me, just had a 650mah done yesterday for about $11.

    I was actually strongly contemplating on that cessna, because of the looks and nice reviews, it was supposed to be my first plane, but as my fiance just bought me the cub as a gift, I just figured it can wait.

    What I'm hounding now is either the World Models Cessna Skylane (very detailed, going to be my 1st balsa plane if ever) or the huge Magister Multiplex (I really like the idea of its readiness for conversion to gas because of it's sheer size, made of foam though).

    Thanks for the loop/roll tips, I'll definitely want to try them with my new setup this weekend hopefully..damn wind doensnt wanna die down

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    RE: Shun Da Piper Cub J3

    Hey dude,

    Gotcha on the prop combo. Didja fry your motor on one of the bigger props?

    I've seen the World Models Skylane up close, looks to be really pretty ship. Greg Covey (my favorite RCU reviewer) has one on the table...just waiting for flight reports.

    I also looked at Magister @ LHS, not really impressed even though it's such a big bird. Seems a little overpriced w/ the exception of the hobby-grade electronics. I like your idea of an electric-to-gas conversion though...would be an interesting article!!

    If I were to really get back into hobby like I used to be, my next ship will be the Hangar 9 PTS Mustang! Only $100 more than the Magister, better looking, trainer stable, and hop-ups (removable speed brakes, removable NACA wing-droops)built into the design! Only thing holding me back is the fact that I live in an apartment[8D]. I'm already using my guest bedroom as a model hangar, model garage, and model boat dock [X(]... My orange tabby Alex doesn't like the fact that on some days I pay more attention to my hobby than to him! He costs me money every time he gets ahold of any of my models[:@]. Must be something about foam that is irresistible to a cat!

    Keep 'em flying,
    Joel

    \'Scuse me while I kiss the sky!!

  13. #13
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    RE: Shun Da Piper Cub J3

    Hey Joel,

    No it didn't, the stock is still fine.. however, take a look at the pics below

    Couldnt resist when I went down to the LHS today, picked up a 400 9.6v motor with a 18:5 gearbox, replaced the stock servos with really small gws micros about 1/4 the size of the stock ones, put in a carbonfiber 8x4 prop, also removed the receiver and ESC covers to save a lot of weight.

    Had to modify the cowl though to fit the motor and the gearbox, I cut a bigger hole so the gearbox sticks out a bit, it now looks like a crazy glow plane because of the gearbox that's sticking out


    I don't have a digital scale so I can't really tell how much I removed, but IT IS a bit lighter I think (or is that just in my head) Added another 1.2 cell to my stock 650mah pack to accomodate the 400 motor...Gonna test it this weekend. Cant wait for the weekend..

    Were you able to talk to KCTRADING for the batt packs?

    Yeah, actually I saw Greg's review (he's by far the best reviewer for me), I'm just waiting for him to finish it and post vids, I hear his still busy with a 3day local rc convention in his place.

    Was playing with the magister parts at the lhs today, it was really HUGE!, I think the stab alone is about the whole wingspan of our piper already

    It's not that scale compared to the world models cessna but the size is really something to think about, and it's capability to be converted into a gasser as well. It even comes with 2 cowls, one for the electric motor and one for the glow engine. At $109 for the kit (no electronics, but why would you buy the RTF version at $300 if you already have a radio and some spare servos and motor), I think it's a pretty good buy.

    Shaun

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    RE: Shun Da Piper Cub J3

    Hey Shaun,

    Don't really have a radio or electronics laying around suitable for Magister. I've been digging around my parents' house looking for reminders of childhood and found an old Futaba 4-channel radio w/receiver & 4 large servos. It came out of my last gas plane which was an RPM Snark 20T, balsa arf w/ ailerons and O.S. .25 FP. It's been better than 18/19 years since I took the remains of the Snark home after a vicious crash w/ nothing left, and I'm gonna bring the radio over to LHS to see if the frequencies are still valid for use.

    No, haven't gotten in touch w/ KCtrading yet, but will buzz him soon as the itch for more flying time hits hard. I'd almost forgotten the addictive properties of this little hobby of ours, and I'm already contemplating buying an SUV to transport all my planes to the field!

    At most I can fit the Cub and one other plane into my little sedan, and it's been a combination of the Cub and the PZ Super Decathlon when and if I get the chance to fly. Weather hasn't exactly been cooperating lately w/ daytime temps of 106F(!) and even early morning and evening winds around 10-12 mph.

    According to most guys around RCU, however, my new Cessna should be able to handle winds like that with no problem. I will drag someone to the field soon w/ my digital camera and have some vid posts so that you can see the Cub twisting in the air.

    How tough was your 400+gearbox mod? Did your LHS have the gearbox and prop as a suggested combo? Did you have to solder on diodes to reduce emi/rfi? Can't wait to hear what flight improvements you get from these mods. I've been looking @ Du-Bro foam wheels @ LHS to replace dinky ones on the Cub. How did you attach your new wheels to the stock gear? Did you just use the little plastic end caps when you added wheels? One last question, I like what you did w/ carbon fiber rods to re-inforce your gear, did you add a plate to bottom of fuselage to attach CF rods?

    Can't wait for wind to die down,
    Joel
    \'Scuse me while I kiss the sky!!

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    RE: Shun Da Piper Cub J3

    Wow..gonna buy an SUV just for the planes?! You're really getting addicted again haha

    Yeah, get someone to video your cub, would like to see what it can do, I think I'm the only one here who has this thing and I'm raring to seen another SDM cub in the air.

    Yeah, the LHS recommended the combo, they said it wouldn't increase speed as much, but would definitely increase pulling power especially for winds because of the gearbox. The motor already had diodes attached, wouldn't know what those do..to be honest, coz this is just my first time with planes, I just trust the LHS because they're not unlike the other LHS (Lils) who just sells you anything even if you won't need it just to get money, for outrageous prices even. The new LHS also has knowledgeable staff so I trust them

    The 2 in. GWS wheels, the du-bro ones would fit just as wheel I guess, I just went with GWS because it's cheaper. No, I didnt use the yellow end caps as I lost one, so I had to cut a spare servo control horn so that I have only 2 holes left, I use that to lock the wheels in place with a bit of insta-glue. Already had about 5 really hard landings (twisted my gear badly), the wheel didn't come off so I guess it's ok.

    For the carbon rods, I used a dead credit card, cut a very little piece, enough to fit the 2 screws, punched a couple of holes in it, then shaved the fuselage a bit to fit the card flush, I had to carve a bit of foam out of the fuse so the card can be mounted, I feared that if I just stick the card on the fuse with just glue without the carving, it might just slide and get ripped out from fuse. If you want I can use my digicam to upload a clearer photo, I've just been using my fone coz it's faster to transfer to the PC.

    Alright?

    Shaun

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    RE: Shun Da Piper Cub J3

    Hey it's Giantguy.

    I finally found you Joel. Hangin in the Piper thread you were talking about starting.

    I see you are talking to Shaun.

    I owe him some Piper stock that will be leaving here this week bound for VA priority mail USPS to arrive before the 15th.

    Hey Shaun,

    If you need anything else let me know.

    Joel,

    I remember you asking me about using Lipoly batts. with the stock ESC but I might have mis-spoke. I believe that the Brushless motor must be accompanied by an ESC that is suited for brushless motors. I do not know if there is an issue with Lipoly batteries, although I do know they require a different type of charging circuit.

    Again, I am not certain because I do not do much modifying. I barely have time to actually get out and fly every once in a while.

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    RE: Shun Da Piper Cub J3

    Hey Fellas,

    Finally got in some flying early this morning! Tossed Cub in the still morning air and it took off like a scalded cat! Steady climb-out, got to altitude, and then some mild aerobatics.

    BTW, try not to fly exactly at sunrise, the tricky light made me lose some depth perception. I fly at a very large park area with layouts for 6 soccer fields and backstops for baseball diamonds at opposite corners. I hand launch and then try to land on the diamonds to prevent nose-overs, on my second flight misjudged distance due to light conditions and hit the wire fencing in front of dugout hard.

    Only damage was to prop! Switched props, checked everything else out, not even a wobble on propshaft. This is a really tough bird. Have over 25 flights since I replaced wing (Thanks James).

    Will try to fly again this afternoon with a cameraman so that I can finally post some vids of the flights.

    Keep 'em flying,
    Joel
    \'Scuse me while I kiss the sky!!

  18. #18
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    RE: Shun Da Piper Cub J3

    Lucky one Joel, good thing it was only the prop

    My cub's mods are finally done (I hope coz I've already spent almost as much as the price of the damn thing for the mods!) Anyway, can't wait to try out the new motor on Friday early morning. Will post feedback after..looking forward to your vids Joel

    Cheers
    Shaun

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    RE: Shun Da Piper Cub J3

    Hey Shaun,

    Just picked up a Shun Da clone off eBay for $50(couldn't resist, $30 plane, $20 s&h). Opened it up, and I'm very wary of the construction. Similar to our Cub, but linkages, etc. of very poor quality. The props were of a much larger size than the SDM props, but it may be because of the battery...Full-size AA w/ 1300 mAh(!). Feels much heavier than the stock SDM battery, I'm hoping it will even get off the ground with such a load in its belly.

    Put it together, and tried it with included radio...INSTANT GLITCHING!! Rather than using a decent x-mitter, this co. has taken el cheapo clone radios (Mode 1 w/throttle and rudder on right hand side) and used them for what should be a well-copied airframe. Looked inside plane, servos look o.k. Looks like ESC and receiver all on same main board. Gonna try it again later with a fully charged battery and hope for the best.

    I'm hoping that this impulse purchase doesn't come back and bite me on the *****.

    Wish me luck,
    Joel
    \'Scuse me while I kiss the sky!!

  20. #20
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    RE: Shun Da Piper Cub J3

    Joel..looks like a bad egg, but I sure hope not as it's 50 bucks bye bye. Let me know how it goes. Btw, did you get a cameraman already? Can't wait for those videos.

    Hey I tried breaking-in my new 400 motor today, ultra-slow-charged up full the 650mah (for about 6 hours!) and put the cub on the floor with me preventing it from running off. Put it on WOT and timed it from the start, no servos, just the throttle, it ran for only 3 mins! Yipes!

    Does that mean I'll have to dead stick this thing after only 3 mins in the air?? The motor won't come back on unless you press the kill switch (no way to do that when it's in the air). Help !

    shaun

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    RE: Shun Da Piper Cub J3

    Hey Shaun,

    Are these the new 650 mAh batts that you had LHS make up for you? If they are, you need to cycle them at least 3 times to get maximum optimal batt performance. Charge them normally, I believe the rate is 1C (650 mAh for 1 hour) and then run them down again.

    I don't have a multi-charger yet so all I do is slow charge and then run motor until batt dies. If you have a multi-function charger then you may want to use the cycling function.

    The impulse purchase did end up to be COMPLETELY defective [:@], but at least the vendor is going to refund my $ minus shipping. Oh well, lesson learned. Maybe I'll use the unit for spares or try to put diff electronics in. The tail feathers are garishly decaled with poor 'Engrish' but are the exact same size as the Shun Da. The wings are very interesting; slightly larger than ours. Haven't test-fitted them yet but will ck them out later today.

    The wind yesterday afternoon was gusting up to 20 mph, but today seems to be much calmer, knock wood. Hope to get my vids 2-day and post them ASAP.

    Let me know how your mods work out,
    Joel
    \'Scuse me while I kiss the sky!!

  22. #22
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    RE: Shun Da Piper Cub J3

    Joel,

    Yeah they are the new ones. Ok I didn't know it would need at least three cycles, I'll do that then. I can use the swallow's cycle features for that (you might want to get it, it's pretty nifty) take a look at the specs swallow advance charger

    good thing the seller has refund, and now you have a spare tail and wing to boot I'm just waiting for giantsuntoys replacement wing, as I'm planning on fixing my rudder and changing to aileron control! well at least if i screw it up, i'll have a spare wing

    lotsa people tried it with their pz cub and all seems well, so since i'm doing mods, what the heck..

    gonna try flying later around 7am, hope there's no wind..no video as i have no cameraman though. will just let you know how the new motor turns out

    cheers
    shaun

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    RE: Shun Da Piper Cub J3

    Hey Shaun,

    Wow, I almost forgot that it's 1 a.m. for you over there...

    My parents just returned last week from PI so I should have taken that into consideration. Where in Manila are you? We have a condo next to the Shang and are awaiting build-out of another one in Eastwood, should be done 2K6 pinoy time (maybe 2007 real-time.)

    Mom and Dad are re-building the old homestead in the provinces and held a huge party for house blessing. They're probably going back again in October and again for X-mas. Hopefully I'll be able to join them for the holidays, it's been too long since I've been home.

    Did your GWS servos match the SDM receiver perfectly? How do you propose to add aileron function? Will you use single servo in fuse or 2 micro servos (1 on each wing)?

    Cheers,
    Joel
    \'Scuse me while I kiss the sky!!

  24. #24
    shauntot's Avatar
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    RE: Shun Da Piper Cub J3

    Joel,

    Too bad, if you'd have let me know, I could've pointed out the store for your parents so they could have bought it. Nice condo, upscale

    Nope the GWS servos are way too small (I used the NARO/BB servos), they're half the size of the stock ones. I just placed them far forward, and used only 1 screw, but I fastened securely with 3m doubletape. Pretty snug.

    The PZ cub people are doing 1 fuse servo and making the rudder permanent, so I guess I'll be going that way as it's my 1st major mod. But I wont be doing that until the new wing gets here, just in case I screw it up

    Still waiting for your vids

    Damn, it's 3am, I'm still up, and I have to wake up at 6 for some sticktime. Gotta go..cheers

    Shaun

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    RE: Shun Da Piper Cub J3

    Hey Shaun,

    What I meant to post was do the plugs from the GWS servos fit the SDM receiver?

    They must if you haven't changed anything else...

    G'night and have a pleasant tomorrow.

    Joel
    \'Scuse me while I kiss the sky!!


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