Flyzone Sky Fly
07-24-2007, 11:11 AM
#151
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RE: Flyzone Sky Fly
If you really want to do it, I'd suggest building an outrunner mount, and using one of the Tower Pro 2408-21 motors that are available all over the place on Ebay for about the same price as a typical brushed 380/400 motor. I have several of these motors that I use to fly my [link]http://www.mugi.co.uk[/link]Mugi Evos, and the performance is great, especially for the price. With an APC 6X5.5 prop, they pull around 10 amps, compared to the 20 that a brushed 400 pulls, which means double the flight time on a given battery. The outrunner has far more torque than the brushed motors do also, which translates into far more vertical performance and much shorter take off run. I don't think the speed would be increased too dramatically, but the flight times with a 2200 lipo would be phenomenal and consecutive loops would be no problem at all.
I'm curious as to what the kv rating of your motor is, since an extremely high kv motor wouldn't be able to turn the factory Sky Fly prop without melting itself, or the lipo, or the speed control into a puddle in rather short order, or just hogging out the slip on center of the prop itself. Most of the little 380 sized brushless motors I've seen are on the order of the Walkeras and such, and are designed to power helicopters on an extreme gear drive so they're usually up in the 4000 to 5500 kv range. It's unlikely that you'd find a prop small enough to give you an amp draw that was manageable in a direct drive configuration with a motor like that. Let me know how your project turns out at any rate, just be sure to check your motor and prop combo with an amp meter before you rip your plane apart. I'm thinking you'll probably come up with some numbers that will scare you into at least a different power plant. I've seen motors like that push small delta wings to speeds over 100 MPH, and you can bet that a Sky Fly wing wouldn't handle that sort of stress.
I'm curious as to what the kv rating of your motor is, since an extremely high kv motor wouldn't be able to turn the factory Sky Fly prop without melting itself, or the lipo, or the speed control into a puddle in rather short order, or just hogging out the slip on center of the prop itself. Most of the little 380 sized brushless motors I've seen are on the order of the Walkeras and such, and are designed to power helicopters on an extreme gear drive so they're usually up in the 4000 to 5500 kv range. It's unlikely that you'd find a prop small enough to give you an amp draw that was manageable in a direct drive configuration with a motor like that. Let me know how your project turns out at any rate, just be sure to check your motor and prop combo with an amp meter before you rip your plane apart. I'm thinking you'll probably come up with some numbers that will scare you into at least a different power plant. I've seen motors like that push small delta wings to speeds over 100 MPH, and you can bet that a Sky Fly wing wouldn't handle that sort of stress.
07-24-2007, 05:44 PM
#152
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RE: Flyzone Sky Fly
Thanks raginredneck93 for your valuable comments - You probably saved me some cash. You are right, the motor I was looking at was rated at 3900Kv -ebay Item #3270127433213. I will go with your recommendation and install a Tower Pro 2408-21 motor. Afterall, my aim was to get longer flight times, with some performance gains, so flying into the wind wouldn't be a struggle. Was the Tower Pro 2408-21 just a guide, or do you think this is the best one to install on the skyfly ? I notice the motor shaft diameter is 3mm, alittle larger than stock motor (2.2mm) - I could drill out my stock prop slightly, or spin the motor with a bit of sand-paper rubbing it and reduce the shaft diameter slightly ? Which option would you recommend, or should I just buy a different prop that fits the new 3mm shaft ? I live in Australia, and imported 2 SkyFlys from the Tower Hobbies - USA. I find them great flyers and really forgiving and easy to fly. Last weekend I went for my 5th skyfly flight, and actually caught it in one hand while landing... I'd like to show everyone (with your help), that these models can be upgraded for long flights and mild arcobatics. Thanks again fro your comments.
07-24-2007, 06:50 PM
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RE: Flyzone Sky Fly
Does anyone know if the RPM of the stock 380 SkyFly Motor is over 10,000 rpm ?
I am having issues trying to fit a 3 cell/2200mah Li-po into the Skyfly due to weight (they all seem to be around 150g) - Stock SkyFly battery is apporx. 120g. I can go down to nicely sized 2-cell/2900mah li-po at 117g, but will reduce voltage to 7.4v. All this equates to a 1380kV brushless motor either spinning at 10,212 rpm (at 7.4v), or the same motor spinning at 15,318 rpm (at 11.1v). I am not sure which voltage would be best ? I'd be happy with 7.4v (if the stock motor currently spins < 10,000 rpm).
I am having issues trying to fit a 3 cell/2200mah Li-po into the Skyfly due to weight (they all seem to be around 150g) - Stock SkyFly battery is apporx. 120g. I can go down to nicely sized 2-cell/2900mah li-po at 117g, but will reduce voltage to 7.4v. All this equates to a 1380kV brushless motor either spinning at 10,212 rpm (at 7.4v), or the same motor spinning at 15,318 rpm (at 11.1v). I am not sure which voltage would be best ? I'd be happy with 7.4v (if the stock motor currently spins < 10,000 rpm).
07-25-2007, 08:49 AM
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RE: Flyzone Sky Fly
Lambodave, the reason I recommend the 2408-21 is simply because I have experience with this particular motor, and I know its power output to be quite similar to a brushed Speed 400, only with half of the power consumption, far more torque, and all at a significant weight savings. I have no doubt that there may be better choices out there, but for the money I doubt that the 2408-21 could be beat when one looks at the entire package. A person would have to fashion an outrunner mount in order to use one, but I doubt it would be too difficult. I assure you that it wouldn't be any more difficult than fabricating mounts for standard radio gear inside the Sky Fly fuselage.
I was unable to find the motor that you refer to, possibly missed a digit or something in the item #, but I have a sneaking suspicion that I know exactly which motor to which you refer. If we are thinking of the same motor, then I have experience with that one as well and can assure you that it would likely be a very poor choice for a Sky Fly. I have two motors that I bought on ebay, 28mm cans, 3800 kv, sold as a hop up motor for a T-Rex heli, chrome can with gold end caps, but no name whatsoever. If these are the ones you're looking at, they're phenomenal, but not for a Sky Fly. I've used these motors on the aforementioned Mugi Evo delta wings and attained speeds in excess of 100 MPH with them, but that was with a 4.75X4.75 prop, which is far smaller than the factory Sky Fly prop, and even at that the motor was pulling in excess of 30 amps. This configuration was all about blistering speed, flight times weren't a consideration and weren't impressive either with that kind of power consumption. The blistering speeds were delivered and then some. I have no doubt in my mind that the pitch speeds attained by a power combo such as this would literally rip the wings right off of a Sky Fly, and even if it didn't the tail would flutter so badly that it would lose control and eat dirt in pretty short order. There's a reason why planes that are designed for all out speed look entirely different than planes that are designed for stable and predictable flight, and it's not just about looking cool. I wouldn't suggest trying to convert your Sky Fly into a pylon racer, it just doesn't have the stuff for it.
As far as the factory prop, I'd suggest firmly attaching it to the stock 380 motor shaft . . . . . . and leaving it there.
When I use the TP motors on my Mugi Evos, I cut the shaft off at the base of the threads, then attach the prop via an inexpensive collet type 3mm prop adapter. Since I cut the shaft down as short as possible, it greatly lessens the chances that the shaft will get bent on landing since an Evo doesn't have landing gear and prop strikes are inevitable. Since a Sky Fly has the motor in a high mounted pusher configuration however, a person might have great luck just using the shaft the way it's intended and mounting the prop via the threaded shaft with nuts and washers on both sides. Either way will work probably equally as well, but I'd venture to say that the prop adapter would look a little nicer. I'd suggest starting with an APC 6X5.5 prop, then possibly working your way up if want a little more power, or down if you find the power to be sufficient and want a little more flight time. At my altitude (about 3600 ft) I've found this combination to pull about 9.5 amps on my little Thunder Power 1320 3 cell batteries, although your results may differ slightly considering that you're in Australia and likely at a lower elevation.
As far as a battery is concerned, I'd stick with a 3 cell, since a 2 cell would require a significantly larger prop in order to get similar performance, and it likely wouldn't clear the tail boom. Since the power consumption is so low however, you should be fine with just about anything over 900 or 1000 mAh, but I'd try to get the weight somewhere where you wouldn't need to add nose weight in order to balance the plane. Better to use the battery as ballast and get as much flight time as possible rather than end up right where you started and packing a bunch of lead around as dead weight. Keep in mind also that the TP motor is a fair little bit lighter than the brushed 380 that you'll be replacing, so the plane will be able to easily stand a little more weight in the battery department, but you might have to get a little creative and mount it further back in order to maintain the CG. If you kept the radio gear low in the fuselage, it would be a piece of cake to add a shelf of plywood or foam or whatever to place the battery over top of it and closer to the center of the wing for balance if it were too heavy to go all the way up front. I'd probably go with the biggest battery that would physically fit as long as balance would be attainable, especially if your goal is longer flight times. How the weight of the radio gear would compare I don't know, but I'd have to guess that it would be pretty close although placement of the components could have a slight effect on balance as well.
I like your reasoning regarding motor RPM, but keep in mind that the kv rating of a motor tells you approximately how fast it will spin with NO LOAD. You can't say that a 1380 kv motor will spin such and such RPM, because that will change depending on which prop you're using. Since the torque output of a brushless outrunner is entirely different (much much higher actually) than the torque output of a brushed 380, even with the same prop their speeds would likely vary greatly from one another. The best prop will be a trial and error affair, although I'd guess that a 6X5.5 on a TP 2408-21 with a 3 cell would fly the Sky Fly wonderfully. With a 2200 mAh 3 cell, it'll likely fly the Sky Fly until you're tired of flying it as well, and provided you can do so without hitting the tail boom, you can always go to a larger/higher pitch prop if you want more power. I've had up to an 8X6 prop on the little TP motors, and found the power consumption to be still well within acceptable range - about 15 amps on a 3 cell.
Good luck, and let me know about your progress. Hopefully I'll get around to my planned Sky Fly mod soon. I'm planning on mapping out the connections on the factory Sky Fly electronics, then attempting to remove the receiver section and wire in a Spektrum receiver while retaining the factory "servos" and ESC. That way I can use the plane to teach my kids how to fly without worrying about getting shot down, and it'll also be equipped for a trainer cord. I've got plenty of other planes to fool around with so I have no intentions of drastically improving the performance of my Sky Fly, but a little more dependable RF link would be a nice addition as well as the trainer cord feature. If my factory electronics were to ever bite the dust however, you can bet that MY Sky Fly would be equipped with a 2408-21 and a lipo in pretty short order, and that's a large part of the reason why I'm curious as to how your project turns out.
I was unable to find the motor that you refer to, possibly missed a digit or something in the item #, but I have a sneaking suspicion that I know exactly which motor to which you refer. If we are thinking of the same motor, then I have experience with that one as well and can assure you that it would likely be a very poor choice for a Sky Fly. I have two motors that I bought on ebay, 28mm cans, 3800 kv, sold as a hop up motor for a T-Rex heli, chrome can with gold end caps, but no name whatsoever. If these are the ones you're looking at, they're phenomenal, but not for a Sky Fly. I've used these motors on the aforementioned Mugi Evo delta wings and attained speeds in excess of 100 MPH with them, but that was with a 4.75X4.75 prop, which is far smaller than the factory Sky Fly prop, and even at that the motor was pulling in excess of 30 amps. This configuration was all about blistering speed, flight times weren't a consideration and weren't impressive either with that kind of power consumption. The blistering speeds were delivered and then some. I have no doubt in my mind that the pitch speeds attained by a power combo such as this would literally rip the wings right off of a Sky Fly, and even if it didn't the tail would flutter so badly that it would lose control and eat dirt in pretty short order. There's a reason why planes that are designed for all out speed look entirely different than planes that are designed for stable and predictable flight, and it's not just about looking cool. I wouldn't suggest trying to convert your Sky Fly into a pylon racer, it just doesn't have the stuff for it.
As far as the factory prop, I'd suggest firmly attaching it to the stock 380 motor shaft . . . . . . and leaving it there.
When I use the TP motors on my Mugi Evos, I cut the shaft off at the base of the threads, then attach the prop via an inexpensive collet type 3mm prop adapter. Since I cut the shaft down as short as possible, it greatly lessens the chances that the shaft will get bent on landing since an Evo doesn't have landing gear and prop strikes are inevitable. Since a Sky Fly has the motor in a high mounted pusher configuration however, a person might have great luck just using the shaft the way it's intended and mounting the prop via the threaded shaft with nuts and washers on both sides. Either way will work probably equally as well, but I'd venture to say that the prop adapter would look a little nicer. I'd suggest starting with an APC 6X5.5 prop, then possibly working your way up if want a little more power, or down if you find the power to be sufficient and want a little more flight time. At my altitude (about 3600 ft) I've found this combination to pull about 9.5 amps on my little Thunder Power 1320 3 cell batteries, although your results may differ slightly considering that you're in Australia and likely at a lower elevation.As far as a battery is concerned, I'd stick with a 3 cell, since a 2 cell would require a significantly larger prop in order to get similar performance, and it likely wouldn't clear the tail boom. Since the power consumption is so low however, you should be fine with just about anything over 900 or 1000 mAh, but I'd try to get the weight somewhere where you wouldn't need to add nose weight in order to balance the plane. Better to use the battery as ballast and get as much flight time as possible rather than end up right where you started and packing a bunch of lead around as dead weight. Keep in mind also that the TP motor is a fair little bit lighter than the brushed 380 that you'll be replacing, so the plane will be able to easily stand a little more weight in the battery department, but you might have to get a little creative and mount it further back in order to maintain the CG. If you kept the radio gear low in the fuselage, it would be a piece of cake to add a shelf of plywood or foam or whatever to place the battery over top of it and closer to the center of the wing for balance if it were too heavy to go all the way up front. I'd probably go with the biggest battery that would physically fit as long as balance would be attainable, especially if your goal is longer flight times. How the weight of the radio gear would compare I don't know, but I'd have to guess that it would be pretty close although placement of the components could have a slight effect on balance as well.
I like your reasoning regarding motor RPM, but keep in mind that the kv rating of a motor tells you approximately how fast it will spin with NO LOAD. You can't say that a 1380 kv motor will spin such and such RPM, because that will change depending on which prop you're using. Since the torque output of a brushless outrunner is entirely different (much much higher actually) than the torque output of a brushed 380, even with the same prop their speeds would likely vary greatly from one another. The best prop will be a trial and error affair, although I'd guess that a 6X5.5 on a TP 2408-21 with a 3 cell would fly the Sky Fly wonderfully. With a 2200 mAh 3 cell, it'll likely fly the Sky Fly until you're tired of flying it as well, and provided you can do so without hitting the tail boom, you can always go to a larger/higher pitch prop if you want more power. I've had up to an 8X6 prop on the little TP motors, and found the power consumption to be still well within acceptable range - about 15 amps on a 3 cell.
Good luck, and let me know about your progress. Hopefully I'll get around to my planned Sky Fly mod soon. I'm planning on mapping out the connections on the factory Sky Fly electronics, then attempting to remove the receiver section and wire in a Spektrum receiver while retaining the factory "servos" and ESC. That way I can use the plane to teach my kids how to fly without worrying about getting shot down, and it'll also be equipped for a trainer cord. I've got plenty of other planes to fool around with so I have no intentions of drastically improving the performance of my Sky Fly, but a little more dependable RF link would be a nice addition as well as the trainer cord feature. If my factory electronics were to ever bite the dust however, you can bet that MY Sky Fly would be equipped with a 2408-21 and a lipo in pretty short order, and that's a large part of the reason why I'm curious as to how your project turns out.
07-25-2007, 05:35 PM
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RE: Flyzone Sky Fly
Hi raginredneck93 - Thanks for your long and informative repsonse.
I was leaning towards using 2-cell li-po's but then reading your latest reply has put me back onto the 3-cell configuration. The new motor mount will be very easy - Simply remove old 380 motor, remove all internals from motor, and just put back the empty 380 motor can - This fits well within the customised shape of the skyfly. You'd then make-up a small square fibreglass sheet, or alloy (for better heat transfer) and then this would be secured into place using 2 counter-sunk bolts, back onto the front of the empty 380 motor can. This basically gives you a nice flat area where the new motor attaches, angled the same as before. If you made a rectangle (instead of a square), you could mount the motor higher (increasing boom clearence) allowing for large props to be fitted. I also plan on making the front nose-wheel steerable, as some of my 'road-landings' veer towards the kerbs due to camber and theres not much control with the skyfly without power. I plan to achieved this by mounting the rudder servo (HS-65MG) in center and inverted (servo horn poking out the bottom of the fuselauge. Push/Pull rod x 2 to front wheel, and push/pull rod x 1 to rear for rubber (might have to cross linkage over as I am not sure how a front nose-wheel needs to react compared to rudder input) The built-in spring on the front landing gear will be threaded with dowel or something as this is the area I intend to use attach my steering linkages. The little locating arm on the top front landing gear (that embeds into fuselage) needs to be remove/shortned, so it allows the front wheel to steer. The existing little yellow front wheel retaining bolt, will be strengthen to a 3-4mm bolt/washers with nyloc nut - allows to turn without any play. I think the skyfly could do with slightly large wheels, as I find it gets 'bogged' easily on short grass (even full throttle can't get it moving - although with new brushless motor this could be a thing of the past). I think I'll first make and install the new motor & mount, and then install radio gear on a fibreglass sheet (so it can all be moved around inside fuselage) I'll then install the battery and radio gear, moving it around until I get the same CG like before. There is plently of room inside the Skyfly fuselage (infront and behind orignal CG, so getting the CG right shouldn't be too hard). It will then all be secured in place, push-rods fitted/adjusted and then off for fun. I don't think my Skyfly will end-up any lighter, probably about the same. I hope others are finding our conversation useful ...
If all goes well, I'll send you my Skyfly Receiver/control Unit ($60US value), as I won't be needing it, and it would be a way of thanking you for your help/advice during my project. Thanks again - LamboDave.
I was leaning towards using 2-cell li-po's but then reading your latest reply has put me back onto the 3-cell configuration. The new motor mount will be very easy - Simply remove old 380 motor, remove all internals from motor, and just put back the empty 380 motor can - This fits well within the customised shape of the skyfly. You'd then make-up a small square fibreglass sheet, or alloy (for better heat transfer) and then this would be secured into place using 2 counter-sunk bolts, back onto the front of the empty 380 motor can. This basically gives you a nice flat area where the new motor attaches, angled the same as before. If you made a rectangle (instead of a square), you could mount the motor higher (increasing boom clearence) allowing for large props to be fitted. I also plan on making the front nose-wheel steerable, as some of my 'road-landings' veer towards the kerbs due to camber and theres not much control with the skyfly without power. I plan to achieved this by mounting the rudder servo (HS-65MG) in center and inverted (servo horn poking out the bottom of the fuselauge. Push/Pull rod x 2 to front wheel, and push/pull rod x 1 to rear for rubber (might have to cross linkage over as I am not sure how a front nose-wheel needs to react compared to rudder input) The built-in spring on the front landing gear will be threaded with dowel or something as this is the area I intend to use attach my steering linkages. The little locating arm on the top front landing gear (that embeds into fuselage) needs to be remove/shortned, so it allows the front wheel to steer. The existing little yellow front wheel retaining bolt, will be strengthen to a 3-4mm bolt/washers with nyloc nut - allows to turn without any play. I think the skyfly could do with slightly large wheels, as I find it gets 'bogged' easily on short grass (even full throttle can't get it moving - although with new brushless motor this could be a thing of the past
). I think I'll first make and install the new motor & mount, and then install radio gear on a fibreglass sheet (so it can all be moved around inside fuselage) I'll then install the battery and radio gear, moving it around until I get the same CG like before. There is plently of room inside the Skyfly fuselage (infront and behind orignal CG, so getting the CG right shouldn't be too hard). It will then all be secured in place, push-rods fitted/adjusted and then off for fun. I don't think my Skyfly will end-up any lighter, probably about the same. I hope others are finding our conversation useful ...If all goes well, I'll send you my Skyfly Receiver/control Unit ($60US value), as I won't be needing it, and it would be a way of thanking you for your help/advice during my project. Thanks again - LamboDave.
08-26-2007, 11:16 PM
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RE: Flyzone Sky Fly
*** Lipo SkyFly Update *** Hi All - I fully modified my Skyfly and it had issues flying... Its was fitted with brushless motor (100W output), 25A ESC, 7" pusher prop, 11.1v 3-cell Lipo (2200mah), 2 x Hitec HS-65MG servos, 2 x pushrods and AR6000 (DX6 reciever). Total weight with 2200mah Lipo pushed it alittle over 600g (470g is stock weight). Got the CG correct and hand launched it. At full power, it struggled getting any height, I was just able to level it out and land softly. Problem was clearly too much weight for the small wings. I did expect this, but thought once it got upto speed it would be OK - Never got there !!!
Anyway, I have now borrowed some much lighter 1200mah, 1500mah & 1800mah 3-cell Lipo's from a friend and will try again. This will work much better, as the weight of my 2200mah lipo was 180g, and the 1200mah is only 99g. It does greatly alter the CG, but feel I can correct this by moving the wings back an inch. This should fly very well, as it would then weigh almost the same as a stock SkyFly, but with heaps more power !!! I will try it again this coming weekend, and update my findings, with photos shortly after.
Anyway, I have now borrowed some much lighter 1200mah, 1500mah & 1800mah 3-cell Lipo's from a friend and will try again. This will work much better, as the weight of my 2200mah lipo was 180g, and the 1200mah is only 99g. It does greatly alter the CG, but feel I can correct this by moving the wings back an inch. This should fly very well, as it would then weigh almost the same as a stock SkyFly, but with heaps more power !!! I will try it again this coming weekend, and update my findings, with photos shortly after.
08-27-2007, 10:54 AM
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RE: Flyzone Sky Fly
ORIGINAL: lambodave
*** Lipo SkyFly Update *** Hi All - I fully modified my Skyfly and it had issues flying... Its was fitted with brushless motor (100W output), 25A ESC, 7" pusher prop, 11.1v 3-cell Lipo (2200mah), 2 x Hitec HS-65MG servos, 2 x pushrods and AR6000 (DX6 reciever). Total weight with 2200mah Lipo pushed it alittle over 600g (470g is stock weight). Got the CG correct and hand launched it. At full power, it struggled getting any height, I was just able to level it out and land softly. Problem was clearly too much weight for the small wings. I did expect this, but thought once it got upto speed it would be OK - Never got there !!!
Anyway, I have now borrowed some much lighter 1200mah, 1500mah & 1800mah 3-cell Lipo's from a friend and will try again. This will work much better, as the weight of my 2200mah lipo was 180g, and the 1200mah is only 99g. It does greatly alter the CG, but feel I can correct this by moving the wings back an inch. This should fly very well, as it would then weigh almost the same as a stock SkyFly, but with heaps more power !!! I will try it again this coming weekend, and update my findings, with photos shortly after.
*** Lipo SkyFly Update *** Hi All - I fully modified my Skyfly and it had issues flying... Its was fitted with brushless motor (100W output), 25A ESC, 7" pusher prop, 11.1v 3-cell Lipo (2200mah), 2 x Hitec HS-65MG servos, 2 x pushrods and AR6000 (DX6 reciever). Total weight with 2200mah Lipo pushed it alittle over 600g (470g is stock weight). Got the CG correct and hand launched it. At full power, it struggled getting any height, I was just able to level it out and land softly. Problem was clearly too much weight for the small wings. I did expect this, but thought once it got upto speed it would be OK - Never got there !!!
Anyway, I have now borrowed some much lighter 1200mah, 1500mah & 1800mah 3-cell Lipo's from a friend and will try again. This will work much better, as the weight of my 2200mah lipo was 180g, and the 1200mah is only 99g. It does greatly alter the CG, but feel I can correct this by moving the wings back an inch. This should fly very well, as it would then weigh almost the same as a stock SkyFly, but with heaps more power !!! I will try it again this coming weekend, and update my findings, with photos shortly after.
08-27-2007, 04:41 PM
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RE: Flyzone Sky Fly
Hi Newjak - thanks for the advice regarding the wing reenforcement. How did you do this ? Carbon rod cut into the wing, or simply taped on the bottom or top ? Also, what capacity Lipo's are running ? I think I could run 1500mah (weight = 130g), and my CG will remain the same. What prop and motor are you running ? I think I could run a much lighter 9" maple pusher prop on mine now, as my custom mount sits the brushless motor on top of the orginal one (more clearance to boom) The recommended props for the RimFire motor I have is 8" to 13", and I have a 25Amp ESC so I think it will all be compatible. I did some weighing yesterday evening, and can run 1200mah, with stock CG and weigh only 16.9 oz. I am running 2 x 17g Hitec servos in my SkyFly, as I also fly Helecopters and thought I'd buy the same servos as used in my Helis, so I have spares if ever I need to. Also, the 25Amp ESC is a bit of an overkill, as my motor would only draw 12Amp max (Again, so it could be re-used in my Heli's). Do you have any photos of your modified SkyFly ?
08-27-2007, 07:45 PM
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RE: Flyzone Sky Fly
ORIGINAL: lambodave
Hi Newjak - thanks for the advice regarding the wing reenforcement. How did you do this ? Carbon rod cut into the wing, or simply taped on the bottom or top ? Also, what capacity Lipo's are running ? I think I could run 1500mah (weight = 130g), and my CG will remain the same. What prop and motor are you running ? I think I could run a much lighter 9" maple pusher prop on mine now, as my custom mount sits the brushless motor on top of the orginal one (more clearance to boom) The recommended props for the RimFire motor I have is 8" to 13", and I have a 25Amp ESC so I think it will all be compatible. I did some weighing yesterday evening, and can run 1200mah, with stock CG and weigh only 16.9 oz. I am running 2 x 17g Hitec servos in my SkyFly, as I also fly Helecopters and thought I'd buy the same servos as used in my Helis, so I have spares if ever I need to. Also, the 25Amp ESC is a bit of an overkill, as my motor would only draw 12Amp max (Again, so it could be re-used in my Heli's). Do you have any photos of your modified SkyFly ?
Hi Newjak - thanks for the advice regarding the wing reenforcement. How did you do this ? Carbon rod cut into the wing, or simply taped on the bottom or top ? Also, what capacity Lipo's are running ? I think I could run 1500mah (weight = 130g), and my CG will remain the same. What prop and motor are you running ? I think I could run a much lighter 9" maple pusher prop on mine now, as my custom mount sits the brushless motor on top of the orginal one (more clearance to boom) The recommended props for the RimFire motor I have is 8" to 13", and I have a 25Amp ESC so I think it will all be compatible. I did some weighing yesterday evening, and can run 1200mah, with stock CG and weigh only 16.9 oz. I am running 2 x 17g Hitec servos in my SkyFly, as I also fly Helecopters and thought I'd buy the same servos as used in my Helis, so I have spares if ever I need to. Also, the 25Amp ESC is a bit of an overkill, as my motor would only draw 12Amp max (Again, so it could be re-used in my Heli's). Do you have any photos of your modified SkyFly ?
08-27-2007, 07:59 PM
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RE: Flyzone Sky Fly
Thanks for the info - I too added larger wheels to handle grass landings. I am thinking of making the nose wheel steerable, as I positioned my servo horns so they come out underneath the fuselage, so a simply linkage from the front servo (rudder) to front wheel should be easy to make. My Skyfly is my first plane, and it taught me how to fly. I soon discovered it was under-powered when the winds blows alittle, and found it hard sometimes to fly up-wind (it almost hovers, unless you tip the nose down alittle). I will install the carbon-rod before my next flight (I am still on my original wing !!!). I think the skyfly is a great plane for a beginner, although I only ever flew it in 'Expert' mode - Didn't liked the 'Beginner' mode, as it did extra things for you. What kind of flight times are you getting from your 1320 lipo ? Brushless motors are supposed to use much less power, and I got 15 minutes for the stock 900mah battery with stock brushed motor. I'd think you should be getting 30 minutes or so ?
08-28-2007, 09:54 AM
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RE: Flyzone Sky Fly
I am not sure of the maximum flight duration as I usually limit my flights to around 10-15 minutes. I have never flown any lipo down to the LVC. For me after 10-15 minutes I need a break. The longest I have flown with this setup is about 25 minutes, but that was with alot of thermaling and throttle mangement mixed in. and there was still some power left in the battery
08-28-2007, 05:00 PM
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RE: Flyzone Sky Fly
Last night I spent a few hours getting my skyfly ready for some weekend flights. It's now got correct CG, with 1500mah 3-cell lipo and weights in at 530g, or 18.8 oz. I could reduce the weight down a little by using a 1200mah lipo, but would like to see how it flies in this configuration, and how long it lasts. Will get back with info and photos early next week.
09-02-2007, 07:07 PM
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RE: Flyzone Sky Fly
WOW - 3-cell lipo powered SkyFly's are great - almost 60 minutes on a 1500mah lipo (although I did do a fair bit of soaring around at extreme heights - 5mm by eye from ground). It climbs, loops and flies really well. Although my conversion costs a fair bit, I am very happy with it. I run a 7"x5" pusher prop, Rimfire 28mm motor (100W max output), cheap 3-cell lipos (C10 are OK), AR6000 (DX6 Rec), 2 x hitec HG65MG servos and dubro mirco pushrods. Mount all hardware up front as far as possible, with brushless motor located over the top of the original one - (make up flat bracket/mount from some alloy flat bar - just drill some holes in the right places). I removed the inners of my orignal motor, and just re-installed the empty motor can back (used to secure the new mont). My wing is strenghten by carbon rod stuck to underside of wing. I have even installed larger 'ball-raced' wheels !!! Grass take-off are great fun, and it climbs away at 60-75 degrees with ease. I will now be using this Skyfly to teach my father to fly (He too has DX6 equipment, so the trainer cord will be used). My Skyfly still looks standard, except for new brushless motor is sitting on top of orignal one, which allows for larger props and give it plently of air-flow. Infact after 60 minutes of flying the motor was 'cold' to touch as soon as it landed. If you have the hardware laying around, I can certainly confirm your time converting would be time well spent. Anyone wanting photos, let me know ...
09-02-2007, 07:47 PM
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RE: Flyzone Sky Fly
Glad to hear it's working out so well Dave. Go ahead and post some pics, I'd like to see what you've got going. I don't care to discourage anyone from modifying their Sky Flies, lord knows that just tinkering around like this is how I've learned a lot of what I know about this hobby, but I feel compelled to point out that theres a whole lot of planes on the market that could be set up similarly a whole lot easier, probably a whole lot cheaper, would fly just as good or better, and wouldn't require that a person tossed out half of them before getting started.
Once again though, I'm glad that it's working and you're having fun, because that's what this is all about after all. That and the knowledge you've gained by figuring out this power system, radio install, ect. will be with you for a lifetime, and will no doubt apply to a plethora of projects that you may undertake in the future. The education that you're receiving from this is well worth the cost of the Sky Fly, and will pay for itself over and over again should you progress to more advanced models, which I'm sure you will eventually.
It's all too easy for some of us that have been afflicted with this disease for so long to forget the days when we were far happier to modify whatever plane we happened to have than to simply go out and buy the plane we wanted. Generally that was because we didn't have the money to go out and buy the plane we wanted, LOL. When I first happened upon this thread I myself started wondering why anyone would want to expend so much effort to modify a plane that was never going to be a stellar performer from a speed, agility, or aerobatic standpoint, but then I recalled the fond memories I have of modifying my old Superstar 40 trainer to perform all sorts of interesting tasks . . . . . because it was what I had and I didn't have the money to buy a plane for each individual purpose that I had in mind. It was far easier and more within my price range at the time to enlarge control surfaces, turn up servo throws, try different props, different fuels, ect. than it was to go out and buy a higher performance aircraft and all related gear to go with it.
I equipped that plane with a smoke system (aluminum bracket underneath to hold a smoke bomb that was lit immediately before takeoff), I made skis for it so I could fly it off of snow, put "tundra tires" on it so I could take off and land from gravel roads, and always dreamed of putting floats on the blasted thing but never did. I had a blast, even though several more experienced modelers were quick to tell me that I was wasting my time. I wasn't wasting my time, because the things I learned about fabrication and aerodynamics and a whole host of other subjects stay with me still today, and as a result I'm a better modeler and pilot because I haven't bound myself to building and flying simply "off the shelf" aircraft. Actually, I still tinker around, scratch build, and modify things that probably don't need modifying, because sometimes it's fun to just see what happens. Occasionally, I inadvertently learn something new in the process.
Once again though, I'm glad that it's working and you're having fun, because that's what this is all about after all. That and the knowledge you've gained by figuring out this power system, radio install, ect. will be with you for a lifetime, and will no doubt apply to a plethora of projects that you may undertake in the future. The education that you're receiving from this is well worth the cost of the Sky Fly, and will pay for itself over and over again should you progress to more advanced models, which I'm sure you will eventually.
It's all too easy for some of us that have been afflicted with this disease for so long to forget the days when we were far happier to modify whatever plane we happened to have than to simply go out and buy the plane we wanted. Generally that was because we didn't have the money to go out and buy the plane we wanted, LOL. When I first happened upon this thread I myself started wondering why anyone would want to expend so much effort to modify a plane that was never going to be a stellar performer from a speed, agility, or aerobatic standpoint, but then I recalled the fond memories I have of modifying my old Superstar 40 trainer to perform all sorts of interesting tasks . . . . . because it was what I had and I didn't have the money to buy a plane for each individual purpose that I had in mind. It was far easier and more within my price range at the time to enlarge control surfaces, turn up servo throws, try different props, different fuels, ect. than it was to go out and buy a higher performance aircraft and all related gear to go with it.
I equipped that plane with a smoke system (aluminum bracket underneath to hold a smoke bomb that was lit immediately before takeoff), I made skis for it so I could fly it off of snow, put "tundra tires" on it so I could take off and land from gravel roads, and always dreamed of putting floats on the blasted thing but never did. I had a blast, even though several more experienced modelers were quick to tell me that I was wasting my time. I wasn't wasting my time, because the things I learned about fabrication and aerodynamics and a whole host of other subjects stay with me still today, and as a result I'm a better modeler and pilot because I haven't bound myself to building and flying simply "off the shelf" aircraft. Actually, I still tinker around, scratch build, and modify things that probably don't need modifying, because sometimes it's fun to just see what happens. Occasionally, I inadvertently learn something new in the process.
09-02-2007, 08:06 PM
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RE: Flyzone Sky Fly
I fully agree with you raginredneck93, what I have learnt from this is great, and had fun thinking it through. Last weekend all the theory came to life. Even though I did buy alot of hardware for my upgrade, it was all the same hardware as I use in my Helicopters (servos, AR6000 Rec), so basically I now have spares, which are currently in use in my SkyFly. I get huge satisfaction upgrading something, then simply buying a better model - I also don't mind drilling holes into something cheap and plastic, and having a go. I have learnt heaps from this little project, and do intend moving up the 'chain' of models. I'd like a 4-storke spitfire next - How different do low-wing models fly, compared to high-wing trainers ? I used to race Nitro cars, so I have some nirto engine knownledge.
09-02-2007, 10:09 PM
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RE: Flyzone Sky Fly
AAAAHAAAA! I knew it, a heli flyer. I was kind of wondering why you'd use HS65MG's in a Sky Fly, LOL. I should've known.
I fly a T-Rex myself, loads of fun, and another interesting learning experience in and of itself for sure, but I like tinkering with pretty much all things mechanical so helis were a natural progression for me. I just bought a Compass Knight 50 as well, I'll hopefully have it flying by next spring if I get some time to work on it and money for gear this winter.
As far as the low wing models are concerned, they don't fly all that differently as a general rule, but it depends on the model. It's just my opinion, I think if you talk to a few other experienced modelers you'll find them in agreement, but a Spitfire with a 4 stroke is most definitely NOT the next logical progression after a Sky Fly! Warbirds in general, and a Spitfire is no different, have high wing loading and are therefore far more prone to stalling and far more difficult to land successfully than say an aerobatic model like an Extra 300, CAP232, Edge 540, ect. Even these aren't the best choices for a first sport/aerobatic plane unless you happen to have a large amount of aptitude.
Considering that you already fly helis, you should have no trouble whatsoever skipping a step or two, but a warbird is a pretty big jump, and especially one with a 4 stroke. If I were you, I'd try a "fun fly" type model first, and I'd lean more toward a simpler power plant like a plain old OS or similar two stroke, or if you want my honest opinion, a brushless outrunner. Although I've never owned a 4 stroke myself (had a few two strokes years ago, these days I'm pretty much all electric except for my recently acquired Knight 50, yet to see how that turns out) I see other guys at the field having far more problems with them than the simpler power plants. If you're dead set on one though, make sure you get some help from someone with some experience since, like all glow engines, they can be rotten temperamental little buggers, LOL. They also have a nasty tendency to throw props if you let them run lean, so best to get some experienced help with the 4 strokers. I will say however, there is just no replacement for the sound of a 4 stroke, and like all glow engines they run well . . . . . when they run, LOL. As far as a plane is concerned, Pattern and Fun Fly type planes generally have far thicker airfoils than their scale counterparts, and therefore much slower and more forgiving flight characteristics while still being amazingly aerobatics capable. Since you'll be making the jump from a trike gear to a taildragger their much more forgiving landing characteristics will be a blessing as well. A couple examples would be the E-Flight Mini Pulse XT, or even the larger glow powered Hangar 9 version, an LA Racer, an Eratix, a Twist, Funtana, there's loads of them out there that fly great and don't look all that bad either. Like I say, your heli experience will be a BIG help, but jumping from a 3 channel high wing trainer as forgiving as a Sky Fly to a rip snorting full house 4 channel (or more if you elect to add flaps and/or retracts) warbird with a stall speed likely higher than the Sky Fly at full throttle, is one mighty big jump.
Another plane that I recommend to just about everyone regardless of skill level, and especially as a second plane due to it's durability, speed, agility, and usefulness as a basic aerobatic trainer is the Mugi Evo. If you like tinkering and modifying things, then building something as simple as a Mugi should be no problem for you. I assure you that the complete build is far easier than the mods you performed on your Sky Fly, and the materials and gear are absolute bottom of the barrel low cost. IMHO, there is no finer "Bang For The Buck" RC aircraft in the world, and myself and pretty much all of my flying buddies have several each for those days when we need a little low cost, low risk flying. They're so cheap, durable, and easy to build that we engage in bouts of full contact combat at every opportunity, although we've yet to crown a winner since midairs aren't so easy when you're actually trying to have one, LOL. They can be set up anywhere from mild to wild (I have one that will fly over 10 minutes at full throttle on a 1320 mAh 3 cell, and a friend of mine has one that's been clocked on radar at 109 MPH, the only difference is the power systems), they handle wind admirably, they're double tough with most crashes requiring nothing more than another launch or the occasional busted prop. We've even built them translucent and lit them up from the inside with LEDs and flown them at night, the things are an absolute blast and great for getting used to flying something a bit higher up the speed and agility scale than a trainer. You can get all the particulars at [link]http://www.mugi.co.uk[/link] if you're interested. The plans are free, but they also have kits for sale, and a whole lot of other products. The designer is a friend of mine (never met in person, just over the web), and he's a first class nice guy. I'm hoping you'll go check it out.
I'm not in any way saying that you couldn't fly a Spitfire mind you, just expressing my opinion that it might not be the best next choice. I'd wait until I had a bit of taildragger experience myself, as well as being perfectly comfortable with the idea of going fast. Speaking of Spitfires, I'm off to bed as a friend of mine is supposed to bring his Spitfire to the field in the morning, and I've yet to see it fly. I'm not sure of the kit, Hanger 9 I want to say, but it's a 6 foot span, with retracts, and quite a looker. The power source? Big honkin' outrunner with two 5000 mAh 4s lipos providing the juice. No tuning, no cleanup, power to spare, and it doesn't even make his van smell like slimer fuel.
I fly a T-Rex myself, loads of fun, and another interesting learning experience in and of itself for sure, but I like tinkering with pretty much all things mechanical so helis were a natural progression for me. I just bought a Compass Knight 50 as well, I'll hopefully have it flying by next spring if I get some time to work on it and money for gear this winter.
As far as the low wing models are concerned, they don't fly all that differently as a general rule, but it depends on the model. It's just my opinion, I think if you talk to a few other experienced modelers you'll find them in agreement, but a Spitfire with a 4 stroke is most definitely NOT the next logical progression after a Sky Fly! Warbirds in general, and a Spitfire is no different, have high wing loading and are therefore far more prone to stalling and far more difficult to land successfully than say an aerobatic model like an Extra 300, CAP232, Edge 540, ect. Even these aren't the best choices for a first sport/aerobatic plane unless you happen to have a large amount of aptitude.
Considering that you already fly helis, you should have no trouble whatsoever skipping a step or two, but a warbird is a pretty big jump, and especially one with a 4 stroke. If I were you, I'd try a "fun fly" type model first, and I'd lean more toward a simpler power plant like a plain old OS or similar two stroke, or if you want my honest opinion, a brushless outrunner. Although I've never owned a 4 stroke myself (had a few two strokes years ago, these days I'm pretty much all electric except for my recently acquired Knight 50, yet to see how that turns out) I see other guys at the field having far more problems with them than the simpler power plants. If you're dead set on one though, make sure you get some help from someone with some experience since, like all glow engines, they can be rotten temperamental little buggers, LOL. They also have a nasty tendency to throw props if you let them run lean, so best to get some experienced help with the 4 strokers. I will say however, there is just no replacement for the sound of a 4 stroke, and like all glow engines they run well . . . . . when they run, LOL. As far as a plane is concerned, Pattern and Fun Fly type planes generally have far thicker airfoils than their scale counterparts, and therefore much slower and more forgiving flight characteristics while still being amazingly aerobatics capable. Since you'll be making the jump from a trike gear to a taildragger their much more forgiving landing characteristics will be a blessing as well. A couple examples would be the E-Flight Mini Pulse XT, or even the larger glow powered Hangar 9 version, an LA Racer, an Eratix, a Twist, Funtana, there's loads of them out there that fly great and don't look all that bad either. Like I say, your heli experience will be a BIG help, but jumping from a 3 channel high wing trainer as forgiving as a Sky Fly to a rip snorting full house 4 channel (or more if you elect to add flaps and/or retracts) warbird with a stall speed likely higher than the Sky Fly at full throttle, is one mighty big jump.
Another plane that I recommend to just about everyone regardless of skill level, and especially as a second plane due to it's durability, speed, agility, and usefulness as a basic aerobatic trainer is the Mugi Evo. If you like tinkering and modifying things, then building something as simple as a Mugi should be no problem for you. I assure you that the complete build is far easier than the mods you performed on your Sky Fly, and the materials and gear are absolute bottom of the barrel low cost. IMHO, there is no finer "Bang For The Buck" RC aircraft in the world, and myself and pretty much all of my flying buddies have several each for those days when we need a little low cost, low risk flying. They're so cheap, durable, and easy to build that we engage in bouts of full contact combat at every opportunity, although we've yet to crown a winner since midairs aren't so easy when you're actually trying to have one, LOL. They can be set up anywhere from mild to wild (I have one that will fly over 10 minutes at full throttle on a 1320 mAh 3 cell, and a friend of mine has one that's been clocked on radar at 109 MPH, the only difference is the power systems), they handle wind admirably, they're double tough with most crashes requiring nothing more than another launch or the occasional busted prop. We've even built them translucent and lit them up from the inside with LEDs and flown them at night, the things are an absolute blast and great for getting used to flying something a bit higher up the speed and agility scale than a trainer. You can get all the particulars at [link]http://www.mugi.co.uk[/link] if you're interested. The plans are free, but they also have kits for sale, and a whole lot of other products. The designer is a friend of mine (never met in person, just over the web), and he's a first class nice guy. I'm hoping you'll go check it out.
I'm not in any way saying that you couldn't fly a Spitfire mind you, just expressing my opinion that it might not be the best next choice. I'd wait until I had a bit of taildragger experience myself, as well as being perfectly comfortable with the idea of going fast. Speaking of Spitfires, I'm off to bed as a friend of mine is supposed to bring his Spitfire to the field in the morning, and I've yet to see it fly. I'm not sure of the kit, Hanger 9 I want to say, but it's a 6 foot span, with retracts, and quite a looker. The power source? Big honkin' outrunner with two 5000 mAh 4s lipos providing the juice. No tuning, no cleanup, power to spare, and it doesn't even make his van smell like slimer fuel.
01-08-2008, 09:06 PM
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RE: Flyzone Sky Fly
ORIGINAL: mikec123
can someone please tell me the diffrence in beginner mode and expert mode and what is the flying like in each mode.. thanx
can someone please tell me the diffrence in beginner mode and expert mode and what is the flying like in each mode.. thanx
In beginner mode when you turn(rudder left or right) the plane automatically uses up elevator to help smooth out the turning, in expert mode when you turn it is only controlling the rudder no elevator is mixed in. beginner mode is softer slower turns, expert you can make sharper turns. start out using begginer then after you have the feel for the plane try expert if you start to lose it switch back to beginner till you get the plane back under control. hope this helps alittle
01-13-2008, 10:22 PM
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RE: Flyzone Sky Fly
Whew, I'm tired. I just read 166 posts about the Sky Fly. I have about 10 flights in on mine, and about 30 feet of repair packing tape. I just see the wind as a challenge, and sometimes it wins.
I wouldn't mind having a little more power, as long as it's cheap. Someone mentioned a Stryker motor, are there others? AND, to put in a motor do I have to take the body apart, how does that happen, how do you get the two halves apart?
Thanks for all the info, esp raginredneck93.
I wouldn't mind having a little more power, as long as it's cheap. Someone mentioned a Stryker motor, are there others? AND, to put in a motor do I have to take the body apart, how does that happen, how do you get the two halves apart?
Thanks for all the info, esp raginredneck93.
02-09-2008, 05:35 PM
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RE: Flyzone Sky Fly
I am loving this plane. As a newbie, this is my first plane after trying this thing out as a child. I managed to get it into the air without breaking anything and went through about 6 batteries. This plane flies good for a begginer. I am modifying the tail and I also put pushrods on instead of the fishing line. much more responsive. I will post photos later. My local hobby sells a 30" set of pushrods for parkflyers so they fit perfectly. This is my first plane and my first modification as i plan to build some of my later planes. Having a ball
02-09-2008, 09:33 PM
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RE: Flyzone Sky Fly
Hi All, I fully modified skyfly, and it flies great. You certainly need more power when flying in wind. I installed a RimFire Brushless motor + Speedcontroller, and spins an 8" x 5" prop. I now take aerial photos/movies with my skyfly. I can take up standard compact cameras, and film the whole flights. I think the skyfly is a great plane to learn to fly with, as it's cheap and parts are easy/cheap to buy. It is then easy to fully modifiy yourself (which teaches you lots about the principles of flying) and then once modified, provides a very capable model to fly. My Skyfly has a 1:1 ratio, and can do unlimited vertical climbs - It's just great. Let me know if you want to see photos of my skyfly, and I'll upload some.
02-10-2008, 09:47 AM
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RE: Flyzone Sky Fly
LamboDave -- of course we want to see photos! That sounds like quite a mod. What made you decide to renovate the Skyfly rather than buy something made for custom motor and radio gear? I'm loving my Skyfly too. Dave
02-10-2008, 04:53 PM
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RE: Flyzone Sky Fly
I've had my SkyFly about a month now and am enjoying it. I leave for Iraq in a month and am planning on taking it with me. Some of the mods I've done on it are to replace the fishing line with 20 gauge steel wire (stiff enough to forgo the rubber bands) and used a wrecked tail for an added rudder and an addition to the elevator. To windy to test fly it today, but I'll let you know how the 20 gauge works out for control.
BTW, the popcicle stick are a rudder fix from a rather dramatic crash this morning. They are epoxied into place.
BTW, the popcicle stick are a rudder fix from a rather dramatic crash this morning. They are epoxied into place.
02-10-2008, 05:08 PM
#174
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RE: Flyzone Sky Fly
lambodave, please pos some pics/videos and the specs of the equipment you used to upgrade. I'll have limited ability to build my own systems in Iraq so it would be fun to mod this thing while I'm there.
02-10-2008, 08:07 PM
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RE: Flyzone Sky Fly
Wow Tarbox, now that's an extreme rudder! Did you get a test flight in today? Would love to know how it made out.
The only mod I've made to mine (at this point, anyway) was to replace the monofilament with non-stretch spiderwire line, and to rethread the line through the hole on the control horns closest to the control surfaces. That is, I moved the line's contact with the horn as close to the control surfaces as possible, thereby requiring less servo movement to get more out of the controls. I haven't changed the surface size yet. I'm finding so far that this gives me enough control. I'm worried that adding that much surface area would make it a bit twitchy and hard to keep in smooth flight. Would love to know how your mods performed.
PS -- be safe in Iraq.
Dave
The only mod I've made to mine (at this point, anyway) was to replace the monofilament with non-stretch spiderwire line, and to rethread the line through the hole on the control horns closest to the control surfaces. That is, I moved the line's contact with the horn as close to the control surfaces as possible, thereby requiring less servo movement to get more out of the controls. I haven't changed the surface size yet. I'm finding so far that this gives me enough control. I'm worried that adding that much surface area would make it a bit twitchy and hard to keep in smooth flight. Would love to know how your mods performed.
PS -- be safe in Iraq.
Dave