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GWS Pico TIGER MOTH - Flight Report

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Old 10-03-2007, 08:07 PM
  #51
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Default RE: GWS Pico TIGER MOTH - Flight Report

GMan2000 - Hiya!! Reason for overpowering is twofold. I've been let down by previous models and manufacturers with claims of flight performance etc. One was the Zagi. It came with a 480 brushed and I did build it light, yet the thing would only just fly using NimH batteries. I changed it to 200w 1750Kv motor and presto, it flew like an ace. Also, I don't have a set of scales and tend to go with wot is cheapest on I-net rather than weight. I would love to attend an indoor flight session but there are none in this area - they're all 350 miles away!!! I normally fly Strykers built from scratch with big b/less and 2200 MaH lipo but decided on a change in my old age - 56 today!! I love the Beaver (now with TP B/less) and a 3D Profile Giles 202 (put in a b/less today). One of my fave is a slow flyer, the Easystar by Multiplex. Used the stock 400 brushed but changed to - - you guessed it - a Hyperion 2100Kv b/less!!! But the Moth is the only one I feel confident letting go of and knowing she'll go up straight. I'm not the best flyer in the world, but can do loops, Knife edges and even hovering with my 3D. I actually got a £100 birthday present from wifey (she must love me!!) and took a look at the TMoth400, very nice. Got to go now, wifey calling.[8D]
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Old 10-03-2007, 08:09 PM
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Default RE: GWS Pico TIGER MOTH - Flight Report

Flew her again this evening at the Employee's RC Flying field at the Space Center......at first while driving there it seemed to be Dead Calm, however, once at the field it kicked up about 4 - 5 MPH and I flew her with the ligher 2-cell Kokms 1015mAH, 10C discharge and they made that Tiger Moth climb with envy.

I will see about Video taping some AMP draw sessions so, you all can see how efficient this Himax Brushless power system is.

I will also secure my video camcorder to record a flight or two.

later!
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Old 10-03-2007, 08:22 PM
  #53
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Default RE: GWS Pico TIGER MOTH - Flight Report

GMan200 - you own the Kennedy Space Centre? Can't you just fly in a field like the rest of us Mortals? Time for bed for this Astronut!!
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Old 10-07-2007, 02:09 AM
  #54
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Default RE: GWS Pico TIGER MOTH - Flight Report

Hello Fans:

Well, I finally changed out the GWS 6-channel Receiver to the Castle Creations BERG 4-Channel (with the Case) and it was super easy and now it will be ROCK SOLID as I was having some unsolicited Elevator inputs with the GWS RX.

Here's a few pictures:
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Old 10-07-2007, 10:16 AM
  #55
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Default RE: GWS Pico TIGER MOTH - Flight Report

Here's the VIDEO that I finally got to rcord and thanks to my RC Flying Buddy GERRY who came early this Sunday morning at the High School that we frequent to fly out of.....

The Flight was ROCK SOLID with that Castle Creations BERG 4-Channel (with case) and most importantly I measured the AMP draw with my Clamp around AMP Meter and the WIDE OPEN using the 2-Cell, 1200mAH, Li-POLY and swinging the GWS "Slow Flyer" 8X6 propeller was right at 5.06 AMPs and the Half Throttle was 1.83 AMPs !!!

http://media.putfile.com/GWS-pico-Ti...rushless-Power
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Old 10-07-2007, 10:41 AM
  #56
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Default RE: GWS Pico TIGER MOTH - Flight Report

The Video at YOU TUBE is FINALLY Avialable!!!! Took them their sweet time.....[:@]

Here's the Video for this mornings actions!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PCC8XS0f_Lc
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Old 10-07-2007, 05:48 PM
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Default RE: GWS Pico TIGER MOTH - Flight Report

Gman2000, Carlos - That was worth it wasn't it. It flies sweet, a bit of nostalgia there scaled down. When you get a chance can you put the details of the b/less here, Amps, Kv rating, any/all details. I think I'm overpowered with the old Tower Pro - its a 200W 1750Kv unit and is more suited to running on 2000+ MaH. My ESC is rated to 20A and might be too low for this unit. I can change it back to the one I had on orignally. Kp us infomed. Really was a nice vid, and wot a small flying field. Mine is on a slope with disused roads at top streting for a mile. Got to go, see ya soon.
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Old 10-08-2007, 03:32 PM
  #58
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Default RE: GWS Pico TIGER MOTH - Flight Report

My Moth's power setup is:

This Himax HC2212-1180 (22mm diameter, 12mm long, with 1180 kv) performed just very well and I could just could not hear the motor and at times I did not hear that GWS Slow Flyer propeller as well. It swings the GWS Slow Flyer 8 X 6 propeller with just 2-Cell, 1200mAH, 8C, Li-POLYs.

Measured Full Wide Open Throttle was 5.07 AMPs and at 1/2 Throttle was 1.86 AMPs
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Old 10-09-2007, 12:35 PM
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Default RE: GWS Pico TIGER MOTH - Flight Report

My GWS pico Tiger Moth with custom paint job and powered by the Himax HC2212-1180 swinging the GWS "Slow Flyer" 8 X 6 propeller and 2-Cell, 1200mAH, 8C, Li-POLYs, Castle Creations ThunderBird 9 AMP Brushless ESC, CC BERG 4-Channel with case, GWS Pico Servo for Rudder and GWS Narrow Std for Elevator, @ Wide Open Throttle 5.07 AMPs, and at 1/2 Throttle measured 1.87 AMPs. Full Up weight is at exactly 9 - 1/2oz.

Today I mostly flew her in early morning DEAD calm at 1/2 throttle and did so for 20 Minutes of joyful flying......after I landed her everyone came to ask about the power system etc.....

The 2-Cell, 1200mAH measured at 7.55 Volts after the flight..... and....still had enough power to taxi at the pilots station!!!!!!
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Old 10-09-2007, 03:29 PM
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Default RE: GWS Pico TIGER MOTH - Flight Report

Just got out the 2-cell, Don Shulman's 1200mAH, 8C, Li-POLY out from the Charger and it measured 8.07 Volts from post flight of 7.55 Volts "or" in other words about a 1/2 Volt drop for a 20 Minute flight! (Actual Delta was 0.52 Volts)

80% of 1200mAH = 960 mAH

960 milli- AMP -Hour / .333 Hour = 2882.88 Milli Amps

"or" 2.882 AMPs [X(] = Average AMP Draw!!!
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Old 10-09-2007, 06:51 PM
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Default RE: GWS Pico TIGER MOTH - Flight Report

Gman2000 - those are impressive figures!! I see you're in some sort of club there. We have 5 clubs within 20 mile radius but they are predominantly Nitro, very few Leccy[] So most of the leccy guys are Mavericks, using anywhere thats safe and large. The attitude of Nitro guys is that leccy is a Fad and for those that can't build, but you and I know sometimes its the opposite. Because I'm retired I fly 7 days a week (weather permitting) and need at leat 2-3 planes to make an outing interesting - hence I have a range of 8-9 planes.
The Moth - changed the motor back to the small b/less Tower Pro, trying to get it more like yours. Unfortunately the motor details say for 3S, nothing about 2S. Its 120W 900Kv, 3mm shaft, and 65grm. Do you reckon 2S will make it a flyer or not? This motor just seems lacking in power, or am I spoilt cos I fly Strykers and hovering 3D's? Anyway, I'll try the new set-up Thursday.
PPS - the 8 x 6 slow flyer prop - wot shaft thickness have you got? See you later.
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Old 10-11-2007, 07:30 PM
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Default RE: GWS Pico TIGER MOTH - Flight Report

Neat bi-plane
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Old 10-11-2007, 08:17 PM
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Default RE: GWS Pico TIGER MOTH - Flight Report


Quote:
ORIGINAL: tam popo

Gman2000 - those are impressive figures!! I see you're in some sort of club there. We have 5 clubs within 20 mile radius but they are predominantly Nitro, very few Leccy[] So most of the leccy guys are Mavericks, using anywhere thats safe and large. The attitude of Nitro guys is that leccy is a Fad and for those that can't build, but you and I know sometimes its the opposite. Because I'm retired I fly 7 days a week (weather permitting) and need at leat 2-3 planes to make an outing interesting - hence I have a range of 8-9 planes.
The Moth - changed the motor back to the small b/less Tower Pro, trying to get it more like yours. Unfortunately the motor details say for 3S, nothing about 2S. Its 120W 900Kv, 3mm shaft, and 65grm. Do you reckon 2S will make it a flyer or not? This motor just seems lacking in power, or am I spoilt cos I fly Strykers and hovering 3D's? Anyway, I'll try the new set-up Thursday.
PPS - the 8 x 6 slow flyer prop - wot shaft thickness have you got? See you later.
That club in those pictures that I posted earlier with my models on the table is one RC CLUB that I joined back in 2003 and they have welcomed me like an adapted son. Everyone there is just super!

As they saw what I came to fly mostly the Smaller and then some GLow-to-Electric conversions many have sought out Electric's themselves. Many have both Glow, Gas and many many Electrics because of me....

Wow! 65gram motor....that's about 2.4 oz. motor, kind of heavy but, the 900kv maybe suited well to swing a large propeller such as 9 incher with just 2-cells, however, not knowing the No load Current draw (Io) usually specified @ 10 Volts "or" @ 8 Volts I would not know for certain if any 2-cell combination would.

My motor, Himax HC2212-1180 delivers 1180 RPM/VOLT and it is perfect for the 2-cell setup as it provides good RPMs using just 2-cell Li-POLYs and swinging the GWS Slow Flyer 8X6.

I would test that motor out and measure AMP draw and most importantly Propeller RPMs.


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Old 10-11-2007, 08:18 PM
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Default RE: GWS Pico TIGER MOTH - Flight Report


Quote:
ORIGINAL: captinjohn

Neat bi-plane
Thanks! Do you have one or are you know thinking about getting one?
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Old 10-12-2007, 03:02 PM
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Default RE: GWS Pico TIGER MOTH - Flight Report

GMan2000 - Now i'm going to do something that I don't normally do - admit I was wrong!!![>:] I took the Moth out today for a quick fly before work. Site is on a nice slope, very open, and no wind today!! So, decided to hand launch and lanf on tarmac road. Motor fired up, and thrust kicked in, it just wanted to leave my hand, it was straining. A gentle push and up it went, a little too vert!! Trimmed it straight and then it was like it was on rails - until the wind kicked in[>:] This is a light bird that doesn't like breezes, but it was still in control and took off downwind. I managed to turn upwind and it just floated like my rc Kite, slowly coming back. It did crash, a nose in with a clean broken wing (easy repair), but wot a flier, now my fave plane. The small TP b/less is a winner, instant power and using 8 x 6 prop, will try 9 x 4 tomorrow. I think we both got the trim spot on first time, which is very unusual with some planes. 850Mah 3S but a 1000MaH 2S is now on order. Can't wait to get out there!!! See ya.
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Old 10-12-2007, 10:21 PM
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Default RE: GWS Pico TIGER MOTH - Flight Report

I have just picked up my m-a-e.com kit. I am more than satisfied
And he has already answered a couple of questions, by e-mail, VERY fast. (less than 15 mins)

Comes like standard, except that I ordered their "Air Ready Kit" which comes with their(Westport) 25 turns CDROM Engine, MAE laser cut engine mounts, CC Thunderbird 9A ESC and a Common Sense RC 500mah 2S1P pack.

Now I just need to find a place for painting.. Indoor in the appartment, Wifey says nono... Outdoor is around freezing.... have to find a place. (Or do it, when she is out...)

With a bit of luck, both the Pico TM and the Pico stick will be airborne, this weekend.
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Old 10-13-2007, 02:06 AM
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Default RE: GWS Pico TIGER MOTH - Flight Report

Hiya Jesper, how are U? I'm really interested in your TM AND pico Stick builds. I've seen the specs for the MAE TMoth and they look as though they've really thought about improving the bird, its good as standard but better by MAE!! I'm not familiar with CD Ro type motors but they sound good, I'd love to see some stats on them. There's one ting I hate about brushed/gearbox outfits, and thats the long prop shaft which is always a weak spot. Thats another reason I went to b/less. You're gonna love this plane, and there's some good U-Tube vids to wet your appetite. The only mods I've done to my bird is change the u/carriage wire to stronger guage and fit decent light wheels. I've put a small cut-out in the use where rear pilot should sit so that I can change the RX crystal without taking the wings off (in case there's someone nearby using same frequency!!). Put a small wheel on rear instead of the skid. Big change: Fitted 2 carbon struts linking bottom wing to top wing - realy good move!!
PICO STICK: I'm just waiting for my GWS Sow Stick to arrive then I can start building any day now. It will be stock and evolve as crashes occur[][&o]. If you have tipss on your build let us know. Maybe we should upgrade this thread to "The Slow Flyers" thread - now there's an idea. Waiting for electronic scales to arrive - told wife they do them in silver to match her kitchen colour.
PAINT: There is odorless paint, like Satin fiish, emulsion etc, but NOT gloss. My plane was done in the cheap tester pots at DIY store. Going flying now, sun is up, I can't wait. Byeee.
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Old 10-13-2007, 11:03 PM
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Default RE: GWS Pico TIGER MOTH - Flight Report

Hi tam popo and all others reading this thread.

I built the Pico Stick today.
No problems, just followed the instructions, I had also ordered the Carbon strut upgrade, and exept for the Brushless and LiPo, that is the only change from original.
Build was uneventfull, except that it is 20 years since I last did any building.... (need to up my quality control and patience...)
I got the Stick airborne this evening, but a crash landing shook loose one of the hot glued servos. unfortunately I was out of hot glue.[:@]

As for my Pico TM, I am starting that tomorrow, or monday.
In addition to the ordinary http://m-a-e.com kit I also ordered the carbon Strut reinforcement, and I plan to put in flying Wires, it won't look right, without them...
As for painting, I received a suggestion about using a Permanent Speed marker, instead of paint, in order to save weight.

As for the Radio used. I wanted to reuse the Walkera radio from my WK-68B on the Pico Stick, and then put in the Futabe 6EX 2.4ghz in the heli and the Pico TM.
But glitching with the Walkera Radio was so bad, that I gave up. I now have to find a 2.4ghz radio for the boy also. I was hoping to save a bit, by letting him use the old radio.
But seing th eglitching, I now understand that I would never have had a chance learning Heli Flight, using the Walkera Radio.[:'(]

Btw. It takes around 15 minutes to change an 6EX 2.4ghz from Mode 1 to Mode 2. The Radio is just programmed to the new mode(see the manual), and then a spring and a ratchet needs to be moved(NOT Documented in the manual, they say: Send for service), and that is all.
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Old 10-14-2007, 04:30 AM
  #69
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Default RE: GWS Pico TIGER MOTH - Flight Report

Jespa - on the pico Stick, where are the struts you mentioned/ Are they o the wings to stop flex etc and if they are did you put them at leading edge or where? Sorry to hear about the crash, was it a trimming mistake or wot? The Tiger Moth - wires are a good idea, but remember that if you need access to esc or servos when built you have to pull the fuse through the top and bottom wing space. I overcame this by making carbon strut holders epoxied to top and bottom of wings. They can be pulled out of their sockets and the wings then flex to allow the access. Good luck with your build.
TX and RX - I use the cheap type of set (E-Fly, GWS, HiTec Zebra etc). For £40 you get brushed esc, 2/3 servos, crystals, RX and TX - the cost here of DX6 TX and RX is about £120!!!! I have 4 sets of crystals so if someone else is flying nearby I can change to a different frequency. Great. I like the simplicity and have never had a problem in the middle of my city area with glitching etc. Its a good start for kids, the AA battteries I have are rechargeable as well and there is a buddy lead with some sets. Hope this helps.
Tried my TMoth on 2S lipo last night and was surprised how powerful the TP motor is. A new HiMax motor put in Beaver (A2212 I think) and the plane was almost hovering in living room!!!! 200W, 2000+ Kv, 3mm shaft - wow, definately getting more for some other b/less planes I have.
I also put in a similar, more powerful Hyperion in my Thunder Tiger Giles 202 3D Profile and that was incredible. That was hovering.!!!!
I started a new post on Park Flyers etc entitled "Slow Flers, show us your planes...any make" - drop in and take a look if anyone enters it[&o][:-]
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Old 10-14-2007, 10:55 AM
  #70
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Default RE: GWS Pico TIGER MOTH - Flight Report

tam popo: The struts mentioned are replacements for the bamboo sticks that comes standard in the Pico Stick kit. The ones on the leading and trailing edge of the wing.

I will take a look at the slow flyer thread.
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Old 10-16-2007, 11:05 PM
  #71
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Default RE: GWS Pico TIGER MOTH - Flight Report

Well, you guys have seem my moth fly in those Videos that I posted a few pages back and it flys with the Himax HC2212-1180 Outrunner (1180 Kv) and swinging the GWS Slow Flyer 8X6 Propeller with just 2-cell, 1200mAH, 10C, Li-POLY and it flys for over 20 minutes and still left over power to taxi!

Other components: CC ThunderBird 9 Amp ESC Brushless, BERG 4-Channel with case, GWS pico for Rudder and GWS Naro Std for Elevator, tips the digital scale at 9.5oz.

Tonight I have been busy with my landing gear mods:

Bent a regular GWS push rod and sized it up to support the flexible and flimsy landing gear that I had as everytime it landed......the model hip scotched in a very ungraceful manner Now with the additional Main Landing brace and it is functional shock absorber using tiny rubber bands......I can't wait to see how it does..
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Old 10-17-2007, 02:03 AM
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Default RE: GWS Pico TIGER MOTH - Flight Report

JrexA - Jesper, Hello!! Yearh, I see what you mean by the struts, I picked my Slow Stick up yesterday 3pm and finished it at 6pm I put in some carbon struts instead of the white plasti one, a lot tougher now Wow, this thing is basic, its flying taken to bare basics, but thats good. If its a cosmetic looking plane you want, don't buy the SS. And if you eat beans don't go flying!!![>:] just need to maiden, put on stickers and clear tape etc and I'm ready.
The moth - motor sounded a bit rough and I found out why. The rear bearing had dropped out and was lying on the carpet. Had to rebuild the motor mount completely. Again, can't wait - weather not too good at moment.
My wife and I are intrigued!! There's so much we DON'T know about Greenland - don't even know the Capital, weather, distances, language, history etc - so much. Maybe when you have time just fill us in on wot its like there, job, family, travel, car, etc. Anyway, must finih this Slow Stick. Piccys ---
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Old 10-17-2007, 02:13 AM
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Default RE: GWS Pico TIGER MOTH - Flight Report

GMan2000 - Nice wheels!! Look almost scale, as though they were made for the plane. I know what you mean about the u/c, its a bit flimsy, so I did a mod to my TMoth. Its stronger wire but its shorter - too short!! Haven't tried it yet but I think I may have a problem on take-off with wing tips touching ground. Time will tell. I think that we have both improved something that was good to begin with - improvement through necessity and adaptability maybe.[:-][:-] Oh, and I've lost my engine cowling, don't know where. Will have to make a new one. See you later, I'll post pics of new u/c.
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Old 10-17-2007, 11:33 AM
  #74
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Default RE: GWS Pico TIGER MOTH - Flight Report

Quote:
ORIGINAL: guapoman2000

Well, you guys have seem my moth fly in those Videos that I posted a few pages back and it flys with the Himax HC2212-1180 Outrunner (1180 Kv) and swinging the GWS Slow Flyer 8X6 Propeller with just 2-cell, 1200mAH, 10C, Li-POLY and it flys for over 20 minutes and still left over power to taxi!

Other components: CC ThunderBird 9 Amp ESC Brushless, BERG 4-Channel with case, GWS pico for Rudder and GWS Naro Std for Elevator, tips the digital scale at 9.5oz.

Tonight I have been busy with my landing gear mods:

Bent a regular GWS push rod and sized it up to support the flexible and flimsy landing gear that I had as everytime it landed......the model hip scotched in a very ungraceful manner Now with the additional Main Landing brace and it is functional shock absorber using tiny rubber bands......I can't wait to see how it does..
She flew early this morning and what a wonder Doll she is with the Wheel pants....true "Scale" look plus she took off striaght and SOLID with a GRACEFUL & SCALE lift off the ground instead of horsing her up.

The flight was just great plus duration is the same in Dead Calm conditions.

The landing was just terrific....smooth and NO BOUNCE! She even taxied back to my feet. She looked like a larger and heavier model on ground handling!!!! Just Super!!!

This Main landing gear modification is a KEEPER!
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Old 10-19-2007, 12:51 AM
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Default RE: GWS Pico TIGER MOTH - Flight Report

Here's a VIDEO footage with my Tiger Moth in late evening at the local High School and windy conditions!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F7LxyKZ0fdw
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