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Opinions on T-Hawk vs. Aerobird

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Opinions on T-Hawk vs. Aerobird

Old 02-03-2003, 09:54 PM
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MockV
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Default Opinions on T-Hawk vs. Aerobird

Hello Everyone,

I've been doing research for a long time on what trainer to get. First of all I'd like to say I will be the owner of a Midwest Aero-Star soon and am very anxious to start on building! Woohoo! But, I do have a dilemma. While I'm building, I'd really like to have something to fly at my local HUGE park. I've ran searches on this site on the T-Hawk and the Aerobird, but have yet to make a decision.

So, if anyone would help me out, I'd be very, very grateful. I'd like to find out from anyone who's bought these planes, or anyone with knowledge of them, to toss out their opinions. The one thing that deters me from getting an Aerobird is that it is a single stick and would like to keep up my "skills" when not flying the Aero-Star trainer on a two stick transmitter. But I'm pretty stoked with its accessories, hop up and aerobatics.

On the other hand, every single search that I've found on the T-Hawk had crazy reviews on it! Known as "the best trainer plane for non-experienced pilots".

I've been known as a fast learner at anything that has interested me. Which is why I'm not afraid of getting the Aerobird. But, I STILL CAN'T DECIDE! Can anyone help push my hard earned money to something I'd have fun with at a park? And of course, any other suggestions on park flyers are welcome.

Sincerely,
MockV
Old 02-03-2003, 10:31 PM
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goofup
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Default Opinions on T-Hawk vs. Aerobird

Don't get either one!! Both use 27 mhz radios with reversed stick layouts compared to the "real" radio you'll use with the Aero-Star!

Depending on how many channels you use when building your Aero-Star (your instructor at the club probably suggested 4) you will want to find an electric with that uses that many channels with your radio to "stay in practice" with. The primary flight controls (for standard Mode 2 setup) go on the right, throttle on the left, so there's even a difference between 3 and 4 channel:
3-channel: throttle on left, elevator and rudder on right.
4-channel: throttle and rudder on left, elevator and aileron on right.

It's neat that you have the same setup on your parkflyer that you do on your gasser to practice with. HOWEVER, a 4-channel parkflyer is going to be a real handfull until you learn how to fly!!! I'd suggest you wait on the parkflyer until after the instructor finishes teaching you how to fly or all you're going to be doing is learning repairs.

(Oh, if you are going to build it as a 3-channel, get a Slow Stick or a Tiger Moth. They'll use your radio, and stick layout, and are excellent trainers!)

Goofup
Old 02-03-2003, 11:10 PM
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MockV
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Default Opinions on T-Hawk vs. Aerobird

Goofup,

You bring up some good points. Thanks for the info. Rethinking my situation, I guess my controls don't have to be the same on the electric. It would be neat though like you said. One question I have been wondering about, but still NEVER asked, is how does someone use the same transmitter with two different planes? Are you able to change the frequency of your transmitter by exchanging a component? Could anyone give me a short description of this, please?

I do agree with you that a 4 ch plane will be hard to fly until I start my lessons. Heh, which is still why I would like to have something to fly around while I build.

With that in mind, not so much having the same controls, what's the pros/cons of the planes I've suggested? Also, what's the "park flyer flavor of the month"?

Thanks Again,
MockV
Old 02-04-2003, 04:57 AM
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goofup
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Default Opinions on T-Hawk vs. Aerobird

1- You can use the same transmitter with all your planes as long as the receivers in them are on the same frequency (and the same phase shift, meaning Hitec and Futaba RX's will work together and JR/AIR work together). To keep it simple- if you have a Hitec radio, use Hitec receivers. All you need to do is get the receiver crystal for it that is the same frequency as your radio. (In most cases you can't or shouldn't change the transmitter frequency!)

2- Since you sound pretty well set on getting one of these two planes, go for the Aerobird. Basically they're exactly the same plane, but the Aerobird has a proportional throttle and the T-Hawk only has an on/off switch.

3- Parkflyer of the month? I'm gonna take it that you mean for beginners. The short answer is the Slow Stick or Tiger Moth. For more details and the reason why, see my advice to newbies:
http://www.geocities.com/[email protected]/Newbies.html

Goofup
Old 02-04-2003, 07:05 AM
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MockV
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Default Thanks!

Wow! Your info on starting in rc was great. Thank you very much for all your help, Goofup. Your article gave me a few ideas on what I can do more research on while I'm building my kit.

I might go with the Tiger Moth. I just wanted something I could run to a park and fool around with. But that moth looks pretty sweet!

Thanks again for your help

MockV
Old 02-05-2003, 04:12 AM
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Default Opinions on T-Hawk vs. Aerobird

MockV,
I am a semi-experienced RCer and got a Tigermoth for Christmas. You can't go wrong with this plane for overall fun in a small space. If I were you, I would use the radio that you are planning on putting in the Aerostar in the Tigermoth. You will have to buy the flight pack with pico servos and electronic speed control, but then you can use the same radio with both planes. Also, hopefully you have joined the local R/C club. Get in touch with an instructor and have him test fly the Moth and give you some initial lessons. It will save you A LOT of time & money in repairs. Trust me. I learned to fly mostly on my own, but not after destroying a couple of planes.
Josh
Old 02-05-2003, 04:03 PM
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goofup
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Default Opinions on T-Hawk vs. Aerobird

jcoggins: very good post(!), but this vision popped into my head that I just got to pass on.

I'm picturing this guy showing up at the club field with his little Tiger Moth among all the huge fuelers, walking up to the club instructor and saying, "Can you check this out for me?". Taking pity on the poor guy, the instructor gets it airborne and then starts in on him. "What a tiny thing! It's got no power at all! You can't fly this in any kind of wind! You need to get you a real MAN'S plane. I can't even hear what the motor's doing!"

(All the while he's thinking, "Well I'll be- this thing flys pretty darn good! This is fun! I'm gonna have to get me one of these!")

Goofup

PS: FIY, I had to wait 2 weeks for my LHS to get Soarstars back in stock before I could get one. He was selling out all the time. I asked and you know who he was mostly selling them to? Guys at the IC flying clubs! He said they kind of "discovered" that they were fun to fly!
Old 02-06-2003, 01:15 AM
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jcoggins
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Default Opinions on T-Hawk vs. Aerobird

Goofup,
You are right! And I'll bet most of the fliers present will also be asking questions and getting interested. I never got into electric planes until now because it seemed like they required expensive, heavy battery packs and the flight times were not long enough to make it worth the money. That is a thing of the past. I get 30 minute flights out of my TM on a 8cell AAA Nimh battery pack that fits in the battery compartment nicely. None of my previous gas planes could fly for that long and if they could, there would be a lot of oil to clean off from it. Now there are LiPoly batteries that are even better than the Nimh. I think the biggest problem he will have at the field is trying to wrestle back the TX after the instructor starts flying the Moth ;-)
Old 02-07-2003, 09:08 PM
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aeajr
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Default Opinions on T-Hawk vs. Aerobird

In reference to your comments about the Areobird control set-up:

Originally posted by Goofup

Don't get either one!! Both use 27 mhz radios with reversed stick layouts compared to the "real" radio you'll use with the Aero-Star!
Goofup
Goofup, your advice is well taken, but you are wrong about the controls on the Areobird. This is a 3 channel set-up with rudder and elevator on the right stick and a slide throtle under the left thumb. Looks something like a Futaba 3FR FM:
http://www.futaba-rc.com/radios/futj52.html


Even though it is a V tai, it does have rudder and elevator functions, just like a real V tail plane.

If you like you can take a look at the manual. It can be downloaded here: Aerobird Manual

You are right that it is a 27 MHZ set-up, but I believe it works in a similar fashion to most of the 3 channel single stick systems I have seen.
Old 02-07-2003, 10:18 PM
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goofup
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Default Opinions on T-Hawk vs. Aerobird

AEAJR, you're right about the Aerobird stick layout! Thanks for correcting me. (Filing data in memory bank....) I think I picked up my info from lakedude (who has one), but I guess I got it wrong.

(I still don't trust 27 mhz radios... but that's just my experience talking).

Well, that makes the Aerobird an even better choice (wondering what Mock got....)

Goofup
Old 02-08-2003, 01:46 AM
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BillK
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Default Opinions on T-Hawk vs. Aerobird

You're wrong about the THawk too. You can buy it with their 27 Mhz radio or you can buy it without and use your own radio and receiver with their ESC and servos. I think it's around $115 for that. For that price you can add a radio and receiver for about the price of the Aerobird plus you'll have an extra wing, tail, and 2 batteries, and an extra prop or two.. The Aerobird comes with 1 battery and no extra wing, tail, or props. Then you'll have a nice 3 channel glider and you can use your radio in another plane. The coolest thing about these planes is flying it up as high as you dare and then just gliding it down for 10 minutes.
Old 02-08-2003, 04:19 AM
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kingcobraRCU
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Default hmmm...

in defense of the aerobird it is a very good starter plane...it is indeed a 3 channel as stated and has very good performance...it was my 2nd plane (1st was the skyzap, now that was a piece of crap) I flew the aerobird from the ground the first time and trimmed it myself and so far I have over 30 flights on it without 1 single mishap. one thing I DID do was move the pull points to the innermost holes on the v tail to get more throw...much better...it flies good even in moderate wind.... all I had from previous experience with 3 channel planes was from a pc flight sim...I also have a Superstar EP and a GWS P51 all ready and waiting for me when I get good enough for them...the Superstar EP is also a 3 channel but with more power (a 550 motor and sub c sized 8.4 pack) but is a wood kit and probably wont take a hit as well as my aerobird should I have one. so I am "earning my wings" on the aerobird...my friends have crashed theirs a few times and they are quite durable...well...that's my 2 cents...
Old 02-08-2003, 04:38 AM
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goofup
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Default Opinions on T-Hawk vs. Aerobird

Now, now. Your getting picky, Bill. Of course you can get the T-hawk without the radio and receiver and use your own. I was assuming that Mock would get their radio with it as he said nothing about putting his own in it and I was just warning him about the stick setup for practicing with.

In case you're wondering, I have a T-hawk and all this talk you hear about using their ESC with your own radio isn't quite what it's cracked up to be. I replaced their receiver with a Hitec 555 and was using that with a Hitec Flash 5X. The throttle only worked with the last 50% of stick movement. In other words, it wasn't until you get to 50% stick movement that the motor started turning. 100% stick got you 100% throttle. So yea, you can use their ESC to get proportional throttle, but it doesn't work like you'd expect it to!!

Since I knew that (because I did it), my advice still stands to Mock to get the Aerobird (between those two) because it was already set up with a proper proportional throttle, and, as we found out later, the proper stick setup.

Goofup
Old 02-08-2003, 08:40 AM
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Default Opinions on T-Hawk vs. Aerobird

Originally posted by Goofup
AEAJR, you're right about the Aerobird stick layout! Thanks for correcting me. (Filing data in memory bank....) I think I picked up my info from lakedude (who has one), but I guess I got it wrong.
(I still don't trust 27 mhz radios... but that's just my experience talking).
Well, that makes the Aerobird an even better choice (wondering what Mock got....)
Goofup
No problem! I am in research mode and learning from all of you folks. I think people have seen the other birds in this series which are two channel and don't realize the Aerobird is a three channel plane with a more conventional control layout. While it is a V tail is has rudder/elevator functions. I only know because I have been studying starter/low cost RTF planes, weighing the pros and cons and happen to download the Aerobird manual.

I haven't purchased my first plane yet, but I am getting close. Cold windy conditions in NY give me good reason to hold the purchase and study the options. I would like to stay under $200 if I can. I am not interested in kits to start off. I want a RTF or very very nearly ready to fly with all the electronics included.

I have been impressed with the support for these hobbyzone *bird planes. Lots of info available. Many sources and parts readily available. Seems many people are using them as starters. The Aerobird three channel, or the fighterbird two channel, is the next step up from the Firebird II or XL according to HobbyZone. HobbyZone doesn't recommend the Aerobird for the rank beginner like me. But I have a plan that I will outline below and would be grateful for your comments.

VALUE

The Aerobird is such a good value. For $170 I get a three channel plane with rudder,elevator, full speed control AND peak field charger rather than a wall time charger. Flight times are being reported as 10-15 minutes. Add $20 for a second battery and I am set and within budget. And you get these cool foil streamers which look like a kick. Might also slow the plane down somewhat for smaller areas.

If I look at other planes, to get the same thing, it takes a $280 to $330 investment. Granted the control system for the Areobird is 27 MHZ and won't fly another plane, but I am not sure I care about that. If I decide to stay with the sport, my first plane will be there for friends, or my kids, who I might want to bring along.

If I look at a T-Hawk, I get rudder, elevator, but no speed control and much shorter flight times with a 27 MHZ radio. A Sky Scooter has no speed control either. For both, reported flight times are in the 5-7 minute range. While the scooter has a 72 mhz radio, I am not likely to want to transfer a 2 channel radio to another plane. Both the T and the Scooter are similar in price at about $135 ready to fly. Add $20 for another battery and I am at $155. However both have wall time chargers, as I understand it, rather than field peak chargers so add another $35 for a peak field charger for $190.

The Sky Scooter Pro version, also $170, does look interesting as compared to the Aerobird. It does use a 3 channel 72 MHZ radio. It is a single foam piece and has the reputation of being very rugged but you can't replace anything if it breaks. You epoxy it back together. Not a bad thing. Not sure about what kind of charger it has. And, I don't know if I like the fact that there is no landing gear. Can't do runway take-offs and hard surface landings would not be good for it.

A concern with the Pro is that there doesn't seem to be any dihedral to the wing, so I am wondering how stable the Pro would be for a real beginner, like me. Also, it is an aileron plane, no rudder, and I am not sure how easy it will be to fly or how large an area it will require. My impression is that a rudder plane should be able to fly slower in a smaller area, all things being equal. An aileron plane should be more maneuverable is what I am reading.

Plan A - Open to comments

The Aerobird looks like it has the same body, similar weight and motor as the FirebirdXL, HobbyZone's two channel starter. The wing length 42 for the Aerobird vs 40 for the XL, but the XL has a polyhedral wing. Weight is within an ounce. Motor is a 380 vs a 400 for the XL.

I am thinking of getting the Aerobird but fitting a Firebird XL wing, which has lots of dihedral, to get started. The change in wing should make it more stable and probably slower. Then if I only use the throttle and left/right "rudder" features it should fly more like the beginner Firebird XL. Get me through my learning phase.

As I progress, I can go back to the Aerobird wing which will be faster and more maneuverable. For about $20 for the wing I progress from a 2 channel high dihedral wing config to a three channel "sport" wing all in the same plane. Since the radio has a conventional lay-out, skills learned here should translate to future planes.

So, for about $200 I get a three channel speed controlled plane that can do some basic stunts. It should take me through 2-3 seasons of learning and fun, assuming I don't destroy it.

Alternate plan - Start really small and cheap

As I am still very new to this, I could go for the real basic HobbyZone Firebird II at $90. Or I could get the very similar two channel Toytronics e-Gull for about $90 which has more in the kit for a better value. These are slower starter planes. I could learn on one of these, then put it aside for friends. They have unconventional control layouts so there would be some relearning. If I like RC flying, I can go for a 3-4 channel plane/radio later for $350 to $500.

For $100 I get a basic, easy to fly plan that can do circles and not much else, but provide a good learning experience. A plane that I hope to outgrow in a season or less.

As for 27 MHZ, I hear that a lot but I am not sure yet how well logic translates to fact in this case. I hear concerns about interference, but no one that I have spoken to has had a problem. Only downside seems to be that there are only 6 channels available so which ever one you buy, you are stuck with it. Not sure that is an issue, but I am aware of it.

I would love to hear any comments on these plans. Let the arrows fly guys.
Old 02-08-2003, 03:25 PM
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kingcobraRCU
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Default all good points...

one thing though....you won't need to switch the wing on the aerobird to the firebird XL wing...the plane is VERY stable...you let go of the controls and it levels itself (properly trimmed of course) the dihedral doesn't appear to be an issue with it...and if you keep the control throws like they come when you buy it, it is very forgiving...and it's not a fast plane, unless you are going into a dive...the 380 is perfect power for beginners...just enough...but when you get better with it they offer a v-tail with bigger control surfaces, a speedbar (spacer you put under the tail edge of the main wing) and a 7 cell pack....those really increase the performance...and the replacement parts are very reasonably priced...(wing $14, v-tail $8 and replacement fuselage $45) the only thing I say is annoying is whenever my friends crash land the wing turns on the top of the fuselage and the prop takes a big chunk out of it...remedy: put velcro on the bottom of the wing and the top of the fuselage where they connect....(still use the rubber bands too) and it will reduce the chances of this happening...
Old 02-08-2003, 06:02 PM
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Default Opinions on T-Hawk vs. Aerobird

kingcobra

Thanks for your input. I really want to go to the Aerobird, but have been so sensitive to the fact that it is not recommended for beginners. If it is not too fast, that really works for me. Add the speed shim and the battery later and I am all set. Great!

Aeorbird Video

For me it looks like the best overall package but I was concerned about speed and stability. Your note addressed both.

Your comments and input are VERY valuable. Perhaps others who have an Aerobird will give me their thoughts.

Now, I wonder if there is a port on the receiver that will allow me to attach the Fighterbird sonic gun. My friend with the FirebirdXL discovered that his receiver in FirebirdXL has the port, but there was no hole in the body for it. He bought the sonic gun and cut a whole for the connector. Now his son and he have dogfights with a Firebird XL and the Fighterbird.

If I could do that with the Aerobird, it would close the deal. My original target was the Fighterbird because I liked the idea of air to air combat without streamers or other physical devices. However I would really like to have elevator too.

Any thoughts on this? Want to take a look inside your Aerobird and tell me if there is a port on the main control board, probably on the plane's right side of the controller/receiver?
Old 02-08-2003, 06:43 PM
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Default sure!

I'll check it out and get back to you...
Old 02-08-2003, 06:55 PM
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Default hmmm...

I pulled out the foam in front of the mainboard and used a flashlight to see better but unfortunatly the new board has 2 microservos made into it and the motors stick out on the right side also...there is no way to see if the plug is on the bottom of the board underneith them...it could be but I would have to pull out the main board to be sure....and it means undoing the control lines at the v-tail and pulling them into the boom...not sure if I can get them back out the other end again...kinda risky...how is the sonic cannon fired? is it run by a 3rd channel? I haven't seen one so I don't know...
Old 02-08-2003, 07:38 PM
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Default Opinions on T-Hawk vs. Aerobird

kingcobra

Don't take your plane apart to answer my question.

The fighterbird sonic gun is fired from the throttle channel. As I understand it, you pull the throttle all the way to off, and it fires a 1-2 second sonic burst which, if you are close enough to the back of the other plane, is picked up by that plane.

The target plane loses engine for a few seconds and there is a tone emitted to show the hit. He retains rudder control however and the plan glides pretty well, so as long as you aren't in a dive or near the ground, you should be able to glide, recover engine and go back for revenge.

Check out this link for a review and video of fighterbird combat! It looks like soooooo much fun!

Fighter Bird Review with links to video
Old 02-09-2003, 02:45 AM
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Default Opinions on T-Hawk vs. Aerobird

My first plane was a Firebird XL. It was a great plane to get in the air, but bringing it down was a different story. If the wind was a little to high I needed to put it in a spiral or risk it flying away . This plane has been used and abused, but it still flies, although I have had to replace the wing twice and the tail 3 times. I decided that I had had enough of the "give it throttle it goes up, let off the throttle it flies away" business. So...I too have recently gone through the "which plane to buy" stage. The conclusion to my search made me the proud owner of an Aerobird. I can now fly my plane with confidence in the same kind of winds that would bring my XL to the ground.

My best recommendation for any purchase is to create a filter list of minimum specifications that the product must meet. Then run each product through the filter. Your list will probably differ from mine.

Beside the fact that my XL battery will work in my Aerobird I used the following criteria to choose my first 3 channel airplane:

1. Must be electric (at this time I don't have a major interest in glow)
2. Needs to be a pusher prop (I don't want to replace my prop and engine every time I have a rough landing)
3. Must have a proportional throttle (this extends the flight time and allows for slower low altitude flights)
4. My LHS must carry replacement parts
5. Cannot be made from balsa (plastic and foam are much more forgiving and easy to repair)
6. Needs to be ready to fly and cost less than $200

The following were not the only planes I considered, but they were the main contenders.

I probably would have gone with the T-Hawk just because of all the spare parts it comes with, but it does not come stock with proportional throttle control and I did not want to invest in a separate radio at this point nor did I want to do any building.

The Wingo also seemed like a good choice, but I have read that the foam body doesn't handle damage that well and I don't care for the look of the plane either.

The Sky Scooter Pro was a contender, but I could not overcome the nose mounted prop at this time.


Tips for the Aerobird:

1. Tape the leading and trailing edges of the wing with clear packing tape. This will keep the wing from chipping on impact with branches and makes it more resistant to "prop chew" on rough landings. I didn't worry about taping the tail. I noticed with my XL tail that it would tend to bend more than split and this required it to be replaced rather than be repaired.

2. Set the control wires to the lowest setting on the control horns this makes the plane much easier to maneuver.

3. When you reset the control wires (tip 2) put the battery in the plane and turn on the transmitter. This allows you adjust the control surfaces under the same conditions that you will be flying with.

I will give a review of the X-Pack (7 cell battery and tail with larger control surfaces) in the near future.

Dan
Old 02-09-2003, 05:03 AM
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Default Opinions on T-Hawk vs. Aerobird

Yodasands

This is sage advice you provide. I have not flown yet, but my friend as an XL and a fighterbird upon which he has promised me some training.

My filters are almost the same as yours and I have come to the conclusion that the Aerobird is my best choice as well.

I will look forward to your report on the upgrade.
Old 02-10-2003, 09:09 AM
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MockV
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Default Holy Cow!

First of all, just one word to describe this thread...

WOW

I didn't expect all this to be brought up at first. Everyone has brought up great advice, tips and warnings about the Aerobird. I'm glad to see that because between the Firebird XL and the Aerobird, I was leaning more towards the Aerobird. I like the way it flies and the look of it.

Now I need to find a way to get this plane AND all the other supplies/equipment for my Aero-Star! Anyone got any ideas on how to get this past the wifey? lol

Thanks again for all the advice. Going to start building the trainer soon too. Can't wait!

MockV
Old 02-10-2003, 01:52 PM
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aeajr
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Default Opinions on T-Hawk vs. Aerobird

MockV

Here is some simple advice on the wifey.

1) Valentines's day is coming up. For around $90 you can get a Firebird II or an e-Gull. These are two channel planes that come with everything and are super easy to fly. You said you wanted something to fly while you build your trainer. These are about as easy as you get, and as cheap as you can go to get into the air with something that flys.

So, why not have her get you one of these as a "practice plane" for Valentine's day....because she loves you. ( it gets better)

Or, you could get one for HER because you love her and you want to share in this new interest with her. You can learn to fly it together. (this might not go over as well)

Now for the method.

If you want her to be supportive of your flying hobby, you can learn to fly Firebird II or e-Gull together. They are supposed to be SOOOOO simple to fly anyone can do it. Now she is in the air and you have two planes, so you can fly together. SOOOOO ROMANTIC!

Then when you want to buy more airplane stuff, it is for the both of you. And, if there are kids in the house, they can use the firebird and keep their hands off YOUR plane.

Of course if you are flying to get out of the house .... alone .... this will not get it done!

Give it a thought though!
Old 02-11-2003, 04:24 AM
  #24  
kingcobraRCU
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Default lol....hahaha!!!

crazy.....but it just might work....well I purchased the 7 cell pack for the aerobird and tried it out sunday....WOW...I cant believe 1 cell made that much of a difference...but it did...I HAD 2- 6 cells and then I got the 7 cell...after flying with the 7 cell I tried to fly with the 6 again and it left me wanting more...so I took a single cell out of one of my 6 cells and soldered it to the other 6 cell pack so now I have 2- 7 cell packs....the only way to go...the plane took off from the ground in less than 15 feet....had more power to fight the strong winds and lasted just as long as the 6 cell packs....I am now on my 47th flight with the aerobird and not 1 crash yet....it's that easy to fly...(I'm not that good yet so it's not me)hehe....happy flying...
Old 02-11-2003, 04:32 AM
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aeajr
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Default Opinions on T-Hawk vs. Aerobird

kingcobra,

You are making me crazy. It is 28 degrees here in NY and there is snow falling, wind wiping.

I was in a hobby store today and almost bought the aerobird. Now I read your post and I am sorry I didn't.

Soon! I think I will buy the bird and the hop up kit which has the 7 cell pack rather than getting two 6 cell packs.

What charger do you use? The one that came with the plane? Is there a way to charge the batteries in the house with that charger?

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