Illegal?
05-01-2007, 12:35 PM
#1
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Illegal?
So I was flying my SuperCub, Stryker F27C being shipped as I type. My backyard connects directly to my city's largest/open park. About 6 soccer fields, a frisbee golf course, 2-3 baseball diamonds, 2 parking lots, walking path, etc... I usually just fly around the soccer fields, and land on them since I'm fairly new. Today, I decided to land in a parking lot(went very smoothly twice). As I was walking back home, a city worker(kinda a manager) says it's illegal to fly planes "back there"(parking lot connected to baseball diamonds). I don't know if he meant the whole park in general, I've seen someone else fly there before, and me and my brother have both flown a good 10-20 times with no trouble.
Just wondering why it'd be illegal... I can see not flying when soccer games are going on and such, but how could it be dangerous to people or property?
This was kinda a vent, but also curious as to if anybody else has had this problem. Perfect flying area with no people around and they don't want us to fly there. Plus I just walk out my back yard.
Just wondering why it'd be illegal... I can see not flying when soccer games are going on and such, but how could it be dangerous to people or property?
This was kinda a vent, but also curious as to if anybody else has had this problem. Perfect flying area with no people around and they don't want us to fly there. Plus I just walk out my back yard.
05-01-2007, 05:26 PM
#2
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RE: Illegal?
If the police do not run you off, continue flying. At least that is what I would do. It sounds like someone has an ego problem and it isn't you.
If the same person approaches you again, ask them for the name of the ordnance, etc., so that your lawyer can check it out and help you get it changed. Or have them recommend a contact person for the city/township that you can get in touch with over the matter.
I've met too many power hungry beureaucrats (sp?) in my time to just take their word for it on such a matter.
Ed Cregger
If the same person approaches you again, ask them for the name of the ordnance, etc., so that your lawyer can check it out and help you get it changed. Or have them recommend a contact person for the city/township that you can get in touch with over the matter.
I've met too many power hungry beureaucrats (sp?) in my time to just take their word for it on such a matter.
Ed Cregger
05-02-2007, 05:04 PM
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RE: Illegal?
Try contacting your local flying club and make sure that there aren't any ordinances against flying in public parks in your area. It's possible that a local field has received permission to fly in one spot as long as they stay out of public parks or something similar. Other than that I would just suggest being as polite as possible with the city workers as it really wouldn't take much for the city to agree with them and shut you out of public parks. A little courtesy goes a long way.
05-03-2007, 09:23 PM
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RE: Illegal?
I live in Sacramento, CA and model airplanes are mentioned in Chapter 9.36 PARK REGULATIONS under "Games".
http://municipalcodes.lexisnexis.com...ATIONS.html#35
9.36.068 Games.
The playing of rough or comparatively dangerous games such as football, baseball, horseshoes, soccer or of any games involving thrown, hit, or otherwise propelled objects such as golf balls, balls of other description, stones, arrows, javelins, or model airplanes is prohibited except in fields, courts, or areas specifically provided therefor or, with express permission of the director, in areas compatible to said use. Persons desiring to use a park facility for the specific purpose for which the facility was established shall have priority of use over persons using said facility for another nonproscribed purpose. (SCC 36 § 2 (part), 1971.)
Now. It sounds like YOU CAN in:[ul][*] fields and courts as well as specific areas for flying if any[*] other compatible areas to fly in (with permission from a park facility director)[*] facilities not specific to flying (soccer field) UNTIL the soccer moms want to use it. Those people HAVE PRORITY in such areas.
[/ul]
http://municipalcodes.lexisnexis.com...ATIONS.html#35
9.36.068 Games.
The playing of rough or comparatively dangerous games such as football, baseball, horseshoes, soccer or of any games involving thrown, hit, or otherwise propelled objects such as golf balls, balls of other description, stones, arrows, javelins, or model airplanes is prohibited except in fields, courts, or areas specifically provided therefor or, with express permission of the director, in areas compatible to said use. Persons desiring to use a park facility for the specific purpose for which the facility was established shall have priority of use over persons using said facility for another nonproscribed purpose. (SCC 36 § 2 (part), 1971.)
[/ul]
05-03-2007, 09:27 PM
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RE: Illegal?
Sinai, that is so open ended. They rank planes along with Football and soccer... looks like your fine flying in a soccer field until someone shows up with a soccer ball...
Andy
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05-03-2007, 09:31 PM
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RE: Illegal?
No kidding. That's exactly it. But until then it's OPEN Ended enough to tell the grounds keeper I can still fly here. BUT WHO protects our rights to fly in parks? (Can of worms). I mean does an AMA membership help here?
Also, from the above ordinance, we have to get permission from the "director"??? It's ultimately open ended in favor of the city's right to kick us out.
Limit,
The best you can do in your town is find the ordinances online to see if you ARE prohibited. And more than anything be responsible (avoid buzzing people, etc.) It's not like we're making a lot of noise or endangering parked cars are we? One irresponsible day in the park's air can bring the soccer moms to complain and that's even WORSE than bowing out gracefully when I see them showing up to play.
Also, from the above ordinance, we have to get permission from the "director"??? It's ultimately open ended in favor of the city's right to kick us out.
Limit,
The best you can do in your town is find the ordinances online to see if you ARE prohibited. And more than anything be responsible (avoid buzzing people, etc.) It's not like we're making a lot of noise or endangering parked cars are we? One irresponsible day in the park's air can bring the soccer moms to complain and that's even WORSE than bowing out gracefully when I see them showing up to play.
05-04-2007, 09:42 AM
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RE: Illegal?
become buds with the soccer president and be really nice to his kids and all kidsd tell them you will keep an eye out for vamdals and partiers. They will let you fly then. the groundskeeper probably a frustrated guy whose wife said he cant fly!.. Its public land and you can fly as long as no games are going on. I fly 1/5 gas giants at our soccer complex over 20 years not a complaint. I was nioce the the director and the cops stop by and watch too!
05-04-2007, 02:25 PM
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RE: Illegal?
The view from across the Pond. I've been stopped once by a guy walking his dog, (drunk at 10am, him not the dog!!) who said it was illegal and should be at flying club 20 miles up in the hills. I was polite and pointed out that the 8 football pitches not being used, not near any houses/businesses or schools. he got annoyed (or was it the alcohol!!) so I asked him if he had a licence for his dog (UK law) and would he be cleaning up the pile of dog sh...t he had left on field. Lots of swearing etc but he sidled off muttering - pubs were now open. Did research on insurance in UK - anybody who has a household policy is OK. Example: your house doesn't move, but during a storm a tile flys off roof and hits property or the guy walking his dog - you're covered. I used to be in insurance before early retirement. Fly man, just fly!! 
05-04-2007, 05:12 PM
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RE: Illegal?
Well, in reading the original post, it sounds like the poster was flying over a parking lot. If that's the case, that's probably not the best place to fly. Especially if there are cars parked there. The groundskeeper might have found a more polite way of saying it, but he could have very well meant "Don't fly there when it's in use." but came across more gruff than needed.
05-04-2007, 05:32 PM
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RE: Illegal?
Agreed! I (probably like yourself and the majority), am very aware of safety. I have a choice of 5 parks/open space places to fly. The best one is on a slope facing prevalent wind direction, but only problem is the pidgeon lofts nearby ( we call them "Dooos"). i don't fly too near them and especially if the owners are around (they're bigger and harder than I)!! I just drive on to the next site and so on. Luckily (unluckily?) i'm insomniac needing only 3 hrs sleep so most of my best times are sun up away from houses. Be flexible, be sure, be safe. Save the flying for everyone, we don't all want to join clubs. Oh well, back to building work - 2 new strykers and vid platform Predator to finish!! [8D]
[8D]
05-04-2007, 06:37 PM
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RE: Illegal?
The park where I fly the slow stick is around the corner, it also house the childrens center. I don't go over before 5-5:30. I want to fly below the radar so to speak. I can always fly aces at home. My theory is not to make waves, and I'll be OK. Of course I live in a town of 1500, so getting on someones case without a good reason gets around pretty quick.
Tim
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05-04-2007, 06:57 PM
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RE: Illegal?
Thats exactly my outlook, there's no one up at 5am and the winds are perfect. 1500 in a town? I believe only one bad accident could spoil it for everyone, you know what the press are like! Been laid low for 4 weeks after minor op but might sneak out tomorrow under wife's radar and catch a few passes in park. FYI there's a cool thread "Australia something" - great guys, good vids and the weather is Wow. When they say they're park flyers their "park" is the size of Scotland and California roled into one. Lucky eh!!![&o][X(]
[&o][X(]
05-04-2007, 07:02 PM
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RE: Illegal?
ORIGINAL: Limit
Just wondering why it'd be illegal... I can see not flying when soccer games are going on and such, but how could it be dangerous to people or property?
Just wondering why it'd be illegal... I can see not flying when soccer games are going on and such, but how could it be dangerous to people or property?
05-04-2007, 07:24 PM
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RE: Illegal?
understandable. But it wasn't populated...at all... until that worker drove passed, and my plane was already in my arms by the time he drove passed. Not a single car in that parking lot, it was the first time I was back there to land on concrete.
05-05-2007, 02:28 AM
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RE: Illegal?
Bad News Limit. Here's the link to your town's MUNICIPAL CODE and a QUOTE FROM CHAPTER 11.171. Check out #(10) below.
http://www.ci.watertown.wi.us/
http://www.ci.watertown.wi.us/
11.171 MISCELLANEOUS CONDUCT. (Cr. #97-59) It shall be unlawful for any person in a park or recreation area
to:
(1) Camp or stay overnight anywhere without prior permission of the Director, except in areas designated for
camping or staying overnight in vehicles or trailers.
(2) Take part in the playing of any games involving horseshoes, weighted darts, bows and arrows, spears,
stones or other propelled objects except in those areas designated for such forms of recreation.
(3) Use roller skates, skateboards, bicycle or inline skate on any park structures, picnic tables, playground
equipment or retaining walls.
(4) Enter an area posted as "closed to the public."
(5) Engage in threatening, abusive, insulting or indecent language or engage in any disorderly conduct or
behavior tending to breach the public peace, or cause a disturbance.
(6) Fail to produce and exhibit any permit a person claims to have, upon request of any authorized person
who shall desire to inspect the same for the purpose of enforcing compliance with any ordinance or rule, including
park attendants, law enforcement officials or firefighters.
(7) Disturb or interfere unreasonably with any person or party occupying any area or participating in any
activity whether or not under the authority of a permit.
(8) Erect or occupy any tent, stand or other structure in any park or recreation areas without permission of the
Director requiring ground stakes longer than twelve inches (12") in length.
(9) Operate or ride any bicycle, roller skates, skateboards or inline skates on that portion of the sidewalk
adjacent to the Watertown Aquatic Center at Riverside Park extending from the cul-de-sac at Perry Street to the
entrance of the Watertown Aquatic Center, a distance of 225 feet.
(10) Fly or launch any model airplanes, radio-controlled airplanes or model rockets other than in areas
designated for such activities.
to:
(1) Camp or stay overnight anywhere without prior permission of the Director, except in areas designated for
camping or staying overnight in vehicles or trailers.
(2) Take part in the playing of any games involving horseshoes, weighted darts, bows and arrows, spears,
stones or other propelled objects except in those areas designated for such forms of recreation.
(3) Use roller skates, skateboards, bicycle or inline skate on any park structures, picnic tables, playground
equipment or retaining walls.
(4) Enter an area posted as "closed to the public."
(5) Engage in threatening, abusive, insulting or indecent language or engage in any disorderly conduct or
behavior tending to breach the public peace, or cause a disturbance.
(6) Fail to produce and exhibit any permit a person claims to have, upon request of any authorized person
who shall desire to inspect the same for the purpose of enforcing compliance with any ordinance or rule, including
park attendants, law enforcement officials or firefighters.
(7) Disturb or interfere unreasonably with any person or party occupying any area or participating in any
activity whether or not under the authority of a permit.
(8) Erect or occupy any tent, stand or other structure in any park or recreation areas without permission of the
Director requiring ground stakes longer than twelve inches (12") in length.
(9) Operate or ride any bicycle, roller skates, skateboards or inline skates on that portion of the sidewalk
adjacent to the Watertown Aquatic Center at Riverside Park extending from the cul-de-sac at Perry Street to the
entrance of the Watertown Aquatic Center, a distance of 225 feet.
(10) Fly or launch any model airplanes, radio-controlled airplanes or model rockets other than in areas
designated for such activities.
05-05-2007, 03:32 AM
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RE: Illegal?
Hiya Sinai, I'm following this with interest and it's obvious to everyone you've done a great job at your own expense in time - Thanks!! I'm worried now that if that applies to just one town what are the chances for other areas, other countries. I think that Limit was just unlucky that time - wrong place, wrong time, wrong official!! I've made my views obvious on other threads - I don't like clubs, they're OK for some, not for me. £60 fees to wait for 10 minutes flight in 3 hour period, c'mon, get real. I, personally will up my level of awareness now (it was very good before anyway). Maybe RCU should issue a warning at the start and finish of every page to remind the ones that need remindin. Sorry for the long winded rant but it ad to be said - going flying later (safely!!)
)
05-05-2007, 08:45 PM
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RE: Illegal?
I just saw this thread and ironically my son and I went out driving around our town (35K people here in Coppell, TX) looking for a place to fly a Park Flyer. We don't have a Park Flyer, but like a lot of you, the local official flying field is a bit of a jaunt so I figured "Hey, we'll get one of those little electric planes and fly in a park" - but I better find a park first! After reading this I FINALLY found an ordinace much like above prohibiting the flying of model airplanes in all Coppell city parks. Our only alternative is to head out behind one of the many warehouse business parks (generally vacant on weekends) and fly from their parkign lots over the open fields (not city parks) they back up to. Of course, all it will take is one of the company employees to walk out and tell us to leave, but it's either that or make the trip to the field. I always wondered about "park" flyers, since I could not imagine that most cities would want a bunch of RC aircraft flying around (seems like I see someone crash almost EVERY time I'm at the club field - what city would want to risk it for the tiny percentage of folks that fly), and they aren't going to invest a bunch of time trying to figure out if plane "A", might be OK but not plane "B" (and even a "slow" park flyer can be dangerous).
05-05-2007, 11:41 PM
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RE: Illegal?
Limit, your fate is sealed. Look at number 10 here as well:
http://www.ci.watertown.wi.us/Park%2...nformation.htm
http://www.ci.watertown.wi.us/Park%2...nformation.htm
05-06-2007, 12:27 AM
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RE: Illegal?
Gentlemen, more people get hurt by "acceptable activities", baseball, football, soccer, frisbee games, running, then we get to city owned issues, slides, swings, teeter totters, spinning plate thingies, bike paths, skate board parks. I would have to pitch a b***** if they told me I could not fly in town. Then I would get a contingency lawyer. Tim
05-06-2007, 02:02 AM
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RE: Illegal?
Hiya Ferndale, Sinai and co. I'm gonna make this my last post here about park flying cos I've got valuable building time beckoning - 3 Strykers, Predator and ME262 to finish. Here goes. I don't see any views here I don't agree with. The laws are for safety reasons (children especially), and yes, whatever the activity in a park someone is going to get hurt and lawyers will be employed, and the majority of flyers might suffer. We must be polite (when possible) to "officialdom" and to promote our sport/hobby in a positive way. To fly in a crowded space is a no-no (accidents will happen, you can't control the wind!!). Yes I would love to join a club but their times, prices and smell of nitro brings tears to my eyes!! My suggestion - start your own electric club with official blessing. I, personally, will fly till I'm told not to, move on and try somewhere else etc etc. Anyway, I luuurrrve this sport and won't spoil it for anyone else! Nuff said. Byeee guys, the blue Yonder calls!!![8D]
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