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F27 STRYKER -Way Past the Limits Part 6 -Go deeper in to the Dark Side...

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Old 07-04-2007, 11:07 AM
  #1
Gryphon
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Default F27 STRYKER -Way Past the Limits Part 6 -Go deeper in to the Dark Side...

Hi all,
Traditionally after about 100 pages or so a new thread has been started. I was selected to start this one.

If you have a question or comment regarding the F-27 Stryker, this is the place for it. We will either answer your questions or help point you in the right direction.

We also try to help people get into the DARK SIDE, or give them a helping hand in going deeper into the DARK SIDE.

DARK SIDE wants you all ……………………………Muhhhahahahahahha

Remember the following:

Safety first.
Measure three times - cut once.
The only stupid question is the one left unasked.
Don't forget to read that red lettered blurb above the posting box.

ABOVE ALL, be nice to each other.

Past Threads:
[link=http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_2166480/mpage_1/key_stryker/tm.htm]Part 1[/link] - 9/12/2004 to 5/6/2005 - 2281 posts
[link=http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_2947262/mpage_1/key_stryker%2Cpast/tm.htm]Part 2[/link] - 5/6/2005 to 7/22/2005 - 1860 posts
[link=http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_3191424/tm.htm]Part 3[/link] - 7/23/2005 to 1/6/2006 - 2189 posts
[link=http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_3738912/mpage_1/key_/tm.htm]Part 4[/link] – 1/6/2006 to 11/22/2006 – 2597 posts
[link=http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_5024519/tm.htm]Part 5[/link] – 11/21/2006 to 7/4/2007 – 2511 posts

11438 posts to date on this bird... and going strong.


Lets pick up where we left off on “Way Past the Limits - Part 5”

Have fun,
Gryphon
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Old 07-04-2007, 12:28 PM
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Default RE: F27 STRYKER - Way Past the Limits Part 6 - Step deeper in to the Dark Side...

Well I promise to get mine built in this thread....lol. I wish I could have done it in the last one but hey.....time is in short supply lately. I will make time very soon....I promise. [] Kevin
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Old 07-04-2007, 01:09 PM
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Default RE: F27 STRYKER -Way Past the Limits Part 6 -Go deeper in to the Dark Side...

Lord Gryphon

Congrats on your new calling. I have been hanging around here for a few years. Long enough to know you have very big shoes to fill. But at the same time I have seen how helpful you have been to others. You are going to make a great Elder. The force is strong in you!!!! Use it well ..........

JIM
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Old 07-04-2007, 07:47 PM
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Default RE: F27 STRYKER -Way Past the Limits Part 6 -Go deeper in to the Dark Side...

what is the cheapest motor you guys recommend that i can use on the e-flite 25amps ESC?

Thanks,
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Old 07-04-2007, 10:01 PM
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Default RE: F27 STRYKER -Way Past the Limits Part 6 -Go deeper in to the Dark Side...

i live for 3D,

It would help if you clarified further on what you are looking for.

Do you want that motor for more climbing or speed?
Do you care if you have to do some work to get it installed? Or does it have to be a drop in fit.

Do you mean most power you can have for a motor on the cheaper side that would still work with that ESC? What is your approximate budget?

Because if you just want the cheapest motor that will keep that bird airborne then that would be a different story.

Details.....

Gryphon
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Old 07-04-2007, 11:11 PM
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Default RE: F27 STRYKER -Way Past the Limits Part 6 -Go deeper in to the Dark Side...

Too tired to read over the end of the last thread or into this one yet, but wanted to say congradulations to Gryphon. You are pushing the dark side into ever reaching corners of...So beat I lost my train of thought. Let's keep it simple...Mack'em out people! Congrats again...

Will read/reply where needed later. Just spent a better part of the night finishing off this Big'N monster for AP work. 6 foot wingspan. 35-36 1100 k/v Hextroniks motor, swinging a 10x7 APC E and producing 48 ounces of thrust at 25 amps. Haven't flown it yet but GREAT motor for $25 when building larger planes. Very good quality. Chrome finish (can't get over how good it looks). All hardware & prop mount. Doesn't get hot at all. Very efficient. It kicks an Axi's **s when you consider the Axi it's an equiv. of is about $130! United Hobbies also sells higher k/v versions (up to 1450 or so, I think) of this motor, so it would be good for some type of very large jet. Like maybe a larger Stryker build (HINT HINT). Pictures DO NOT do the plane justice. Don't know if it was the lighting or what but the paint looks "glazed" and there is some odd texturing going on in the photo. I aint no artist but it don't look this bad! Almost waited until I could get some better pictures outside in day light but what the heck...Notice the Aero Ace for size comparison. If you want more details on this plane go to the foamies forum and look for a rather large thread I created with "Free" and "Simple" in the tittle. Must....go....to....bed...
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Old 07-05-2007, 12:13 AM
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Default RE: F27 STRYKER -Way Past the Limits Part 6 -Go deeper in to the Dark Side...

can i build a cheaper, better brushless setup with radio,rec servos batt, charger,etc or should i just get the "c" model$260 ish and be happy with there electronics pkg ? . i have a pz p-51 now and am tempted to strip the 3 channel electronics for a brushed "b" setup for $ 85 ish one more good crash left in ol franke though after extreme taping wing and some nose surgury
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Old 07-05-2007, 07:05 AM
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Default RE: F27 STRYKER -Way Past the Limits Part 6 -Go deeper in to the Dark Side...

Well good luck with part 6.

Don't forget to have one of the Mods. move the Stryker Resources box to this one.


Oh and if anyone gets the chance I believe it's the latest issue of Quite Flyer that has an article on the Stryker C, and of course a step into the Dark Side mod. Their hop up clocks 103 level flight.
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Old 07-05-2007, 09:45 AM
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Default RE: F27 STRYKER -Way Past the Limits Part 6 -Go deeper in to the Dark Side...

Have to go to work so still no time to read and reply yet (I did print out the last few pages from the old thread and this one to read over a cup of coffee). By the way, kind'a sad to see the old thread slowly sink down the page as it gets older. Sort'a like a sinking ship that had to be set adrift. [] Wanted to throw this up real quick...

Did the wing loading on the Big'N just now. Can't remember if the wing width near the tips is 7 or 8" (before the angle cuts to the 6" tips), but either way even at 7" the wing surface area is 564 and the wing loading is only 15.319 ready to fly. That's right at Trainer range. If I use 8" it's 14.418 ounces of loading per square foot (getting in the glider area). My two wireless setups only weigh a few ounces. Pocket camcorder is like 2 to 5 ounces, so even with one of those in use the plane will still be trainer range.

Picking up some servo plug locks today to prevent them coming unplugged in flight. Could use tape after plugging them in but that'll be a pain to deal with every time I assemble the plane. Got to paint some black stripes on this thing. Think it will make it look way better. Plane still doesn't look as good as in person. This camera must not like red or something. A few more pictures...

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Old 07-05-2007, 12:31 PM
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Default RE: F27 STRYKER -Way Past the Limits Part 6 -Go deeper in to the Dark Side...

I posted this over in my Bullet Proof thread as well only because anything I feel worth keeping for quick reference by Stryker owners gets thrown on that pile. That's why I steal a post or two from here to throw over there when I see something of interest.

The votes are in on the Tyvek tape. I LOVE the stuff over clear tape. Sticks better, easier to apply without wrinkling, about the same weight, etc. Price is high at around $12 but you do get 60 yards, and that's a lot. Look in the foam insulation section of Home Depot or Lowes. I'd still use Extreme for the major strength areas as covered in this thread.

Been doing some surfing on United Hobbies and saw some stuff of interest for cheapies like me. First, for those wanting a cheap computer radio along with RX, servos, speed control YOU CAN'T BEAT THIS PRICE. $59!

https://www.unitedhobbies.com/UNITED...idProduct=5310

Some more items of interest...

They are now selling HXT motor kits for custom winding. Haven't looked at them all yet but I'm sure something should prove useful for Stryker fans...

https://www.unitedhobbies.com/UNITED...idProduct=5344

Here's the KA450H motor. Although it's about half the price of Donsrc.com, Don has this motor custom wound to a lower K/V (2700, I think) that would prove more well suited for Stryker owners. While a stock Stryker body will work fine with it, shave the sucker down and you'll get even more killer speed. Can't remember if it'll do unlimited V but figure it will, even on my 27 ounce bird. I would use Don's version on a Stryker. The higher United Hobbies k/v version would be better for smaller platforms probably.

https://www.unitedhobbies.com/UNITED...idProduct=5246

Of course you can't pass up the cheapest lipo prices on the planet. The 3 cell 20C 2200ma packs that many of us Stryker owners use are even lower in price now at $29. Everybody loved these HXT packs last year but over the winter they seemed to have a bad batch with puffing problems. The issue is supposed to be resolved now, and if you do have one puff you simply Email them a picture of it for a replacement without needing to ship them the old one.

https://www.unitedhobbies.com/UNITED...idProduct=2045

Here's some HS81 equiv. HXT servos that I've heard nothing but good things about. A little slower (I think) than the HS81, but considering you can buy these METAL GEAR servos for the price of a metal gear replacement gear set for a HS81MG, you might as well get these. I'm pretty sure these are the closest match to the HS81 in size and performance, though there might be another servo on there that is closer. Check the community resources forums on there and look for a thread called HS81MG or something similar. Some guy also did some testing of these two servos compared to the HS81. I haven't had steller luck with my HS81 servos. Mainly, I've had dirty or bad pots on like 4 out of 6 of mine. I still like them but it's cheapies for me for now on from UH.

https://www.unitedhobbies.com/UNITED...idProduct=3609

While not really suitable for a Stryker, I must mention these two servos which are great replacements for the HS55 from what I've read. They are the HXT500 and HXT900. The HXT900 is somewhere around an HS55 to HS81 size. I've heard of it being used in place of the HS81 on a Stryker but I wouldn't suggest it. They are good for slower/lighter birds or builds that won't be putting as much stress on the controls like the Stryker does. Note that there are cheaper copies of these servos out there, like the Tower Pro SG90 (I have these and they are good), but the HXT United Hobbies versions are said to have better components. For the price ($3 or so) you can't pass these up. Many people like them better than HS55s.

https://www.unitedhobbies.com/UNITED...?idProduct=663

https://www.unitedhobbies.com/UNITED...?idProduct=662

If anybody has experience with any other cheap servos on there or other sites that might more closely match HS81s please post it.

Of course I've got to list the cheapest 30 amp speed control on the planet, which works well with motor Stryker motor options. $15. Instructions don't come with them and the proper ones can be hard to find on the net. Other than that I've had no problems with them. If you pay a little more at donsrc.com you'll get a Pentium speed control that has more features, easier programming, smoother throttle response, and all around better quality.

https://www.unitedhobbies.com/UNITED...?idProduct=658

Then there are receivers. I'd highly suggest dual conversion or at least full range ones for the Stryker. I admit to running cheap GWS RXs in mine and never lost control at some VERY far out distances, but this isn't smart on a brushless bird at Stryker speeds. No particular brand, though I hear the Coronas are good and very cheap at around $15 to $24.

https://www.unitedhobbies.com/UNITED...=116&curPage=2

And then there is the motors, of which I'm still sorting them out to produce a comparison chart. But here's the current most popular cheapie for the Stryker, the 2409-12T. I'd also check into the "D" version because I hear it is built better, not to mention looking much better. Haven't heard any cons to it's configuration versus a "T" yet? Same motor specs otherwise.

https://www.unitedhobbies.com/UNITED...4&ParentCat=59

Of course some of these items can be found on other sites and at the same or near price. For instance, I think you can combo a motor and ESC from Balsa Products, aeronauts, RCHotDeals, LazerToys, or others at below what you can get them for on United Hobbies. Best thing to do is check around but for the most part UH has the best prices. Shipping was like $30 if I would have used the default one on my last order, but I dropped it down to the next shipping method and it went down to $12. Even with this shipping I got my items in four days once they were pulled. They used to have very poor picking and shipping times but it appears they've fixed that after they moved to a larger warehouse.
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Old 07-05-2007, 12:42 PM
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Default RE: F27 STRYKER -Way Past the Limits Part 6 -Go deeper in to the Dark Side...

To All Styker Fanatics.. Good Luck and Prosper on the next episode of Stryker
Keep up the Brill work

Many Thanks to Gryphon for posting all the parts of what is an enjoyable journey and development on RCU of the stryker,

and also many thanks to all the members who have helped me too,

Ray

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Old 07-05-2007, 01:46 PM
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Default RE: F27 STRYKER -Way Past the Limits Part 6 -Go deeper in to the Dark Side...

Quote:
can i build a cheaper, better brushless setup with radio,rec servos batt, charger,etc or should i just get the "c" model$260 ish and be happy with there electronics pkg ? .
I don't think " Cheaper "
I went with the C model. I was not sure at the time what all the hype is about .
If you do not have anything ( E-Flight ) like I did. It was the ONLY route to go.
The stock F27C, I think is a good deal. What else can you buy from the LHS and fly one hour later ??
Best of all it flys GREAT

my 2 cents

Fred..
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Old 07-05-2007, 03:24 PM
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Default RE: F27 STRYKER -Way Past the Limits Part 6 -Go deeper in to the Dark Side...

Hey Gryphon congrats!

I am still planing to order the Phoenix 80 and the Mega 16/25/2. I am only waiting for my new visa card to arrive. So I assume that the stock lipo wouldn't last long with this kind of power, so what 3S battery do you guys reccomend?

Thanks, and good luck with part 6!

LT-40
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Old 07-05-2007, 10:30 PM
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Default RE: F27 STRYKER -Way Past the Limits Part 6 -Go deeper in to the Dark Side...

Thank you all for your nice comments and well wishes.

critterhunter,
As usual, great work. Very through. Great deals and low prices are now a just a few clicks away.
By the way, I know what you mean as far as part 5 going lower on the "Park Flyers & Backyard Flyers" forum.

Glacier Girl,
I just sent my second PM to a moderator regarding the blue box. It'll be taken care of soon. Part 5 thread is now closed.

DepronJet,
I cannot take credit for all of it. Most of it was already done by somegeek. I copied his first post from part 5, then changed and added a few things. Good to see you on here.

darkseacret,
You didn't provide a lot of detail as far as what your goals are and what parts you have. If you have nothing or next to nothing as far as brushless equipment, then the comment by 440GTX holds pretty true, because you will be getting a whole new plane and it'll be ready to go.
Some thought should always be given towards future goals. Do you want to change stripped gears at a low cost of $2.50 repeatedly while trying to scramble to get the procedure done quickly, or do you want better metal gear servos. Will you change gears many times then buy the metal gear servos on top of that????
With some thought now and re-evaluation of your goals and/or budget you will be happier with the results, and enjoy it more all along, with least heartache.

LT-40
I have the same setup. You already know that my friends and I have done extensive testing on this motor in a Stryker. To max it all out, and also to ensure that the battery will live a long time we recommend something similar to TP 3S-5000 25C or their 3S-4500.
I did damage a TP 3S-3850. Either the 5000 or 4500 are the same 160mm long and only have a minute thickness difference.
With stock elevons you can use either one. But with wooden elevons I think the 5000 would be a slightly better choice.
**Now you can prop more conservatively and use the 3850.
My favorite 3S combination: 3S-5000 and APC sport 7X6. You'll have unreal climbing and 110-111MPH in level flight with no wind. With enough C.F. and 3M Extreme tape, you can get away with using stock F-27C elevons if you are not into all out aerobatics and such.

Have fun,
Gryphon
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Old 07-05-2007, 10:56 PM
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Default RE: F27 STRYKER -Way Past the Limits Part 6 -Go deeper in to the Dark Side...

Well done Gryphon,the time and effort that you put into helping people is awesome.May your landings equal your takeoffs...
Bleary.
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Old 07-06-2007, 12:57 AM
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Default RE: F27 STRYKER -Way Past the Limits Part 6 -Go deeper in to the Dark Side...

Well done Gryphon!! I think you seriously deserve this honour, great job
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Old 07-06-2007, 05:05 PM
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Default RE: F27 STRYKER -Way Past the Limits Part 6 -Go deeper in to the Dark Side...

UPS truck showed up this morning with my Stryker. The moving company had said they opened the box, made sure they had my plane and sent it out for me through UPS. They said they could not find the tracking number.
I guess they lied because my cousin found it in the warehouse a day after they said they sent it, he then took it to UPS himself.
Thanks cousin.....

If you move, make sure to really research who is taking your stuff. I didn't and I am still missing two boxes.

I have my Stryker in my hand, time to go check it out. I want to fly with 4S and 5S so bad that I will order another new 16/25/2 2650KV and sent this one back to get its shaft replaced in the next several weeks.
I'll ship this motor to the distributor in Washington. He will send it out for repair to manufacturer.

Gryphon
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Old 07-06-2007, 05:15 PM
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Default RE: F27 STRYKER -Way Past the Limits Part 6 -Go deeper in to the Dark Side...

I need to buy a pen cam for the Stryker. I'm looking for best resolution and at least 5 min recording time. Budget $100, might consider revising it.

So what is the latest cam out there? Anything new since we posted couple/few months back???

Thank you in advance,
Gryphon
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Old 07-06-2007, 08:15 PM
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Default RE: F27 STRYKER -Way Past the Limits Part 6 -Go deeper in to the Dark Side...

Hi all, I was hoping you can all help me out..... I have read a lot of the way past the limits and have learned a ton.. thank you for that. I have been running the bp 21 and 12 for a good long time and think it is time to get a good fast stryker. This is the equipment I have now. 81mg servos, electron 6, 30amp china speed control ( the one that comes with the BP combo) and for batteries I have qty 2 -4 cell 3200 10c constant, qty 3 -3 cell 3100 10c constant. What motor do you all think would go best with the stuff I have right now with the exception of the speed control. I do understand that I may need to upgrade that as well. I have read a lot about the mega 16/15/4 or the 16/15/3 or the just go fly motors. But do not know what would be the best. Any advise would greatly be appreciated!!
Thanks
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Old 07-06-2007, 08:47 PM
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Default RE: F27 STRYKER -Way Past the Limits Part 6 -Go deeper in to the Dark Side...

Well here is the start of something fast. I am finally getting this put together. I am gluing the cf in place as I type. I will stay up all night if needed. I flew the stock stryker today and think I fried the motor. I am going to try some 30 minute epoxy with micro balloons to see how it works. Here goes nothing.
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Old 07-06-2007, 09:00 PM
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Default RE: F27 STRYKER -Way Past the Limits Part 6 -Go deeper in to the Dark Side...

dizzy7433,

Hi there. If you answer the following questions, I think we can better help you. Try to answer as many as you can.

1) How fast do you want to fly?

2) Do you have a link for your batteries, so I can see the shape(size) and weight?

3) To obtain your goals or to have a faster one, would you consider running two of them in either parallel or series if needed?

4) which matters more to you, speed or climbing.

5) Your budget without ESC, and your budget with ESC.

6) Do you already have Universal BEC for use with your 4S?

I look forward to your reply.

Gryphon
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Old 07-06-2007, 09:13 PM
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Default RE: F27 STRYKER -Way Past the Limits Part 6 -Go deeper in to the Dark Side...

Mr. Mugen,

Looks great. I see that you did one of my favorite mods....putting in those (2) 9" tubes behind the nose close to the bottom.
One day you will see how it saved your plane. Wait a minute; hope fully you will never find out. [8D]

You can take some short C.F. and add a couple of diagonal pieces to the wing. Free style it. Feel the force Luke.....

Did you check to see if your front motor mount screws clear the rear diagonal C.F. strips? If they don't, don't worry, there is a solution for everything (voice of experience).......LOL...happened to me.

If I remember right you bought the TP 4S-3850 25C right? If so, you need wooden elevons because it'll want to go about 130MPH with the right prop and with all the C.F. that you have, you can push the stock F-27C elevons to about 110MPH before seeing weird stuff like start of a roll to one side.


Good luck and have fun,
Your friend,
Gryphon
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Old 07-06-2007, 10:11 PM
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Default RE: F27 STRYKER -Way Past the Limits Part 6 -Go deeper in to the Dark Side...

Thanks Gryphon for the fast reply,
I would like to fly fast… 100+ would be nice. I put cf rods in one of the bp 21 set ups just to find out that all it did was slow it down a lot. the stability part I think I have pretty decent. A link to were I got my batteries http://milehighrc.com/Lipos.html The four cells he made custom for me. I had a couple of thunder power batteries but these seemed to do just as good for much less $$$. Not sure on the weight of the 4 cell but they feel pretty heavy. Speed matters most then climbing. Budget would be around $170 with esc $85 with out or so. Less is always better but for this one I want it to be done right. I have a bec that I use already for the 4 cells.
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Dizzy
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Old 07-06-2007, 10:23 PM
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Default RE: F27 STRYKER -Way Past the Limits Part 6 -Go deeper in to the Dark Side...

Yes I did the same as yours so far. I will add the shorter ones later. I am ready to cut the TE for the balsa piece to hinge to. How wide are your elevons? I mean from LE to TE. I looked over our conversation and could not find it. Also did you have to do a bunch of sanding to get the thickness right from inside to outside?
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Old 07-07-2007, 04:06 PM
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Default RE: F27 STRYKER -Way Past the Limits Part 6 -Go deeper in to the Dark Side...

dizzy7433,

I read your last 2 posts and I believe the 16/15/4 does not suit your needs. The 16/15/3 3000KV on your 4S battery comes much closer to what you asked for.
Your 3S batteries cannot be used unless you double them up in series as 6S(not with the 3000KV motor), I think given these particular 3S doubling them up will not make you happy.
You are battery limited. Your battery has the right capacity, size, weight, BUT ITS "C" RATING leaves a lot to be desired.

On 4S to hit about 100 MPH you will need to get above its constant current rating and into its burst range.
You can have the performance that you want but for a limited time(throttle control) and at a risk of doing some damage to your battery over a period of some time.

You can get the motor and ESC that you want, but prop it for about 90 MPH till you get a better battery such as a 4S-3000/3300 20C or better(3300 15C is border line).

To find a cheap battery and ESC also take a look at the links that critterhunter put up.
Looking on that web site, I found (2) choices that would work.
https://www.unitedhobbies.com/UNITED...idProduct=4132

https://www.unitedhobbies.com/UNITED...idProduct=4129

the first battery is border line, the 2nd/larger battery gets my vote and it should last more number of cycles and give you a little more speed due to less of a voltage drop under load. Both are back ordered till July 17th. You need to verify that the first one is 15C per comments, not 12 C per picture.

To fly at 100MPH straight and level about 600W input is needed. I try and aim for 650W to ensure 100MPH. Those numbers are for a stock profile Stryker not one with thinned wings for reduced drag.

The more inefficient the motor the more power is wasted in heat and there will be less of an output.

*** Using MOTOCALC simulation I also compared the brushless 400 sized MEGA 16/15/3 3000KV with the 480 sized MEGA 15/25/3 1700KV and I found you can have the same speed but much better climbing with 16/25/3 due to its larger prop. The larger motor is more efficient and will be definitely running cooler at 100MPH thereby putting out more power.

Somewhere past 30A, more of a case could be made to get the larger motor. Since you will need 45+ amps, you will benefit from the larger motor for that extra $15 price difference. Same thickness just a little longer than F-27C motor, about 1/2 O.Z. heavier than the F-27B motor but same size.

The larger motor can be used with up to 6S in a Stryker very easily at speeds of 120MPH.
It is rated for 9S and has been tested to easily handle 50-60A if desired. One of the Stryker Kings ran his on 6S and 50A for hundreds of flights till he moved on to other projects.

When you select your ESC make sure to get one at least 45A, but it would be wise to get one that can handle up to 80A if you can swing it, this way you can use it on your future projects and experiments, in hot days you have less to worry about, etc...
Check the max number of cells of the ESC to see if it is 4S, 5S, 6S.

Remember you can put in (2) 3S battery packs wired in series and there is your 6S, for some real fast speeds in a Stryker. 6S 50A=120MPH using the 16/25/3.

**If you send me the specs for the just go fly motor I'll look at it. I'm not familiar with it, I hope it is not the same motor I looked at for someone last year......was a real bad one.

Feel free to send me a PM or post another question or ask for clarification.

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