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  1. #51

    RE: Hobbico FlyZone® Piper J-3 Cub RTF

    deleted mistake

  2. #52

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    RE: Hobbico FlyZone® Piper J-3 Cub RTF

    I was thinking about changing the tail and vertical stab on my J-3. The elevator especially just seems to give up if I do a hard dive. I wonder if making a built up balsa horizontal and vertical stab would help. I have plenty of building experience and I think I could make the stabs a bit more sturdy but I don't know if the weight difference would be too much. I actually thought of sort of scratch building a copy of this cub by disecting my crashed fuse into foam disks and creating a balsa representation by recreating these disks and using stringers and some sheeting to finish the fuse. I think I would keep the foam wing since it is so easy to fix, but I would build the tail section out of balsa.

    Waddayathink?


  3. #53

    RE: Hobbico FlyZone® Piper J-3 Cub RTF

    With your determination and demonstrated capabilities I have no doubt about your ability to create a viable aft fuselage and empennage structure that can perform up to your expectations.

    I have reinforced the rudder/vertical stabilizer and the horizontal stab/elevator with carbon fiber tow and a six pound test "diamond shaped" Berkley Fireline fishing line bracing system that is very much like full scale. This system ties the horizontal and vertical stab together and should provide all the strength I should ever need. 1/4 ounce of carbon fiber reinforced balsa structure was added to the inside of the motor cowling and this brought the CG up to the minimum recommended stability point.

    For the benefit of beginning modelers my objective with the Cub is to keep modifications to a minimum that can be useful for improved performance. Besides that, I really like the looks of this little bird and don't want to change its appearance significantly.

    Looking forward to learn what you end up doing.

    madwebtvscientist [sm=lol.gif][sm=cry_smile.gif]

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  4. #54
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    RE: Hobbico FlyZone® Piper J-3 Cub RTF

    Hello out there,
    Just maidened my Flyzone cub today (first time flyer) It went like this: Crash- fix prop shaft, crash - glue nose back together,
    crash - glue rear stabilinzer, crash - glue main wing back together and fix shaft again and, Crash - fix shaft again and reglue
    rear stabilizer. First crash was my fault - ASSUMED I charged the battery all the way ... NOT!!! The motor shut off the minute
    the plane left my hand. Duh! After that the plane didn't hold up to my inexperince. I had the same problem as stated earlier
    in this thread, the metal "clip" that joins the 2 halves of elevator seperated and down she came after running the circuit twice.
    This bird is also nose heavy. It couldn't rog because the ballfield needed dragged so hand launched. There was very little
    wind and she just wouldn't stay in the air so I called it a day. Once I learn on this PIG I'll buy the replacement parts and
    make it pretty again, the it's on to the ELECTRISTAR that I bought before the cub and decided I better learn on something
    else 1st. Oh, I simm on the FMS. And there is no CLub near me and the one in the next county over lost there field and
    said I have to be an AMA member and their member before they would help. Whew, Any suggestions???

  5. #55

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    RE: Hobbico FlyZone® Piper J-3 Cub RTF

    Hemicuda,

    I had a similar experience when I first flew this plane. The first two times I tried flying it, I crashed pretty bad. The first time, I had to fix both sides of the wing, a cracked fuse, a broken prop, bend shaft, shattered cowling. I just kept fixing and thinking about what I did wrong. My biggest problem was using too much elevator too soon. This plane in stock form does not have the power to pull out of problems. Once I learned to control my climb rate and make sure I was up to speed, I found this to be a very easy plane to fly. The CG was not correct out of the box on mine, so please check that. It can make all the difference in the world. I usually hand launch as well. Make sure your battery is charged well, and do not toss at too much of an angle. Just barely above parallel is enough. With a sturdy toss, it will get up to speed and ready to climb in about 15 feel. Just keep the elevator level until it starts to pull up a bit on its own. If it starts to descend, just add very small elevator imputs. If you put it in a stall at this elevation, you will crash. I try to stay off of the rudder [once in the air (if ROG)] until I have decent altitude. The rudder has a big affect on the orientation of the wings. If a wing gets too low and you do not have speed or altitute, you will crash.

    Flight tips:

    1. Check CG, battery power, control linkages, and control movements.
    2. Perform a range check 100' away with the antenna down. Make sure to do this with the motor on as well.
    3. Hand launch:
    Always into the wind. This plane does not like cross wind or down wind takeoffs.
    Power up and make sure you feel the thrust pretty good
    Give it an almost level toss and toss it pretty good.
    Do not overdo any rudder or elevator imputs at this altitude: you will crash
    Use the ailerons to keep it level
    Once the plane is flying on its own power, start to add elevator and it will climb.
    4. Do not try to climb quickly. A gentle ascent is best.
    5. Gain a good amount of altitude before trying too much.
    6. Once up and running, get a feel for stall speed and practice approaches.
    7. Do not try to land if you are uncomfortable. Go around again.
    8. Same rules about rudder apply during landing. Try to use the ailerons to keep it level. Do not drop a wing.
    9. Do not give up. You will be rewarded with a fun plane to fly.

    I was very frustrated after my first few attempts, but I couldn't wipe the smile off my face on my first successful flight. Then I crashed a few more times mostly due to using too much elevator on takeoff and structure failures due to previous crashes. Now I have a very beat up wing, new tail section and fuse, but the plane flies well and I really enjoy it. I have become confident enough to do some aerobatics at good altitude and I can land it just about anywhere I need to. I just started flying in January this year.

    You will be fine too. Just keep trying.

  6. #56

    RE: Hobbico FlyZone® Piper J-3 Cub RTF

    [8D] HEMI, wow! What a story! You realize, of course, that no normal human being could possibly handle such trauma and still keep fighting.

    Now that we know that you are fatally hooked and you WILL become a successful pilot as long as there is any strength at all left in your control thumbs, let us reason together and see if the collective wisdom of all of us Cub enthusiasts can be mutually beneficial.

    derek may be right about using ailerons instead of rudder when flying near stall speed. My idea came from information about WWII carrier landings where ailerons are out on the ends of the wings as well as with light planes dealing with P-Factor on take off. The recommendations in these cases are to use rudder rather than ailerons to level the wings. But we have "strip ailerons" on our model Cubs that may be a whole different situation. Anyway, derek has more experience with the Cub than me and knows how to make it work for him. We both agree about hand launching and being sure to allow sufficient speed to build up on ROG take offs before easing back on the elevator.

    Light larger diameter wheels could help your ROG situation as discussed earlier. You may have to add weight (modeling clay works great for this) to the tail, nose, or a wing tip to get the plane to fly right. Since you are obviously a committed modeler you might seriously consider 7.4 volt LiPo batteries weighing around only two (2) ounces that can help provide a very useful weight savings and obvious flying performance advantage as well as less "hard landing" (?) damage.

    Hopefully, more Piper pilots will join in and share their ideas with us new Piper people.

    madwebtvscientist [sm=lol.gif][sm=cry_smile.gif]

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  7. #57

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    RE: Hobbico FlyZone® Piper J-3 Cub RTF

    I definately am no expert on flying or cubs, but for me, staying off of the rudder as much as possible once barely in the air has reduced the number of crashes I have experienced. The rudder yaw? if that is the right term, seem significant with this plane. The ailerons do not have much authority, and therefore, do not get you into trouble. I may be off base on using as little rudder as possible at low altitude, but it works for me with this plane. On my mini-pulse, I can use the rudder more as the plane does not lean as much. Once a wing drops, you are in trouble if you do not have speed and altitude.

    Just my personal experience, not to be taken as fact.

    Happy flying.

  8. #58
    HEMICUDA's Avatar
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    RE: Hobbico FlyZone® Piper J-3 Cub RTF

    Thanks you guys, good info is always music to my ears. I don't think i even used the rudder and definitely didn't use too much elevator
    as it rarely went up. Maybe i didn't launch hard enough but I definitely did throw up too much. I did range check to 50 paces and made sureall controls were correctly moving. I have much patience but my wife doesn't. I have 3 sets of batts for the cub and the electristar waiting in the wings has 2 sets (4) so I have close to $600 in these 2 planes so it's fly or die trying! Other than ordering xtra props and maybe a new motor if I need it I'm pretty tapped out until i get better.

    I actually learned a little basics this winter when a got a XPV for XMAS. It was only a 2 ch and not much learning curve. After much glue, tape and toothpicks( yes, I said toothpicks!) and a penny taped in a sweet spot on the right wing I made the Wright Bros. proud.
    I could even ROG as it came with wheels. I saw several vids on you tube on these XPV's and I was doing alot better that most of them.
    So I figured with more controls offered on the above models it would be easier than a 2 ch with more/less thrust for up and down and 2 motors for skid/steer for left and right. I was wrong... but I'm goin to keep at it.

  9. #59
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    RE: Hobbico FlyZone® Piper J-3 Cub RTF

    Correction.. that is supposed to be I didn't throw it at too high of an angle.

  10. #60

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    RE: Hobbico FlyZone® Piper J-3 Cub RTF

    Make the wind and snow stop. It is April for goodness sake. I want to fly! AAAAArrrrrrrrrrgggggggghhhhhhh!

  11. #61
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    RE: Hobbico FlyZone® Piper J-3 Cub RTF

    Hey All fellow Cubers,
    Just bought my first Cub from Tower Hobbies and read all the inputs from everyone. Just like to know the best set-up for the J-3. I am a seasoned beginner and I have a few months for glow trainers under my belt before the winter. Meaning I have bought and fly 4 glow trainers. All are still flying, except my first [&o] RIP. So any input you have is greatly appreciated. I currently have a E-Flite Power 10 Brushless Outrunner 1100KV, E-Flite 40 amp sensorless brushless ESC, and E-Flite 3S 11.1V 2100mAh Li-Po battery (20C {42Amp} Maximum Continuous Discharge) would this be a good set-up for the Cub? Hate to say it but it''s from my E-Flite Brio which is in the garage in ICU. Brothers of Flight, I share scars of your failed flights & success like if they are my own. Please help me get this sweet bird in the air.

  12. #62

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    RE: Hobbico FlyZone® Piper J-3 Cub RTF

    Talent 5,

    You shouldn't have any probles flying this with your experience. I don't know a lot about electric motors as of yet. The power 10 might be a bit much for this, but I am not sure. I have thought about taking my PNP 450 out of my mini pulse and putting it in the J-3. Maybe others can give you some advice on motor choice. Earlier in this thread there is a discussion about motor choice, but I think that gentleman used a tower pro motor.

    If you fly stock, you will find the J-3 to have a lack of power, so do not try to climb too fast. In stock form, this plane is great for lazin' around the field. Some people think it comes in a bit fast. It was my first plane, so I don't know about that. I felt fine coming it.

    Let us know if you have any other specific questions.

  13. #63

    RE: Hobbico FlyZone® Piper J-3 Cub RTF

    Talent, great to see you having fun with the Cub.

    Most of the successful Cub flyers on this thread seem to have been flying in "nice dense cool air." I found that in 40 degree weather that my significantly lighter Lipo batteries allow the Cub to fly at about the same speed and climb at about the same rate as my modified simi symmetrical airfoil wing Accipiter Badius motor powered gliders that I use to train new pilots. However, in 70 degree weather the J-3 seems to fly significantly faster, climb significantly slower, and it seems to come out of the sky faster for my usual dead stick landings that I fly at this point in my "flight training program." The lighter Lipo batteries are a definite improvement over the heavy stock battery that I suspect is the main factor in concerns about the Cub's flying performance.

    Did some neat new things with the Cub last time out. Performed my first inside loop during a flight and finished the flying session with no damage at all in spite of some "aborted take off" runs. I am still training that left thumb. While trying to keep one of my aborted take off runs straight I accidentally pulled the throttle back at a critical point - had to start over again. I really hate pilot error when I am the pilot!

    One neat thing that works great with this "light Cub" is hand launching it dead stick and landing on my short grass Soccer field some 25-30 yards from the launch point using my left hand. It is neat to learn just how to touch down so as to keep the nose from touching the ground. I still can't get any real rudder practice with this action, but confidence with aileron and elevator for dead stick landings can be gained. I am practicing "lazy eights" at a "cruising altitude" of around 400 feet or less using rudder only (most of the time - sometimes I "cheat" unintentionally and use a little aileron).

    PREPARE FOR ACTION - GOOD WEATHER IS ON THE WAY!

    madwebtvscientist [sm=lol.gif][sm=cry_smile.gif]
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  14. #64

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    RE: Hobbico FlyZone® Piper J-3 Cub RTF

    Well, I had another elevator failure today. Hello ground. Pretty cool. Show up with one plane, leave with ten pieces of a plane. I think I am going to use the guts of this to make a cheapo 4 channel aircraft of some sort. I am either going to make a replica of the foam fuse or I am going to just make a very simple 4 channel stick type plane. I am done with foam however. The simplicity of repairs is nice, but I am tired of the lack of strength of the control surfaces.

    At least I got about 15 flights between crashes this time. I think I just was putting too much stress on the surfaces by doing more aerobatics and flying in some wind.

    Happy flying!

  15. #65

    RE: Hobbico FlyZone® Piper J-3 Cub RTF

    [] derek, sorry to learn about your latest disaster. You have suffered too much, overcome too much, and have been too much of an inspiration to allow you to stay down on the Cub. I wish there was some way I could be more persuasive about the value of using carbon fiber for reinforcement of foam parts. Carbon fiber really can make all the difference between victory and defeat with almost any structural material. Had I not used it on my Cub there is no doubt in my mind that my last "flying session" would have resulted in at least some damage if not a possible disaster similar to some of yours and/or those of some of our Cub comrades.

    One thing I left out about the "diamond" shaped fishing line reinforcement on the tail in an earlier post is that the horizontal stab tips are connected to the bottom of the fuselage just behind my "castering/steerable" tail wheel. The CF reinforced stabs are really sturdy with this bracing system. The wire connecting the elevators was replaced with CF tow material. I don't expect this Cub tail structure to ever fail in flight regardless of maneuver violence.

    Regular thin CA glue can be applied to an ordinary "baking soda" prepared area (more baking soda is needed when gluing directly on "raw foam" to prevent foam decomposition - trial and error practice is needed to determine an optimum amount of baking soda) and with carbon fiber you can end up with a final structure that is more like steel than plastic with very little weight gain. For example, instead of adding structurally useless weight to the nose of my Cub to adjust the CG, I added enough carbon fiber structure on the inside of the cowl to make it almost indestructible in the increasingly unlikely event of yet another "one point landing."

    Hopefully, just a "little" vacation from the Cub is all you will need make it perfectly clear that this little bird is not going to get the best of you!

    madwebtvscientist [sm=lol.gif][sm=cry_smile.gif]
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  16. #66
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    RE: Hobbico FlyZone® Piper J-3 Cub RTF

    [&o] (21 gun Salute and bugle playing)
    In memory of our falling J-3 Cub... She was gone before her time. Derek2005, you have my deepest condolenses. But I will be the first to tell you don't give up. I can tell you from experience in crashing, that no matter how many times I pilot falling object from the sky, I maintain my poise and continue on. I got more planes that my wife can stand. And even though she asks me time & time again why so many... I can only say " I'm a Junkie for Flying". I have 2 fleets. Ones I've crashed and the ones I haven't crashed yet. Derek2005, I when on the Scratch & Dent and got me another J-3 Cub for $75 used. So, now I have two J-3 Cubs and haven't flown either yet (due to my schedule). I can't tell you whether it's me being prepared or just getting my FIX (Aeronautic Junkie Talk). Planes and flight is in my blood. I joined the Air Force and became a Jet Mechanic just for the Love of Flight. I can't ever kick the habit ! Also, E-flite makes a fantastic Electric J-3 Cub which looks amazing and flys even better. It has the control and power you want and need.

    http://www.e-fliterc.com/Products/Re...arts%20Listing

    Can you say my next plane !


  17. #67

    RE: Hobbico FlyZone® Piper J-3 Cub RTF

    Talent (accidently forgot to add your moniker on the beginning of this post, sorry. [] ), that "7 o'clock shot" looks just like a full scale Cub on the site you mentioned on your post. Funny how airplane appearance can "grow" on you though. At the moment my dandy FlyZone Cub looks perfect for my purposes. Spent the morning removing battery compartment material so I can use my 1800 mAh LiPos in case I crave long flight times.

    The freakish cold rainy and even snow here in Oregon in late April (never seen such before) needs a dose of "global warming" before I will feel like flying. I am getting spoiled in my old age, but I won't be able to resist the unstoppable urge to fly very soon "global cooling" or not.

    Let us know about your new flying adventures and how you like your new Cub(s).

    madwebtvscientist [sm=lol.gif][sm=cry_smile.gif]
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  18. #68

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    RE: Hobbico FlyZone® Piper J-3 Cub RTF

    Thanks for everyone's response. My cub is not dead, it is just resting in pieces! I think I am going to try to bring it back, but with mods. I am not sure about this foam thing though. I enjoy my mini pulse much more right now than the cub. I think I will keep the foam wing, possibly the fuse, but I want to re-do the tail area. Either reinforce it, or create a tail made out of balsa. I do believe more power will be in order too. No more brushed motor and definately going lipo. I did enjoy flying the cub and I learned a lot and repairs were easy. We will see how much I like my mini pulse when I crash it for the first time.

    Happy Flying

  19. #69
    Talent5's Avatar
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    RE: Hobbico FlyZone® Piper J-3 Cub RTF

    This weekend (if I can wait that long) will be the Maiden Voyage for my canary (J-3 Cub). I have printed out Derek2005 Flight Tips and set it up for my Pre-flight Check. It is quite on point. By having it on paper, pretty much I won't forget a step. I will attempt to have someone video it and have it up for all to see. Ready to join you all in the sky and then safely in ONE PIECE on the ground !! <Shouting> Fly Canary Fly

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    RE: Hobbico FlyZone® Piper J-3 Cub RTF

    Need some input on this set-up I am trying. The piper cub was my first 4-channel plane I bought. I am in the process of making some speed mods to my stryker-c and have the stock motor, li-po batterys and esc from the stryker not being used. What kind of performance would this give the cub and what size prop would you run with this set-up.

    3s 2200mahbattery
    1880kv-brushless motor
    25a brushless esc

    Thanks Doug.

  21. #71

    RE: Hobbico FlyZone® Piper J-3 Cub RTF

    air, welcome to Cub craziness!

    derek and I have both had problems with the fragile elevator structure. Given your need for speed please reinforce your tail at least a little before you smoke that baby through maneuvers.

    I am interested in learning more about motor systems for the Cub also. For the time being I plan to wring the Cub out with the stock motor and LiPos to see just what kind of performance is possible. I have been practicing knife edge flight and four point rolls on a flight sim and will be satisfied with the mere few seconds of knife edge flight capability needed to make four point rolls possible. After all, this is a 4ch plane and it just wouldn't seem appropriate to not try to enjoy its full potential.

    Hope some knowledgeable flyers out there will help us out with some more motor possibilities for us to think about. Since I don't actually require "hotdog" performance, something that would improve flying time, maybe "slightly" more power capability, etc., would be nice. I actually enjoy the challenge and excitement of marginal maneuvering capability like what I have in my modified motor powered gliders. The fun is intensified with spectators who sense the same suspense that I have before a maneuver (usually an outside loop).

    FLY!

    madwebtvscientist [sm=lol.gif][sm=cry_smile.gif]
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  22. #72
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    RE: Hobbico FlyZone® Piper J-3 Cub RTF

    [8D] Mad & Derek have you looked at the AILERONS and noticed the the degree of movement is so small. I am so used to more. It has me worried about turning (meaning how much and how fast it banks). I hear some binding in the aileron servo and will change that today, but before I do... did anyone else have that problem or concern???!!! I will be sure to first get alot altitude before trimming it in Flight tomorrow. If all fails, I can Dead Stick Land with the best of them (plenty of flight & crash time). Yea, I got Scars ! LMAO I constantly see warnings about using the Rudder. So, give me some last minute pointers about this Canary in flight behavior ?

  23. #73

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    RE: Hobbico FlyZone® Piper J-3 Cub RTF

    Talent5,

    There is not much throw on those ailerons. The plane banks slowly. The rudder and elevator have good authority, but the ailerons do not. I increased the throws to the max to help. Since I just use this plane for gentle flying, I was happy with the flight characteristics. Once I learned how to not crash, this plane became very enjoyable. In stock form, the plane is sedate although I have to be careful with rudder imputs due to the yaw (dropping a wing). If a wing drops to low at low altitude, it can be hard to recover. Once at altitude, this plane is easy to fly. Even in stock form, it is capable of some very mild aerobatics. The mad scientist and I have both had elevator issues, so if you are going to do much in the way of aerobatics or making any mods to increase performance, I would recommend beefing up the elevator where the joiner wire is attatched. Also, check the CG!

    Enjoy the plane!

  24. #74

    RE: Hobbico FlyZone® Piper J-3 Cub RTF

    Talent, I removed the wing from the plane, disconnected the servo from the ailerons, cut and gouged material from around the aileron horns until I could easily get about twice the aileron deflection angles possible from stock (plus/minus 5/16 inch movement). I then adjusted the horn bushings to take advantage of the more free working ailerons. Whatever it takes to get aileron rolls will be adjusted/built into the system. Still nasty weather so I can't yet say how well this works, except to notice that it is not too sensitive for the "rudder training" I am still working on as already discussed.

    Elevator and rudder are connected through the next to last hole out on the horn. CG has been adjusted via weight in the nose so that it is in the recommended range. Elevator deflection seems too low but it is easily enough to perform a loop after first starting with a short shallow dive.

    Good luck!

    madwebtvscientist [sm=lol.gif][sm=cry_smile.gif]
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  25. #75
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    RE: Hobbico FlyZone® Piper J-3 Cub RTF

    Mad & Derek...guess it's time to have an intervention. I fell off the wagon and flew my Canary yesterday. I just couldn't wait. <shaking & scratching> It kept calling me. I have 2 Successful flights (then the daylight was gone) and boy was I happy.

    The ailerons worries, had got on my nerves so much, after I wrote the Thread that I just had to fix it ASAP. I did just what Mad suggested and gouge the material around the ailerons servo and got what I needed (Pilots sure do think alot alike). The binding noise was just about gone, but she then flew wonderfully. I just flew her around to see her responces to certain inputs, stall speeds, dives & recoveries and climbing speed. What I did notice is she'll loop, if you get her to speed from a short dive (Just a hint use your trims in flight and balance the Bird out). Also, the CG was in limits which surprised me cause I was expecting to be a little tail heavy. Other than that, there was No Hot Dogging YET. Just thawing out my piloting skills for Summer Flying !

    Just know, you two guys are great to bounce ideas off of and so knowledgable. So believe me, if not talking to you b4 fly my J-3 Cub aka Canary it could of been bad . So to anyone reading this far down...read all the suggestions from these Gurus and you'll save yourself time & fustration.


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