RedGN

This post is also in crash and rebuild forum

I have a Parkzone Super Decathelon and I want to cut ailerons in the wings. I cut the aelirons out already but i am wondering what the best method of hingeing (hinging) them would be. It is foam construction and i was planning on using thin tape.

Oh... I have those aileron tubes to connect to the servo that is being placed in the middle of the wing.

Thanks

3DSAVAGE

i'd say the tape will work fine. and usin a flex cable single servo setup will save weight. i hope it works for ya, post post pics of your project for us! and maybe a vid too[&:]

RedGN

I'm done! The ailerons are cutout and working.

I used some of those flex tubes and a servo from another parkzone decathelon which was destroyed.

Some tape and hot glue and presto....

Working ailerons.... I hope the tape holds, if not i will hot glue the tube in place.[img][/img]

RedGN

Hey, how do i post images and pictures here????????[sm=what_smile.gif]

RedGN

OK...i got in now...
Here are the pics.

RedGN

I think i have it now.......

RedGN

Nope still didn't get it... can anyone help me post a picture

RedGN

Try number 6[&o]
[img][/img][img][/img][img][/img][img][/img]

Leo L

Very nice job! Have you done all of the standard upgrades? Are you still running the stock motor, Venom upgrade, or brushless? Have you added a tail wheel to stop those horrible ground circles? Are you running the High Pitch prop? Have you reinforced the rudder at the control horn?

RedGN

Whoa...Slow down Leo.

This is my sons plane ( he's 9 years old)

He seems to be getting bored of the rudder control so i decided to add the ailerons and disabled the rudder alltogether. The linkage and servos are still in place for the rudder.

This is a stock Parkzone Super Decathelon. I took off the main wing and hot glued a servos from a destroyed parkzone ( decathelon, i think) as to keep the stock 5-wire receiver.

I added the flex cable and tubes, found some servo horns and that's it.

I didn't really want to spend big bucks.

I don't even know if it will work, i haven't tried it yet.

If i flied well i can consider more upgrades if my son wants.

mclina

I think your modifications look great. I used to use clear duct tape to patch up my Aerobird Swift, and it works great. The only note of caution I would add, is that if kept in a hot car, the clear duct tape gets really soft and stretches. It might mess you up a little bit, but other than that, it looks really good. If it becomes an issue, just switch to clear packing tape.

I hope your son enjoys it.

RedGN

You know i totally forgot about how elevated heat level softens up duct tape. Thanks

If this works ( only doubt is that the wing is contoured so i don't know how it will react with the air going over and under the wing), i will replace the duct tape with epoxy. Then a quick airbrush and it will look original.

Hey do you think that Parkzone will pay me to adopt this idea in a new line of Super Decathelons.


I really like the style of this parkflyer and it is durable.

Thanks.

Leo L

RedGN,

It looks, from your first photo, that you hava a ParkZone J3Cub as well. As you know, the J3 and the SD are very similar in design and use the same power and electronic components. The J3 has a lower stall speed, so it takes off better and cruises better than the SD; but the SD has larger control surfaces and therefore performs aerobatics better. The modifications that I was asking about were developed for the J3 and are listed in a thread devoted to the J3 on this forum, but they apply equally to the SD.

1) The first modification, which is the easiest and one of the most important, is to make sure that you are using the optional High Pitch prop. The original J3 and SD both came with an 8x4 prop. PZ then came out with an optional 8.25x5.5 prop which they call the High Pitch Prop. Using this prop cuts your flying time by about 30 seconds, but it gives significantly better performance, particularly for ground take-offs. Eventually, the SDs began to be sold with this prop, while the J3s continued to be sold with the old prop. Whether or not your SD came with this prop depends on whether you have an older or a newer model.

2) Both the J3 and the SD are notorious for doing ground circles when you attempt to take off from the ground. Two simple modifications correct this problem: adding a tail wheel and increasing the size of the main wheels. If you still had a functional rudder, or if you think that you may make it functional sometime in the future, you should install a steerable tail wheel. You can make your own, or you can buy a very nice set-up from DuBro. To install it, you need to cut most of the tail skid off, making your cut parallel to the fuselage. The DuBro assembly has a mounting plate with two holes in it. Pre-drill some holes in the remains of the skid, then use 5 minute epoxy and the two screws to attach the mounting plate to the skid. If you want to go with a non-steerable tail wheel, you can use the DuBro assembly and epoxy it to be straight, or you can buy a replacement tail wheel assembly for the Aerobird. Straighten out the loops in the wire frame, bend them up and insert them in the fuselage seam, them epoxy in place. (You don't need to cut off the skid, just attach the assembly to the back edge.) You can buy larger wheels at your local hobby shop or on-line. You will need to get rid of the "pants", but the better take-offs are well worth it.

3) Both the J3 and the SD have the rudder control horn mounted on a small section of the rudder. If this area develops a crease, you will loose ability to steer the plane in one direction. If you see a crease, epoxy a small piece of plastic or wood across it, making sure to roughen up the surface of the rudder so that the epoxy adheres to it properly. (If your son's SD flies well with the ailerons, you won't need to worry about this potential problem.)

4) The Venom motor is more efficient than the original PZ motor, so it gives better performance. The installtion is fairly basic. Peel off the sticker on the Venom can. The can of the Venom is slightly larger in diameter than the can of the PZ motor. You need to shave some plastic from the inside of the motor housing to get it to slip in. The bolt holes are of a different size and are slightly colser together, so you need to slot the mounting holes and get new mounting bolts. Use a gear puller to remove the pinion from the old motor, then press it onto the Venom. Unsolder the leads from the original motor and solder them onto the Venom.Hewre is a link to the Venom motor: http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?&I=LXHUM8&P=7

You can also check out the E-flite Speed 370 motor that is used for the Blade CP Heli. The motor is a perfect fit in place of the original PZ motor, yet it is rated for 3-cell LiPo use.

5) If you are rebuilding the gear box, make sure to install 2 washers between the main gear and the plastic bushing. This reduces the heat build up from friction and practically eliminates the possibility of melting the main gear where it is attached to the prop shaft.

Swift427

Leo,

Would like your take on disabling rudder and using just ailerons for a beginner that is learning purpose, function, limitations of each control surface. It seems logical, but wondering if it's better to leave rudder enabled when making that transistion from 3-channel to 4-channel.

I guess a followup question would be: What 4-channel RTF/ARF plane would you recommend for a young beginner that is progressing from 3-channel throttle/elevator/rudder to 4-channel throttle/elevator/rudder/aileron? If you were to design the perfect RTF 4-channel foamie for a young beginner what plane would it most resemble that is now on the market and what modifications would you recommend?

RedGN

Leo, Thanks for all that info. It is a pleasure knowing someone like these parkflyers.

I still haven't tried out the aileron, it's been windy everyday ( i mean really windy ). I hope to try it out the weekend. As someone stated before the duct tape is too soft and is loosening already. I keep the planes in my basement and it's a bit on the cooler side there so heat was not an issue. Oh well time to replace the duct tape with some packaging tape and see if that works.

The upgrades seem to be a great idea. Like i stated befor though i don't really want to spend too much money and time into this plane. It's for my son and he's only nine. I like flying it ( i hand launch it because of the circling ) but it always flys well, he he flys it and lands it well also. The only thing was that even a little wind and the rudder is almost useless. Yes i have fixed the rudder horn many times ( ca glue, epoxy ) it just keeps breaking.

I do have a rear wheel from an old firebird freedom that i can add on. That is a great idea.

About this venom motor... is it brushed? If so will the SD's ESC/receiver handle the extra current draw? ( I'm guessing yes since you already have done it.)

If all goes well with the SD i may do the same with the J3. It is practically the same plane but I fancy the SD. (just my thing)

I also have some PZ warbird....Now these i wuldn't mind upgrading.... Any suggestions ( Landing gear for sure.)

Here are some of my other planes( and my brothers )
[img][/img][img][/img][img][/img]

Leo L

Hi Swift427,

The best plane to get you started with ailerons is the Multiplex MiniMagistar (Minimag). Its made of the same hardy foam as the EasyStar, but is similar to a Cessna in appearance. I believe that its now available as RTF, PNP or ARF. I would set it up with a brusless outrunner and LiPo, which will require a little work in creating a firewall to support the motor, but its well worth it. With the brushless/LiPo set up, its a terrific flying plane, with the reliable characteristics of the Supercub.

Hi RedGN,

For your son's SD, the only thing I would do right away is to verify that it has the High Pitch prop. If not, you can buy one for around $3.00. Its well worth it!

That's a nice sampling of planes that you have. What has been your experience with that Art-Tech Cessna? I had one as my first aileron plane and it was a complete disaster. Extremely fragile wings. Could never build up enough speed for ground take-offs, and once I did get it to fly, the radio would glitch terribly. I was determined to get it to fly, since many flyers on the threads loved its performance, so I spent over $250 beyond the original price of theplane, trying to get it to fly. I never got it to the point where it became an enjoyable plane, so I finally accepted defeat and trashed it.

Putting landing gear on the PZ warbirds is not easy. Their wings are hollow and not conducive to supporting the forces that the gear transmits during landings. There probably are some conversions that worked, but you would need to do a search here, and on RCGroups and Wattflyer forums. In general , warbirds are spectacular looking planes that are not easy to fly, particularly to land. My Typhoon is MUCH easier to fly and land than any warbird that I ever tried. (I've killed three so far and have four in various stages of construction. I'm determined to get the hang of landing them!)

Attached is a photo of my J3Cub's tail wheel and rudder reinforcement, and a picture of the J3 on DuBro skis (I have since gotten rid of the DuBro and made better home made ones.)

RedGN

Hi Leo,
The Super Decathelon flys great with the rudder control. I might go with the higher pitch prop if i remember it when i go the local hobbyshop.

I did try it out yesterday and it did nothing. my son light crash just after take off and i lightly crashed it just after take off.

Plane was just uncontrollable. Don't know why.

PZ warbirds are not hollow they are solid and they are fairly strong. I have repaired them twice on the same plane and each time they are solid. It is a fast flying plane (in comparison with the cub and SD) so when it crahes it crashes hard ( both times to pilot stupidity)

The art-tech cessena is actually my brothers. What a piece of crap. Do not buy this plane whoever reads this. Art-tech sucks. If you like the plain make sure you rip out all the electronics and install your own.

That is his 2nd one and is now destroyed. Body split in 4, wings split in 3. etc....

Leo L

If you want to try landing gear on the PZ Warbird, consider mounting retracts. You need to add another servo to the center of the wing, which adds a little weight, but its incredibly cool when your plane takes off from the ground and after the first circle of the field, the landing gear tuck in under the wing. You then fly with the landing gear not visible until you are ready to land. I bought two used GWS warbirds that the previous owner equiped with retracts, but the retracts broke on the first flights for me. I bought retracts from HobbyLobby and so far have had so-so success with the Corsair. I'm now working on adding them to the Mustang.

RedGN

Retracts sound cool but do they make a small enough set for these parkflyers? The spitfire is a pretty quick plane so adding a couple of ounces might not affect it too much.

I have another brand new spitfire also which i am going to rip out the electronics ( receiver ) and replace with my own ESC and receiver. I will probably look into retracts for that one.

Thanks again Leo.

Leo L

These are the retracts that I bought: http://www.hobby-lobby.com/retracts.htm

As you can see, they are good for a plane up to 2 lbs. in weight, which should be OK for the PZ warbirds. I made small mounting plates from plywood to which the retract assemblies get attached with screws. The wing is hollowed out and each plywood plate is attached with epoxy. I'm not sure if the spring assembly does any good, but on my Corsair I needed to offset the wheels to the front of the wing, which the spring assembly did perfectly.

RedGN

hey leo

how much is this all going to weigh?

Plywood, retracts, servo, glue, screw, etc...

Leo L

Good question. I'll try to get you an estimate over the weekend.

Glacier Girl

My Feedback: (4)

Red, I see Leo's taking care of you. One thing on the D, now that you installed ailerons.
You may have to tighten down the wing supports to remove some of the dihedral from the wing. The Cubs were like this, not sure on the D. But anyhow if it has a lot of dihedral, or the V shape the wing takes when viewed from the front or back, it will tend to fight the ailerons. Instead of nice banking turns you'll end up with more of a crabbing turn.

Dihedrial helps a plane self right itself. And ailerons want to bank it. So you may end up with the two fighting for control when trying to make a turn.


p.s if you do a little digging I did retracts, both mechanicals and air, way back when, on the PZ Stang. If memory serves me I posted them on the Mustang forums here and over on Watt Flyer.

RedGN

Thank for the info. I have since given up on the ailerons since i tested them and they didn't work. The plane was uncontrollable and i lightly crashed it twice.

I don't want to put much effort into the SD because my son mainly flys it. The retracts are for the spitfire but i don't know how much that will all weigh.

The spitfire flys great right now and i don't want to bog it down.

Thanks

Sinai

I remember reading about the retracts. If it helps,
I dug up this link to the wattflyer PZ p51 thread GlacierGirl told you about (I think its the one)

http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/show...24&t=53&page=3

I fly the stock PZ-Mustang on Lipo and LOVE IT. The SD is special to me because it was the first plane my brother bought. He gave it to me and got me into Flying. That one took the upgrades Leo talked about and I still enjoy it to this day. Now I fly without landing gear and belly land it. But my nose is filled with "Great Stuff" expandable foam so the CG is perfect now. I love it when somebody writes about this little plane. Good luck with your Spit. Oh, and thanks again to GlacierGirl and LeoL for the helpful info on how-to posts. Don't forget the floats by the way... (here you go!)

SuperCub on Floats video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0rOOaLYTRlU