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Need advise on where to start - The Manta

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Old 04-21-2003, 01:29 AM
  #1
JeffTRS
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Default Need advise on where to start - The Manta

Hey guys,

I am ready to buy the Manta as a park flyer. But I don't know where to start and what I should spend on the plane, RC gear, batteries and charger. I am a first time buyer of RC planes.

First I would like to know what places you recommend I get all of this. Is there only one Manta - I seen it referred to as the Mini Manta?

Second, What is the best easy to work with and compatible RC Transmitters and receivers to buy. I am looking to purhcase only one transmitter and put a flight pack in the Manta and possibly an indoor model as well.

Finally - What type of 3 Channel controllers do most of you use? Are the Elevators and Rudders on Separate controllers or on one. I prefer to have the Elevators and Rudders separte myself but I want to know whats the norm these days.

Thanks for your help. I will follow your expert guidence!

Jeff
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Old 04-21-2003, 02:24 AM
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Default Mini Manta

Hi JeffTRS

There are two Manta aircraft and what you want is indeed the Mini Manta [not the much larger Manta] - I can't seem to get on to their site at the moment so I'm playing this by ear.

As far as radio gear goes it has been emphasised by me, and many others, that if you intend to stay in the game for the long-haul you will have spend money on a suitable radio system [FM 4-5 channel minimum with mixer/servo reverse etc]. Hitec, GWS, Futaba............... they are all good, but Hitec makes great stuff and Hobby-Lobby's HTR971R Flash 5 with Micro555 reciever and two HS55 microservos at $159 is about as good as it gets if you intend to fly 300-400 size planes or larger. If you are going to stick to small parkflyers or indoor you might be better off with GWS products - they produce pretty cheap transmitters and offer great deals on flight packs which give you the R-4P receiver, two Pico servos, either 2amp or 5amp ESC and a ?270mAh battery pack.

There is one particular ?280-size motor recommended on the Manta web site and the GWS flight pack with 5amp ESC would probably work for it. A 5:1 geared Graupner Speed 300 would be my choice - but you'd need at least a 10amp ESC for it. I'd go for a Castle Creations Pixie 20 - yes, overkill but you can use it for anything up to a 480 - $39.95 at www.castlerc.com

For batteries you probably need 7 cell 350mAh NiCd or larger, or 8-cell NiMH.

You will also need a good battery charger (FMA SuperNova 250S or GP Triton at about $130 are good choices) - but it will be money better spent than if you get the wrong/cheaper/or plain lousy system.

New Creations RC, Todds Models, FMA, Balsa Products, Maxx Products, Hobby-Lobby and Aeromicro are all good sources to peruse.

Cheers, Phil
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Old 04-22-2003, 02:48 AM
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JeffTRS
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Default This is a good start!

Thank you Phil!

I will order the Mini Manta and a Futuba 3 Channel Controller with Elevators and Rudders on Different controls and a Futuba Flight Pack.

The guy at my local hobby store told me that a Futuba Transmitter will work with a Hitec Receiver which I told are good low cost flight packs for Indoor Models.

I will look at the websites you directed me towards for the best prices.

Anyone else have anything to add?

Jeff
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Old 04-22-2003, 02:59 AM
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Default Need advise on where to start - The Manta

Hey Jeff,

You can get a Hitec Neon 3 channel radio with 555 receiver and 2 HS-81 micro servos for $110.

One place to get it is:

http://www2.omnimodels.com/cgi-bin/woi0093p?&C=JCE

Free shipping on orders over $100 too

Sierra Gold
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Old 04-22-2003, 11:20 AM
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Default Need advise on where to start - The Manta

no,no,no Jeff read again Phil said to get at LEAST a 4 channel radio, if you dont you'll be sorry very soon,,,,as soon as you want to move up you'll need throttle,rudder,elevator, aileron that s 4 count em 4 channels you NEED......even if you dont need it yet you will have it and for gosh sakes dont get some thing you can "add on" later...thats just crazy talk........Rog
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Old 04-22-2003, 11:47 AM
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Default My Error!

Far be it from me to intentionly undermine someone else's good advice.

Jeff's post in front of mine made reference to " The guy at my local hobby store told me that a Futuba Transmitter will work with a Hitec Receiver which I told are good low cost flight packs for Indoor Models." I just didn't understand the mixed brands of equipment on an initial purchase.

If one can afford the 4 channel initially, it probably makes sense for most people.

Although, in my particular case, I have always had use for a 3 channel with electrics and only recently bought a 4 channel as my second radio.

Sierra Gold
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Old 04-22-2003, 12:50 PM
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Default Futaba servos

Hi Jeff - I still reckon you ought to go the 4-channel route, but that is your decision. Check out what sort of Futaba receiver and servos you get in the flight pack - Futaba tends to deal in bigger stuff, and the ONLY servos they produce which are light enough for park flyers etc are the S3103's which, at 8g, are the same weight as Hitec 55's, but still a lot heavier than GWS Pico (5.6g). The next lightest Futaba servos are >16g. I imagine that even the smallest Futaba receiver will also be heavier than a GWS R-4P (5g), or the Hitec Feather (7g) , perhaps about the same as the Hitec 555 (21g). [I know the Futaba SuperSlim is 23g].

Cheers, Phil
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Old 04-26-2003, 12:00 AM
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Default Further thoughts

Jeff,

I finally got to the Manta site again and realized their recommended motor is the M250 for which they make the claim that with an 8x6 APC E prop, it will produce 9.5oz thrust at 5100rpm and draw a maximum of 6amps. Something is wrong here, and I am sufficiently fascinated by their outrageous claims to have ordered one of these motors just to test it!

It seems to me that there are three possibilities:

(1) the laws of physics are different in "Manta-land"

(2) their method for determining static thrust is very different from my "test stand" method, and from all of the theoretical calculations of static thrust produced by the various programs one can access on the net ('LCRC' and 'limeybob' for example)

(3) they are guilty of misleading advertising, or their figures are just plain b.s.

The laws of physics will tell you that no matter what motor you use, or what gear ratio, or what battery source, an 8X6 prop at 5100rpm will produce the same static thrust, no matter what is turning it : and that figure, deduced from dozens of tests (mine and those one can glean from Aeromodelling magazines), and confirmed by these various theoretical computations, is no more than about 6oz (170g)! The figure Manta suggests (and as quoted by suppliers of the M250, such as parkflyer.com) of 9.5oz (270g) would require [again from tests and calculation] somewhere in the order of 6700-7200rpm.

I have obtained the 5100rpm/6oz figure, with an 8x6 prop, from a variety of motors including GWS twin, Speed 300 geared 5:1, Speed 400 geraed 3:1 and MP Jet 25/25-26 Brushless geared 5:1 - all needed about 35W or so input.

To get the 9.5oz figure one needs about 65W input power, and about 7000rpm - you might get that from the M250 using 8-cell 600AE NiCds, but it would require an input in excess of 8 amps to get it (and I can't imagine being able to draw 8 amps into that motor with only an 8x6 prop on it). And if that M250 is geared at nearly 4:1 it would have to turn at close to 28,000rpm to do it!

The same claims are promulgated for the M100 (which is geared 3.89:1) - the parkflyer.com catalog suggests 7oz (200g) static thrust with a 7.2x4.2 prop at 4800rpm on 6-7 cells. According to all the calculation programs I have access to, 4800rpm on this prop will yield only about 3oz (85g) of thrust, and the full 7oz will require at least 7400rpm. The M100 would need to rev to almost 29,000rpm and require about 50W of input power (that's 7-8 amps or so on a 6-7 cell NiCd pack, and even more on an 8-cell NiMH pack because of the voltage drop under load). I don't think so!

Well, that's off my chest. I await my M250 in the mail to see whether I eat crow, or Manta/Parkflyer need to come clean.

After all this protracted diatribe, now you'll understand why I suggested you go the Speed 300 route!

Cheers, Phil
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Old 04-29-2003, 11:15 AM
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Default Need advise on where to start - The Manta

JeffTRS: I’m a little confused when you say “I will order… a Futuba 3 Channel Controller with Elevators and Rudders on Different controls”.

Hopefully you mean that you want elevator and rudder on different CHANNELS, but both on the same STICK. (You don’t want elevator and rudder on separate sticks.) The radio manual explains how the standard Mode 2 setup goes and will make this a lot clearer.
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