F27 STRYKER Part 7 : The Basics To The Darkest of Dark
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RE: F27 STRYKER Part 7 : The Basics To The Darkest of Dark
It's worth a try. I would say the stock prop will be flexing a fair amount under the extra power. If you can get hold of a watt meter I would test it with a 6x5.5 as well.
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RE: F27 STRYKER Part 7 : The Basics To The Darkest of Dark
Thanks for the advice Brazman, that makes sense! Where can I get some "TimTams" at? I used to get them when I was in Iraq from my Aussie airfield supplier, dang those things are good!
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RE: F27 STRYKER Part 7 : The Basics To The Darkest of Dark
lol yeah they are good. If you find some you gotta try this. Put them in the freezer till they get really hard then bight of opposite corners and suck your coffee through it . No idea where you can get them from though..they are everywhere here. Maybe I could send some over lol.
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RE: F27 STRYKER Part 7 : The Basics To The Darkest of Dark
Nah, you dont have to do that, my best mate in the military is an Aussie who just happens to be in the American Army, poor bloke. When I come to visit his family I'll just pick some up. Yes, I've sucked coffee through them, to die for!
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RE: F27 STRYKER Part 7 : The Basics To The Darkest of Dark
speedfreek,
I wish you had bought the MEDUSA 28-40-2500 as I've been recommending to everyone looking at six series 2700 in the Stryker and Funjet forums in and out of RCU. Best extra $4 you would have spent.
Your motor is a lot more powerful compared to Don's 2700 outrunner.
You are under propped. Before I read down far enough to see Brazman's question and your reply, I believed you had picked up roughly 10 MPH already and that you had just not noticed it or were expecting so much more. As Brazman pointed out some of the issue may be the stock prop, I would prop up more either way.
For a very conservative speed increase try 5.5X4.5.
You might want to try a 5.5X5.5 prop for speed gain, but I would personally go with 6X5 for better climbing and about same speed as the 5.5X5.5 prop while pushing the amps more.
Keep an eye on the battery and motor temp. Don't worry if the motor is a little too warm, you can always add a heat sink....You better care more about the battery temp. Try and provide more cooling air to and from the battery. Make some cuts in the rear hatch to let more air out, so more air can come in.
Initially try some throttle management as you feel the battery and motor temps.
Your battery is o.k., but whenever you want to get additional packs for same setup, consider something like a 2200 25C which is a little bit of an upgrade and will let you run at full throttle longer and will fare better in summer heat.
Good luck and have fun,
Gryphon
I wish you had bought the MEDUSA 28-40-2500 as I've been recommending to everyone looking at six series 2700 in the Stryker and Funjet forums in and out of RCU. Best extra $4 you would have spent.
Your motor is a lot more powerful compared to Don's 2700 outrunner.
You are under propped. Before I read down far enough to see Brazman's question and your reply, I believed you had picked up roughly 10 MPH already and that you had just not noticed it or were expecting so much more. As Brazman pointed out some of the issue may be the stock prop, I would prop up more either way.
For a very conservative speed increase try 5.5X4.5.
You might want to try a 5.5X5.5 prop for speed gain, but I would personally go with 6X5 for better climbing and about same speed as the 5.5X5.5 prop while pushing the amps more.
Keep an eye on the battery and motor temp. Don't worry if the motor is a little too warm, you can always add a heat sink....You better care more about the battery temp. Try and provide more cooling air to and from the battery. Make some cuts in the rear hatch to let more air out, so more air can come in.
Initially try some throttle management as you feel the battery and motor temps.
Your battery is o.k., but whenever you want to get additional packs for same setup, consider something like a 2200 25C which is a little bit of an upgrade and will let you run at full throttle longer and will fare better in summer heat.
Good luck and have fun,
Gryphon
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RE: F27 STRYKER Part 7 : The Basics To The Darkest of Dark
ORIGINAL: Gryphon
critterhunter,
Welcome back to the thread. As you can see chippedprop is doing an awesome job and been around since part 1 of the Stryker series, way before you and me.
Check out his very first post on part 1, before the top line of his very first post was finished he was giving advice.....LOL...BRAVO Chippedprop. [sm=thumbup.gif]
I read some of his posts on every single thread that he has ever been on in RCUniverse (surprise), so I made a very informed choice and with the blessing and total approval of all mighty Glacier Girl (Brad) the decision became final.
Check out his Into video on post #1 of this thread.
He neither wants to suggest the most expensive parts, nor does he want to sacrifice on great performance unless specifically asked by the person he is helping.
When I noticed that he does care about leaving some breathing room in his suggested setups and that they were efficient while having performance.....I knew he was going to serve the people well and that the folks wouldn't outgrow the suggested parts that soon and would actually saved money in the shorter run compared to my suggestions which save money in the long run.
Obviously he has kept up with the changing times. F-27B is obsolete and not sold anymore last time I checked. So most people are now after upgrading their F-27C Strykers at various levels. I believe the stock F-27C motor should be able to handle roughly 500W when properly setup.
So after an initial prop upgrade, next level would be battery and ESC upgrade.
If you have a list of some proven battery and ESC components at a fair price, I'm sure the folks could benefit from that greatly. Maybe at a couple of different performance levels at up to 40-45A constant capability with 3S and 4S.
People can easily be setup with small props initially and as they get used to speed they can simply change props for $2-$3.
Part 6 thread showed that people listen well when asked to run small props at first, and then gradually prop up. So performance, future scalability, saving money in long term with high quality parts, were not at odds with safety with proper guidance.
I'm sure we can keep the same trend going as far as various performance levels and safety without unduly scaring folks. The idea of starting with smaller props really paid off big time.
Later guys,
Gryphon
critterhunter,
Welcome back to the thread. As you can see chippedprop is doing an awesome job and been around since part 1 of the Stryker series, way before you and me.
Check out his very first post on part 1, before the top line of his very first post was finished he was giving advice.....LOL...BRAVO Chippedprop. [sm=thumbup.gif]
I read some of his posts on every single thread that he has ever been on in RCUniverse (surprise), so I made a very informed choice and with the blessing and total approval of all mighty Glacier Girl (Brad) the decision became final.
Check out his Into video on post #1 of this thread.
He neither wants to suggest the most expensive parts, nor does he want to sacrifice on great performance unless specifically asked by the person he is helping.
When I noticed that he does care about leaving some breathing room in his suggested setups and that they were efficient while having performance.....I knew he was going to serve the people well and that the folks wouldn't outgrow the suggested parts that soon and would actually saved money in the shorter run compared to my suggestions which save money in the long run.
Obviously he has kept up with the changing times. F-27B is obsolete and not sold anymore last time I checked. So most people are now after upgrading their F-27C Strykers at various levels. I believe the stock F-27C motor should be able to handle roughly 500W when properly setup.
So after an initial prop upgrade, next level would be battery and ESC upgrade.
If you have a list of some proven battery and ESC components at a fair price, I'm sure the folks could benefit from that greatly. Maybe at a couple of different performance levels at up to 40-45A constant capability with 3S and 4S.
People can easily be setup with small props initially and as they get used to speed they can simply change props for $2-$3.
Part 6 thread showed that people listen well when asked to run small props at first, and then gradually prop up. So performance, future scalability, saving money in long term with high quality parts, were not at odds with safety with proper guidance.
I'm sure we can keep the same trend going as far as various performance levels and safety without unduly scaring folks. The idea of starting with smaller props really paid off big time.
Later guys,
Gryphon
Glad to see the thread is blooming. Will be throwing up some new "Streaker" (streamlined Stryker) pics/mods/and custom winded motor info soon too. She's almost done and I like what I see! [8D]
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RE: F27 STRYKER Part 7 : The Basics To The Darkest of Dark
whoohoo, my Cellpro charger came in the mail today!! That means I get to solder connections and 12v cigeratte lighter adaptors!! I'm so stoked! Cant wait to go to work with burned fingers!!! Quick question for Gryph, if I were to shave down my 6*5.5 prop to 5*5.5 and use it on the 2700kv dons motor, with my 2200v 20C battery, and 40amp ESC, what would be the comparison to a 5*4.5 prop? I would use motorcalc, but I dont know all the specs for my motor, was hoping you would have better info.
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RE: F27 STRYKER Part 7 : The Basics To The Darkest of Dark
ORIGINAL: Gryphon
Stryker_Viking,
I’m not sure what you meant when you said: by adding weight it will make the plane slower.
I think you mean it in some other context. I’m sure that you know weight does not affect speed, it can affect other things but not max speed.
Stryker_Viking,
I’m not sure what you meant when you said: by adding weight it will make the plane slower.
I think you mean it in some other context. I’m sure that you know weight does not affect speed, it can affect other things but not max speed.
Any weight increase will also increase wing load.
It’s pretty basic actually if you think about it…
When comparing two wings at the same speed but with different wing loads;
The one with the higher wing load will need higher angle of attack to achieve the necessary lift = Increased drag = Lower speed…
In addition to an added plain reality that to accomplish this higher angle of attack an input of the control surface must be there = Increased drag = Lower speed…
Makes sense, doesn’t it…?
Got To run now - going flying...
Stryker_Viking
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RE: F27 STRYKER Part 7 : The Basics To The Darkest of Dark
I think I'm the only Air Force guy here (may be wrong) but I wanted to let all you R/C guys know, that the Air Force "recently" allowed UAV pilots be allowed to wear wings on there flight suits. So, if you own and fly an R/C aircraft, go ahead and pin on those wings before you go to school, work, or your local LHS. That way you'll be "in uniform"!!
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RE: F27 STRYKER Part 7 : The Basics To The Darkest of Dark
Stryker_Viking,
When flying full speed, the plane is level and there is no angle of attack.
So are you talking about speed difference at part throttle?
I wish you would be more accurate with your comments.
Gryphon
When flying full speed, the plane is level and there is no angle of attack.
So are you talking about speed difference at part throttle?
I wish you would be more accurate with your comments.
Gryphon
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RE: F27 STRYKER Part 7 : The Basics To The Darkest of Dark
Ok, I actually know something about this subject in regards to aircraft and the effects of weight on an aircraft. For Gryphs sake I shall try to be concise! <grin>
Here is an excerpt from the manual used by loadmasters for loading aircraft. It shows, without going into details, the negative effects of weight. Also, when an aircraft makes a 60degree bank, you double your g's. So the more weight, combined with speed, you can overload your wings, causing, in the least, loss of lift, worse case scenario you get the blew wing theory, "One blew that way, one blew the other way. In our case, I wouldnt be overly concerned, due to if it approached those weights, you couldnt even throw the bird fast enough to get it off the ground. Feel free to shoot heat rounds at me, I've got thick skin and dont mind. We can all learn together.
The most important performance deficiencies of the overweight airplane are:
Higher takeoff speed.
Longer takeoff run.
Reduced rate and angle of climb.
Lower maximum altitude.
Shorter range.
Reduced cruising speed.
Reduced maneuverability.
Higher stalling speed.
Higher landing speed.
Longer landing roll.
Here is a website that explains it all with the math, because I know some of you LOVE MATH!!!
http://www.aerospaceweb.org/question...ce/q0146.shtml
Here is an excerpt from the manual used by loadmasters for loading aircraft. It shows, without going into details, the negative effects of weight. Also, when an aircraft makes a 60degree bank, you double your g's. So the more weight, combined with speed, you can overload your wings, causing, in the least, loss of lift, worse case scenario you get the blew wing theory, "One blew that way, one blew the other way. In our case, I wouldnt be overly concerned, due to if it approached those weights, you couldnt even throw the bird fast enough to get it off the ground. Feel free to shoot heat rounds at me, I've got thick skin and dont mind. We can all learn together.
The most important performance deficiencies of the overweight airplane are:
Higher takeoff speed.
Longer takeoff run.
Reduced rate and angle of climb.
Lower maximum altitude.
Shorter range.
Reduced cruising speed.
Reduced maneuverability.
Higher stalling speed.
Higher landing speed.
Longer landing roll.
Here is a website that explains it all with the math, because I know some of you LOVE MATH!!!
http://www.aerospaceweb.org/question...ce/q0146.shtml
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RE: F27 STRYKER Part 7 : The Basics To The Darkest of Dark
Flightops_69,
Please comment on max speed; will adding weight make the plane slower?
Of course when we aim for max speed we are doing tradeoffs.
The following does not apply to our case given several reasons such as bigger battery packs, more power, and range of radio.
Higher takeoff speed. (with the nose partly up, the thrust of the motor is used, still a firm throw though).
Longer takeoff run.
Reduced rate and angle of climb.
Lower maximum altitude.
Shorter range.
Please comment on max speed; will adding weight make the plane slower?
Of course when we aim for max speed we are doing tradeoffs.
The following does not apply to our case given several reasons such as bigger battery packs, more power, and range of radio.
Higher takeoff speed. (with the nose partly up, the thrust of the motor is used, still a firm throw though).
Longer takeoff run.
Reduced rate and angle of climb.
Lower maximum altitude.
Shorter range.
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RE: F27 STRYKER Part 7 : The Basics To The Darkest of Dark
In level flight, the quick answer is no. In my thinking, it will only affect speed (in level flight) if the power required to reach max speed (with added weight) is unattainable if the thrust required cannot be met due to overloaded power systems ie... battery, motor, esc. Thats an extreme example I cant personnly see anyone putting a car battery on a stryker. (to make a far fetched analogy) I'm sure there is a better way to word this, but I'm hungry and need to go fly before I have to go to work.
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RE: F27 STRYKER Part 7 : The Basics To The Darkest of Dark
I work in a room full of Air Force pilots, I will ask them tonight. They can give a better worded answer.
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RE: F27 STRYKER Part 7 : The Basics To The Darkest of Dark
Flightops_69,
Cool. Just make sure that it pertains to our R/C planes and that they know the extra weight is going into heavier packs and bigger motors and are making up to 20 times more power and range of radio and eye sight, hand launch followed by immediate vertical climb, etc...
There is always many factors involved.
Have fun at work...wish I was there with you all,
Gryphon
Cool. Just make sure that it pertains to our R/C planes and that they know the extra weight is going into heavier packs and bigger motors and are making up to 20 times more power and range of radio and eye sight, hand launch followed by immediate vertical climb, etc...
There is always many factors involved.
Have fun at work...wish I was there with you all,
Gryphon
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RE: F27 STRYKER Part 7 : The Basics To The Darkest of Dark
It would depend on the aircrafts airfoil to some degree i would imagine. If the aircraft needs a higher angle of attack to fly level due to increased weight then it will be slower. This isn't a problem with a stryker of any sane weight as it has plenty of lift to overcome the increased weight. In fact it could be argued that since at speed an average weight stryker needs some negative angle of attack to stop it from flying into the clouds a heavier plane may be a touch faster.
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RE: F27 STRYKER Part 7 : The Basics To The Darkest of Dark
Owner of Medusa and I had a chance to talk on the phone today. We were on agreement with each other on just about everything.
Biggest 2 things we agreed on were the following:
The general statement by Stryker_Viking: "Medusa handles more AMPs than MEGA" was not accurate because there is always more factors involved.
And although he did not tell me who involved him, he saw that he was brought in for the wrong reasons.
__________________
We discussed how to proceed; I said however you want to and suggest, he said the same thing. Since we could not think of anything great we decided to delete the posts as simplest solution.
MRI is awesome and very knowledgeable.
Medusa Products are great and on a case by case basis they have been getting recommended more often than any other motor manufacturer's products by me on the various forums that I post on (in the last couple/few months).
That is why it is always a good idea to ask a person several questions before recommending anything.
Gryphon
Biggest 2 things we agreed on were the following:
The general statement by Stryker_Viking: "Medusa handles more AMPs than MEGA" was not accurate because there is always more factors involved.
And although he did not tell me who involved him, he saw that he was brought in for the wrong reasons.
__________________
We discussed how to proceed; I said however you want to and suggest, he said the same thing. Since we could not think of anything great we decided to delete the posts as simplest solution.
MRI is awesome and very knowledgeable.
Medusa Products are great and on a case by case basis they have been getting recommended more often than any other motor manufacturer's products by me on the various forums that I post on (in the last couple/few months).
That is why it is always a good idea to ask a person several questions before recommending anything.
Gryphon
#347
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RE: F27 STRYKER Part 7 : The Basics To The Darkest of Dark
Well I see some very interesting things on here
Weight very interesting I feel that weight is a factor in overall
gavity is always presentthe heavier the mass the more the object weighs
A fully loaded plane will weigh more-gavity is trying to pull the plane to the ground -a plane must use forward speed to generate lift to fly
thru a combo of speed and lift (many diff airfoils=big # of variables) a plane will fly-added weight will make the plane sink- we will use a constant of 60 mph
in this example
In our 60 mph plane nothing will change-except added weight to the cg point as to not change the balance
The more you add the heavier it becomes-plane must add power to stay at 60-to make more lift to over come the weight.
I know from flying in light general aviation planes (super cub-brother inlaws) that as you start with a full load of fuel-get to cruise alt. trim to fly level hands off-and fly for 1-2 hours the plane will pick up speed and will climb by it's self as it gets lighter - the cg does not change as the tank is over the CG-only the weight changes
Yes I know that a heavy srtyker with the right combo of motor and batts. will make more power and speed just to over come the added weight
Any way that's my point of view - lighter is better
CP
Weight very interesting I feel that weight is a factor in overall
gavity is always presentthe heavier the mass the more the object weighs
A fully loaded plane will weigh more-gavity is trying to pull the plane to the ground -a plane must use forward speed to generate lift to fly
thru a combo of speed and lift (many diff airfoils=big # of variables) a plane will fly-added weight will make the plane sink- we will use a constant of 60 mph
in this example
In our 60 mph plane nothing will change-except added weight to the cg point as to not change the balance
The more you add the heavier it becomes-plane must add power to stay at 60-to make more lift to over come the weight.
I know from flying in light general aviation planes (super cub-brother inlaws) that as you start with a full load of fuel-get to cruise alt. trim to fly level hands off-and fly for 1-2 hours the plane will pick up speed and will climb by it's self as it gets lighter - the cg does not change as the tank is over the CG-only the weight changes
Yes I know that a heavy srtyker with the right combo of motor and batts. will make more power and speed just to over come the added weight
Any way that's my point of view - lighter is better
CP
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RE: F27 STRYKER Part 7 : The Basics To The Darkest of Dark
Hi guys,
As many have recommended, I upgraded my stock F-27C servos to Hitec HS-82MG. To my dismay, I installed them but later realized they make a buzzing sound similar to in this youtube [link]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nZcEnjn49WY[/link]video. What is a stripped servo? Is this the case... they are new or atleast supposed to be new. The comments in the youtube video suggest somethign about neutral being off. I took off the servo arms and it still makes that buzzing sound, even moving a little without any input (that is, it jitters even without me touching the Tx). At the time of purchase, the salesman at my local hobby shop used a little device to check to see if the servos were working, but rather hastily, and i do not recall if the servos made this sound or jitter initially. But these two problem manifested themselves once I installed them in my bird.
Any help/advice is greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.
As many have recommended, I upgraded my stock F-27C servos to Hitec HS-82MG. To my dismay, I installed them but later realized they make a buzzing sound similar to in this youtube [link]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nZcEnjn49WY[/link]video. What is a stripped servo? Is this the case... they are new or atleast supposed to be new. The comments in the youtube video suggest somethign about neutral being off. I took off the servo arms and it still makes that buzzing sound, even moving a little without any input (that is, it jitters even without me touching the Tx). At the time of purchase, the salesman at my local hobby shop used a little device to check to see if the servos were working, but rather hastily, and i do not recall if the servos made this sound or jitter initially. But these two problem manifested themselves once I installed them in my bird.
Any help/advice is greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.
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RE: F27 STRYKER Part 7 : The Basics To The Darkest of Dark
My argument is that a given airfoil makes a certain amount of lift at a given speed. So long as the foil is making enough lift to counteract the weight of the plane then no addition angle of attack is required to keep it in level flight and therefore no extra drag is created. If the foil doesn't make enough lift to counteract weight then some angle of attack is required to keep the aircraft level. In this case the more the aircraft weighs the higher the angle of attack required to keep it level and hence more drag will be experienced. So in this case you would be correct that a heavier plane will be slower. However conversely if an aircraft were to create more lift than is required to stay in level flight then a nose down condition will have to be used to keep the aircraft from climbing. This negative angle of attack would also induce drag. I'm not an expert in the field so this is all coming from my head and I could be very wrong. I'm not sure how much the excess lift in a nose down condition would attribute to forward motion though I doubt it would cancel the drag created. I will do some reading an inform myself . Interesting subject so I'm sure it's been discussed elsewhere.