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Parkzone NEW BRUSHLESS (YES!!!) P-51 Mustang RTF and BNF

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Old 11-13-2009, 02:23 AM
  #301
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Default RE: Parkzone NEW BRUSHLESS (YES!!!) P-51 Mustang RTF and BNF

Dave, yes, I am addicted to my modified full scale like flaps. I wasn't that impressed with the stock flap system on the PZ 109 but the nearly 70 % increase in flap area that I added really makes a difference in landing speed and flight behavior. You can tell the plane is more sensitive in it's roll reaction. The plane controls noticeably different.

Flying just above stall speed even at altitude you can see the ship react to flap movement. You might notice that I drilled an extra hole in the flap horn just to get every last degree of deflection angle. FLAP DETAIL
http://community-2.webtv.net/RICHARD...ORY/page7.html

I can't wait for some good weather to really enjoy my new killer 109s along with the war winning P-51 GUNFIGHTER, of course.

"OFF WE GO INTO THE WILD BLUE YONDER!" ( I wish!)

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Old 11-14-2009, 05:30 PM
  #302
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Default RE: Parkzone NEW BRUSHLESS (YES!!!) P-51 Mustang RTF and BNF

Greetings fans of the Parkzone P-51!

I had my first flights with mine this morning, and on the third flight had the inevitable crash. (I am a newish flyer, having just taken to this in July, and having spent almost all of my flying time to date on a SuperCub.)After the crash I had to epoxy a few things back together and the plane now looks ready to fly again. With one exception: my ailerons are out of whack, and I can't see how to get them back where they belong. I am using the plane (it's the BNF version) with a Spektrum DX6i, and it has no custom settings. I confess that with all switched off I tried to physically push the ailerons into the correct position (after playing with adjustments for a while) but nothing seems to get them back to neutral. What would do this? There's no visible damage, though I guess there could be something internal, but the servos are covered and hard to get to. I am baffled. Nothing was changed on the settings on the remote. ?????

HHEEEEELLLPPPP!!!!



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Old 11-16-2009, 12:48 PM
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Default RE: Parkzone NEW BRUSHLESS (YES!!!) P-51 Mustang RTF and BNF

As long as the servos still function properly (i.e. no stripped gears), just center the trim on your radio, and then center the ailerons by adjusting the control arm position and linkage length.
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Old 11-16-2009, 03:29 PM
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Default RE: Parkzone NEW BRUSHLESS (YES!!!) P-51 Mustang RTF and BNF

pkh, Good going! I thought about saying the same thing you did but wasn't sure at the time that all of the information needed was available. Unless there actually is more data needed, it now seems obvious that your application of the "kiss principle" (keep it simple stupid) was brilliantly on target.

Dave, just a quick follow up on the flap discussion.

Please click on the next url to bring up flap pictures on the "under construction" web site. The bottom of page 6 shows full flaps and flaps retracted.
CALL TO GLORY! Page 7 (see bottom of Page 6 to see model with flaps)
http://community-2.webtv.net/RICHARD...ORY/page7.html

By the end of the week I hope to have some useful text installed.

I finally found my GUNFIGHTER'S problem. It turns out that I failed to install sufficient weight in the right wing tip. I don't know why I have done so many stupid things with my P-51. You would think I was deliberately trying to destroy it.

The GUNFIGHTER will always be brought along for fighter escort work when other fighters are taken out for action until appropriate combat maneuvering and air show flying performance competency levels are attained.

I HATE MY BAD WEATHER!

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Old 11-17-2009, 11:11 AM
  #305
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Default RE: Parkzone NEW BRUSHLESS (YES!!!) P-51 Mustang RTF and BNF

Mad,

In the BF 109 thread, you recommended getting the P51BL before the the BF109. Any reasons? I'm flying Nitro right now and am very comfortable with my Big Stik 60 with a 90 engine. Would I have any trouble with the Gunfighter or BF109?
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Old 11-17-2009, 04:27 PM
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Default RE: Parkzone NEW BRUSHLESS (YES!!!) P-51 Mustang RTF and BNF

Denver, the issue on my mind at the time was the cost in breaking into PF fighters. The quality of PZ warbirds has been so great in my opinion that when I simply saw the numbers describing the 109, I tried but failed to resist buying a "gaggle" of them instead of only one lone Messerschmitt to face all of my allied fighters! I would guess that you would have very little problem flying any PZ warbird given your flying experience.

I try to be as objective as possible but between just you and me, I am personally absolutely crazy about my 109s. The GUNFIGHTER is a terrific value and as a model of arguably the greatest fighter of all time, I owe it to posterity to honor that legacy. Besides, it still produces the neatest dead stick diving sound of all.

My slightly modified F4U is the easiest landing plane and sounds great with its modified APC SF prop, but the virtually perfect scale 109 prop and spinner of the 109 produces subjective aesthetics effects that along with my slightly modified working flaps, just blows me away!

The GUNFIGHTER is also really great to have along in case runway conditions keeps the flapped/landing gear equipped 109 grounded. Yes, I could bring the "retracted gear" (no landing gear/flaps 109) but for reasons mentioned above, etc., the GUNFIGHTER will fly escort duties while I sharpen landing and take off skills.

The weather has all fighters grounded until further notice.

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Old 11-20-2009, 08:10 PM
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Default RE: Parkzone NEW BRUSHLESS (YES!!!) P-51 Mustang RTF and BNF

Well, I have not bought the P-51 yet, but I do have the T-28D and the Corsair. I happen to live about 5 miles west of Luke AFB on the west side of Phoenix and my duaghter goes to school just east of Luke. Tonight I picked her up from school and was driving home past the south end of the Luke runway. My daughter spotted two aircraft in the pattern flying formation and they were definitely not F-16s, you know straight wings and propellers in the gfront and all. She initally said Dad, those are T-28s. The first sircraft turned in toward the runway and then she said no Dad, look it is a Corsair. Sure enough it had the blue color scheme and came right over our truck. I pulled over and tracked it into the runway as it landed, but it was not a gull wing and could not possibly be a Corsair. Then the second aircraft turned on to final and sure enough it was definitely a P-51! That aircraft did not land, it did a low flyby down the runway and came around again. Guess what, during the second circuit is was obvious, not only was this a P-51, but with the yellow tail it was obviously the orignal Gunfighter! Now I have to get one after seeing the original in action. The real Gunfighter did several circuits and appear to be practicing for an airshow thie weekend.
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Old 11-21-2009, 01:47 AM
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Default RE: Parkzone NEW BRUSHLESS (YES!!!) P-51 Mustang RTF and BNF

Dr bo Loops ,rolls ,touch and go's and invert flight on the t-28,but this looks fast,hh put one on the truck for me. Going to install rudder servo too.Cant wait, might get our expert to trim before i take over the sticks thanks frank
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Old 11-22-2009, 01:41 AM
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Default RE: Parkzone NEW BRUSHLESS (YES!!!) P-51 Mustang RTF and BNF

wpotter, congratulations on spotting that GUNFIGHTER! You and Frank are guaranteed to enjoy PZ's addictive P-51 model. Mine actually requires a slight amount of up trim as opposed to my other prop driven fighters that ether require slightly down trim or level. I mention that to encourage pilots to not make the same mistake that I did recently.

Frank, you will adapt to the speed more quickly than you think. It's gliding characteristics are different than you are use to. I find it very helpful to spiral in gradually, testing the throttle and glide rate which will give you the confidence to touch down close enough to see the ship well enough to make a nice landing.

Frank was a high performance Japanese fighter that some sources claim could out perform the P-51. The next url brings up interesting info that includes the Frank and a whole lot more neat info.

Best Fighter Planes of WWII
http://www.chuckhawks.com/best_fighter_planes.htm

Please let us know about your first flights.

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Old 11-23-2009, 08:14 PM
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Default RE: Parkzone NEW BRUSHLESS (YES!!!) P-51 Mustang RTF and BNF

I am lost, ordered the p-51 and my expert tells me that i now need a radio, i used my futaba on the t-28 and put a micro 2.4 and a way we go, tell me i dont need a new radio,got rid of all of the old ones and put new modles on my futaba 10-c, thanks frank
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Old 11-23-2009, 09:53 PM
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Default RE: Parkzone NEW BRUSHLESS (YES!!!) P-51 Mustang RTF and BNF

Hi Frank - I got myself a P51 p'n'p Gunfighter, installed a Futaba 2.4 ghz receiver, one of my batteries and away I went. The only other thing I had to do was change the connectors on the speed controller from the Parkzone proprietary pattern to the ones I'm using on my other models. Sounds like all should turn out well for you.
Cheers, Dave
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Old 11-24-2009, 10:02 AM
  #312
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Default RE: Parkzone NEW BRUSHLESS (YES!!!) P-51 Mustang RTF and BNF

I canceled my p-51,learing the hard way[&:] , but dont need the charger, have a hyperion[8D] ,battery,reciever and so forth. I have all futaba and going to order the replacement body and install all my gear myself, servos speed controler,motor, will this work the only thing iam afraid of is the motor mound[], will it fit .should i try this? thanks to all frank
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Old 11-24-2009, 08:12 PM
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Default RE: Parkzone NEW BRUSHLESS (YES!!!) P-51 Mustang RTF and BNF

Whether it will work or not I guess depends on how much work you're prepared to do to make your parts fit into a Parkzone airframe. If you use their motor, it will bolt straight onto the standard motor mount. Otherwise, you might need to make a mount to suit whatever motor you plan to use. As for me, I went the easy way and bought something almost ready to fly with servos, speed controller and motor already installed. And I'm pleased with the result - I had the Gunfighter flying this morning in stronger winds than I've been in before, and it flew well.

I expect you've been to the PZ parts list for the Gunfighter here http://www.parkzone.com/Products/Rel...g&SubCategory=
The parts list doesn't say if the motor mount is included with the bare fuse, so you might need one of those to go with the wing and fuse.

Hope you have a lot of fun with yours when it's ready to fly.

Cheers, Dave
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Old 11-25-2009, 11:48 PM
  #314
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Default RE: Parkzone NEW BRUSHLESS (YES!!!) P-51 Mustang RTF and BNF

hey i put a turnigy 35-36a with a pac 9x4.5 on my p-51 and if you want a way to make your p-51 fly amazing...thats the way to go....i also had a 50a esc and a 2200mah 25c zippy...and i now love it....but i am at 6000ft so i do need allot more power
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Old 11-26-2009, 12:01 AM
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Default RE: Parkzone NEW BRUSHLESS (YES!!!) P-51 Mustang RTF and BNF


Quote:
ORIGINAL: bigdog5332

hey i put a turnigy 35-36a with a pac 9x4.5 on my p-51 and if you want a way to make your p-51 fly amazing...thats the way to go....i also had a 50a esc and a 2200mah 25c zippy...and i now love it....but i am at 6000ft so i do need allot more power
Hi Bigdog, That sounds impressive! I've got a Turnigy 28-36 1100kv motor spinning a 9 x 4.5 APC prop in my hotrod Hobby Zone Super Cub and that is not short of power at all! Accelerating vertical climbs are a speciality :-) I've got a spare motor on the shelf, so perhaps I should upgrade my Gunfighter soon .....

How was mounting your motor in the Gunfighter? Any chance of a photo to show how you did it?

Cheers, Dave
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Old 11-26-2009, 10:46 PM
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Default RE: Parkzone NEW BRUSHLESS (YES!!!) P-51 Mustang RTF and BNF

G'day Dave, great to see you as well as others continuing to enjoy the war winning GUNFIGHTER. I still need a lot of practice in order to fly more precisely as I believe I ought, but, at least I am crashing much less frequently now, and possible new prospects do seem to be favorably impressed. So, after all, the 51 is a fighter with real thoroughbred characteristics and I should expect at least some high strung characteristics, right? Regardless, I am committed to learning to fly better, especially if I can just find the time. You wouldn't believe how busy retirement can be!

Anyway, it would surely be very remiss of me to leave out possible modeling enthusiasts who read mostly only this thread about the [X(] "NUCLEAR EXPLOSION," figuratively speaking, in the science community that in my opinion is closely related to a lot of what many of us do.
The fact is we are all going to be affected regardless what we may believe, so why not enjoy making modeling an exciting part of the war that is being forced upon us sort of like what some of us are already doing?

Okay, here is some world changing information that just might eventually make it possible for us to buy even more fighters: Climategate: the final nail in the coffin of ?Anthropogenic Global Warming?? ? Telegraph Blogs
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/ja...lobal-warming/

Senator to demand probe of global-warming 'fraud'
http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=117017

Have you ever heard of flying ". . . on a wing and a prayer?" After you read the above articles I guarantee that you are very likely to experience similar emotions to our war weary pilot who wonders if he is going to make it home.

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Old 11-26-2009, 11:24 PM
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Default RE: Parkzone NEW BRUSHLESS (YES!!!) P-51 Mustang RTF and BNF

G'day madweb - well, global warming is way off this thread topic, so I'll maybe pick that up elsewhere.

Meanwhile, my Gunfighter is still the weapon of choice when it's a windy day here in NZ. It's fast enough to beat a 15 mph wind with gusts well above that, and stable enough to cope with the rolling turbulence that surrounds our club airstrip. There are gullies on two sides and a windbreak for a kiwifruit orchard on the third, so no matter what the direction there is likely to be turbulence. My current challenge is to make every stall turn just what I want it to be ... and I'm nowhere near that yet. You mentioned recently doing a horizontal 8 - was that really a vertical 8?

And the G is still waiting for its first crash, I'm pleased to report - unlike the poor old hotrod Cub that hit the ground in a big way a couple of weeks back, calling for a pretty major rebuild. But I still love that old thing that helped me learn and is now more like a pylon racer than a basic trainer. As one of the club stalwarts noted the other day, I've certainly had my money's worth out of the Cub!

Keep those ships in the air and have fun :-)

Dave
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Old 11-27-2009, 12:37 AM
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Default RE: Parkzone NEW BRUSHLESS (YES!!!) P-51 Mustang RTF and BNF

Dave, your right, our emphasis needs to be planes. My problem is my personal need to justify all the time I enjoy with my toys. This is accomplished by relating our model methods to honest scientific procedures common in so much of what life is all about. I like to see modeling and modelers respected as special, especially with young people as honest and culturally relevant in inspiring learning and sustainable cultural values. Sorry if I come on too strong at times.

I love to fly a large inside loop and as the ship becomes vertical on the back side ease in down elevator to fly a large outside loop. The final trim flight of my new "retracted gear/flapless" (no gear) PZ 109 was so smooth and controllable that I couldn't resist flying another consecutive horizontal eight. I have done vertical eights and combination vertical and horizontal eights to demonstrate energy management. I especially enjoyed doing these with my modified motor powered gliders.

At the moment I am concentrating on the problems of vertical maneuvering flight. In dead calm air I can get easily recognizable square and triangle maneuvers. Any wind at all and I'm just not satisfied with my performance. Yesterday, my maximum performance climb to altitude with the GUNFIGHTER was so sloppy you would never have guessed what I was trying to do if you had witnessed it.

Yes, please keep on having fun and sharing it.

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Old 12-01-2009, 11:06 PM
  #319
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Default RE: Parkzone NEW BRUSHLESS (YES!!!) P-51 Mustang RTF and BNF

Dave, I failed to congratulate you on your progress and the news that you have not crashed yet. So, please consider yourself to now be officially congratulated.

Not counting that bad hand launch I reported earlier, I actually impacted solid matter that broke my fuselage in two on two (blush) different occasions. Today's first flight tested a 25c 1000mAh battery with a full throttle take off. The full throttle thrust was so great that I felt like something was surely going to pull apart. Two attempts to fly a modified full throttle maximum performance climb to altitude didn't pan out very well today. It seems so simple but so far the GUNFIGHTER has managed to stray off the straight and narrow with me trying to keep up with it every time I have tried to fly any maximum performance climb maneuver. I loved the way the plane behaved with that light battery. It will mainly be used in WWI fighters.

On the second attempt a 2100 mAh 15c battery was used and I foolishly launched with too little power. This launch into the wind might not have been so bad but the direction of launch was to the left rather than the much safer right side of the wind direction. I experienced the very first almost fatal torque roll to the left ever with this plane on launch. Fortunately, the launch was successful in the increasingly turbulent weather.

I found that by starting a square loop by entering straight into the wind today that it was practical to fly a reasonably recognizable maneuver with victory rolls on the flat sides, something that a full sized WWII fighter has done at air shows as has been reported. I still don't fly low enough yet.

The P-51 is finally consistently demonstrating good lateral trim, flying outside loops without rolling out like it was doing before I added quite a bit of weight to the right wing tip. I noticed that when flying the 109 today that my right thumb was guilty of unintentionally adding aileron that has surely been at least partially responsible for my bad control behavior.

One other little thing I have been working on for quite some time now and have actually built a model of for a model airplane engine to illustrate the principles of "free energy" may finally become public.
Please dare to click: http://community-2.webtv.net/RICHARD...RGY/page2.html

I am going to stick with electric motors regardless of possible "free energy fun." Engines are just too messy for me except for special occasions.

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Old 12-02-2009, 07:43 PM
  #320
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Default RE: Parkzone NEW BRUSHLESS (YES!!!) P-51 Mustang RTF and BNF

I have one of these planes and have flown it a few times now. Flies great - I bought the RTF version. It acts like the cg is a little forward as it tends to drop its nose when landing, and with the 18 amp speed control the motor doesn't idle very low without cutting out. The cutting out happens regardless of how much charge is in the battery. So without a low idle the motor is sort of on at about 1/3 throttle or off. but I have figured out how to gauge the landings so they do not "doink" the nose into the ground. I also ground off some of the ridges on the cooling air scoop plastic plate (the one under the wing) and added some packing tape there so the plane slides more when landing.

I have a couple of questions -

1. The battery seems to get kind of warm to me. have you guys added more clearance so more air passes through the fuselage to cool the esc and battery? Its been about 50F here when I've been flying it and if it gets warm now it will get HOT when its 85-90F.

2. Has anyone tried moving the battery back a bit so the cg is at the ovals? The cg on mine is about 1/4 inch ahead (toward the prop) form the front edge of the ovals. The manual say the cg should be at the ovals so I wondered what you had found/tried.

3. What paint are you using to paint this plane that won't affect the foam?

Thanks for your help.

Ed
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Old 12-02-2009, 08:41 PM
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Default RE: Parkzone NEW BRUSHLESS (YES!!!) P-51 Mustang RTF and BNF

Hi Ed - my plane is stock, apart from the battery and the connectors to the ESC. Mostly I use Hyperion 3S 1600 25C batteries, and they don't get warm so's you'd notice, even with a lot of full throttle flying. The other day I did use a cheapo 1700 20C battery, and that was warm on landing after quite a gentle flight. Maybe it's the type of battery that affects how warm it all gets? I've not done anything to change the airflow. We're in early summer temperatures here in NZ, mid-20s Celsius (whatever that is in F).

I've got Futaba 2.4ghz radio kit and have used the trims to set the low speed throttle to how I want it. Mostly I bring it in to land quite fast, shut the throttle off when the model is around head height and focus on trying to get a smooth touch down from there. The glide works well for me, and the CoG balance is exactly where the maker says it should be :-) Maybe there's something heavy up the front of your model that was manufactured in? I've just put together a Great Planes Sopwith Camel from Tower Hobbies - that had good reviews on the forums and others have found, as I did, that it's tail-heavy and needs a load of lead (3-1/2 oz up front) to balance as it should. Maybe yours is the other way round ... which at least makes it flyable. Tail heavy is bad news all round, eh!

The only paint I've put on mine is water-based acrylic, which I used to touch up the cuts where I made the rudder into a working feature. So far it hasn't washed off, and it certainly won't attack the foam. Solvent based enamel will dissolve some types of foam, but I've no idea if the P51's foam would resist it. No doubt others who've done more painting will give you good advice on that.

Have fun with it!
Dave
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Old 12-03-2009, 10:44 AM
  #322
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Default RE: Parkzone NEW BRUSHLESS (YES!!!) P-51 Mustang RTF and BNF

what kind of flight times will I get with the stock 1300Mamp battery?
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Old 12-03-2009, 03:38 PM
  #323
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Default RE: Parkzone NEW BRUSHLESS (YES!!!) P-51 Mustang RTF and BNF

Mine hasn't flown a lot - maybe 6+ flights, with 4-5 using the 1300 milliamp battery. Most of those I limited to 3-5 minutes - trying to use maybe 1/2 charge or so, although those flights were pretty much at full throttle for as long as they lasted. the last one I flew for about 8 minutes and still seemed to have some charge left- at least the stock esc hadn't started to reduce power to the motor when I landed.

Ed
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Old 12-03-2009, 06:37 PM
  #324
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Default RE: Parkzone NEW BRUSHLESS (YES!!!) P-51 Mustang RTF and BNF

Ed, the effort to deal with the issues in your post has brought about my greatest P-51 EUREKA MOMENT!

Center of Gravity (CG) on various airplanes has been a subject of intense study for literally years for me, finally, I THINK I'VE GOT IT!

Using the GUNFIGHTER, PZ Spitfire, and the PZ 109, CG location, elevator trim, and prop thrust line have all finally come together, EUREKA!

Okay, having fine tuned and flown the above mentioned fighters to get a real "feel" for their unique characteristics (back when I flew control-line aircraft where you can actually literally feel the airplane flying, I used to spoof the notion of "feeling" an R/C plane), here is what I discovered:

The P-51 has the shortest distance between wing and tail (tail moment) of the three planes and requires the CG to be the furtherest forward of the three fighters. In my case the CG is a full 1/8 inch ahead of what the instruction sheet recommends. Comfortable, "just above stalling speed trim" requires noticeable up elevator trim. Higher speeds requires more down trim to fly level. Yes you can move the batteries to adjust CG.

Manufactures sometimes add some prop down thrust to help stabilize and possibly minimize trim requirements throughout the speed envelope. I actually added a little up prop thrust trim in a vain attempt to "tame" the plane in my quest for better vertical maneuvering performance. It is annoying, but when I nose straight down for a noisy dead stick dive, I am forced to keep adding down elevator control until the speed stabilizes. Hey, its a high strung thoroughbred fighter, "whadoyou" expect?

I would add some "up trim" on your elevator until your P-51 will maintain level flight at your preferred cruising speed.

Next is the Spitfire, tail distance from the wing is greater and the CG can be safely located a little further back. The full scale Spitfire is generally shown with the CG located ahead of the quarter chord of the wing (center of pressure). However, the model instruction sheet suggests the CG should be BEHIND the quarter chord of the Spit wing very much like what is optimal on my large tail, long tail moment arm motor powered gliders. Old time free flight flyers know about this condition that in some cases literally have a lifting horizontal stab, it just lifts less than the main wing.

We finally figured out the changing trim with speed phenomena in our discussions a few months ago on the Spitfire thread.

Of the three, the Messerschmitt with its long tail moment and maybe also with the cleaner air for its raised stab is noticeably smoother when optimally trimmed, in my subjective opinion.

I opened up the exit hole on the bottom of the P-51 some during the "dead wood removal" process used to eliminate unnecessary material from the fuselage. I also carefully balanced the prop and added "super lube" to the motor. I don't use full throttle very much either - only when I need to fly straight up - battery is usually only warm after flight.

Denver, if you cruise around in the thermals at minimum power you might be able to get 20 minutes or more. "Normally" 10 minutes is a more practical maximum time. To promote battery life 5-7.5 minutes per flight is a good safe goal to shoot for with only occasional maximum flight time running. Let us know how you come out.

In the meantime, beware of the Hun in the sun.

madwebtvscientist [sm=lol.gif]
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Old 12-03-2009, 08:23 PM
  #325
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Default RE: Parkzone NEW BRUSHLESS (YES!!!) P-51 Mustang RTF and BNF

mad web tv scientist:

Thanks for your reply. The plane flies fine at my preferred power level, which is full throttle from takeoff until the landing approach. With the plane trimmed for level flight at full throttle there is no up elevator trim needed - that is the elevator is level with the horizontal stabilizer.

I fly all my warbirds full throttle like this - I have done this for the 20 years I have flown them.

I like this mustang because it flies well (for a foam airplane) at full speed, and because it flies reasonably fast it is not affected as much by the wind as other foam electrics I have flown.

But it seems to need a fair amount of speed so it can be flaired just before touchdown, to minimize the tendency to stall just before touchdown. This normally is a nose heavy indication - not real heavy there but somewhat. So I wondered if anyone else had shifted their cg so its on the prop end of the ovals and how the plane landed with it there. I would be surprised if it changed the full throttle flight trim much from the way this plane flies now.

Thanks again

Ed
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