mad web tv scientist

Ed, its great to be of service.

Dave, I feel bad about not emphasizing the important value of the motor and ESC I used in my Sopwith Camel.
IRRESISTIBLE SOPWITH CAMEL (don't even think about trying to resist!)
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_8458849/tm.htm

The weight of the 450 motor and size of the 18 Amp ESC makes it very practical to locate the CG virtually spot on. Adequate fine tune adjustments can be made with small batteries inside the battery bay. 1000 mAh 3 cell 15c batteries work great as do slightly larger and smaller batteries.

I am open to suggestions about how we might help other Camel drivers avoid the CG problems you have experienced. A new thread with an appropriate attention catching title might be the way to go.

I thank you and future Camel enthusiasts will surely thank you as well.

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bigdog5332

hey i was wondering if i should go and find a spinner that would go on my p-51 wth the 35-35a...currently i am running the 9x4.5e and i think i would be able to get on to fit i just need to know what size to put on it

chetterb

I received a P51D for Christmas and took it to the field today (12/26). It was almost a real boxing day. on 2 sepreate flights, around 4.5 minutes in, the plane acted like it lost all signal. 1st one was on a spilt S after going inverted and it just spiraled out of control until 50 feet or so from the deck and I regained control. Landed immediately, did the bind thing again and recharged the battery. On the 2nd flight, I was climbing about 45 degrees and a couple hundred feet off the deck and it just kind of fell out of the sky. Again, after some fall it recovered. Also noticed on that flight during a banking right had turn that it flattened out and started to shut down. All indications that the fail safe kicked in while rebooting the AR500. The only thin I can figure is the AR500 which are usually rock solid. Any ideas?

Dr_Bojangles

Either replace that stock E-Flite ESC with a higher amp ESC (30-amp) or splice in a 10-amp BEC.

My similar problems went away when I switched to a higher amp Castle Creation ESC.

http://search.horizonhobby.com/index.jsp?sid=125D066857A5&Ne=5000&Ntt=CSE&N=5849& Ns=p_sellingprice|0

Heironymous

chetterb posted: (abridged)

........On the 2nd flight, I was climbing about 45 degrees and a couple hundred feet off the deck and it just kind of fell out of the sky. Again, after some fall it recovered.....

Dr_Bojangles replied:

Either replace that stock E-Flite ESC with a higher amp ESC (30-amp) or splice in a 10-amp BEC.

My similar problems went away when I switched to a higher amp Castle Creation ESC.

************************************************** ********

I had a similar problem back in the summer with my P51 locking up in the air. I agree with Dr_Bojangles' recommendation: I suspect that the combined heat from the under-rated 18A speed and overloaded BEC causes the 5V BEC supply to the Rx and servos to shut down momentarily. One further suggestion for all P51 owners. I suggest you lubricate your pushrods with silicon spray.

When I recently found time to repair my first P51 ( thanks to Horizon Hobby for their excellent support under warranty) I discovered that both the elevator and rudder pushrods had locked up and it took a considerable effort to break them free. No, they were unmodified and in an "as purchased" condition, and I had not used any CA glue or anything of that nature anywhere near them. Now I know that several months ago when I installed a rudder servo both push-rods were moving freely, and I am at a loss to explain why they bound up, but I suspect silicon spray will prevent a recurrence. Possibly this tendency for the push rods to bind over time (if it is common to other P51's) has contributed to a BEC current overload and shutdown.

Has anyone else noticed this effect?

Rod (in Ottawa)

chetterb

What kind of flight times is anyone getting with the stock 1300 3S battery? I ran it static in the hangar and the ESC is kicking out around 4.5 to 5 minutes. That's when I encountered the 'problems' both flights. It's such a dog that I ran it almost full throttle both flights that I did and encountered the problems.

mad web tv scientist

chetterb, sorry to learn about your GUNFIGHTER problems. You might try contacting Horizon Service Center and explaining your symptoms to them.

In the meantime post # 323 explains my experience with the stock LiPos using full throttle only sparingly such as in vertical maneuvers, outside loops, knife edge flight, etc., where extra power can provide a degree of comforting margin.

Hope this helps.


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chetterb

Good stuff indeed mad scientist. I have a 2200 mAh battery from ParkZone but weighs about 1.2 oz. more than the stock one. The Gunfighter is nose heavy, so I could use that to balance if I dig out some foam from the fusalage, but thinking I might have to reinforce it with some carbon. The added servo and push rod for the rudder might help the balance also. I've read in some of the posts that the ESC might need upgraded due ot he slight extra weight, donno yet.

Viragored

FWIW, I'm flying my P'n'P Gunfighter stock except for the battery. I am using Hyperion 1600mA, 3S, 25C batteries and limiting my flights to ten minutes. The model has now spent several hours in the air (maybe 10?) with never a hitch of any sort and the CoG is spot on. (Futaba 2.4gHz radio installed).

Re-charge time at 1C is typically 30 - 45 minutes, so I guess I am using half to three quarters of the available battery capacity in each flight which is fine by me as I don't want the LiPos to hit rock bottom voltage at any time. Normally the battery is only slightly warm when I take it out after a flight so must be delivering the power needed quite comfortably. I haven't checked the speed controller to see how warm it gets, but maybe will next time I'm out. Once in a while I'll use an older 1500 or 1700 20C battery, and I notice they both are much warmer than the Hyperion, I think the climb rate is slower too, but recharge time is similar after a ten minute flight. And I've not had any hitches with those batteries either.

Here's a link to my local guy's web site, where I got my batteries from (prices in kiwi $) [link]https://foamworks.24secure.com/product_info.php?cPath=37_77&products_id=701&osCsid=e58cb1045aece07ebed3235847e8d8aa[/link]

Cheers, Dave

mad web tv scientist

chetterb, thank you Sir. They say it's always the one that you don't see that gets you. Your earlier post slipped in on my six totally unnoticed, no doubt compliments of my target fixation on so many other planes. Once I saw that post it was already too late.

So, I should have referred you to post # 162 on our GUNFIGHTER thread that could be useful in solving radio problems. I am currently enjoying great RF security with my two (2) new DX5e transmitters that bind and stay bound very well with all ten (10) of my SPEKTRUM equipped planes. My original stock Corsair transmitter is being used for spare parts. I managed to knock the flap switch off a new DX5e so I simply used the switch from my "problem DX5e" to fix my proven good DX5e. I also located the switch to a better location close to the antenna to minimize the danger from my bumbling behavior.

Another matter of interest - I just read what seems to be a very logical statement about center of gravity location in the latest issue of Model Aviation magazine. Lighter wing loading allows a further aft CG. I really should have figured this out myself. Seems so simple, makes perfect since to me now after years of wondering about the phenomena. Oh well, live and learn, just wish it wouldn't take so long to learn!

Happy flying and new Year!

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chetterb

This might be an old post so pardon my ignorance. I see that you've put a APC type prop on oneof the gunfighters. Any noticable difference?
Also curious, what flight times are yo ugetting with the stock battery. I use a 22 mAh by Parkzone and can only stretch 7 to 8 minutes.

-pkh-

My Feedback: (2)

The stock prop absolutely sucks IMO. Way too much flex. Junk the stock prop and get an APC or MAS prop. The APC is a much more efficient prop, and you can get more speed for a given amp draw. The MAS props look more scale, and are easier to fit into the spinner, but they aren't as efficient and provide more drag or "air-braking" when you throttle down. I've got an APC 10x7e on one of my P51Ds, and an MAS 10x6e on the other. The APC Mustang is noticeably faster than the MAS Mustang.

I try to limit full throttle bursts, and keep it down to an average of 3/4 throttle for the flight. I set my timer for 5mins with a 1300mAh pack, and 8mins with a 2200mAh pack. I typically have about 1/4-1/3 of my batt capacity left at the end of the flight.

Viragored

Do you find the APC props liable to break on landing? I have APC props on two other models and they sometimes don't survive a nose-over on the grass, depending on where the blade is positioned at the time. The PZ prop seems to be flexible enough to take almost anything!

-pkh-

My Feedback: (2)

I have yet to break a prop on my P51D, APC or MAS.

If you find yourself breaking props, some more practice and/or a smoother field will help. I've had lots of experience belly landing nitro and electric planes, and have gotten over most of my "rough landing" phase with them. The field I fly at is tightly mowed and relatively smooth. If you fly on a clumpy field, you'll certainly have more prop breakage problems. The MAS props are more forgiving than APC with prop strikes, and as you say, the PZ will take even more abuse. I just don't like the flexing and vibrating of the PZ props.

Use whatever works best for you. It's just a trade-off between performance and durability.

Viragored

If I knew how to invoice them, I'd be sending bills to the rabbits for the props broken on otherwise perfectly good landings that tripped up over an unseen hole on the strip

Dr_Bojangles

Viragored

Chuckle, chuckle, chuckle .... BANG

Viragored

OK - it's finally happened, one crashed Mustang Gunfighter. I shouldn't have been inverted that low, I know....

Anway, can someone tell me if the motor is showing signs of crash damage? It's the first time I've had the cowl off, and I see that the motor can and shaft are not perpendicular to the face of the motor mount. I hope the picture will make clear what I'm seeing - the picture is looking down vertically on the front of the model. The motor shaft is more or less in line with the fuselage, and does not have the side thrust I would have expected.

Thanks for any help!
Dave

Viragored

OK - I answered my own question.

When I had re-assembled the parts of the cowl, I could see that the motor shaft was not in the centre any more. I took all the motor mountings apart and discovered that the mounting plate at the back of the motor is a plastic moulding, which had a couple of cracks in it, allowing the motor to point off line. The motor shaft itself appears straight and spins freely. I've dribbled a little bit of CA into the cracks, hit it with kicker and hope the seepage onto the part of the motor that is static will hold everything straight. If not, I reckon it'll be time for a motor and ESC upgrade. The firewall and matching nylon (?) mounting plate (which screws to the repaired motor plate) both seemed to be fine after the crash.

Now I just need the new prop and spinner to arrive and we'll be flying again!!

Cheers, Dave

mad web tv scientist

THE GUNFIGHTER IS THE GREATEST!

Today's fighter sweep mission was to simply put up one fun demonstrator mission with the P-51. The rest of the day was to have been devoted to Messerschmitt take off, landing with flaps, etc., it crashed and "burned" the ESC and maybe more. I haven't had the stomach to check anything else out yet. So, lets enjoy the pure pleasure Mustang and forget all about evil axis aircraft.

Today has turned me into not only a fair weather flyer but also a dry fair weather flyer. Had to clean mud out of the air scoop after its first landing, made me thankful that I had left the belly landing 109 home. It really scoops good compared to the Stallion.

It was a little surprising to find that the 51 was a little out of trim on its first flight since the last time I flew it. After getting it trimmed up with a few beeps on the transmitter it was such a great pure pleasure to fly it around close enough to see its colors and shapes easily in the mild weather. A funny thing about the DX5e used today - there are so many sharpie notes about switch positions I couldn't tell how to set up for this P-51! I am looking forward to owning a DX7. My dumbness almost cost me a plane today. I'll discuss that later if I can get over the pain.

The last time I tried to "cut and paste" post from my "Write e-mail to RCU," the "web gods" wouldn't allow it. Hopefully, they have mellowed out by now and this message will post okay. I am not getting any of those silly pop ups today that were so annoying recently so maybe I am on a roll.

Back to Mustang fun, I finally got the best approach to a maximum performance take off fun performance down pat. The secret is to fly as has already been mentioned on this thread. After a good launch, pull up easily into a 60-80 degree climb and with care a very impressive climb can be flown. I would still like to get good enough to fly straight up rolling, stopping, and continue rolling in the same direction by reversing ailerons in a tail slide with a fighter.

After the last flight of the day, landing well away from myself in an area I had not inspected, shock suddenly shook me. What if it had landed in an unseen pool of water like the 109 had done earlier in the day? I splashed across the thoroughly rain saturated soccer fields hoping against hope that I wouldn't again be seeing any terrifying smoke!

Fortunately, I was saved from my foolhardiness. I quickly pulled off the hatch and unplugged the battery. When the plane was picked up and tipped nose down all of the excess water drained out of the plane.
No fire this time!

After some not so neat torque influenced launches today I have finally decided to follow the instruction book and take a few steps during the launch. Yeah, I know we thought we had it all figured out last summer. Reality has a way of correcting less than perfect techniques!

FLY AND FIGHT!

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Viragored

Water + ESC = Smoke.....

Electronics don't seem to work the same after you let the smoke out of them, eh?

mad web tv scientist

[8D] G'day Dave,

Glad to see you still enjoying your P-51. I meant to share your pain about your crash but my own anguish sort of drowned out my sympathy capacity. I will try to do better in the future.

Since it looks like I can still get away with posting on this thread, I'll try to say a little here and do a little better later elsewhere.
Fortunately, only the Me's ESC was destroyed. It is now combat ready to hunt Mustangs.

If it is not practical to prevent a dangerous amount of water from being scooped up by the Mustang, my current plan is to use skid equipped, "souped up" motor powered gliders in wet field flying conditions. I don't think it is practical to wait for dry conditions to fly in the "Beaver state."

I MUST FLY COME WET OR SHINE!

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mad web tv scientist

G'Day Dave,

Hope you are able to get your GUNFIGHTER back up in your summer skies. I peak charged some batteries earlier this week and was planning to wait until after I put in another flying session before posting anything. Weather and/or circumstances have not cooperated.

I think I have solved my "water landing" problems with the 51. In cool wet weather with my polite flying style I think it will be practical to enjoy adequate cooling with only the airflow through the spinner openings. I will pull the clear packing tape off the bottom nose air scoop in drier landing conditions.

Tried to take two steps on my latest launch. Something went wrong, almost crashed. I have been practicing a coordinated single step with hand launch that should work well, we'll see.

It was a pleasant surprise to find after flying fifteen minutes with an 1800mAh battery that the voltage was only down to 11.1 volts. Normally with that particular battery I keep the flying time around ten minutes or less so as not to reduce its life span. From now on I will feel comfortable running it 10 - 15 minutes except under severe conditions.

Keep 'em flying.

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chetterb

Hello everyone. I'm running 2200 zippys and safely getting around 12 minutes on a pack and that's with a lot of full throttle - grab your hat flying. Great verticle and split S manuevers. I'm happy with that and the batteries are barley warm.
Mad, it's been absolutely great here in WA near the Cascades. We've got more flying the past 4 weeks than most regular spring months. We'll probably pay for that soon....... I hope conditions get better for you soon.
Hand launching the Gunfighter has been a breeze. Just a right handed toss, ever so slightly at an upward angle and it's away sharply with plenty of time to get on the sticks.
Anyway, good luck all, I'm having a blast burning holes in the not so winter like skys.

Viragored

G'day Mad, and it is a beaut day here. Temp is nudging 30C, the sky is blue, the breeze is coming in off the South Pacific ... but then it is mid summer :-) I had the Gunfighter out this morning and really enjoyed it, going through seven battery charges. I'm slowly getting the hang of inverted flying, but only when there's plenty of height in the bank!

Your idea to block off the bottom scoop sounds good, but you'll surely make the first flight a short gentle one, and check that the battery and speed controller aren't getting too hot? Now that our temperatures are up, I'm finding the batteries are getting warmer than they did in spring, but I am also probably flying it a bit harder than I was.

When launching, I'm finding that I can sort of feel when the wind over my face will be enough to produce lift from the wing and control from the ailerons. I don't run any more after that, and it's usually only two steps when there's a bit of a breeze. In a stronger wind I don't run at all, as the model is eager to fly without it, just a gentle throw at the correct angle is all that's needed. It's all a bit hard to describe as it's more a feeling than anything scientific, except maybe the model does feel a little lighter in the hand and ready to go up. I've finally remembered to post a picture of my hand holding the model at the launch angle, ready for flight. Did I mention my hands are very small, so I can't grip anything much further apart than shown in the photo?

Enjoy some good weather when you get it [8D]

Dave