-pkh-

My Feedback: (2)

3S 2200mAh packs are the only ones I fly in my Mustangs. If you look towards the beginning of this thread, you'll see a post with photos of the foam you need to trim out to get the larger packs to fit. You also need to space the pack about 1/4" back to help balance it out.

oregonflyguy58

yeah it really stunk but I ordered another fusage and wing today and just going to transfer the motor and electronics over and do some beefing up on use that carbon you gave me then back to the wild blue wander

mad web tv scientist

zsultan, you aroused my curiosity. So, yesterday I flew the GUNFIGHTER with the same 2200mAh battery that provided my wing mounted cannons, Fritz modified tail wheel Gustav with a convincing 21.5 minute flight. Due to the turbulent 15 MPH wind conditions and my insistence on performing all of my favorite maneuvers first before flying relaxing lazy eight and circle type training maneuvers, I only got 21 minutes with the P-51. It was interesting to notice that tree induced turbulence was not noticeable above about 400 ft altitude. Below that you would have thought that I was deliberately trying to prove Dave right again (see past posts) about his spot on analysis. My "landing" (?) even vindicated his suggestion - actually knocked the canopy cover off - thanks to carbon fiber I didn't break the fuselage again.

Okay, both the second and third flights were flown using the 800mAh 25C 3 cell batteries. I was easily able to get all of my favorite maneuvers in and still have half of the batteries' charge left. There was no unnerving tip or otherwise stalling as I noticed with the big battery in turbulent air.

I plan to save all of my smaller batteries including the stock battery for use on long secret GUNFIGHTER escort missions, and WWI flying machines. I will try to use only the larger batteries 1500-2200mAh on WWII fighters in my current combat sector. If I manage to wear the biggies out, 1000-1500mAh at 20C plus will
be purchased to replace them.

flyguy, glad to see you hanging in there, hope the carbon fiber tow will help.

I like light now more than ever!

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Viragored

The original stock motor has finally been declared beyond repair. I'm putting some photos with this so you can see the cracks in the (IMHO) cheap and nasty plastic plate that forms a structural part of the stock motor in the Gunfighter.

I happened to have a Turnigy 2836/1200 brushless outrunner motor on the shelf, which is the same as I have in my hot-rod HobbyZone Super Cub, so decided to try making a mount for it. This job would be much easier if the Turnigy motor mounted at the rear, as the original PZ does, but the mounting screws for the Turnigy are on the front. So I made a mount out of two pieces of light ply and some dowel spacers, stuck together with 6-minute epoxy. Hopefully the photos will show you how it was done. Please excuse the scruffy looking front plate - I pasted my paper drawing to the wood to cut it out and couldn't be bothered to take it off It's not visible now the cowl is back on.

I've pinched the Turnigy Plush 40A ESC from the hot-rod HZS Super Cub to power the motor. A firm push slid it into the slot the stock ESC sits in, and there looks to be enough air flow over it. At least, I hope there is! I know the current draw is going to be way beyond what the 18A stock ESC could deal with.

My Wattmeter tells me the peak current draw with three different props, static on the bench, fresh battery and five seconds at full throttle was as follows:
[ul][*] 1. Stock PZ 9 x 6 = 45A[*] 2. APC 9 x 6 = 36A [*] 3. APC 9 x 4.5 = 30A
[/ul]

I think the motor might be a bit small for this model, as even 30A seems a lot for the small windings in the can to handle. After take-off, I expect most of the flying with this motor to be at half throttle or less, if the Super Cub is anything to go by, so I'm hoping to get away with it. If the motor does go up in smoke, at least it was only $12US! There's enough room to put a bigger motor up the front, and if I were shopping for one, I'd be sure to buy a motor with the mounting plate at the back

With one of my regular 1600mAh batteries in place, the CoG has crept back just a tad, but I don't think it's enough to worry about. The tail is only about 5 degrees off horizontal when the wing is balanced on the CoG marks.

We'll see how it goes once the equinoctial gales have settled down and I can get out and fly again [8D]

I'll post details of how the test flights went.....

Dave

Viragored

The Gunfighter flew nicely today in pretty gusty and strong winds, powered by the little Turnigy 2836 / 1200 motor. There's plenty of power, the climb rate is great but the batteries did get hot - much hotter than they did with the stock motor. That's with an APC 9 x 4.5 prop.

Next will be to buy a bigger motor, a Turnigy 3536 / 1300, and increase the air flow round the battery as much as I sensibly can. And now that I've started surgery on the Gunfighter, I may decide to alter the battery bay to hold bigger batteries than the Hyperion 1600 mAh/25C ones that I'm currently using.

Oh yes, the spinner front spat off and rolled a very long way as soon as I started the motor for the first launch! A new spinner with cap held by screws will also be in the order....

My order from Hobby King in Hong Kong contains several back-order items so it could be a while before I get the bigger motor installed.

Dave

mad web tv scientist

G'day Dave, I enjoy your technology discussions. I suspect you have to deal with a lot of wind a lot of the time, right? A "little dab" of "tack glue" holds that spinner cap on the P-51 beautifully and is still removable when necessary - just an idea to use with your powerful equipment that might help. I really hated it when that cap kept flying off during my vertical dead stick dives that are the opening act of my air shows.

The "garden of Eden like" weather we are so blessed with so much of the time here in the Willamette valley provides a lot of those wonderfully mild days that makes my lighter "close to stock warbirds" perfect for my purposes. So perfect in fact that I am buying a back up GUNFIGHTER to enjoy on my more "risk free" sorties. Its main mission will be to beautify the entertainment center in the front room of my house a lot like my fangs equipped "Fritz modified" PZ 109 does now on my wooden TV table next to my recliner. Yes, I know its original mission was to "fly garage CAP," but there is no way that I could possibly now be deprived from spinning that menacing black three bladed prop spiral decorated spinner when I get up and settle down for morning coffee!

The Spitfire thread tells the sad story of what happened to my original 51. Life without a ready to scramble "minute man GUNFIGHTER is unbearable! I'm sure any bona fide fighter enthusiast can understand my pain and absolute need for combat fighter plane back up!

Over and out.



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mad web tv scientist

Hey Flyguy, six batteries are peak charged and two (2) GUNFIGHTERS need to be flown in the upcoming good weather we are supposed to have this week. Please let me know your plans.

The new GUNFIGHTER has some interesting differences from the original. I really like the lighter weight. It is lighter than the original version even when loaded with the 2200mAh battery as opposed to the the original version using the 800mAh battery. The spinner cap seems tight enough to stay on without the need of any extra help, and like the stock PZ Spitfire with its slightly canted horizontal stab I expect little rudder/aileron trim will be needed to counter torque. Its light weight (lighter than even my slightly modified Spit) makes it the ideal fighter model promoting plane.

One possible problem for newbies was the way the ESC had its motor wire leads crammed in the ESC space so tightly that it seemed like little cooling air could flow around it. Another possible problem that might be implied by Wolf's disaster reported on another thread, is that the higher G forces allowed by the lighter wing loading might require more reinforcement if the plane is intended for maximum "3D" (?) maneuvers. Not a problem for us mostly "scale maneuvering" fans.

The original mission of the new GUNFIGHTER will be updated at least for the present segment of the war. On those beautiful calm days its light weight will make the slower, smoother, almost "motor powered glider" performances irresistible.

The situation could become so dire that flying the original GUNFIGHTER could result in the kind of near suicidal maneuvering that could spell its untimely demise. The new confidence to push the limits of the war weary P-51 will no doubt be influenced at least subconsciously by the desire to own another light P-51. It would, of course, be too extravagant for me to own three GUNFIGHTERS. So, for conscience sake it would be necessary to "accidentally" destroy one. For sure I will be practicing flying the "war weary" P-51 with less stress and more boldness. Maybe my aerobatics competence will accelerate under such current combat conditions. There may very well be yet another new GUNFIGHTER in my future sooner rather that later if I don't watch out.

KEEP YOUR POWDER DRY!

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BEAUTIFUL GUNFIGHTERS

Today's test flights went off without a hitch. Both the repaired GUNFIGHTER and the bran spanking new one at three (3) ounces lighter than the "war weary" one flew virtually identically. Interestingly, neither airplane required any in-flight or other trim changes to fly in ideal trim condition.

With the transmitter and both airplane receivers on I adjusted the new one just like the old one and it was a delightful surprise that in spite of weight differences and possible "warp differences" the two planes seamed to perform virtually identically.

As expected, the lighter new P-51 did perform flawlessly in the "maximum performance climb" maneuver without the slight stalling tendency while using the big 2200mAh battery that I noticed was the case with the heavier ship in earlier tests. In every other way performance seemed virtually equal. The outside loops with the big battery installed seemed unusually easy to fly, so much so, that I couldn't resist flying several consecutive outside loops, one right after another until the fearful thought of what happened to that recent 3-D flyer might happen to my new Mustang also. This caused me to break off.

This is a historic first for me in R/C - perfectly flying plane from the very first flight. Its mission will be to act only as a back up for my war weary P-51 while beautifying my living room entertainment center. I hope I never actually need to fly it again.

Ran an endurance test with the small 800mAh 3 cell 25c battery in the new ship. Launch was at just above center throttle stick position, climbed to "motor powered glider altitude" and dropped the stick to approximately center position. The minimum cruise speed flight lasted 10 minutes 44 seconds.

Well, I hope other Mustang enthusiasts are or will be having fun out there. The weather is trying to get better. I only got a few drops of rain on me today.

As a very practical size model of the "greatest fighter of all time," the GUNFIGHTER with its own great performance is surely destined to help provide the kind of sustainable joy and enthusiasm to help make modeling what it ought to be. At 18 ounces it is my absolutely ultimate "socially responsible" Park Flyer Fighter modeling promoting teaching aid, it is great to have back up for it. I don't ever intend to ever be without at least two GUNFIGHTERS in my flying fighter armada museum.

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ADDAX

Hi all,

I'm fairly new to the RCaircraft hobby, but my wife bought me a Gunfighter for my birthday a while back and since then I've been all over it.Not wanting to destroy the P-51 for lack of experience, Icut my chops on a simulator and a homebuilt foam pilon racer I got off of a buddy.

I've had the P-51 outa little over ahalf dozen times now with no major incedents except for a horrendous torque roll launch crash that broke the fuselage in two just in from of the wingline. Fortunately, some gorilla glue and silver paint later you'd never know the difference.

I had some of the same nose cone popping issues that have been discussed earlier in the thread... one time it popped off during a launch climb and got chopped in two by the prop - also taking a chunk of the end of the prop with it.

My local hobby shop didn't have stock on the standard parkzone spinners, so I went for the quick fix and picked up a more solid 2 screw 2 1/2 inch yellow generic spinner.

I've flown it a few times with the new spinner and it handles fairly well, but after reading a bit more about properly balancing a plane on these forums Irechecked and realized the the CG is now in from of the wingline. I've got the battery as far back as I can push it without carving out space inside the body.

Now I'm thinking that what I feel is acceptable handling could actually be improved significantly.

I'm considering digging out some foam so that I can swap the resting positions of the RXand the battery. With a rough test, this alone puts the CG almostas far back asthe manufacturer's recommended location (about 1 inck back from the leading edge).

What I've read about balancing in general and the risks of flying a plane that's tailheavy make me nervous about doing this though.

I'm curious about other's experiences with various CG positions on the Gunfighter...

Thanks in advance for the advice.

Heironymous

You mention using a simulator but did not say which one. If it happens to be RealFlight you could try moving the CG on the simulation of the P51 and get a feel for what effect moving the CG has. I have found that the Realflight simulation of several models is quite similar to actually flying the corresponding model.

Rod in Ottawa

ADDAX

...not a half bad suggestion.

Ihave the Phoenix simulator however, so unfortunately there is currently no PZ P-51, though they do have the Trojan and the Corsair.

I'll see about fiddling with the CG settings on those two anyway. It still might give me more of an idea what to expect.

Has anyone else been messing with the CGon the P-51?

Thoughts?

Viragored

I've just put a big motor up the front of my Gunfighter. Previously the CoG was right on where it should be, as originally stock and after putting in a smaller Turnigy motor than the one that is now in there (see earlier posts if interested). I've had to move the battery back to get the CG near where it ought to be, so the strap now just goes over the battery enough to hold it in place.

The balance point now is about a quarter inch in front of the little moulded marks on the wing, so not too bad but the weight of the model has gone up. It flies pretty well, still whips round tight turns, but is inclined to drop onto the ground at landing rather sooner than I'm expecting it to - that could be the stall starting at a higher speed because of the extra weight coupled with the CG being further forward. Or it could just be the pilot needs more practice :-)

Dave

Viragored

Turnigy larger motor now in Gunfighter!

In case anyone is interested, I've now got a Turnigy 3536 1300 brushless outrunner (from Hobby City, Hong Kong) installed, sitting on a mount from "books and steam" eBay trader in USA. Installation was a breeze, and to let a bit of breeze through to cool the ESC and battery I've bored a tunnel through the fuse with the trusty soldering iron. The tunnel goes up at an angle from the 'scoop' at the bottom of the cowl to come out below the ESC.

Power draw on the bench using a fresh battery showing 12.4 volts was:
9 x 6 APC prop - 41 Amps peak
10 x 5 EMP prop - 41.8 Amps peak
10 x 6 EMP prop - 49.9 Amps peak

I'm flying the model with the APC 9 x 6 prop and find it has heaps of thrust for take off and cruises faster than flat-out stock ... at half throttle. Batteries are luke-warm on landing, ESC is stone cold and I guess the motor won't be any hotter than the battery but can't get a finger through the cowl to find out. It does drain the battery though - I'm limiting flights to 8 minutes and getting 1200 - 1400 mA back into a 1600 battery when I charge it.

I guess next step will be bigger batteries and some surgery with a knife to fit them in with the hatch on.

Cheers everyone - Dave

Heironymous

It sounds like your CG is still a little far forward for optimum performance. During the flight a bit of up elevator or trim makes the forward CG unoticeable, and for new pilots that is not a bad thing. It makes the plane a bit less sensitive in pitch. However, as you come in too land it sounds like just as you are trying to flare to slow down and land, the plane is dropping too soon, and you are landing a bit faster than you would like. That happens because the elevator becomes less effective as you slow down, and you are no longer able to compensate for the forward CG and still flare properly.

I suggest you try moving the CG rearwards in small increments until you find an optimal setting.

Rod in Ottawa

mad web tv scientist

ADDAX, welcome to the unique kind of joy and excitement that only a killer GUNFIGHTER can provide! I didn't realize how much I loved this airplane until my last near fatal crash. One more P-51 disaster and I will qualify as an enemy Ace.

The newest manifestation of 51 spinners look like they might be tight enough to not need the tack glue treatment that I have been using to keep that cap on, but just to feel secure I still add a drop of "tack glue" (thin CA) even to the new ones.

I really feel comfortable with the CG 1/8 inch ahead of what the instruction book recommends. This requires that the elevators be trimmed with a little up elevator.

Rod's sim idea seems ideal. I always recommend the flight sim approach to beginning R/Cers . It's really neat to be able to easily look up information on any airplane during a flying session. No, I learned with "motor powered gliders," but that was then and this is now.

ENJOY!

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grendel2000

Just wanted to check in and sing my praises of the GUNFIGHTER!

I'm new to aircraft RC but have messed with helis and cars before. I bought a micro PZ Mustang but became frustrated due to the near constant wind lately and the inability of the little guy to handle it. I ended up picking up the GUNFIGHTER a week ago.

First flight led to disaster. Got disoriented overhead and smashed into the ground separating the forward cowling/engine from about the front edge of the wing forward. NOT TO WORRY! CA GLUE IS HERE! A fair smidge of glue and two hours drying time and it was right back to the park! This time went better (probably due to some needed self-enforced caution this time around - hard to do when you're an idiot like me). All was well with the exception of a rough landing - landed toward myself and got confused as to left/right orientation. Managed to crack off a wingtip and re-separate the cowling - OOPS!

BACK TO THE GLUE SHED I SAY !

Copious amounts of CA later (as well as 6 sections of carbon fiber rod) and she's right as rain! BRILLIANT! Gotta love the repairability of these things!

Anyhow, I've got a good 8-10 flights in since and all is well. I've learned to apply the same rules to RC flying as I had to in the real thing: if you're not thinking AHEAD of the aircraft, you're BEHIND the aircraft and BAD THINGS are on the way. I now try to think ahead by a few maneuvers to plan what I'll need to do, and to make clear in my mind which direction will be which if the orientation is not what I''m used too. It seems to really be helping.

Good flying folks! Thanks for all the great info!

Viragored

Hi - well done for getting off to a "good" start!

A tip someone gave me to help with the disorientation when the model is coming towards you is to turn your back to it, look over your shoulder and your hands will feel that left is still left and right is still right. Worked for me till I got the hang of it....

Good luck, Dave

Heironymous

So what do you do when the models goes inverted and is coming towards you? Turn your back on it bend over and watch it from between your legs?

(Sorry I couln't resist!)


Rod in Ottawa

Viragored

No, that won't work at all - it's important to have well practiced handstand skills and nimble toes to work the transmitter in the situation you describe :-)

grendel2000

But that's my NORMAL flight position!

What? You guys are doing it differently???...

ADDAX

hey gang,

So based on your feedback about CG's I went ahead and made a few minor mod's to swap the battery and RX locations in the gunfighter. CG is prettymuch bang on the recommended location now.

I had it up for one battery's worth last night and she's definitely more responsive than the previous nose heavy setup.

What I'm finding now is that since it's so much more sensitive to pitch input I'm finding it harder to make a smooth landing approach.

What's the general consensus for coming in to land with this guy? 0 throttle Deadstick approach? What vertical angle do you start your approach at? Any other tips in general?

Thanks in advance...

Heironymous

One possible solution is to make use of dual rates. I usually set up so that my dual rate switches are away from me (or up) for max throw and towards me (or down) for reduced throw. You can fly with either setting depending on what type of flying you wish to perform (smooth and relaxed or aerobatics), but use reduced rate when you are coming in to land so that the model is just a little easier to control.

Are you using exponential settings I wonder? That invariably makes a big difference. Just be sure you set it round the right way so that you get reduced throw for small stick offsets. Don't laugh, but the first time I flew my Mustang I had accidentally set it round the wrong way on either the ailerons or elevator or perhaps both, I dont recall, and it was quite a handful. Subsequent flights were a delight after that experience!

I recommend you try the above before you resort to moving the CG forward again.

Rod in Ottawa

hamburgrd

My Feedback: (1)

I don't post too much but figured since I have been following this forum for a while I would share my latest upgrade to my Gunnfighter. The motor is from the PZ Messerschmitt Bf-109G. I did not have to mod anything. The motor just bolted on. The 12x8 prop accepted the spinner but the 12x12 will need a little grinding to the spinner to get it to fit.

3 cell 1300mah 30c
12x8: 19 amps 190 watts
12x12: 29 amps 280 watts

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eIfBBJ01BAw

-pkh-

My Feedback: (2)

My Gunfighter has 2100mAh 30C packs that are about 1/4" back from the stock batt location, so it is a little nose heavy. With this setup, it drops quickly when you kill the throttle. To land, I fly in at about 1/2 - 2/3 throttle, about 10' high, and right at the edge of the field I kill the throttle and dead stick land it. I pull enough elevator to keep it level as it descends, and try to flare up a little just before it touches down.

mad web tv scientist

[8D] grendel, welcome to what very well could become the greatest warbird thread of all time! Your aviation exploits (full scale, flying, and repairing) add priceless inspiration and information that compliments the already proven qualities of the GUNFIGHTER.

Today I just qualified as an enemy Ace by crashing my war weary GUNFIGHTER a fifth time. Four happened during landing attempts, three of these crashes were during attempts to fly over a very small area, one was during the landing after the maiden powered flight; and one happened due to sun angle, out of trim condition, and foolish full throttle during a disorientation experience.

The serious mistake I made in the beginning of my R/C career was my ill advised attempt to learn to fly my motor powered gliders in too small of a space. Crashing into all manner of things resulted in counterproductive emotional reactions to low altitude flight that have negatively affected me for years. Though there is evidence that my condition is
improving, still terror can sometimes inhibit rational thought and actions. Today was to have been liberation day from the fear of attempting to land on my new small landing area. Instead I broke my plane again. Fortunately, it is repairable. If I will just do what I know must be done this flying field can easily be mastered! All I have to do is master myself and that field is mine!

ADDAX, I plan to do a lot of landing practice to find out what it takes to spot land close enough to myself from a high enough altitude so as to avoid all the ground clutter surrounding my new little field. Zero power allows the prop to act as a speed brake, lagging back and fourth while approaching the landing spot can help you land shorter from a higher altitude.

I should have gone around again when I realized I was still too high and fast to hit the spot I was aiming for today. After crashing on my very first attempt on another small landing field near an apartment in Washington this week I finally wised up and did practice landing approaches before landing on several flights flown after repairs were made. Today however, I was confident the high grass was more than adequate, and besides that I didn't want to waste battery power that could be used for more confidence building landing practice. The problem was I forgot about the gravel covered area just beyond what I was able to see because of the high grass, and wouldn't you know that is where I hit the ground, FOOL!

Rod, love the fun y'all are having with veteran and new Mustang drivers alike!

DO WE GOT FUN OR WHAT!?

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