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  1. #401

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    RE: Parkzone NEW BRUSHLESS (YES!!!) P-51 Mustang RTF and BNF

    Thanks for the greetings MWTS!

    I've flown her a few more times (luckily without mishap - knock on wood!) and all seems well with a few minor issues:

    - In loops she seems to pull of to the left when going over the top.  This may be due to poor trim, wind, or possibly added weight to the right wingtip from the carbon fiber rods added after my crash (or all of the above).  I only used three sections of 4 inch length 1.5mm rod however, so that doesn't seem like much.  Perhaps I'll add an equal amount to the other side to help the balance.

    - I have no idea if my CG is correct.  I've just been stuffing the stock battery in till it seems secure (with the help of the crappy velcro loop that came with the bird).  Anyone care to suggest a good method to check CG?  Also, what "ovals" does the manual refer to when it discusses CG?

    - I moved the linkages in on the ailerons and set my exponential to 0% on my 2nd dual rate position to increase aileron responsiveness but she still seems sluggish doing aileron rolls.  Even with slight nose-up attitude entering the maneuver, she exits the roll nose down - seems like an awful lot of pitch loss for a simple maneuver.

    All things considered, what a JOY this things is.  Easy enough to fly for a newb like me so long as I'm thinking ahead, simple to repair, yet capable of extremely entertaining maneuvers and flight - all without having to worry about a crash due to its relatively low cost and ease of repair.

    GO PARKZONE!

  2. #402

    RE: Parkzone NEW BRUSHLESS (YES!!!) P-51 Mustang RTF and BNF


    ο»Ώ

    ORIGINAL: grendel2000

    Thanks for the greetings MWTS!

    I've flown her a few more times (luckily without mishap - knock on wood!) and all seems well with a few minor issues:

    - In loops she seems to pull of to the left when going over the top. This may be due to poor trim, wind, or possibly added weight to the right wingtip from the carbon fiber rods added after my crash (or all of the above). I only used three sections of 4 inch length 1.5mm rod however, so that doesn't seem like much. Perhaps I'll add an equal amount to the other side to help the balance.

    - I have no idea if my CG is correct. I've just been stuffing the stock battery in till it seems secure (with the help of the crappy velcro loop that came with the bird). Anyone care to suggest a good method to check CG? Also, what ''ovals'' does the manual refer to when it discusses CG?

    - I moved the linkages in on the ailerons and set my exponential to 0% on my 2nd dual rate position to increase aileron responsiveness but she still seems sluggish doing aileron rolls. Even with slight nose-up attitude entering the maneuver, she exits the roll nose down - seems like an awful lot of pitch loss for a simple maneuver.

    All things considered, what a JOY this things is. Easy enough to fly for a newb like me so long as I'm thinking ahead, simple to repair, yet capable of extremely entertaining maneuvers and flight - all without having to worry about a crash due to its relatively low cost and ease of repair.

    GO PARKZONE!
    grendel, you and the GUNFIGHTER continue to add evidence that the world's all time greatest fighter may very well be on its way to being honored by what may become the world's all time greatest RTF fighter!

    We are living in historic times. It is so great to experience the influence of a real pilot with the kind of unique realism that real aviation enthusiasts find so enjoyable. Your analysis of your 51 seems to be right on target.

    The recommended stock CG is measured from the wing leading edge just before the radius toward the fuselage/wing joint and is 2 3/4 inches back from that point. My CG is 1/8 inch ahead of that point on both the older 21 ounce GUNFIGHTER and the 18 ounce latest one. An easier point to point measurement can be made from the wings for and aft points. My nicely stable CG is 2 7/8 inches from the front wing/fusalage joint and 8 3/16 inches from the rear.

    I installed wire hooks for rubber bands to provide additional battery security.

    Both Mustangs require weight added to the right wing tips. Small wood screws are used to just barely make the right wing heavier. I sometimes adjust the battery plug to one side of the battery compartment or the other to "fine tune" the lateral CG. I don't know if it helps but both planes have a shim under the bottom of their motor mounts to locate the spinner more realistically in the center. As previously mentioned my newest 51 flew absolutely perfectly on its very first five maiden flights, using three different weight batteries ranging from 1.5 ounces to 5.5 ounces and required absolutely no trim changes the entire day! It blew my mind!


    Yes, I also experience victory rolls that could stand a little polish. I try to show off with two rolls at full throttle at about a 45 degree angle up after finishing any maneuver that doesn't include rolls.

    Keep us informed, we have a lot to enjoy here.

    madwebtvscientist [sm=cry_smile.gif] [sm=lol.gif]
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  3. #403
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    RE: Parkzone NEW BRUSHLESS (YES!!!) P-51 Mustang RTF and BNF

    does anyone think that the P51 is not that stable at less than half throttle? I guess I'm used the the flight characteristics of a 7lbs nitro powered model (Big Stik 60) with 1000 sq inches of wing area and a light wing loading. It seems these little foamies tend to get blown off course all the time. The other thing I've noticed is that she will go nose down at neutral elevator under half throttle, but then climb under full power. I have it balanced perfectly, if not a little tail heavy. Also, when I do a vertical climb, she wants to nose over to the left. I need to use full right elevator during the climb to keep it tracking straight. Lastly, the ailerons don't roll it as quickly as I thought it would. All that said, I just ordered 4 2200mah 3s lipos for her

  4. #404

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    RE: Parkzone NEW BRUSHLESS (YES!!!) P-51 Mustang RTF and BNF

    Hi DJH - I wonder if either your motor or wing alignment might be adrift? Mine flew nicely until it didn't.... I discovered the motor mount was damaged so the thrust line was wrong. New mount, new motor, and all is good again. If the wing alignment (angle of incidence, to be technical) is out, that could cause pitch variations at different speeds. I've another high-wing foam model that now has a pile of packing under the trailing edge, required because its rubber bands have deformed the wing, pushed the back end into the fuse and effectively altered the incidence. That one was a pig, shooting for the sky when the throttle was opened, but is now back to how it should be.

    I need to use full right elevator during the climb to keep it tracking straight.
    You said you need to use right elevator - is that right rudder, or right aileron? Unless of course you're about to patent a split elevator system

    Cheers, Dave
    \"They can all be repaired...\"

  5. #405
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    RE: Parkzone NEW BRUSHLESS (YES!!!) P-51 Mustang RTF and BNF

    Sorry, that's a typo. I meant right rudder. How can I tell if the wing alignment is out?

  6. #406

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    RE: Parkzone NEW BRUSHLESS (YES!!!) P-51 Mustang RTF and BNF

    At a guess, the incidence will be right unless some crash or hard landing damage has caused some free play or misalignment to creep in. I don't feel like I'm being very helpful by saying that it was probably right when it came out of the box ... but that's the best I can do :-) If it looks the same as it did new, it should be right.

    Do you have a programmable radio? With some of my models I've programmed a mix to couple the elevator to the throttle so that as the throttle increases, the elevator goes down a bit. The amount to be mixed in comes from good ol' trial and error! And it's important to test the effect of the programming on the bench before the model takes to the air - it's easy to make the mix do exactly the opposite of what is wanted. Sorry if that's old hat to you, but better safe than sorry.

    Good luck!
    Dave
    \"They can all be repaired...\"

  7. #407
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    RE: Parkzone NEW BRUSHLESS (YES!!!) P-51 Mustang RTF and BNF

    i do have a DX6i that can do some basic mixes. I may try that. It's not that big of deal. I just find myself having to feed a lot of up elevator when putzing around under 1/2 throttle. It's no where near as stable or linear in flight at any throttle as my glow powered Big Stik.

  8. #408

    RE: Parkzone NEW BRUSHLESS (YES!!!) P-51 Mustang RTF and BNF

    Denver, its neat to read observations and comparisons with the GUNFIGHTER from a big gas guy. Most of us can probably identify with at least some of the sensitivity you have identified.

    I still notice some sensitivity in my favorite maximum performance climb maneuver from launch, but by keeping the flight path a little less than vertical, reasonable control up to maximum altitude seems very practical. The ship(s) is/are trimmed with a little right rudder, a little right aileron and a little up elevator with the CG slightly forward. These trim settings allow equal tendencies to spiral either right or left when "unbalanced" at just above stall speed at around half throttle. The surprising thing to me was the extra weight needed on the right wing tip to prevent that left turning tendency under G loads.

    Given the thoroughbred nature of fighter planes they all tend to, one degree or another, to exhibit trim changes with speed changes. Col. Clarence E. "Bud" Anderson in his book "To Fly and Fight" discusses this phenomena in his famous dogfight with a 109. The challenge for us model Mustang drivers is to find an optimum trim condition we can live with. I am absolutely thrilled with the way my newest GUNFIGHTER flies. At this point I must blame myself if something doesn't go just right.

    Having just repaired my "war weary 51" I am happy to report that the CA "tack glue" on the spinner not only works to keep the cap on but the cap can also be removed without breaking anything. I wondered about that for quite some time - no problem.

    Gotta check out the newly repaired ship and test a newly modified 109.

    Tally Ho Chaps!


    madwebtvscientist [sm=cry_smile.gif] [sm=lol.gif]
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  9. #409

    RE: Parkzone NEW BRUSHLESS (YES!!!) P-51 Mustang RTF and BNF

    THREE FOR THREE

    Three different small field flying sites, three damage causing impacts to the GUNFIGHTER. Today's small flying field was a baseball field surrounded by tall trees, a tower and other dangers that combined to turn the P-51 flying part of the day into a less than fun experience.

    After repairing the broken stabilizer sustained on my first "landing," I finally settled down and made a number of launch and landings before deciding that discretion was the better part of valor. I found a bigger field so I could concentrate more on flying than on not crashing into something.

    I found out one thing I have been doing wrong on victory rolls. All I have to do to get very scale like victory rolls is to simply apply a little down elevator and that's all there is to it. The trick is to apply just enough down elevator which I am still working on.

    I've added carbon fiber reinforcement to the bolt area on both the fuselage and the wing as a little extra insurance on both 51s.

    madwebtvscientist [sm=cry_smile.gif] [sm=lol.gif]
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  10. #410

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    RE: Parkzone NEW BRUSHLESS (YES!!!) P-51 Mustang RTF and BNF

    Hello, can you guys give me the website on where to get
    some extra 3c Lipo's for our Parkzone P51 BL ?
    thanks....

    also, what is the least expensive AC charger I can get for these 3 cell LiPo's?

    is the new MRC charger doable?

    thanks....

    newb

  11. #411

    RE: Parkzone NEW BRUSHLESS (YES!!!) P-51 Mustang RTF and BNF

    rcla, below is a charger that seems to work very well. No doubt that MRC charger would work well but is way too expensive for me. I like the "cheapie" chargers that work fine. Places like RadenTech sell 3 Cell LiPos that work well. Almost any source sells good quality LiPos. I got some good ones from the same source where I ordered my Venom charger.

    I would have had this answer posted sooner but my "hacker" (see link for details) kept knocking me off the web. One of the enemy's vain tactics includes suppressing culturally relevant information like the value of fighters such as the P-51 for use as irresistible science/history teaching aides.
    ο»ΏFACEBOOK PROFILE web page
    http://community-2.webtv.net/RICHARD...OOKPROFILEweb/

    Venom LiPo Battery Balance Charger 2 Cell - 3 Cell with Power Supply
    http://www.rctoys.com/rc-toys-and-pa...ERS-POWER.html

    Enjoy and be sure to keep us informed about your adventures.

    madwebtvscientist [sm=cry_smile.gif] [sm=lol.gif]
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  12. #412
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    RE: Parkzone NEW BRUSHLESS (YES!!!) P-51 Mustang RTF and BNF

    can someone tell me how the prop adapter secures to the motor shaft? Is it held on simply by friction? Should you be able to simply pull the adapter on and off by hand?

  13. #413

    RE: Parkzone NEW BRUSHLESS (YES!!!) P-51 Mustang RTF and BNF

    Denver, yes, sometimes it might take a little tapping/prying to get off.

    Good luck,

    madwebtvscientist [sm=cry_smile.gif] [sm=lol.gif]
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  14. #414
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    RE: Parkzone NEW BRUSHLESS (YES!!!) P-51 Mustang RTF and BNF

    should it come off without much force? Actually, i think mine is broken. The prop and adapter won't stay on the motor shaft when I throttle up. The entire nose cone assembly, including prop adapter, goes flying off when I throttle up.

    Does this mean I need a new prop adapter or new motor shaft?

  15. #415

    RE: Parkzone NEW BRUSHLESS (YES!!!) P-51 Mustang RTF and BNF

    Okay, if you could provide a close up picture we might be able to figure out weather or not your adaptor can be usable. I have a hunch that your parts can be made to work if the parts show no visible damage. The parts must be clear of any oil in order to develop the vital friction needed for proper operation. Addition of very thin shim material like aluminum foil on the motor shaft might help provide the tolerance needed for the adapter to get a good grip when the prop is tightened with the prop nut.

    Let us know how you come out.

    madwebtvscientist [sm=cry_smile.gif] [sm=lol.gif]
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  16. #416
    DenverJayhawk's Avatar
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    RE: Parkzone NEW BRUSHLESS (YES!!!) P-51 Mustang RTF and BNF

    here are pics of the adapter and motor shaft. The adapter slides on and off the motor shaft pretty easily. So much so that when I throttle up, the prop adapter, prop, washer, nut, and nose cone go flying off.

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  17. #417

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    RE: Parkzone NEW BRUSHLESS (YES!!!) P-51 Mustang RTF and BNF

    That’s prop adapter you show is a collet prop adapter and it works just like the collet or chuck in a hand drill or lathe. It should NOT slip off and send parts flying. Someone is going to get hurt.

    Take that motor to your local hobby shop and get a new adapter or three. From the pics it looks like the collar is not being drawn down onto the collet completely. Is it possible you have mix-n-matched parts from different adapters?

    Check here for choices, but you need to know that is 4mm or 5mm. I’m pretty sure that the stock motor is 4mm.
    http://search.horizonhobby.com/index...adapter&N=5001


    On the way home, stop off at the auto parts store and get some a small packet of anti-seize. It’s usually sitting on the checkout counter and looks something like a packet of ketchup. We use it on aluminum engine blocks, manifolds, etc. to keep the threads from seizing [galling] while heating and cooling. Apply a lilttel to the threads, but DO NOT get it in the hole or on the motor shaft.

  18. #418
    DenverJayhawk's Avatar
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    RE: Parkzone NEW BRUSHLESS (YES!!!) P-51 Mustang RTF and BNF

    It is the stock adapter from the Parkzone that came with the model, so it should not be mix/matched parts. The problem is the collet does not have enough "bite" onto the motor shaft. It slips on and off easily.

    When you say apply the anti seize to the threads, to confirm you mean the threads on the adapter where the washer and nut hold the prop and not the collar or collet that goes on the motor shaft, right?

    Also, there's a small notch on the motor shaft. See the last picture. Is the prop adapter supposed to fit on the motor shaft in a special way that utilizes the small notch? I can't see anything special about the adapter that is supposed to align with the notch on the motor shaft when sliding it on.

    Would using a piece of aluminum foil as a shim on the motor shaft help the collet "bite" more onto the motor shaft as Mad Web suggested?

  19. #419
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    RE: Parkzone NEW BRUSHLESS (YES!!!) P-51 Mustang RTF and BNF

    That collet-type adapter requires you to torque down on the prop nut pretty well to get it to tighten onto the motor shaft. Sounds like you are not torquing down on the prop nut enough. Here's what you need to do:

    1) push the collet adapter onto the motor shaft as far as it will go
    2) put the prop, spinner (back portion of it), and prop washer onto the adapter shaft
    3) hand tighten the prop nut
    4) firmly grip the prop (careful not to cut your hand if it's sharp), and use a wrench to torque down the prop nut really well

    EDIT:

    BTW, the notch on the motor shaft does nothing for the collet type prop adapter. If you buy a set-screw type prop adapter, then that notch gives the set screw a nice flat surface to torque down onto.
    Paul - Helis: Two Raptor 50V2s, Venture 30CP, Blade CX2
    Planes: Twist 60, Tribute 36, Two PZ BL P51s, Two F27C Strykers

  20. #420

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    RE: Parkzone NEW BRUSHLESS (YES!!!) P-51 Mustang RTF and BNF


    ORIGINAL: DenverJayhawk

    It is the stock adapter from the Parkzone that came with the model, so it should not be mix/matched parts. The problem is the collet does not have enough "bite" onto the motor shaft. It slips on and off easily.

    When you say apply the anti seize to the threads, to confirm you mean the threads on the adapter where the washer and nut hold the prop and not the collar or collet that goes on the motor shaft, right?

    Also, there's a small notch on the motor shaft. See the last picture. Is the prop adapter supposed to fit on the motor shaft in a special way that utilizes the small notch? I can't see anything special about the adapter that is supposed to align with the notch on the motor shaft when sliding it on.

    Would using a piece of aluminum foil as a shim on the motor shaft help the collet "bite" more onto the motor shaft as Mad Web suggested?
    Use the anti-seize just on the threads where the washer and nut go. The small notch doesn't serve any purpose with the collet adapters. It's for other adapter types with a set screw.

    That ring that slides down over the collet has to be all the way down so it collapses (squeezes) the collet around the shaft.


  21. #421
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    RE: Parkzone NEW BRUSHLESS (YES!!!) P-51 Mustang RTF and BNF

    should the bottom of the collar (the side that faces the motor) and the collet be flush? In the pictures, you can see the collet protrudes just slightly past the collar so that it is not flush. I've tried pushing down on the collar with as much effort as i could apply and it still does not come flush together on that end. I'm assuming this is supposed to be that way?

  22. #422

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    RE: Parkzone NEW BRUSHLESS (YES!!!) P-51 Mustang RTF and BNF


    ORIGINAL: DenverJayhawk

    should the bottom of the collar (the side that faces the motor) and the collet be flush? In the pictures, you can see the collet protrudes just slightly past the collar so that it is not flush. I've tried pushing down on the collar with as much effort as i could apply and it still does not come flush together on that end. I'm assuming this is supposed to be that way?
    Yes – If you take the two apart and look at the inside of the collar, you’ll see that it’s tapered (like a funnel) to match the taper of the collet. In order to get the full effect of squeezing –equally around the shaft – that funnel should be drawn all the way down flush with the collet.

    As you said, and as seen in the picture, they do not sit flush. That’s way I asked if it’s possible that you may have pieces from two different adapters.

    Check inside the funnel and matching surface of the tapered collet to be sure there aren’t any burrs or nicks keeping them from mating snug.



  23. #423
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    RE: Parkzone NEW BRUSHLESS (YES!!!) P-51 Mustang RTF and BNF

    It's the prop nut torque/pressure that will push the collar down over the collet to compress and tighten it. I'm not sure you'd be able to put enough pressure on it by just pushing down on it by hand to see the compression.

    I'll have to look at mine when I get home to see if the collar is flush, high, or low on the collet when it's fully tightened down.

    You might want to take the collar off of the collet to be sure there's nothing inside the collet compression gaps (keeping it from compressing) and be sure the collar can slide up and down on the collet freely. I doubt either would be an issue, but it doesn't hurt to check.

    The torque of the prop nut should be able to push the collar down on the collet and completely close those compression gaps (four slits on the back). Whether it's flush, high or low on the collet doesn't really matter, as long as it can compress it to tighten it on the motor shaft. When it's actually on the shaft, it may not have to completely close these slits/gaps, but they should compress down enough to keep it from slipping on the motor shaft.
    Paul - Helis: Two Raptor 50V2s, Venture 30CP, Blade CX2
    Planes: Twist 60, Tribute 36, Two PZ BL P51s, Two F27C Strykers

  24. #424
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    RE: Parkzone NEW BRUSHLESS (YES!!!) P-51 Mustang RTF and BNF

    ORIGINAL: Dr_Bojangles


    ORIGINAL: DenverJayhawk

    should the bottom of the collar (the side that faces the motor) and the collet be flush? In the pictures, you can see the collet protrudes just slightly past the collar so that it is not flush. I've tried pushing down on the collar with as much effort as i could apply and it still does not come flush together on that end. I'm assuming this is supposed to be that way?
    Yes – If you take the two apart and look at the inside of the collar, you’ll see that it’s tapered (like a funnel) to match the taper of the collet.Β* In order to get the full effect of squeezing –equally around the shaft – that funnel should be drawn all the way down flush with the collet.

    As you said, and as seen in the picture, they do not sit flush.Β* That’s way I asked if it’s possible that you may have pieces from two different adapters.

    Check inside the funnel and matching surface of the tapered collet to be sure there aren’t any burrs or nicks keeping them from mating snug.
    I've checked the inside of the collar where the cone/funnel is that mates with the collet. There's no burrs or nicks keeping it from mating snug. I think it has to be how PKH said that the torque from the nut must be what seats the collet to the final position within the collar. I nearly pulled a muscle trying to exert enough force on it to get it flush. I think even with the nut fully torque tightly on, it won't be flush. The 2nd picture shows the collet still protruding slightly. This is after I really torqued the nut on. It does seem to be biting on to the shaft more snuggly as PKH suggested after I really tightened the nut.
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  25. #425

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    RE: Parkzone NEW BRUSHLESS (YES!!!) P-51 Mustang RTF and BNF


    ORIGINAL: DenverJayhawk

    ORIGINAL: Dr_Bojangles


    ORIGINAL: DenverJayhawk

    should the bottom of the collar (the side that faces the motor) and the collet be flush? In the pictures, you can see the collet protrudes just slightly past the collar so that it is not flush. I've tried pushing down on the collar with as much effort as i could apply and it still does not come flush together on that end. I'm assuming this is supposed to be that way?
    Yes – If you take the two apart and look at the inside of the collar, you’ll see that it’s tapered (like a funnel) to match the taper of the collet. In order to get the full effect of squeezing –equally around the shaft – that funnel should be drawn all the way down flush with the collet.

    As you said, and as seen in the picture, they do not sit flush. That’s way I asked if it’s possible that you may have pieces from two different adapters.

    Check inside the funnel and matching surface of the tapered collet to be sure there aren’t any burrs or nicks keeping them from mating snug.
    I've checked the inside of the collar where the cone/funnel is that mates with the collet. There's no burrs or nicks keeping it from mating snug. I think it has to be how PKH said that the torque from the nut must be what seats the collet to the final position within the collar. I nearly pulled a muscle trying to exert enough force on it to get it flush. I think even with the nut fully torque tightly on, it won't be flush. The 2nd picture shows the collet still protruding slightly. This is after I really torqued the nut on. It does seem to be biting on to the shaft more snuggly as PKH suggested after I really tightened the nut.
    Just be mindful of the chances it might still come off and stay away from the sides, top and front of the airplane/prop. If it does come off, it's going to the either side, up, down or front.



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