jwaterb

Right now, I'm in a situation where I can spend a little money (price range about $150), so I would like to get my feet wet with RC airplanes.

I have flown only a few times but have managed to land all of them safely, so I'm comfortable with a little better than a newbie plane, but I don't have one of my own yet.

Here's the deal:
I'm looking for an RC airplane that will be nice to me if I nose dive it (maybe something with the prop in the rear??) and won't cost very much at all, I'm not really looking for beauty here.

I need a transmitter, but I want to find a cheap one and still be able to use it on upgrades. This is the part I'm most inclined to spend a bit more money on. (i.e. 4 channel, and two nobs??) I'm a little confused which brands work with which recievers (not to mention why they all come with servos, they don't have anything to do with the radio do they?).

Something bundled together might be best for me, i.e. I have looked at the T Hawk, but it seems the transmitter is proprietary, and I want something I can use after an upgrade.

Any input on this would be much appreciated, and any sites that I can refer to for pricing would be very nice.
If anyone feels inclined to give me a price list of all the items I have to buy, that would also be very helpful.

-----

Mike Taylor

My Feedback: (1)

Welcome to R/C, J.

Dan, AKA "Hippo" (http://www.foamfly.com/customer/home.php) has a 'gallery' of planes, some have plans, and some plans for some cool planes made from BluCor or Fan-Fold Foam (which is an insullation material from many home improvement stores). This is cheap and fast way to construct your own planes if you feel like you can build from plans.

He also has the plane you describe - called the FROG. High-wing, pusher motor, gentle flier. There is LONG thread on building, flying and modifying this design at http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...threadid=26345 and many people really like the design. Best of all the materials are very cheap.

You can also build the frog lighter and more resiliant if you subtsitute Depron for the BluCor (available from Carl at DepronUSA.com ). This material is more expensive than fan-fold, but it is also lighter and more crash resistant.

While you are at Hippo's site, check out Glenn's designs on page 6 of the 'photo gallery'. These plans are free, and Glen has some unusual and very flyable planes listed. The 'Parkflier "Pete"' is very cool and flies great. I built a 16" WS half-size version for micro R/C gear, and it is one of my best flying micros...

For radio gear, I favor Hitec (partly because that's what I started out with, and also because of the low price and high quality). The $150 price range is a little bit of a problem if you want to get gear that will last you for a long time. The radio will caost you that much. You can find used gear that is no longer state of the art in the 'For Sale' forums on this and other boards. If you go for used radios, the Hitec 'Laser' series is great - programmable yet pretty simple to operate. Also, their gear is compatible with most radio receivers and servos.

For getting started, you will need a plane (a huge bundle of Fan-fold costs $30 to $40 but builds a ton of planes), radio, servos, motor, speed control and batteries plus a charger.

You can buy receivers for $20 and up, new light-weight servos for $18 and up, motors with propellors for $18, speed controllers for $15 to $30 (depends on the motor's requirements and batteries you choose).

Batteries cost more than most of the other components. If you haven't got any gear, you might want to investigate Lithium Polymer (LiPoly) batteries. These are new, but the price is dropping rapidly. They require dedicated LiPoly chargers (which cost about the same as conventional NiCad chargers), and the batteries aren't cheap (about the same as NiCads), but they pack 9 times the power for the same amount of weight as NiCads do. You can have a lighter, better flying airplane that flies for 1/2 and hour or more than a Nicad powered plane that flies for 4 to 6 minutes.

I know this is a lot of infomation to absorb, but this is a big area to cover. Feel free to come back and ask detailed questions. Everyone is willing to add their own opinions...

BTW, I like small stuff. The 'Big' plane is 17" WS...

sierra gold

If your max budget right now is $150 and you want to purchase now... you are pretty much limited to T-Hawk/AeroBird type aircraft. Lot's of folks learn on them. I dislike the fact that the radio gear is not easily used in other planes.

GWS planes run $35-$55 with motor. There are also a number of other parkflyer balsa kits in the same price range. A Hitec 3 channel radio with micro 555 reciever and two HS81 servos runs $110. Batteries, ESC, and a charger will run the total up to $250.

Maybe you should save a bit more.

There is also the thinking that one should buy a radio one can "grow with"... a 4-5 channel computer radio. That adds about $75 to the radio cost. My first radio was a 3 channel and I still use it, along with my second radio.

Sierra Gold
AMA 12351

jwaterb

Thanks for the link, This looks like the kind of thing I'm looking for for a plane; and all the tips about it are very useful. I like the idea of building my own, that would be a fun project, and probably the cheaper way to go.

This seems to be the consensis, this is the one I have been looking at so far.
This looks really good, where have you seen this price?
This is very reassuring, then I could use the 3 channell above for a while? I might be able to take the purchasing in parts, just kind of dissapointing having a radio in your hands and just stare at it

Thank you both for the price lists. Any favorite internet sites you get them from?

I might be able to do my budget if I'm not worried so much about battery life and plane (motor and all)

For say, a 3 channel: with rudder/elevator/throttle control, how many servos do I need, and is this the setup for the FROG?

what about speed control, which one would I need for this setup?

Thanks.

Mike Taylor

My Feedback: (1)

A 3 channel rig needs two servos, and this will work for the frog. The third channel is your throttle.

The ESC (Engine Speed Control) runs the motor and manages sharing the power for the motor with the receiver. What sized ESC you get is determined by the power plant you get for it. The documentation with the motor usually specifies the size it needs... Wattage makes good low-cost ones, as do a bunch of other manufacturers. CAstle Creations make very nice ones, but they are slightly more bucks...

One other thought, if you anticipate getting fancy, a 4 channel is a better idea since you can add ailerons to most park fliers. The cost difference between a 3 and 4 channel is not very much. If you have a 4 (or more) channel radio but only a couple of servos, you just ignore the other channel(s)...

Scar

My Feedback: (3)

I'm looking at your original post and focusing on the above.

Here's a sure thing : Buy a flight simulator for your computer. The less expensive ones are quite adequate. You can learn about many planes that we fly. If you crash, you simply press "reset", or wait for the automatic restart.

If ask at a retailer, you might spend your money and ultimately find yourself unsatisfied. If you ask at a club, you might find used equipment that will be adequate, and we would hope it would last a long time.

The flight sim is sure to be valuable, for a good long time, even after you spend hundreds on a plane.

Good luck,
Dave Olson

jwaterb

Like what kind of price difference?

about the ESC, what if the reciever is say 6 volts and the servos are 7 or something, does it handle all that, don't really know much about it.
Thanks.

Mike Taylor

My Feedback: (1)

Price for the TX depends on a lot of factors, like new or used, brand, features and so forth. Check around the 'For Sale' forum and you'll get a good idea of what's out there... I just bought a nice used Hitec Prism 7 for $70; it needed a new battery, but it is a very nice transmitter. If there is a local R/C club, they may be a good resource, too.

One of the function of the ESC is to provide 5 volts to the RX (the normal voltage), no matter how many cells you run. You need one that handles the amperage your selected motor will use. I know that is not a very definative answer, but that is the case...

Most ESCs provide a 'BEC' (Battery Engine Cut-off) functions as well. This function shuts off the motor when you run the batteries down and makes sure you have power to the controls to land safely - that's a good thing... When the motor cuts out, you throttle off, and there is a little bit of run time left to get you back to the runway.

jwaterb

by the looks of some of the for sale items in the for sale section, this might be a good deal:
http://www.foamfly.com/customer/home.php?cat=256
Is that so?
Are there any disadvantages to this one, I'm just trying to learn by example.

Also, by the sound of it, the ESC hooks up directly to the reciever???
are they always compatible, maybe a part hookup outline might help on this one.

Thank you for all your help so far, you (all) been amazingly helpful. The R/C community looks pretty close (unlike the Linux community where they seem to think they know it all and don't want to share knowledge )

jwaterb

I also forgot to ask one other thing,
I've seen talk about a crystal. Is a crystal required, or when is it required?

Mike Taylor

My Feedback: (1)

I don't have any experience with the GWS products, except for a couple of motors. Maybe a GWS user will chime in here??? The price is right on, though. You might want to post this question in the 'Radios' forum (http://www.rcuniverse.com/forumdispl...?s=&forumid=27)

Yes, the ESC has three cables. One goes to the motor, one goes to the battery, and the third goes to the RX (usually channel 3). It feed the power from the battery to both the RX and the motor. They are usually marked which lead goes where, but the connectors only fit one way, so it is pretty easy to figure out. The RX will also be marked to show which way the plug attaches...

The crystal goes into the receiver. You buy the RX, and then get a crystal to match the channel your transmitter is on. They cost about $5 to $10, and are either single or dual conversion (just like the RX).

jwaterb

so let me get this strait, the ESC connects to the Reciever and the motor, are the servos connected as well?

so, you said it was GWS, but would it be compatible with a hitec reciever (what about jp, is that a company also?)

Mike Taylor

My Feedback: (1)

OK. The ESC connects to the battery, the motor and the receiver. The battery powers the ESC, and it powers the receiver. The receiver tells it how much power the motor gets. All this happens through one receiver jack. The servos attach to to the other jacks on the receiver which powers them and tells them what to do.

GWS radio should be compatible with Hitec gear. JR gear is not (normally) compatible with Hitec since it uses the opposite shift (the 'shift' is whether a control pulse is a positive or negative voltage). *Some* transmitters allow you to select from positive or negative shifts so you can configure the TX (sometimes) to the Receiver. That's why when you buy a receiver you can select from 'Futaba/Hitec' or 'JR' configurations...

George NE Vt

Buy the THawk minus the rc system and purchase a good futaba or Hitec. The servos which come with the THawk are hitec compatible. Your wont be disappointed.

sierra gold

If you go to Mountain Models Web site:

http://www.mountainmodels.com/

Click on the Tips & Hints link and you can scroll down to a wiring diagram for the motor/ESC/reciever that should help.

Doug at MM provides some real nice kits (click on Airplanes link) and great service.

Sierra Gold
AMA 12351

jwaterb

So what I understand here is that Fubata/Hitec/GWS are all compatible with each other, however there's a few companies out of the loop like JR and whatever comes with the T Hawk.

From your description, I drew this diagram, is this pretty much it then?


Thank you for your patience.

Mike Taylor

My Feedback: (1)

Yep, that's pretty much it.

The easiest way to get started is to pick a kit or ARF that comes with a decent motor. The package will list suggested batteries and speed controller for the motor.

I like Wattage products (partly because that is what the LHS, Hobby People, carries). The Wattage Mini Max or Tubby Cubbie are decent started airplanes - $20 on sale, $35 regular price.

I never had a GWS plane, but the SlowStick and Tiger Moth are the choices the GWS fans will suggest - $40 to $60 or so. These all come with the airplane, some accessories and the motor. Each kit lists the battery and ESC you need to get flying.

With any of these you will also need to purchase the battery, ESC, radio (with a crystal for your TX frequency), 2 servos, charger, some glue, etc.

The other hot tip is to get a simulator to practice with before you hit the field (pun intended). FMS is free (http://n.ethz.ch/student/mmoeller/fms/main_e.html) and there are others that cost. This can be a big help since there is no 'reset' button on a kit...

jwaterb

Thank you for all your help, I think this thread will be a good resource for future newbies in my situation.

ttmr

Try this:
TX GWS dream starter 4ch $40
GWS electronics package
(batter, rx, esc 2 servos) $90
cheap carger $15
GWS 3ch airplane
(tigermoth, beaver, J3, stick) $40

drksyd

Check eBay under GWS and see if there are any Slow Stick combos available. You should be able to get one at your target budget. As always, check the sellers rating and feedback before bidding.

PHIL I.

It comes the closest. I have seen adds listing them for $149.00. Some + shipping, others not.
They have a Hitec 3 channel with 555 rx and 55 type servo's and all can be taken out and reused in other planes!There are others in this price range but the Skyscooter 2 has a mode 2 tx, single stick with slide for motor, where others that have a 3 channel have a mode 1 with on/off motor switch as the 3rd channel!
Good luck and have fun!!!!
PHIL I.

aeajr

My Feedback: (2)

How about a personal review of the Aerobird from a new RCer, me. With three channels you can do a lot more than a two channel plane, so I went with the Aerobird. I also like the sky scooter pro, but I think it might be a little harder to fly.

I was not interested in building. If I spent a month building and then
wrecked it, I would be crushed. I wanted a RTF that could take some
punishment.

I am a first timer. However I am also one of these guys that goes into intense
research when I get interested in something. After several months of research,
talking to people, flyers and non, I bought an Aerobird. It is a super value
but there are other good starters. Here are the plusses and minuses in my mind
of the Aerobird.

Very inexpensive and rugged for a three channel starter - $140 on the interent or $170 in LHS.

The plane comes complete and fully assembled. Charge the flight battery, put
on the wing, put the batteries in the transmitter and up you go! Even the
batteries for the transmitter are included.

New flyers like me are going to crash, so you don't want something costly to
start with. There is a full line of parts available at reasonable cost. You
can replace the whole main fuselage for $49 including the motor and all the
flight electronics. A wing is $15 and the tail is $9. So, if you crash badly
you can get everything for under $75 and you are back in the with a three
channel plane.

Batteries and charger:

The battery will run for a full 5-6 minutes at full throttle and 10-15
minutes+
at half throttle. Many planes in this class run 4-6
minutes. And unlike many of the 2 channel starters, it comes with a peak
charger that you can use in your car. If you pick up two spare batteries you
can stay in the air all day. A full charge takes about 40 minutes.

Another plane I liked was the Sky Scooter Pro, now the Pro II. You can get it
as a base plane and motor and add your own electronics or get it ready to fly
with a 72 MHZ Hittec 3 channel radio for about $150. This was my second
choice to the Aerobird. I like it a lot!

The Aerobird also has an X-Pak hop up kit available for $30. It includes a 7
cell battery (the basic is 6) and a larger tail. This makes the plane faster
and more maneuverable. So, once you get good you can soup it up! I bought the
X-Pak when I bought mine. I will use the 7 cell as my second battery and save
the tail for later.

WIND

All new flyers should start in winds under 5 MPH so that you are learning to
fly the plane rather than fighting the wind. I didn't do that and crashed a
lot because of the wind. However, now I am very comfortable flying this plane
in 10-12 MPH winds. Handles it very well.

27 MHZ vs 72 MHZ Radio

The Aerobird uses a 27 MHZ radio which is assigned to general use for planes,
cars and boats; mostly low end stuff. There are only 6 available channels. So,
if you have a kid with a RC car in the same area where you are flying, and he
is on the same channel you are on, and he is close enough, when he switches on
his transmitter, you will lose control of the plane and probably crash. Even
with 72 MHZ radio systems, this will happen if you get two flyers on the same
channel, but 72 MHZ is dedicated to airplanes. High end RC cars are on 75 MHZ
so they won't interfere.

The flight control is a single stick radio with rudder and elevator on the
stick. Throttle is on a slide on the left top. It is similar to a Futaba or
Hitec single stick arrangement. I find it very comfortable to use and other
flyers who have tried it say they find it easy as well.

If you are going to join a club, check with them. Some clubs will not admit 27
MHZ based planes because they can't be flown with a buddy box, a training
system, like a dual controlled car, that is used for pilot training. After
long consideration I bought the Aerobird, but these are things I took into
consideration. My club, www.lisf.org has many firebird pilots, so the
Aerobird was welcome The Sky Scooter Pro, mentioned above, is on the 72 MHZ
band set-up so you don't have any of these considerations.

Resources Aerobird, Sky Scooter Pro

Here is an internet site that sells the Aerobird. They also have a
link for a video of the plane flying:
http://www.parkflyers.com/html/aerobird.html

As I said, my alternative plane was the Sky Scooter Pro. It had been about
$260 RTF, but they recently released the Sky Scooter Pro 2 at about $160 so
you might want to give it serious consideration.
http://www.hitecrcd.com/Funtec/Pro2.htm

Videos
http://www.hitecrcd.com/Funtec/videos.htm

So, that's my evaluation of the Aerobird and why I purchased it. I fly as
often as I can. I have about 40 flights on my plane since the end of March.
I am fully self taught. At this point I am just loving it. My friend has a
Wingo and liked flying my Aerobird so much he bought one too.

Woody 51

Mike,

Could you explain the positive/ negative shifting principle in more "laymens terms?"

I couldn't quite get the picture on your explanation.

I use JR and Hitec Rx's and servo's from all 3 manufacturers you mention and my Tx is a Futaba 8UAP. ( Until now, I have never used the Futaba PCM Rx that came with the Tx, but that will be going into a model currently under construction.)

Futaba lead plugs have to have a small "ridge" or lip shaved off them to fit Hitec and JR Rx's, but work provided the relevant servo is plugged into the correct channel position on the Rx.

sierra gold

Hi Woody 51,

Just noticed your question on my last post. (page #1)

One place you can get the Hitec radio is:

http://www2.omnimodels.com/cgi-bin/w...I=HRCJ66**&P=O

They have the Focus at $105, and the Neon w/ the new Electron micro rcvr. for $110. There is no shipping fee on orders over $100. Nice folks to deal with.

My "layman's" understanding on the effect of Shift is that the standard Hitec receiver will also "talk with" Futaba transmitters. You must buy a different "shift" Hitec receiver to talk with JR and Airtronics transmitters.